whining sound from starter

Hi there guys

Greetings from New Zealand! :)

New, but long time reader of the12volt.com and all I can say is Wow alot of you guys on here know your stuff! Hopefully I won't cause that much nuisance as I am here purely to learn.

I would just like to know why my car doesn't start after installing a dual immobiliser alarm.
It DOES start, but just makes a continuous whining sound? Perhaps starter motor is not engaging?

The alarm is a Uniden VS2600XR. Car which I have installed it into is a Subaru B4 Legacy 2000.

My car has a factory clutch starter kill, don't know if that will affect the starter in any way?

This is the way I installed it.

12V ---------------------------------------------------------------------|Turbo Timer|-----------------/
ACC ------------------|Ignition sense|----------|Diode|---------|Turbo Timer|-----------------/
IGNITION ------|Immobiliser Cut|      |Immobiliser Cut|-- -|Turbo Timer|-----------------/
STARTER -----|Immobiliser Cut|      |Immobiliser Cut|--------|Clutch Kill switch|------/

At the moment I don't have starter immobiliser wired up, but everytime I start the car up, a relay from the alarm brainseems to go crazy.

I am also unable to start up car until turbo timer is fully "loaded up" if you get what I'm trying to say.

Perhaps I'm missing a diode or two? ...or a brain ?

Any advice, comments, suggestions and criticism would be greatly appreciated!

Cheers.

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'00 Subaru B4 Legacy RSK

Could the whining be the fuel primer system that now works all the time rather than just till the engine is running?  Your only real answer would be to disconnect one item at a time to see what happens.

Sounds like a feedback or trickle to one of the relay coils.

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Prepare your future. It wasn't the lack of stones that killed the stone age.

howie ll wrote:

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Could the whining be the fuel primer system that now works all the time rather than just till the engine is running?  Your only real answer would be to disconnect one item at a time to see what happens.

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Hey mate, I can physically hear the starter motor trying to start. But it is just whining. I have disconnected the starter immobiliser for now, but I still see dash lights when I start my car - no good.

Big Dog wrote:

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Sounds like a feedback or trickle to one of the relay coils.

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I think you're right. What can I do to get rid of feedback? Where would I need to place diodes?

And could this have anything to do with my clutch interlock relay?

Cheers.

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'00 Subaru B4 Legacy RSK

_deagle_ wrote:

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  Hey mate, I can physically hear the starter motor trying to start. But it is just whining. 

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This sounds like the starter motor's bendix isn't mating with the flywheel. Most starter motors have double action starter solenoids within the starter itself - one to engage the starter motor windings and the other to hold the bendix against the flywheel. Oddly enough it sounds like the solenoid is activating the motor but not holding the bendix. Could be the way you cut the wires.

Secondly, relays usually buzz when it's receiving insufficient voltage/current.

I'll check the make/model/year is your car and I'll see if I can give you an idea which are the best wires to cut for both a starter and ignition kill.

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Prepare your future. It wasn't the lack of stones that killed the stone age.

Here's how your security system should be wired in your car.

ITEM     POLARITY     LOCATION

12V+           +               White wire at ignition switch harness

Ignition       +               Green wire at ignition switch harness. Cut this wire for igntion immobilization.

Starter        +               WHITE/ Black wire at ignition switch harness.  Cut this wire for starter immobilization.

I suggest that if your starter or ignition kills are on-board then use outboard relays instead. Be sure to use the ignition signal from the key side to feed the relay coils of the immobilizers after you've done the ignition kill.

Also, I don't get what you mean by turbo loaded up.

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Prepare your future. It wasn't the lack of stones that killed the stone age.

Big Dog wrote:

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Here's how your security system should be wired in your car.

ITEM     POLARITY     LOCATION
12V+           +               White wire at ignition switch harness
Ignition       +               Green wire at ignition switch harness. Cut this wire for igntion immobilization.
Starter        +               WHITE/ Black wire at ignition switch harness.  Cut this wire for starter immobilization.

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The colour of the wires are incorrect. According to the 4-wire loom coming off my ignition barrel, 12V+ is Black, Ignition is BLACK/ White, Starter is BLACK / YELLOW and ACC is BLACK/ Blue. I am using ACC as ignition signal as I am running a turbo timer. I cannot use ignition as it gets immobilised.

Big Dog wrote:

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Also, I don't get what you mean by turbo loaded up.

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I have a GReddy Turbo Timer, and when I put my keys in onto "ON", the display on the turbo-timer will show the company logo and blink for abit, before showing "1:00" (amount of time the timer is set for). Whilst it is showing the company logo, etc, etc, The car will crank, but won't start. (No funny noises here funny enough). After it is "loaded up" (when it shows 1:00), I am then able to start the car up.

Big Dog wrote:

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I suggest that if your starter or ignition kills are on-board then use outboard relays instead

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How do I go about doing this using my alarm? There are 4 wires coming out of the alarm brain (which I assume is connected to relays inside the alarm) Do I use them for the external relay setup?

And with this immobiliser, it is kinda weird seeing as even though it is dis-armed, the pair of wires do not show continuity?

Sorry about having to explain so much, I just would like to get this sorted out.

Cheers Big Dog :)

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'00 Subaru B4 Legacy RSK

If the alarm is similar to UK Cat l products, the wires are load sensitive, for example turn on ign and then see if the "ign side" shows avoltage. Also supply a voltage to the starter "key side" then see if the "starter  starter side" shows a voltage, N.B. if  there is a single ignition stand-off wire this should have 12v+ applied at the same time. Do this when it's disarmed. This will eliminate OR NOT your alarm as the problem.  Also I'm a bit confused, is there a Rem/Start in this set-up?  Is your problem normal running or when you engage remote start?  It might be worth disconnecting the turbo-timer as well. Frankly when I'm doing a set up like this, I throw away the turbo timer and use the alarm aux  set to 1 min and a relay to give me a turbo timer, it's simpler and safer.

howie ll wrote:

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If the alarm is similar to UK Cat l products, the wires are load sensitive, for example turn on ign and then see if the "ign side" shows avoltage. Also supply a voltage to the starter "key side" then see if the "starter  starter side" shows a voltage, N.B. if there is a single ignition stand-off wire this should have 12v+ applied at the same time. Do this when it's disarmed. This will eliminate OR NOT your alarm as the problem.  Also I'm a bit confused, is there a Rem/Start in this set-up?  Is your problem normal running or when you engage remote start?  It might be worth disconnecting the turbo-timer as well. Frankly when I'm doing a set up like this, I throw away the turbo timer and use the alarm aux  set to 1 min and a relay to give me a turbo timer, it's simpler and safer.

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Hey mate. No remote start. According to the instructions, it just says cut starter and put either wire to key side/coil side. Same as the ignition immobiliser.

howie ll wrote:

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N.B. if there is a single ignition stand-off wire this should have 12v+ applied at the same time.N.B. if there is a single ignition stand-off wire this should have 12v+ applied at the same time.

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So there should be 12V+ source to ignition sense while starting?

howie ll wrote:

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Frankly when I'm doing a set up like this, I throw away the turbo timer and use the alarm aux  set to 1 min and a relay to give me a turbo timer, it's simpler and safer.

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There is no alarm auxiliary sadly.

howie ll wrote:

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If the alarm is similar to UK Cat l products, the wires are load sensitive, for example turn on ign and then see if the "ign side" shows avoltage. Also supply a voltage to the starter "key side" then see if the "starter  starter side" shows a voltage.

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Will try this and psot results. Cheers

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'00 Subaru B4 Legacy RSK

I'm waiting anxiously for the reply. I want to know if the starter is just nagging, or if the relays really have a cold.

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Ideal - cmon dude, add to topics in a useful manner, not stuff that is obvious.
Story - Phzzzt! Hey, what happened?! ... Isn't it obvious?
Moral - Never dismiss the obvious.

_deagle_,

You actually could use the ignition wire for "ignition sensing", despite the fact of it getting immobilized. Just connect it on the side of the cut which is closer to the key cylinder.

As far as your starter problem I'm sort of suspecting that there's a problem with the connections and they aren't getting enough current to the starter itself. Either that or the starter solenoid in a fluke occurrence went bad on its own(you could rule this out by applying 12V directly to the starter solenoid switched wire - be careful not to do this in gear!).

Are you using butt connectors or solder for the main wires from the ignition switch? Twisting and taping the wires is not good for any kind of high current wires like that.

If your connections are solid, I'd suspect the internals of the immobilizer module itself. In that case howie ii could diagnose better(in the US we don't have such products, just alarms with a starter kill relay).

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C Renner's Auto Electronix
My service is cheap, quick, and good - pick any two

howie ll wrote:

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N.B. if  there is a single ignition stand-off wire this should have 12v+ applied at the same time.

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Have swapped ignition sense cable to keyside ignition and works fine work. No noise whilst starting at all.

Thanks for all the help guys =)

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'00 Subaru B4 Legacy RSK