remote start and immobilizer interface

I will try to be as descriptive as possible:    Vehicle   2003 Isuzu Axiom   (Transponder type immobilizer)

Product:   Ready Remote "Remote Start Model 24921   and 556U immobilizer Interface.

I first installed the "Remote Start"  along with the tach wire and hood latch switch.   So far so good.   Went through the program steps and things were looking good.   Also programed the tack wire when I had it running on one of my attempts  When I hit the start the accessories would come on and hear some clicking and instrument panel would light up and go off.    I noticed a car symbol with key in it flash.    First clue.    I would stick the key in the switch and leave off and presto it would start everytime.    

After further research I decided I needed a 556U immobilizer bypass.   I went to a local store and they agreed.    They said they could not flash program it for that model.    I said ok and left.  I only have two keys.   Got this used and never received a valet key.    I plan on getting one or two made since one will be used in the box and I will have a spare one.   Easy enough to get one of those made that I can put in the box.   I decided to use one of my current two till I got everything hooked up and tested.     So I hooked in the hot and the ground from the harness.   I also connected the blue status output from the 24921 remote start to the blue wire on the immobilizer  by pass.   I  put the ring around the switch and connected each connector.    I opened the box to put my key in and saw a issue right away.    My manuf key will not fit in the sensing box.     So i partially stuck it under thinking that it should recognize it for a temp test.    Exact same issue as before I.    Car symbol flashes and it goes through several retries but never kicks in the starter.

Any advice would really be appreciated.    Everything works just fine if I put the key in the switch.

Thanks, Mie

Thanks Mike M2,

I did not tighten the ring down at all and I will change it to be out to the front as far as possible and as tight as possible tomorrow.    The problem with the key head is that it has a 1/4 raised hump down the center of it which will not let the head go in the rectangular sensing coil in the box.   I don't think there is anything I can cut or modify to allow it in.   I get about 1/4 inch of the top of the key head in it.    I am hoping if I get the valet key made it will fit but I am not sure it will work.

I tried sticking the key in as far as possible but it does not sense it or I don't have the loop tight enough or out to the front.

I will try that tomorrow night and let you know.   Hopefully the guy can make a valet key tomorrow and I can take that out of the equation.   I am so close but 1.5 days is frustrating and I have been scratching my head a lot.....   LOL 

Thanks for the advice.   I will give another shot tomorrow.

Thanks, Mike

ckeeler, Chris and Mike,

Thanks for the advice, I will get back to working on it when I get home this evening.   I will take the transponder out of the key or at least the battery cover off and slide it in.   Not sure I could even force it in if I wanted and with my luck on this one I wold end up with board and  peices all over.   Again long term I will have a valet key that will work once I figure out the system will work.

I will let you know my progress tomorrow.   I will also tighten up the ring around the switch.

Thanks again for the advice, Mike  

Ok Guys,

Got to swing by the house between jobs.   I took the back off the key and got the key in the sensing loop.   It was still a very tight fit.   Which I guess is good.  

Second I tightened up the loop around the switch.   I took the tape off and saw two very tiny wires hooked and realized it wasn't adjustable.  So I taped it back up and taped a little slack on one side together.

I also tested that I have hot coming in on Red, black to ground, and blue to blue on my remote start.   I have both junctions hooked in box...    I have not been putting the cover on the bypass while testing but I don't see where that could make a difference.

Just like I don't have the remote bypass on.    Hear clicking and car symbol with key flashes for the three cycles that it tries.   I stick a key in the switch and it starts right up.   

UGH!!   Thanks for all of the suggestions.   Anymore advice would be helpful.

Mike

howie ll wrote:

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I was going to be facetious but Mr. Keeler got there first. Let me give you Howard's rule of thumb but please bear in mind that in the UK the alarm part is usually a Cat 1 type which means we are immobilising two circuits anyway therefore the transponder is not needed. The only vehicles (to my experience) which  require a 556 type by-pass (not talking about the latest CAN equipped units) are VW-Audi group and BMW because the factory antenna is low powered. On ALL others especially Japanese and Korean, I remove that chip and after testing, including waiting 5 mins for the transponder to turn off, I glue it to the antenna ring in the position that gives the best response. Second method if this doesn't work would be to remove the ring and bury a key in it. Don't forget this "switches off" the transponder. Also with Fords and Mazda you would have to remove the chips from BOTH keys. The advantage is with replacement keys you would only need the key, not the whole thing with chip thus only a few bucks. Last point, be very careful when removing the chip, they tend to be VERY fragile.

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I did a Mazda Miata that i had to do this to and I broke the chip. It was quite brittle. Luckily because I had to remove the other chip as well from the other key i was okay. I just used the second chip. And I was much more careful.

You guys are great but you got to stop using words like facetious or any other words this country hick doesn't understand.   I will start getting a complex.   (lol)    I would hate to dust of the old dictionary, that would take all of the fun out of it.

Ok,  Let me try to make sure I understand what you are telling me before I start this one.  

First thing I got was take off the bypass module (not needed).    Second thing was to remove the chip from the key, being very very careful.   Something to have the wife to do incase it breaks I have someone to blame.  

Next is to place the chip on or very near the factory transponder ring.   If that is the case shouldn't I be able to hold the key very close to test it out.   It seems to be a little more complex than that.   I thought maybe it had to recognize the key was in the switch and the chip was verified.

Sorry to be a pain but I really do appreciate the advice.   I keep thinking I am so close.

Thanks, Mike

Follow up

If I do take the chip out of my factory keys, will the lock, unlock and panic still work on those keys or is it integrated in with the chip.   If that doesn't work the wife will not be happy and you know what that means.

Mike

calhounmike wrote:

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Something to have the wife to do incase it breaks I have someone to blame.  

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good one!

calhounmike wrote:

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I thought maybe it had to recognize the key was in the switch and the chip was verified.

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if that was the case how would it recognise the key in the cylinder with your key in the box type bypass? right?

Update:

Just got back in from playing.   Latest test.   Took the guts out of my key, which contains my battery, chip, lock, unlock buttons, and held it up to factory transformer ring.   Nothing!!

Next put the tip of my other key in the cyl and it recognized it and started right up.

Put a tiny screwdriver in the key slot and held the gut from my one key that was taken a part close to it and presto it started right up.   So it has to recognize a key in the switch along with the chip or a tiny screwdriver in the switch along with the chip.

I will try anything.

Thanks, Mike

Jar754,

That is how i orginally had it set up.   I am now begining to think that it check for a chip along with a key or something being in the switch based on my latest test.   

I think if i put the key in the module, the ring around the factory switch and a tiny screwdrive in the switch it would start right up.

Ok,

I stand corrected.   Maybe the screwdriver in the switch wasn't magic.    I guess I have to wait for 5 minutes for the tfactory ransponder to reset or something.   Sorry, I tried the screwdriver in the switch with the guts close and no start.

I tried the guts in the bypass transponder and the bypass antenna around the the switch again.   No luck.

As soon as i stick the tip of the key in the switch like 1/4 inch it starts right up.   So it recognizes that chip like 2 inches away.   The gut close should work just fine unless it is putting a small voltage down the key or something which i really doubt.

I will keep trying things but this maybe one of those things that just doesn't happen......

Thanks

I have the blue on the bypass hooked to the blue on the remote starter control.

The bypass instructions says to hook blue to remote start negative(-) status output.

Remote start controller says the blue is (-) 200mA Status Output and if using bypass hook it to blue.   

My guess is that I have programmable keys.   They have chips in them and control the locks and panic alarm.   The key switch factory transponder sensor.   But when I take it off the key switch and hold my key in the center of it the car still won't start with the remote start.   Only when I have it around the key switch and the key in the switch.   Not totally sure it is a programmable key.   I know the mirror is programmable  for garage door, etc...

I don't think I am going to figure this one out.   Nothing makes sense.   Only one thing that I need to figure out is keysense.   I don't have it hooked to anything.   It seems so close, starts with the key in the switch but key out and ring off with key in it, nothing works.

Thanks for your time, Mike

No I haven't.    I was not sure what it did or if I needed to do it or not.    

Can you explain to me what the keysense wire is for?  I think I can find the wire in the ignition harness pretty easy to hook it up but never could find a good explanation of when you needed it or not.  

Mike

jar754,

Thanks for trying to keep me calm.   This is the point when I normally ripping and tearing and tossing things out the door followed by some serious stomping on the pavement with parts flying.

I have tried what you suggested put the key in the bypass that works in the ignition with the by pass ring positioned many ways around the switch.   I have a hot comming into the bypass, which i have checked and getting 12 v.    I have a ground  and I blue on bypass hooked to blue on remote start.

Can you tell me what Keysense is?     I don't know when I need to hook it up or not.    When I look at my wiring diag it shows in the ignition harness: 

Thanks, Mike

the keysense wire is the wire thats shows ground or sometimes 12v when the key is inserted into the lock cylinder. if you put 12v on that wire at the same time the bypass is triggered, the vehicle will think that the key is inserted into the lock cylinder. it should also see the transponder chip.

Ckeeler,

I think we may be on to something.  

Ok, on my remote start, I don't think it has anything that needs to be connected to keysense.  Make no mention of it.

On the bypass it has two wires:   violet (+) keysense input connect this wire to the vehicles's positive keysense output wire and green (-) keysense input: connect this wire to the viehilce's negative keysense output wire.    I am guessing I only need to hook up one of these just not sure which one.

One of the above two wires would hook to following wire on my vehicle:  (by having + there, I would guess it will need to be the violet wire.

Thanks, Mike

Thanks Guys,

I will try that at lunch and let you know.   Keep your fingers crossed.   

Thanks, Mike

Ok guys,

Here is what I found so far.   I have two pink/purple wires with ignition wires in a block.    One had ~12 v on it and the other ~0.    This will not let the doors lock, etc when energized using the remote an controls the bell if driver door is open. 

I stuck the key in and both had approximately 12v.   Bell dings, etc....    I jumped those two wires with key out and tried the starter and the same thing Car light with flashing key in middle.      During the start up sequence I also tried to test the wires in the bypass box.   I expected it to send 12 v on the violet key sense wie but it did not.   Violet +    I then tested the green in the bypass box it had like 11.57 v and when the sequence started it droped to 10.XX.

Maybe I don't have a key sense but it sure acts like it again, stick tip of key in and it starts right up.   

I did look where the factory transponer wire goes and it is in a dephi box.   Two wires go to it and then a block of wires come out of it.

Thanks,  MIke

Follow up:

More info.   When I say I stick the tip of the key in.   I don't even stick it in far enough to trigger the bell or close the circuit on pink/blue to get the bell sound and vehicle starts right up.   

So with that said I don't think it has anything to do with those pink/purple wires.    They the one after the switch is not energized and it will still start with the tip of key put in.

Mike

jar754,

Yes, I have the ring around switch, key in bypass.

Not that I haven't made a couple of goof ups and went back and rechecked things a couple of times.

Yes, that remote start has a jumper and I have tried it in both positions.

Thanks, Mike

Guys,

I wold like to thank everyone for their help.   I finally call uncle and yanked it all out. 

Licked my wounds and will move on.    Four days of having my vehicle tore apart was more than I could handle.  Really was no closer 4 days later than how it worked an hour after the remote start was installed.  

I will accept defeat and the humiliation that goes with it.

Thanks again for all of your help and advice it is really appreciated.   Sorry we could not count this one as a success.

Mike

Joch1314,

Maybe this will help someone else.   Some other stuff that I found out.    With the key apart in front of the switch nothing.     With the key together in front of the switch presto.    What I found is two dimple in the key housing, that  doesn't come out with the guts, on the other side push two silver contacts.    If the gut are not in the key housing it does not work even with the factory transponder ring.    So taking my key apart to put in the 556u bypass was killing me.

Second I worked with DEI and they said oh you may have a bad bypass take it back and get another one.    I took it to the electronics place, name not to be mentioned, that I bought it and the guy said BS you must be doing it wrong I have put 1000's of these on and never had a bad one and basically I am not swaping for another one.    Plus it is electronic and if it is bad you messed it up.   Mental note will not purchase anything there again.    Paid a premium when I got it versus ordering one and waiting.     He could be right I guess I can't prove  him wrong or he can't prove me wrong.

Once I figured out the key had to be together, I could hold it up to the factory transponder and it would work..   If the guts were taken out of the housing it would not work though.    Plus the key will only allow a edge to go in the 556u because of the size of the fob on it is so big.    But in far enough it should pick it up.   I have tried I am sure 50 combinations with the factory rep, advice from here and scolding from installer where I bought the part.

I do appreciate everyones advice.   I could have a bad bypass module but can't really prove that without a new one.    I would say I am out of $150 and that is enough to sink in to a nice to have for the wife of a morning.    Throwing good money at bad hurts in the end.

Anything else that you may remember would be great to know just for knowledge purpose.    Everyone said just hook up the blue from bypass to blue one remote.     Red to hot and black to ground.   This guy today at the electronics store said the pink had to also be connected to igniton.    That did not help either.   Factory guy told me I needed a couple of relays because I have two accessory wire but the electronics guy said that is BS and since I only had one ignition wire to us the pink/white from remote start to the other accessory instead of doing that.      Plus the guy at factory said I need a rely to energize the keysense from switch and the electronics store guy said that was crap..   Have to agree with him on that one because the key held up to factory transponder works just fine with out the keysense energized.   When I jumpered as a test it didn't help.

Thanks, Mike

Guys,

On thing I want ot try it to get a valet key made, which I needed one anyway.     If they are not too expensive I will get one and cut the shaft off the key.    I will see if I can secure that up to the factory ring and get it to fit in the console and have it sense that key.    Kind of like the suggestions of taking the chip out.   Something in these factory normal keys will not allow that.    It think a valet key will have a smaller head, etc..

On the web I am finding a hard place to order a 2003 isuzu axiom one from.    Can find places that will sell 2005 and newer and 2002 and older.    2003 and 2004 models must have done some really goofy stuff around this the security and ignition stuff.

I will try to find someone locally but that normally means they cost a lot more.    And may not be able to afford the extra one to play around with the chip.

If someone can tell me why 2003 and 2004 isuzu axiom is so much different.   It has a delphi transponder which I would have thought it would have been like lots of GM models.

Mike

Yes I did see the specs on that I may play with those if I get the time to run and pick up a relay and some very thin wire.    That would be fun just to play with it I get some time over the holidays.

Mike