Printer Friendly Forum Posts - 530t module, 02 focus

I want to wiring in a 530T module to control both my front windows up and down...here is the thing...I don't care, nor do I want the passenger side window switch to have one-touch express up or down. I want to have the one-touch function (for both widows) to be ONLY available at the drivers master switch...

With this type of arrangement, there should be no need to go into the passenger side door, correct? I should be able to interface the 530T between drivers side passenger window switch and the motor outputs (from the switch) to the passenger window, correct?

The only reason someone would want to go into the passenger door, is to hook up the module to the passenger switch so THAT switch would have express up/down.

But if it's wired like that, would the drivers master switch for the passenger window have express function? I don't think it would, would it??

Thanks!

Can't be done. The 530 connects directly at the passenger motor wires which means that the driver door switch and the passenger door switch wires are in parallel at that point. So it really cannot differentiate if the signal came from driver door or passenger - all it knows is that is received a signal to the motor wires.

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Prepare your future. It wasn't the lack of stones that killed the stone age.

Big Dog wrote:

Can't be done. The 530 connects directly at the passenger motor wires which means that the driver door switch and the passenger door switch wires are in parallel at that point. So it really cannot differentiate if the signal came from driver door or passenger - all it knows is that is received a signal to the motor wires.

I'm not entirely sure I follow. I've checked the wiring on my car, and the passenger motor is driven directly from the drivers-side passenger switch...and is also likely powered directly from the passenger switch as well.

I should add, that I'm replacing my drivers window switches with 2-position switches, designed for express open/close of the windows...

With this setup, only the second position will activate the 530T module. The normal, first position on the switch will be for normal window operation, so I will NOT be cutting away the factory wiring as the instructions say, to give total window control over to the 530T...

The 530T will just be 'tapped' into the original motor wiring, and only be activated with the second switch position...

And I think, wired this way (while keeping all the original wiring intact) I should be able to drive the passenger window from the motor outputs from the drivers side passenger switch, right?

Again, I don't need/want express up/down from the passenger switch, ONLY from the drivers passenger switch.

wungun wrote:

I will NOT be cutting away the factory wiring as the instructions say, ...
The 530T will just be 'tapped' into the original motor wiring, and only be activated with the second switch position...

Sorry. Won't work. The 530T must absolutely be connected to the motor wires. It needs to see "back emf" or "motor noise" to work. You can't connect between switches and relays nor connect in parallel.

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Prepare your future. It wasn't the lack of stones that killed the stone age.

Okay, so I'll run the wires right up to the motors on both sides...Now, when you say 'parallel', does this mean I HAVE to cut the OEM wires that run to the switches and surrender all control to the 530?

Thanks

Yes and by the way, what car is it. Just a thought, but I think if you go to the driver's side motor and the passenger door leads you will get your desired result but it's relevant to your car and the type of switching used. In my heart I think big dog's right, he usually is.

It's an '02 Focus...

wungun wrote:

It's an '02 Focus...

Have a look at the driver side switch and passenger motor...

Where the 2 X's are is where I figure I can tap-in with the 530

[IMG]https://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m91/WuNgUn/Picture002.jpg[/IMG]

Full-size

https://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m91/WuNgUn/Picture002.jpg

Sorry, I couldn't crop that image smaller...

OK I had an 02 Focus myself once, the driver's window had one shot down so I used a 529 wired to the two "up" motor wires in driver's door because of 1 shot opening on driver's door; why not use a 529, much easier and you can mount the whole unit towards the front of the door where the loom travels vertically...sorry didn't see your photos, I'm going on the UK spec which at the time was mainly identical to the US spec.

howie ll wrote:

OK I had an 02 Focus myself once, the driver's window had one shot down so I used a 529 wired to the two "up" motor wires in driver's door because of 1 shot opening on driver's door; why not use a 529, much easier and you can mount the whole unit towards the front of the door where the loom travels vertically...sorry didn't see your photos, I'm going on the UK spec which at the time was mainly identical to the US spec.

I'm assuming my diagram maybe UK spec as well, as it's a Chilton manual, and there are many things in there that are UK spec...

The reason I'm getting at 530T, is I'm actually replacing the windows switches in the drivers door with Focus Ghia switches, which, in this case, have express up AND down for ALL 4 windows. I plan on removing the 2 rear switches from the PCB, and mounting it in my ZX3 (2 door) switch housing...

The harness plugs are different, so I'll need to do some create fabrication to mount it!

It has to be a 530T, as the switches support both up and down X 2 windows...

Basically, the 530T will be activated ONLY by this second-position switch, on both L/R windows, both up/down, instead of the first position (like non-Ghia Focus would)...

Hope that makes sense!!!

It'll be an awesome mod with the Ghia switches!!

Be very careful, that model uses completely different motors and wiring from the switch, the Ghia switches switch neg down to a processor on each motor, alternatively if I remember you couldn't use either 529 or 530 on that model. there was some trick with a timed output to a relay. You're better off with 2 x 530ts wired to your existing motors. New switches = new motors and new wiring.

howie ll wrote:

Be very careful, that model uses completely different motors and wiring from the switch, the Ghia switches switch neg down to a processor on each motor, alternatively if I remember you couldn't use either 529 or 530 on that model. there was some trick with a timed output to a relay. You're better off with 2 x 530ts wired to your existing motors. New switches = new motors and new wiring.

Yeah, I figured it wouldn't be plug'n'play...I'll have to use the switches as just that, switches...then use a meter to rewire the power inputs and outputs for each switch and direction...

As far as I know, the Ghia already has the express up/down..why would you want a 529/530??

You misread me, keep the existing switches and use 529/539t

howie ll wrote:

You misread me, keep the existing switches and use 529/539t

Oh...lol

Well, the Ghia switches are already on the way I'm afraid...

You wouldn't have access to a Ghia wiring manual, with 4 window, up/down express would ya??

Read and understand what I said before. The switches, cabling AND motors are all different. Please try it for yourself since you obviously know all the answers.

howie ll wrote:

Read and understand what I said before. The switches, cabling AND motors are all different. Please try it for yourself since you obviously know all the answers.

Whoa! Easy guy!!

I read what you said...And I said I'm not plugging it straight into my harness...if it's a switch, then I'm sure it behaves like a switch! And if so, I can make it work...

If I have to, I'll rewire the whole power window system!

No need to freak out!

OK, new switches, new wiring to all 4 doors, 4 new motors and probably a new GEM box (over here, the remote in the key does window close as well) right that's about $2000 plus about 3 day's labour when all you need to give you the same effect would be a pair of 530ts in the centre console wired to the 4 doors.

...or run the Ghia switch into relays to send power to my window motors, since there's some 'magic' going on in the Ghia switch that only Ghia motors understand...

What's so hard about that??

And mines a 2 door, not a 4 door...

Sure put relays in, you'll need to with the Ghia switch, but it still won't give you one touch if I'm right about the Ghia switch wiring configuration, i.e. it only switches ground. If that's the case you'll then need to change the motors because the ghia motors are different or there's a door control module which gives you the one touch. By the time you've got this all sorted out you might begin to realise what older and wiser heads are trying to tell you, after you waste $2000 and three days. Now go for it and stop wasting my time p,.lease with your oh so clever attitude.

howie ll wrote:

Sure put relays in, you'll need to with the Ghia switch, but it still won't give you one touch if I'm right about the Ghia switch wiring configuration,

This is why I'm using the 530T...to do the one-touch...the 530T will be wiring into one-touch contacts on the switch.

howie ll wrote:

i.e. it only switches ground. If that's the case you'll then need to change the motors because the ghia motors are different or there's a door control module which gives you the one touch

OR there's a module?? You don't sound so sure...If I use relays off the switch, it won't matter. The motors will get the power from the relays, not the switch. I have one-touch down on my drivers side already, and it simply uses a load sensing, latch relay wired into the one-touch down contact...

howie ll wrote:

By the time you've got this all sorted out you might begin to realise what older and wiser heads are trying to tell you, after you waste $2000 and three days. Now go for it and stop wasting my time p,.lease with your oh so clever attitude.

I won't be spending $2000 to implement a Focus window control switch...and if it takes 3 days, that's fine...I'm not going to simply install a 530T and have one-touch whenever I touch my window switches! The whole point of this is to custom use factory, 2 position, one-touch up AND down for both windows...not be like "older and wiser heads" that take the path of least resistance and do what everyone else does...

Thanks for your help

Just to let you know, after examining the diagram you sent with the x's marked where you'll cut, I concur with you that it will work that way because the 530T sees motor noise.

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Prepare your future. It wasn't the lack of stones that killed the stone age.

Big Dog wrote:

Just to let you know, after examining the diagram you sent with the x's marked where you'll cut, I concur with you that it will work that way because the 530T sees motor noise.

Thanks Big Dog...that'll certainly ease the installation process!

I've posted about this express up/down car window switch earlier...

Here is what the PCB looks like. Can anyone possibly help explain how the hell this is set up!? lol

posted_image

I'm only interested in the top two switches...

Most, but not all, OEM systems use an encoder mounted in the motor - NOT the switch. The encoder in the motor allows a processor to monitor speed, which can be used to determine if something is in the direction of travel, and thus stop the window from moving.

Other systems use a shunt resistor - an extremely low value resistor wire inline with the (-) (or even (+)) lead to the motor. You can then monitor the voltage drop across the resistor and calculate current consumption of the motor and perform the "anti pinch" function that way.

Either way, an "auto up" window should have an anti pinch system of some sort incorporated. By simply posting pictures of the circuit board its impossible to know how the system works. I would focus more on the entire power window system inside the vehicle.

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Kevin Pierson

KPierson wrote:

Most, but not all, OEM systems use an encoder mounted in the motor - NOT the switch. The encoder in the motor allows a processor to monitor speed, which can be used to determine if something is in the direction of travel, and thus stop the window from moving.
Other systems use a shunt resistor - an extremely low value resistor wire inline with the (-) (or even (+)) lead to the motor. You can then monitor the voltage drop across the resistor and calculate current consumption of the motor and perform the "anti pinch" function that way.
Either way, an "auto up" window should have an anti pinch system of some sort incorporated. By simply posting pictures of the circuit board its impossible to know how the system works. I would focus more on the entire power window system inside the vehicle.

The problem with that is, it's a Euro model car and I don't have schematics...

I'm trying to find a way to incorporate the switch in my North American car...it has one window with express down, and it simply uses a load sensing latch relay.

This uses something entirely different it would seem. If I can just get a output on each switch position contact, I'd wire in relays and power the motors that way...however, it seems more complicated than that...take for instance to top-right swich...see how it looks like it's all wired in series? Whereas the top-left is not? (Scratches head)

Can anyone tell me what these rubber button contact pads are called? I think I might etch my own PCB, but it needs to have these button contacts, or something similar...

posted_image

What does the actual switch look like under the passenger side switch? I'm wondering if there are some NC contacts.

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Kevin Pierson

KPierson wrote:

What does the actual switch look like under the passenger side switch? I'm wondering if there are some NC contacts.

Good question! My North American passenger switch just uses copper contacts to activate...

I got a little further "reverse engineering" this thing...

Discovered which two terminals power the LED's (and I assume, power the switches too)...that leaves , I think 4 pins for the front pair of switches, and 4 for the rear (which won't be used) There is 1 more pin, I assume is for the relay output for locking window control from the other passengers...

Now! With it powred up, I learned that the switch outputs are negative...

But then it gets weird...

I figured, since there are 4 pins for 2 switches, it MUST be polarity switching outputs...1 pin to control up/down and another pin for express up/down...but it's not.

Each pin controls a up or down AND an express up or down...the 4 pins function like so; (colour identified)

ORG pin controls passenger UP and express passenger DOWN...

YEL pin is driver UP and express driver DOWN...

GREY pin is passenger express UP and passenger DOWN

GRN pin is driver express UP and driver DOWN

There HAS to be some determining differential for just plain old up and express up, but with each output controlling 2 seperate functions, I'm not getting it...

Can anyone 'see' some kinda pattern here that I'm missing?

Perhaps it's a combination with the OTHER 4 pins, except they look like they are seperated on the board...

Hi,

I'm looking at the power window wiring diagram of my '02 Focus, and it looks like both motor terminals rest at ground...and the 12V+ switches either/or for window direction.

My question is, if both terminals rest at ground, and the 530T applies 12V+ to one of them, isn't this a short circuit?? The factory switch disconnects ground from one side then applies the 12V+, but with the 530T tapped into the motor leads, will this cause a short?

Thanks