Printer Friendly Forum Posts - pkfm on ’09 f 150

Alright gents: Here's the problem, wondering if anyone has encountered a solution to anything similar.

We completed the VIPER 5901 Security system, but the Remote Start has yet to work. 2009 Ford F-150, ordered the Xpresskit PKFM (2009 model of the 2008 Xpresskit XK04). Here's the deal. I passed by the local Viper dealer (cooky SOB) and told him the problem. He cooked an attitude and said he'd have to rip out my entire installation to re-inspect it. I've wireloomed, taped, cable-tied, etc every wire to the system (it's the cleanest installation anyone would ever do on my truck - no installer will take the time or pride I took in doing so), and the guy said he's going to have to rip it ALL out and re-do it. Not happening.

When I mentioned to him that I have the PKFM, he said that's the problem. He claims that the PKFM is NOT compatible with the 09 F-150, despite the fact that their website claims otherwise. He said they base their "compatibility chart" on "theory" and only hope it will work. He suggests ordering a Universal key immobilizer. Indeed, if this gets the R/S to work, then so be it, but I'd rather get it working with the PKFM and prove him wrong. He's failed at every attempt to get it to work with other 09's.

Any suggestions?

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Daniel

Im sure the guy is not interested in finishing a install you couldn't do.

I wouldl't do it either i don't do half installs due to that ,after finishing your job .

All blame to whatever goes wrong after will be his fault.

PKFM should work for the 09 F150's. You need 2 keys to program. What is the car doing? Is it even cranking?

I did one of the first 09 F150's in my area and i did not have correct tech wiring info when it came out. The TX and RX wires were backwards from what was listed. And all my wires I found in the passenger kick, not the ignition switch.

Draw me a diagram of what you connected to what if you like posted_image

But seriously... what is it doing?

robertsc wrote:

Im sure the guy is not interested in finishing a install you couldn't do.
I wouldl't do it either i don't do half installs due to that ,after finishing your job .
All blame to whatever goes wrong after will be his fault.

I'm not bothered by that. Nothing against installers, but crimping wire color to wire color is the same no matter who does it. I have the exact wire and location that I crimped every wire, so if providing him with a diagram of exactly what's under the loom isn't enough, then I'll find someone who is willing to work with me or I'll continue to work at it myself. Another guy I talked to said he'd do it, but he wouldn't warranty it.

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Daniel

yimke] wrote:

KFM should work for the 09 F150's. You need 2 keys to program. What is the car doing? Is it even cranking?

I did one of the first 09 F150's in my area and i did not have correct tech wiring info when it came out. The TX and RX wires were backwards from what was listed. And all my wires I found in the passenger kick, not the ignition switch.

Draw me a diagram of what you connected to what if you like
But seriously... what is it doing?

yimke: I have the two factory keys. I'm leaning towards thinking that the PKFM isn't even picking up the programming. It doesn't "confirm" the procedure as it says in the instructions for the programming.

The truck isn't cranking. I've swapped the Viper module from its default setting of MANUAL TRANS to AUTO TRANS. When I hit the R/S on the keypad, the remote shows the startup being performed but the unit doesn't do anything. It's not even turning on the dash. As with the universal unit, you could place the key in the ignition and it would read it - with this one you cannot (or at least I can't).

The TX and RX wires may be backwards... I noticed that. I tried to find an actual tech wiring for the 09's but I couldn't so I read it straight out of the FORD 2009 F-150 WIRING MANUAL. But I do have the wires hooked up just behind the ignition switch. (Funny, when I told the installer that I talked to that I hooked up most of my wires at the passenger's kick panel he chuckled and commented that I didn't have to go way over there. I told him it was cleaner that way and less wires underneath my steering column... perfect example of when you do something yourself, you'll do it right. Not saying his install wouldn't be clean, but I know for sure that mine is.)

I'm going to get you a diagram... give me a few minutes. Surely appreciate the assistance.

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Daniel

Primary Harness (H1)

H1/1 (Trunk). RD/WH –N/U

H1/2 (+12V). RD to +12V CON

H1/3 (+Siren). BN to +SIREN

H1/4 (Light Flash). WH/BN to VT/WH

H1/5 (-Chassis). BK to CHASSIS GROUND

H1/6 (+Trigger). VT to DOOR TRIGGERS with diode isolate

H1/7 (Instant Trigger). BU –N/U

H1/8 (-Trigger). GN –N/U

H1/9 (Domelight Supervision). BK/WH to GN/BU

H1/10 (Remote Start). WH/BU --- ???

H1/11 (Parking Lights). WH to VT/WH (-)

H1/12 (Ground When Armed). OG –N/U

Aux Harness (H2)

H2/1 (Factory Disarm). LG/BK –N/U

H2/2 (Factory Arm). LG/WH –N/U

H2/3 (Aux 1). WH/VT –N/U

H2/4 (Aux 2). VT/BK –N/U

H2/5 (Aux 3). WH/BK –N/U

H2/6 (2nd Unlock). LB –N/U

H2/7 (Wait-to-start). GY/BK –N/U

H2/8 (Horn). BN/BK to BU/WH

Heavy Gauge Harness (H3)

H3/1 (Ignition 1). PK to WH/OG

H3/2 (Ignition 2). RD/WH –N/U

H3/3 (Accessory). OG to VT/GN

H3/4 (Starter Input). VT to BU/WH (ignition side)

H3/5 (Starter Output). GN to BU/WH (starter side)

H3/6 (Igntion 1 Relay). RD –N/U

H3/7 (Ignition 2 Relay). PK/WH –N/U

H3/8 (87a). PK/BK –N/U

H3/9 (Acc/Starter Relay). RD/BK –N/U

Remote Start Harness

1 (Neutral). BK/WH to CHASSIS GROUND

2 (Tach). VT/WH –N/U

3 (Brake). BN to VT/WH(+)

4 (Hood Pin). GY to HOODPIN SWITCH

5 (Defogger). BU/WH –N/U

Remote Start Aux Harness

1 (Flex Relay). PK/WH –N/U

2 (Accessory Relay). OG –N/U

3 (Starter Relay). VT –N/U

4 (Ignition 1). PK –N/U

5 (Bypass Module). BU to BYPASS MODULE BROWN WIRE

Bypass Module

PINK (PATS RX) to VT/GY

GREEN (PATS TX) to YE/OG

BROWN to Remote Start Aux #5 BU

ORANGE to H3/1 PK

RED to +12V CON

BLACK to CHASSIS GROUND

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Daniel

Primary Harness (H1)
H1/1 (Trunk). RD/WH –N/U
H1/2 (+12V). RD to +12V CON
H1/3 (+Siren). BN to +SIREN
H1/4 (Light Flash). WH/BN to VT/WH
H1/5 (-Chassis). BK to CHASSIS GROUND
H1/6 (+Trigger). VT to DOOR TRIGGERS with diode isolate
H1/7 (Instant Trigger). BU –N/U
H1/8 (-Trigger). GN –N/U
H1/9 (Domelight Supervision). BK/WH to GN/BU
H1/10 (Remote Start). WH/BU --- ???
H1/11 (Parking Lights). WH to VT/WH (-)
H1/12 (Ground When Armed). OG –N/U

Aux Harness (H2)
H2/1 (Factory Disarm). LG/BK –N/U
H2/2 (Factory Arm). LG/WH –N/U
H2/3 (Aux 1). WH/VT –N/U
H2/4 (Aux 2). VT/BK –N/U
H2/5 (Aux 3). WH/BK –N/U
H2/6 (2nd Unlock). LB –N/U
H2/7 (Wait-to-start). GY/BK –N/U
H2/8 (Horn). BN/BK to BU/WH

Heavy Gauge Harness (H3)
H3/1 (Ignition 1). PK to WH/OG
H3/2 (Ignition 2). RD/WH –N/U
H3/3 (Accessory). OG to VT/GN
H3/4 (Starter Input). VT to BU/WH (ignition side)
H3/5 (Starter Output). GN to BU/WH (starter side)
H3/6 (Igntion 1 Relay). RD –N/U
H3/7 (Ignition 2 Relay). PK/WH –N/U
H3/8 (87a). PK/BK –N/U
H3/9 (Acc/Starter Relay). RD/BK –N/U

Remote Start Harness
1 (Neutral). BK/WH to CHASSIS GROUND
2 (Tach). VT/WH –N/U
3 (Brake). BN to VT/WH(+)
4 (Hood Pin). GY to HOODPIN SWITCH
5 (Defogger). BU/WH –N/U

Remote Start Aux Harness
1 (Flex Relay). PK/WH –N/U
2 (Accessory Relay). OG –N/U
3 (Starter Relay). VT –N/U
4 (Ignition 1). PK –N/U
5 (Bypass Module). BU to BYPASS MODULE BROWN WIRE

Bypass Module
PINK (PATS RX) to VT/GY
GREEN (PATS TX) to YE/OG
BROWN to Remote Start Aux #5 BU
ORANGE to H3/1 PK
RED to +12V CON
BLACK to CHASSIS GROUND

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Daniel

fordguy218 wrote:

H1/10 (Remote Start). WH/BU --- ???
2 (Tach). VT/WH –N/U
5 (Bypass Module). BU to BYPASS MODULE BROWN WIRE
Bypass Module
PINK (PATS RX) to VT/GY
GREEN (PATS TX) to YE/OG
BROWN to Remote Start Aux #5 BU

The above wires are the ones that I'm unsure of. I don't think I need the TACH wire (according to the manual).

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Daniel

Don't worry about the WHITE/ blue wire, it is for more advanced setups.

Change your brown wire to the blue/white defogger wire on the 5901. I have had output issues on the newer brains.

As for the TX and RX wires go off of the pin location, not colors. Here is a connector, it should be a B type connector, and you can verify which wires are that way. Look at this page 3

yourhttps://www.xpressdownload.com/getdocument.aspx?documentid=1049

Your tach wire should be connected to a tach wire from the vehicle. This will allow for more accurate starts, but you do have to switch it to tach sense on programming in the 5901, then learn your tach signal.

Lastly make sure your PKFM has it flashed for software PKF3 v1.00. I don't believe it will work on the PKFORD v3.00. I do not know the answer for this, but I know that they switched something up in 2009 with the new body style. I found this out the hard way with a pkall bypass.

Try these hints and get back to me. I appreciate clean looking installs posted_image

I'll do this in the morning and let you know what's up.

As for the colors of the TX/RX wires, I got those out of the FORD WIRING MANUAL. They are pins 3 and 4 but the connector on the 09's isn't any of the ones in the PK manual. I'm pretty sure it's like E connector, but RX is pin 3 and TX is pin 4.

How do I confirm the flashware of the PK module?

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Daniel

So why don't it work if its that easy?

Robert- If I said it was easy, I say it all the time. Except for stuff I hate doing.

Ford- You need a XKloader loader to change firmware/see what software you are running. This is the reason I buy bypass modules from a local store, so they can flash it for free for you.

Even if it is type E connector, the pin outs are pretty much the same. Follow the pin guide, not what colors look best. And you can verify the correct pin outs by testing ground and ignition.

Have you tried just putting the key in the ignition, and then remote starting the vehicle? If it does not remote start when you do this, you have more than a bypass issue, and I would concentrate on the actual remote start before messing with the bypass. The fact that you said "none of the dash lights comes on," tells me you might not have the remote start hooked up correctly.

I agree with mikvot. Get the truck to remote start with the key in the ignition in the OFF position before even attempting to work on the bypass module. You can keep the wires of the bypass module connected, but unplug it until you get the truck to remote start with the key in the ignition.

yimke] wrote:

obert- If I said it was easy, I say it all the time. Except for stuff I hate doing.

Its easy if you know what your doing.

Troubleshooting and knowing what to do is half the job.

People always bash our industry they all think its so easy until it dosn't work.

Therefore thinking that we charge to much.

mikvot wrote:

Have you tried just putting the key in the ignition, and then remote starting the vehicle? If it does not remote start when you do this, you have more than a bypass issue, and I would concentrate on the actual remote start before messing with the bypass. The fact that you said "none of the dash lights comes on," tells me you might not have the remote start hooked up correctly.

JWorm] wrote:

agree with mikvot. Get the truck to remote start with the key in the ignition in the OFF position before even attempting to work on the bypass module. You can keep the wires of the bypass module connected, but unplug it until you get the truck to remote start with the key in the ignition.

mikvot and Jworm: I've tried this. Obviously, if this doesn't work it's not the bypass but the wiring... any suggestions other than what yimke suggested?

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Daniel

robertsc wrote:

yimke] wrote:

obert- If I said it was easy, I say it all the time. Except for stuff I hate doing.

Its easy if you know what your doing.
Troubleshooting and knowing what to do is half the job.
People always bash our industry they all think its so easy until it dosn't work.
Therefore thinking that we charge to much.

robertsc: I don't have a problem paying for a service, but I do believe that $65-$85 per hour is somewhat expensive when I ask for a roundabout figure and the installer can't give me an estimate ("Oh I don't know how long it'll take... I have to break her open and see" - my personal opinion but if you work on vehicles all the time installing systems, you would think you'd have SOMEWHAT of a clue). So I'm trusting this installer to work hard and if he gets lucky I'll get my truck back in 2 hours. Or I may get screwed and it takes him 4 hours and I'm paying $250+... I'll do it myself. If they guy could have given me an answer, I'd trust him more. But don't screw around with people's money.

Not to mention that this guy has absolutely 0% customer service skills. Come on man, be a fellow citizen to society and help a person out when he's trying to learn a skill that you already know. If I have everything (presumably) hooked up properly and there are three wires I'm unsure of... why not just throw me some advice on where I need to go with these?

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Daniel

What is it that turns the dash on? Is that the ignition wire?

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Daniel

I would say you probably have a wrong wire or theres something wrong with the starter.

Did you verify every wire?

If there were something wrong with the starter, then my vehicle wouldn't start at all, right? So it must be the wire... I'll have to re-check the wire.

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Daniel

hes referring to something wrong with remote starter no=t trucks starter
if the dash isnt turning on you have miswired something on the ignition circuits,you must not have the proper ign wire,if you did it would at least turn the dash on just wouldnt crank if bypass was prob, they didnt change the transponder chip for 09 just a couple wires/location
truck has 1 ign(WHITE/ org), 1 access(WHITE/ grn), 1 starter(blue/white)
does the system lock/unlock the doors?
remove the bypass from the circuit, and get the remote start to work via key sitting in cylinder first then move on to the interface/bypass
you may have bad ground, poor 12v constant,this is why shop wants to remove system, they want to reconnect to all known points and wires that they have used with success , otherwise it would take tlonger to diagnose system wire by wire with your install, also, to only repair part of the wiring would make it next to impossible to warranty any fasilure(till inspected could be your wire theirs or unit, they just want to make sure they do it all therefore if a problem occurs its on their end or d.e.i.'s end, not a guessing game )

jim:

thanks for your reply. i'll doublecheck the ignition wire. pretty sure it's the right WHITE/ orange. the accessory you listed (WHITE/ green), are you sure that's not violet/green?

Yes, the system locks/unlocks the doors.

I have a great +12V Constant. I ran a 10-gauge wire straight from the battery with an inline fuse. I grounded to a factory ground just underneath the steering column where about 6 other grounds were heading.

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Daniel

Ok, after reviewing your wirings, I wondered why 2, 6 & 9 are NOT connected to constant +12 volt ?

moonliter wrote:

Heavy Gauge Harness (H3)
H3/1 (Ignition 1). PK to WH/OG
H3/2 (Ignition 2). RD/WH –N/U
H3/3 (Accessory). OG to VT/GN
H3/4 (Starter Input). VT to BU/WH (ignition side)
H3/5 (Starter Output). GN to BU/WH (starter side)
H3/6 (Igntion 1 Relay). RD –N/U
H3/7 (Ignition 2 Relay). PK/WH –N/U
H3/8 (87a). PK/BK –N/U
H3/9 (Acc/Starter Relay). RD/BK –N/U
Ok, after reviewing your wirings, I wondered why 2, 6 & 9 are NOT connected to constant +12 volt ?

Here are the descriptions for each as per the Viper 5901 installation manual.

H3/1. Ignition 1 Input/Output. Connect this wire to the igntion wire in the vehicle. This wire not only supplies voltage for the ignition line in the vehicle, it is also the igntion feed for the security system.
H3/2. (+) (30A) Fused Ignition 2/Flex Relay Input 87. This wire is the polarity feed for the ignition 2/flex relay.
H3/3. Accessory Output. Connect this wire to the accessory wire that powers the climate control system.
H3/4. Starter Output. This wire hooks up to the starter side of the starter wire in the car. This wire is also pin 30 of the onboard starter kill relay.
H3/6. (+) (30A) Fused Ignition 1 Relay Input. This wire is the polarity feed for the ignition 1 relay.
H3/9. (+) (30A) Fused Accessory/Starter Relay Input. This wire is the polarity feed to the accessory and starter relays.

I have H3/1 spliced into the ignition wire. H3/2 is for a second ignition circuit (which I don't have). H3/6 - don't need this because H3/1 is supplying the signal, right? H3/9 - don't need this because H3/3 and H3/4 are supplying the signals, right?

This security system has onboard relays for the starter, ignition, and parking lights. The only relays I had to install were for the door lock/unlock.

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Daniel

there in lies your problem! the viper unit has 3 constant hots, h3/6 and h3/9 have to go to constant hot, these are the relay feed lines so that the output wires send 12 volts upon start, the red and white i believe is not required to go to constant hot as your not using the pink/white (2nd ign/acc line) but as it sits the way you have it wired your sending 12v to the brain for functions but you have no 12v for the starter relay or the ignition feed relay upn remote start
also why did you use relays for door locks? that trucks door lock wires are negative tap ins

jim hunter wrote:

there in lies your problem! the viper unit has 3 constant hots, h3/6 and h3/9 have to go to constant hot, these are the relay feed lines so that the output wires send 12 volts upon start, the red and white i believe is not required to go to constant hot as your not using the pink/white (2nd ign/acc line) but as it sits the way you have it wired your sending 12v to the brain for functions but you have no 12v for the starter relay or the ignition feed relay upn remote start
also why did you use relays for door locks? that trucks door lock wires are negative tap ins

jim: That makes a great bit of sense. I wonder if perhaps that is the entire problem!? As for why I used relays with the door locks... the unit has the green wire and blue wire that sends out opposite signals on lock or unlock, right? So I tapped into the the C2280C harness (PIN 17 VT/GY and PIN 4 GY/YE) and connected them to the 30 output of two relays. The 09 F-150 is 3-wire negative so I did this....

posted_image

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Daniel

fordguy218 wrote:

robertsc wrote:

yimke] wrote:

obert- If I said it was easy, I say it all the time. Except for stuff I hate doing.

Its easy if you know what your doing.

Troubleshooting and knowing what to do is half the job.

People always bash our industry they all think its so easy until it dosn't work.

Therefore thinking that we charge to much.

robertsc: I don't have a problem paying for a service, but I do believe that $65-$85 per hour is somewhat expensive when I ask for a roundabout figure and the installer can't give me an estimate ("Oh I don't know how long it'll take... I have to break her open and see" - my personal opinion but if you work on vehicles all the time installing systems, you would think you'd have SOMEWHAT of a clue). So I'm trusting this installer to work hard and if he gets lucky I'll get my truck back in 2 hours. Or I may get screwed and it takes him 4 hours and I'm paying $250+... I'll do it myself. If they guy could have given me an answer, I'd trust him more. But don't screw around with people's money.

Not to mention that this guy has absolutely 0% customer service skills. Come on man, be a fellow citizen to society and help a person out when he's trying to learn a skill that you already know. If I have everything (presumably) hooked up properly and there are three wires I'm unsure of... why not just throw me some advice on where I need to go with these?

At the same time he was thinking, if I quote him too high he will go away, but if I quote him too low, i will get screwed out of MY money.

No offense, but we like to get paid for our work properly. I'm not going to charge you for an hour if it took me 5 minutes. That's why I say as long as it takes me, $80 an hour. You call the shot when to stop.

yimke] wrote:

SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman','serif'; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; mso-fareast-font-family: Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font: minor-latin; mso-ansi-language: EN-US; mso-fareast-language: EN-US; mso-bidi-language: AR-SA">At the same time he was thinking, if I quote him too high he will go away, but if I quote him too low, i will get screwed out of MY money.

No offense, but we like to get paid for our work properly. I'm not going to charge you for an hour if it took me 5 minutes. That's why I say as long as it takes me, $80 an hour. You call the shot when to stop.

This would've taken me 15 minutes to find, fix, and paperwork. So ideally you would've been paying $20 for ease of mind, and great service.

Well yimke, there's the difference. With you, I would have walked out with a truck that worked, $20 less in my pocket, and a good bit of happiness because I had a quality line of customer service. I didn't feel like I would have had that with this guy... it may have created a different reaction if he hadn't told me that he was going to RIP everything out that I had already done. Wouldn't it have been more appropriate to say, I have to DOUBLE-CHECK your wiring, but leave it as it is?

Sounds like you would have helped me out, why can't all installers be like you?

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Daniel

I guess that is what separates some from the others. But I don't give detailed tech advise at work, so I guess people can perceive me as mean. Even though I will post info on here after work. But help a brother out, I got to feed my family too.

I probably would have given you two options.
Either
A. Let me redo the entire install so you have a lifetime craftsmanship with me. Probably around $250

or

B. Let me try to fix it, but with no warranty through me.

Usually people choose the cheaper option and I don't blame them. I feel in general, there is just a lack of options/communication in this business.

As for your lock/unlock wire setup up there, that is fine, but you really don't need relays unless it says you have to. Otherwise you could just go (-)green lock wire (-)blue unlock wire and hook them in. But your method does not hurt either, just more work.

I'm glad we got it fixed for you though. posted_image