ground when armed wire problem
Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Security and Convenience
Forum Discription: Car Alarms, Keyless Entries, Remote Starters, Immobilizer Bypasses, Sensors, Door Locks, Window Modules, Heated Mirrors, Heated Seats, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=112001
Printed Date: July 18, 2025 at 9:58 PM
Topic: ground when armed wire problem
Posted By: mishi
Subject: ground when armed wire problem
Date Posted: February 28, 2009 at 5:19 PM
Hi, Have a viper 300esp. When I bought my car used, it was installed with this and also an EL scanner. However the person had it improperly wired and so i reconnected it to the orange ground when armed wire... which worked perfectly when I armed it. Recently though I was asked by the former owner to bring the car to a LoJack specialist to remove their tracking system. When they did however, I noticed now that the scanner stays on whether the alarm is armed or not. It only shots off when the car is turned to the "ACC" section. I unwrapped their work to check everyting and all the connections seem fine So is my alarm module messed up? I can' figure why the ground when armed wire CONTINUOUSLY is grounded whether armed or not...
Replies:
Posted By: mishi
Date Posted: February 28, 2009 at 5:22 PM
Also should note that the car will start whether the car is armed or not and it carries the starter kill relay with 2 yellow wires 1 black (to starter) 1 orange (ground when armed) 1 green (to key)
Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: February 28, 2009 at 5:46 PM
It does sound like a dead ground while armed. pm t&t, he works in T rinidad and Tobago, he might be able to help you. Armed output failure is usually down to a blown transistor in the unit.
Posted By: t&t tech
Date Posted: March 01, 2009 at 9:23 AM
there is the possibilty that they removed the ground input of the scanner to an accesory wire which would cause your no scanner on acc position and immediately switching on once the key is off (the accesory wire will see ground in the off position, which will shorten the life span of your scanner), if it's car search you're reffering to, the system requires use of the ground when armed wire, so it;s possible when they removed it they disconnected the input to your scanner. if the car starts whether armed or unarmed either two things, they dissconnected the orange wire from the relay also or they blew the output somehow during their removal procedure and they had to shift it to the accesory, and hope you did'nt realize your immobiliser was non-functional. ------------- COMMIT YOUR WAY TO JEHOVAH AND HE WILL ACT IN YOUR BEHALF.
PSALMS 37:5
Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: March 01, 2009 at 10:05 AM
Just thought of something else, the original set up would have required the orange wire from alarm to go to starter relay terminal 85 AND the black side of the EL panel, 1 yellow to ignition and 1 to alarm yellow from terminal 86, key side (green) to 87a and starter side (black) to 30. There would also have to be a diode across the relay to prevent coil on rush back the orange wire affecting the EL panel. All these need checking and testing before any conclusions can be drawn.
Posted By: t&t tech
Date Posted: March 01, 2009 at 10:41 AM
howie i've seen the finished installs from the guys at car search hundreds of times, and i can tell you that my conclusion is based on that, they are far from pros when it comes to installing, they tap everything from our alarm connections, so remove power from the alarm and voila, no tracking device, it's a shame the general public doesn't know how vulnerable the system is for the prices they're paying,and also the fact that in my four years i have never seen a relay from dei fail YET, i'm not saying they don', but what are the odds? unless again something went wrong during their removal process. ------------- COMMIT YOUR WAY TO JEHOVAH AND HE WILL ACT IN YOUR BEHALF.
PSALMS 37:5
Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: March 01, 2009 at 12:20 PM
I absolutely agree with you. Too many cooks etc, especially when some are no good. I simply laid out what SHOULD be the case if correctly wired. I think they've taken the black ground lead of the EL panel directly to ground and fed it from ACC rather than permanently.
Posted By: mishi
Date Posted: March 01, 2009 at 9:38 PM
Actually I had rewired the EL before the lojack uninstall. andI checked it again and all was where I originally installed it... (Red to 12V +) Black to Ground and Yellow to Orange wire. I have a little knowledge on the wiring and nothing was moved. The relay wires are all where they should be connected... there was never any diode to begin with even before the incident. The yellow ground activated wire is directly on the orange wire out from the module harness... so i'm beginning to think it looks like my alarm has been screwed... Yeah it was Car search... I wasn't too pleased when I took down the panel in the evo to see the mess that they did...
Posted By: i am an idiot
Date Posted: March 01, 2009 at 10:34 PM
It may be an easy repair if you are willing to take the brain apart and are able to follow the traces from the pin that the orange wire is connected to. I need to know if it goes to a transistor (A 3 legged device) or an integrated circuit? What is the number on the part?
Posted By: mishi
Date Posted: March 02, 2009 at 5:59 AM
I'll check into it later today... right now the flu just decided to say "Hey lets get that mustard today!" So I'm out a commission for the moment.
Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: March 02, 2009 at 6:31 AM
There should be a 1amp diode across that relay with the band side towards the pos at either 86 or 85. How do you get flu in that climate? We've got snow coming back in the next few days....loverly
Posted By: mishi
Date Posted: March 02, 2009 at 7:10 AM
Oh yeah... trust me you can... but I don't envy you right about now with that snow coming... That diode is within the relay or just in the wiring?
Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: March 02, 2009 at 11:20 AM
The diode is across the coil vside (85 and 86) of the relay and the band should be at the positive side.
Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: March 02, 2009 at 2:33 PM
Why did I tempt the fates and make a joke about catching the flu in your climate? I've had to be 10ft from a rest room all day, now I've got the shiver's, my diner was toast and flora, with 2 x Excedrins! Sorry sorry sorry..... When is this bloody cricket going to end? Man Utd. beat my lot on penalties and I've got 2 x 07:00am tracking jobs tomorrow. It's now half eight and I'm thinking of going to bed wrapped up like a little old lady to knock out the fever. It's a wonderful life.
Posted By: t&t tech
Date Posted: March 02, 2009 at 4:59 PM
mishi] wrote:
p>Actually I had rewired the EL before the lojack uninstall. andI checked it again and all was where I originally installed it... (Red to 12V +) Black to Ground and Yellow to Orange wire.I have a little knowledge on the wiring and nothing was moved. The relay wires are all where they should be connected... there was never any diode to begin with even before the incident. The yellow ground activated wire is directly on the orange wire out from the module harness... so i'm beginning to think it looks like my alarm has been screwed... Yeah it was Car search... I wasn't too pleased when I took down the panel in the evo to see the mess that they did...
the yellow ground activated wire is not supposed to go to the orange period, the orange from the relay goes to the orange from the alarm, the yellow wires, there are normally two, both common at the relay, one goes to ignition to activate starter kill and the other to feed the ignition input of the alarm for the purpose of trigger, if it is the yellow really is connected to the orange of the alarm, and you haven't made a blunder in your post, then correct it, orange to orange, one of the yellow to the yellow of the alarm, and the other yellow to a true ignition. ------------- COMMIT YOUR WAY TO JEHOVAH AND HE WILL ACT IN YOUR BEHALF.
PSALMS 37:5
Posted By: t&t tech
Date Posted: March 02, 2009 at 5:03 PM
oh and howie no external diodes are present on dei relays here, and to mishi if the above post is right, and you correct the problem, that is if the ground output of the alarm is already blown, post back there's one more thing you'll have to do, but that's if you complete the above first.
-------------
COMMIT YOUR WAY TO JEHOVAH AND HE WILL ACT IN YOUR BEHALF.
PSALMS 37:5
Posted By: mishi
Date Posted: March 03, 2009 at 4:52 AM
No no when I said the yellow grounded output, I was referring to the EL scanner... sorry for not making it clearer. The starter kill relay is wired as you have stated earlier... Still battling the flu and the rain's pouring over here... I do have another option though... I may be able to get my hands on another modude to see if everything will work. properly...
Posted By: i am an idiot
Date Posted: March 03, 2009 at 6:23 AM
IF the module you have access to is another alarm brain, if you figure out that it is the brain that is bad, take yours apart and follow the trace from the pin of the orange connection. It may go to a transistor that has been defaced. It will make things much easier if you had the other brain to get a part number off of the part.
Posted By: mishi
Date Posted: March 07, 2009 at 8:10 AM
Ok took apart the unit this morning and found nothing wrong... no breakage, no traces of something blowing... nada. Tried the other 300esp unit I got from another car and strangely enough, it did the exact same thing... starting with the alarm armed. So now I really guess it's a wiring issue. I decided to run the scanner's ground and ground when armed wires to the orange ouput of the alarm. It still runs when the car is off but it's quite faint until I actually arm the system. But now I'm a bit lost as to what connection is wrong as I said everything looks to be connected where it's supposed to... maybe tomorrow I'll totally disconnect the system and redo it all wire by wire and see. failing that I'll just take it to the damn specialist here on the island.
Posted By: i am an idiot
Date Posted: March 07, 2009 at 11:47 AM
You should ground the LED assembly to ground. Only connect the trigger wire to the ground out when armed. The g.o.w.a wire is probably capable of 200 milliamps. The starter kill relay alone is drawing 160 milliamps.
Posted By: mishi
Date Posted: March 07, 2009 at 2:25 PM
yes and I agree. but for the temporary moment till I figure out just what's going on I'll leave it be. When I have the led to ground it stays lit as in the original problem. Will diconnect the main wires tomorrow or Monday and see...
Posted By: mishi
Date Posted: March 10, 2009 at 4:38 PM
Well here's the update: Took apart the entire alarm wiring system today and found probably the worst uninstall of an item in my life. They really just did it and hoped I wouldn't notice after all. The yellow wire out of the starter kill relay was in fact not routed to the ignition wire, but to the acc wire. But the fun part is that tracing the wire originally, it looked to be going into the correct section. To my surprise (or should I say horror) these people actually cut a piece of the yellow relay wire that was originally on the ignition on... leaving it parially exposed and ran it to the acc wire, while keeping both the exposed piece and the rerouted wire near each other. So when you look at it before taking everything apart it looked as if the wore really was in the correct location. So took it all apart and reconnected them... all back to normal at least for the alarm system. But unfortunately the scanned is dead. Did rewire it back to the original manner with ground to chassis before anythng else, but no power is going to it now... Oh well no big deal. Thanks to everyone for the help.
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