power window motor rest at ground?
Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Security and Convenience
Forum Discription: Car Alarms, Keyless Entries, Remote Starters, Immobilizer Bypasses, Sensors, Door Locks, Window Modules, Heated Mirrors, Heated Seats, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=112645
Printed Date: May 05, 2024 at 8:20 PM
Topic: power window motor rest at ground?
Posted By: wungun
Subject: power window motor rest at ground?
Date Posted: March 25, 2009 at 7:30 AM
I'm having trouble understanding how my factory Ford express window modules (relays) work by only sending + current to the window motors? Either the window motors rest 'open' or on 'ground' when they aren't used, but it looks like the window switch is switching directly, both + and - to the motor. When the express modules gets the trigger from the switch for express, I believe ground is being sent to the motor as well, but ONLY while the switch is depressed. When you let go of the switch, the only thing driving the motor is the + from the module... The module has a thin gauge ground, and a thin gauge 'cancel' lead, which hooks up to the opposite side of the switch...to stop 'express', you tap the window switch in the opposite direction. It uses heavy gauge wire for the motor lead, the + IN and switch signal IN... Can someone explain to me how this works without sending a dedicated - current to the motor? Thanks
Replies:
Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: March 25, 2009 at 8:09 AM
Didn't I tell you this a long time ago? It's very simple if it's similar to the Euro Ford system. The switch sends neg feeds to a processor mounted next to the motor. The motor is fed with a permanent, a ground, a data feed from the GEM box and an ignition trigger or overide. The motor wires run inside the processor or more likely tracks to the motor and that's the point you pick them up. "I TOLD YOU SO" a couple of months ago but of course you knew better.
Posted By: wungun
Date Posted: March 25, 2009 at 8:29 AM
howie ll wrote:
Didn't I tell you this a long time ago? It's very simple if it's similar to the Euro Ford system. The switch sends neg feeds to a processor mounted next to the motor. The motor is fed with a permanent, a ground, a data feed from the GEM box and an ignition trigger or overide. The motor wires run inside the processor or more likely tracks to the motor and that's the point you pick them up. "I TOLD YOU SO" a couple of months ago but of course you knew better.
I'm talking about the North American Focus...the motor is acted upon directly from the switch... As for using the Ghia (Euro) switch conversion, I designed and made this to make it work in my car using the Ghia switch... 
It'll drive two windows normally, and two windows in 'express' in both directions...It's compatible with the 530T or the factory Ford express relays (Taurus). I'm gonna use the OE Ford modules because they have a cancel feature built in...I'm not etrirely sure how the 530T 'cancels'. Here is the Ford relay... 
From right to left, it's: wire 1 - to motor
wire 2 - to switch
wire 3 - accessory power (12v+)
wire 4 - opposite direction switch side (cancel)
wire 5 - ground What I'm trying to understand is, how these relays only send 12v+ to the motor, not 12v+ AND ground to run them...the only connection they have to the motor is 12V+. If wire 4 was hooked up to the MOTOR side of the other lead, and sent 'ground', sure...but the wire is too thin, and it's connected to the switch side, not the motor.
Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: March 25, 2009 at 1:34 PM
I can see your point but I can't answer your question, there was no relay like that in the Euro Ghia, in fact that would take 2 relays, or that unit is switching 2 other relays, one for up and one for down, as I said before the Euro version has a processor built on to the motor. Two answer your question, yes in the non-Ghia Euro version the motor wires both sit on ground at rest. What if the motor wires sit on 12v+ at rest? switching neg would then do the trick....just a thought.
Posted By: wungun
Date Posted: March 25, 2009 at 6:27 PM
I know some Euro makes have 12v+ at rest....I THINK mine rests 'open', as the + and - are switched at the windows switch, but with the 530T connected, they rest at 'ground'...which really complicates things, especially when the 530 MUST be connected close to the motors to 'see' the feedback they make... Back to the drawing board I guess!!
Posted By: Ween
Date Posted: March 25, 2009 at 8:32 PM
hi, the window switches motor leads rest at ground on the taurus. the operation of the express down module i figure is something like this: the module has accessory feed power from fuse box, ground for electronics, up input...also connects to window motor, down input, and down output to motor. down input applied... module applies positive voltage on down output terminal, ground applied through window switch to motor. motor rotates one direction. module measures current drawn by motor. as motor stalls, current increases..module switches off output. up input applied... positive voltage applied through window switch, and also at up input. positive voltage at up input makes module switch down input normally closed. negative voltage applied through window switch flows through normally closed connection to motor. motor rotates opposite direction now if i actually had one in front of me, i'd diagnose further. m
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