extend power interval to raise windows

Hello folks,

Car in question is a 1990 Vauxhall Cavalier. This car is fitted with total closure by the key in the drivers door but to raise the windows needs you to hold the key against a micro switch to raise the windows. Then continue to turn to activate the deadlocks.

I have an aftermarket remote central door locking kit that I want to fit. The car already has Vauxhall's alarm so I should be able to use the exisiting connections for the actual wiring.

I would like to close the windows upon locking, unfortunatley I'm signed off sick & don't have the funds to buy a window module (which would probably be the quickest fix) however I do have a couple of relay's about the place and can get hold of things like capacitors & diodes for penny's.

I was thinking of using a capacitor to hold a bit of charge before the relay to allow the windows time to roll up with the lock function. The slowest window takes 5-7 seconds depending on the weather.

I think I have a 33uf capacitor but don't know how long this would power the circuit for.

Sorry for the long post but I hope I have given the info required
Your help in the task would be greatly appreciated.


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The Original Muppet

The proper way to do this is to use a window module. It will save you money in the long run. If you use relays you will run the risk of decreasing the life of your power window circuits. The window modules are designed to sense current draw and shut themselves off if the windows are already closed when you arm the system. Applying power to the windows for 5-7 seconds with them shut will overload the circuits and cause them damage over time. The other factor is for safety. If the windows try and close with someone obstructing them, they will safely shut off. Relays won't. You would need very large caps to keep relays powered up for 5-7 seconds anyway. It is better to do the job right or not do it all.

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sparky

Well I thought they might be the better option, looks like I'll install the system then retro fit a module when I can find one that's suitable enough. Any recommendations on stand alone window lift units?

Thanks for the advice Sparkie

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The Original Muppet

I'd actually prefer to do it your way---just activate the factory feature, insteady of adding more aftermarket stuff than necessary.

Over here in the US, I'm not familiar with your car. What kind of remote kit are you installing?

And does the car already have electric doorlocks, and you're just installing the remote kit to control the exisiting power locks, correct?

A few questions:

1. The microswitch that gets triggered by turning the key in the door.....have you found/tested the wire yet? Is it a negative or a positive?

2. The system you're installing, does it have any extra auxillary outputs, with extra buttons on the remote control?

For example, it might have a trunk (boot) release output, which maybe you won't be using on your car.

So, if your unit does have any extra auxillary outputs, please tell how many extra outputs it has, and if there are any programming options you have available........does the auxillary channel just put out a 1-second pulse, or can you select a longer time period?

on your Cavalier,remove glovebox, look at the loom going into the passenger side (left we're in the UK) front door. BROWN / red  = lock neg, BROWN / white = unlock neg and BROWN / black neg is the total close wire. What brand of keyless entry? Some such as Cobra can be programmed for total close or hold the lock button.

Hi Chris & Howie, thanks for your replies.

As Howie said all the connections are there for me to modify behind the glovebox. There doesn't appear to be any programming options for the unit I'm installing however there is an aux output, primarily for Trunk release I believe. Both +ve & -ve available. Unfortunately it looks like this is only a pulsed output. No sure what I need to do to extend this interval.

Regards
Pete


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The Original Muppet

Clifford (DEI) do a pulsed timer I think it's a 908d, attach the trigger to your lock wire and join the output to the close wire, retail about £20, or if you are capable Maplin do a kit for £4.99 but you would have to build and modify the circuit to make it happen. Both have a variable timed output. Measure the time it takes to close your windows using the key then add 2 seconds.

Thanks for that Howie. The Maplins option sounds interesting & as I've got quite a bit of time on my hands should be fun. Could you give me the item number for the kit & I'll ring my local Maplins to see if they have it in stock.

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The Original Muppet

Sorry I'm a total Muppet....

Is this the sort of kit you are talking about?
MK111 Adjustable Timer with Relay Output

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The Original Muppet

Yes BUT use the 1meg pause trimpot in the pulse position, don't use the pulse 47k trimpot, take lock wire from your keyless unit and split it to BROWN / red in car and CIRCUIT BOARD of MK111 where chip outputs 2 and 6 meet vacant pulse solder points. join common to  earth (ground) and NO to BROWN / black close wire. Set trimpot to near minimum (anti- clockwise) The onboard LED will tell you how long the relay is activated. 2 things to watch, it will fire up when you initially test it, ignore this and give it a 3-5 amp fuse on the pos input. These things are wonderful jacks of all trades! I've used them as h/light controllers, turning an electric washer into a wash wipe, a wiper delay (using both pots) even using 2 to replace the control unit in Bosch or Hirschmann auto aerials! Where do you live, my local shop (Colindale, London NW) is open now. NB When the police cars flash each headlight alternatively, it's a similar unit.

Howie.... you never cease to amaze me.

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If I had half your knowledge Howie I'd die a happy man LOL

I'm in Lincoln, checked the on-line stock control and they're out.
I'll give them a ring and see when they are getting some in.

Turns out the remote control unit doesn't use a pulse but a constant 0 or 12. It's one of those kits that supplies the door lock motors. 5 wires to the front two and 2 wires to the rear.

Damn it, next time I should ask a barrage of questions.

Thanks for all your help.

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The Original Muppet

Listen this is not the answer that KPierson might give but if you blow up enough things, you will get it right sooner or later! NB Kar Tune for me the internet as you well know ran out of space last December!

I too heard about the internet running out of space in December, but then I heard that it got a floppy server (A bank of like 20 floppy drives) for Christmas.  So I think it is set for another year or so.

I'm sure you can get kits with multiple outputs the Cobra unit gives you that, you hold the lock button for close, that's called a switched aux output. Others will give you timed outputs and that's what you want.

Petebob,

Wow, sure looks like howie knows what he's talking about over there! I just wanted to add one thing.

If you split your aftermarket system's lock output, as howie says......connect it to the lock wire in the car, AND the timer module......the windows will close every time you lock the car, with nothing else to thing about.

If, instead, you want the option to sometimes leave the windows open, and you just want to close them sometimes, you could instead use your system's trunk-release output to trigger the timer module. That way, the windows would only close when you intentionally press the trunk button on your new remote.

Neither way would be wrong, it's just a matter of what you think would work better for you.

howie,

Great post! I've been wanting to find some small projects to gain some skills working with circuit boards and small soldering.

My father, who used to sell home audio (back when they had one speaker, before stereo!) tells me of the Heathkit amplifiers and tuners people could buy and build on their own.......but there's not much around like that anymore.

I found the Mk111 timer for sale online, and I'll keep it in my favorite places list, and see if I can find a use for one in the future.

UK (Maplin) site:
https://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=25224&DOY=26m2

Here's a Canadian site, that also sells in US dollars, and ships to the US:
https://store.qkits.com/moreinfo.cfm/MK111