Printer Friendly Forum Posts - 2005 superduty viper 5701

I have pretty much figured out the alarm side (except wether or not I need to do the gem wake-up relay and diode) of Viper 5701. This is going on a 2005 F250 6.0l diesel with factory remote keyless entry. The remote start is the issue (I don't want to fry something by hooking up something that I shouldn't). I just need clarification on where to hook a few wires to. Below is the breakdown I have figured out so far. Does it look right? The blanks.... I am unsure of... That is where the problem lies.

Do I need to install the GEM wakeup relay and diode?

Do I need to put a relay under the dash for the ignition/starter or is the "onboard starter kill relay" part of the viper system or truck system and all I need to do is cut the dark green wire? Do I even need to cut the dark green wire?

	10-PIN CONNECTOR HEAVY GAUGE	TRUCK WIRE COLOR AND LOCATION
PINK	(+)IGNITION 1 INPUT/OUTPUT	RED / LIGHT GREEN - IGNITION HARNESS
RED / WHITE	30A FUSED IGNITION 2/flex relay 87 input	NOT USED
ORANGE	ACCESSORY OUTPUT	DARK BLUE/LIGHT GREEN - IGNITION HARNESS
VIOLET	(+)STARTER OUTPUT CAR SIDE KILL	DK GREEN - CUT SIDE AWAY FROM IGNITION (pin30 onboard starter kill relay)
GREEN	(+)STARTER INPUT KEY SIDE KILL	DK GREEN - CUT SIDE TOWARDS KEY (pin 87a onboard strtr kill relay)
RED	(+)FUSED IGNITION relay INPUT
PINK/WHITE	(+)IGNITION2	NOT USED
PINK/BLACK	FLEX RELAY INPUT	NOT USED
RED / BLACK	FUSED ACCESSORY/STARTER relay INPUT
N/C	N/C	N/C

Wow, let me try and correct that. Cut paste from excel did not work out as planned.

10-pin connector (heavy gauge)

Pink : (+)ignition 1 input/output to RED / light green @ ignition harness

RED / White: 30A fused ignition 2 to not used

Orange: Accessory output to dark blue/light green @ ignition harness

Violet: (+)starter output to dark green after cutting it on cut side away from ignition

Green: (+)starter input to dark green after cutting it on cut side towards ignition

Red: (+) fused ignition input to yellow @ ignition harness (?)

Pink/White: (+)ignition 2 to not used

Pink/Black: flex relay input to not used

RED / Black: Fused accessory/starter input to (?)

NC (no connector)

Give me a minute. I'll fix it.

-------------
posted_image

the12volt • Support the12volt.com

Cut paste from word too?????

10pin connector heavy gauge

pink is (+) ignition 1 input/output and connected to RED / light green @ ignition harness

RED / white is (+)30a fused ignition 2/flex relay pin 87 input and is not used

orange is accessory output and connected to dark blue/light green at ignition harness

violet is starter output and is connected to dark green after cutting on the side away from ignition

green is starter input and is connected to the dark green after cutting on the side towards the key

red is 30a fused ignition 1 relay input and not sure where it goes.

pink/white is ignition 2 flex relay output and is not used

pink/black is 87a of ignition 2/flex relay and is not used

RED / black is 30a fused accessory/starter relay input and not sure where it goes

no wire in last slot.

That was fast the12volt. Nice. Guess I jumped the gun by reposting figuring nobody would attempt to correct it.

Some more background. This is my first install (obviously). I have downloaded tons of diagrams and read the DEI installation guide a few times. I cant seem to find the DirectFax document 1094, which has to do with the VSM (GEM?). I did find "Ford GEM Wake Up Diagram II" and it shows a relay connected to the door ajar wire and unlock output along with a diode from keyless entry module to unlock wire between relay and unlock wire. Is this something I need to do? I have read topics that say yes and no so far. I am about a week into researching this and still lost (but I gain some knowledge everyday and it becomes more clear.) Once I fully inderstand, I will install it and take lots of pics so other newbies will have a reference.

ok. the RED / black wire needs to be hooked up to a constant 12v source just like the solid red wire. the RED / x wires supply power to the onboard relays each red wire is an input to a relay that powers the other ignition and accessory outputs. you need to give power to the ones that correspond to what you have in your truck.

ex; your truck has 1 ignition, 1 accessory, and 1 starter so you would need to power up the solid red wire and the RED / black wire. if you had a second ignition or accessory in your truck you would need to power up the RED / white wire. does that make it clear?

basically all you are trying to do is simulate what is going on at the ignition harness when you use the key.

as far as i know f250's dont have any factory anti-theft so you shouldn't have to worry about using a bypass.

now, for the GEM wake up. the way you can find out if you need to do this or not is to lock your doors with the factory keypad and leave the window down and wait a few minutes. then try to unlock your truck using the interior door lock button. if it does not unlock then you need to wake the car up.

to do this, they want you to pulse the doorpin to make the truck think that someone opened the door from the inside. to make it work you might have to program the viper alarm to "double pulse" unlock and the manual will tell you how to do that through the valet switch and the keypad.

if the polarity of your factory lock wires is different from your doorpin's polarity then you need to use a relay to change the polarity so you wont fry anything. if you use a relay to do this then you dont need to use a diode to isolate the doorpin from the lock circuit.

-------------

Alright. So here is what is in the installation book for each wire and my guess as to where they go and what to do:

1. Pink, which is (+) ignition 1 input/output - connect this wire to the ignition wire in the vehicle. This wire not only supplies voltage for the ignition line in the vehicle, it is also the ignition feed for the security system.

Pink connects to yellow or RED / light green (constant 12v)

2. RED / White, not used because it is for 2nd ignition which I don't have.

3. Orange, which is Accessory output - connect this wire to the accessory wire that powers the climate control system.

Orange connects to dark blue/light green at ignition harness? Mine has the electronic display and not the knobs. Does this matter?

Starter input and starter output are next. Am I supposed to cut the starter wire and place these next wires on each side of the cut?

4. violet, which is starter output - this wire hooks up to the starter side of the starter wire in the car. This wire is also pin 30 of the onboard starter kill relay.

I am to cut the starter wire and on the side that does not go to the key attach the violet wire, or do I attach the violet wire and also place it on a relay at pin30?

5. Green, which is starter input - After cutting the starter wire connect the green wire to the end going to the ignition switch. This wire is pin 87a of the onboard starter kill relay.

Starter wire has been cut above so the green wire connects to the key side of the starter wire (dark green). Once again, am I supposed to attach this to a relay as well?

6. Red, which is 30 amp fused Ignition 1 relay input - This wire is the polarity feed for the Ignition 1 relay.

As mentioned above, I connect this to a 12v constant power (yellow or RED / light green)?

7. pink/white ignition2 flex relay output is not used.

8. pink/black 87a of ignition 2/flex relay is not used.

9. RED / black is 30amp fused accessory/starter relay input. - This wire is the polarity feed to the accessory and starter relays.

This one gets connected to 12v constant too?

Am I to use a relay? For the wires that talk about pin30, 87a and polarity inputs?

ok, you are close, the only problem is that i think you are confused when they mention "ignition" wire. the ignition wires as they mean it is a wire that is only on when the key is turned. it should not read 12v when the car is off.

so with that in mind, the answer to question 1 is no. it doesn't go to constant 12 volts. it goes to the wire that only gets 12v when you turn the key. im not sure which wire that is in your truck but with this knowledge you should be able to test the wires and verify that you are connecting the pink wire to the right wire.

also the only difference between an "ignition" wire and an "Accessory" wire is that an ignition wire will stay hot when you are cranking the starter and an accessory wire will loose power during crank and then power back up when you let go of the key.

the reason that this is an important difference is that the actual ignition wires are to power up the trucks onboard computers and other things that make it start and run. so if you mistakenly connect the accessory wire from the remotestarter to a vehicles ignition wire then it will fail to remote start because those wires are meant to be powered all tha way through the start cycle.

for your starter kill issues, you will be cutting the factory starter wire and you will hook the green wire to the side that goes to the key cylinder/ignition and the purple will go to the other side. tip: if you are soldering your connections, you should connect both wires to the starter wire first and then cut in between them after the solder cools off.

yes, your RED / black wire also gets 12v constant. so in total there should be 3 wires in the heavy gauge harness that you wont use and they are RED / white, pink/white, and pink/black. make sure you tape them up so they dont just hand there and possibly short something out.

oh, and here is a big thing that i overlooked. your truck is a diesel so instead of hooking it up to the wait-to-start bulb at the instrument cluster, you should just program the alarm for a short delay before it actually tries to crank the starter. and trust me, if you dont put the delay on and just let it crank normally then you will have some problems down the line. it might work now with no delay but it wont be as faithful when it gets colder.

-------------

Got it. The RED / light green is the ignition wire (not the yellow, which is constant power). I guess after reading everything and bouncing it off of the ford factory alarm diagram I downloaded (which helped with identifying some of the wires) and all of your help, I think I understand it enough now to tackle this project.

There is no wait to start wire on my truck, it is all integrated. I will program the delay start.

I have also heard lots of tach wire issues with the 6.0. I will try the initial wire identified first to see if that works (the one with all the PTO wires). I have read numerous things about setting it to voltage sense and on low, connecting to a wire in the engine compartment by the drivers battery, using an amplifier, using the DEI tach thing that goes on the alternator. So confusing with all the variables. You installers must really love your jobs. I have been farting with this thing for about a week now and I haven't hooked up the first wire.

Thanks for all your help. I'm sure I will be buggin ya'll again

One more quick question.....

I have 3 different accessory wires on the truck but only one (orange) wire to the remote starter labled as accessory output? Should I tie all three together and to the orange (doesn't seem too safe to do that)?

Where do i connect them?

since they are accessory wires you might not NEED to connect them for remote start. but depending on what they power in the truck you might want to hook them up anyway. you can do this by using a relay activated by the small orange wire on a short 4-pin harness that also has a pink, a purple, and a blue wire on it. that wire gives you a negative accessory output that is used to activate a relay.

or, you can go the cheap way and just split your accessory wire from the remote start. the problem with this is that it might blow the fuse on one of your red wires if the extra accessories draw too much power for the 30A fuses to handle.

its up to you.

and about the tach wire, i personally would program the alarm to do voltage sensing and be done with it. i cant remember the last time i actually used the tach wire. some people say that tach is more reliable but i rarely have any real problems using voltage sensing.

-------------

DON'T "go the cheap way" and split t your accs. output from the R/S. Use the negative outs to trigger a relay and do it the "right way"

The cheap way is also unsafe!

-------------

Alright. I got the idea. I was wondering what that short 5-pin harness was for. The orange is a neg trigger for accessory output. Now, guess I need to do some reading on how to wire this up to run the last two accessory wires. What do I have to do exactly to get that part wired in? I talked to an installer here who said to not worry about them, but I want this to be as functional as possible.

I know this is probably going to be overkill, but let me run it by you.

What if I run a heavy gauge fused wire from the positive of the drivers side battery to inside the truck and connect that end to a small distribution panel, use two of the slots on the distribution panel and connect to two relays at pins 30 and 86, then the (-)trigger (orange wire on small 5-pin harness) to the 85 of both relays, then each accessory wire to their own relay at pin 87 with 30a fuses inbetween the truck acc wires and pin 87?

one more question (for now), does the remote start that activates the accessory wires disable when the key is turned on or is power constantly fed to the acc wires all the time while the engine is running from both the remote start and factory wiring?

Ya'll have been so much help. I am truly getting a grasp on this thing. I still don't know how you can do this day in and day out. My hat's off to you.

well, at the ignition harness there should be more than one constant 12v wire. you can use those to run the accessories because that is what is running them now, thats what they are there for. there is nothing wrong with running the wire from the battery but i just think it is more trouble than it is worth. everything else that you described is perfect.

the remote starter does not power the accessories all of the time, only when you remote start the truck. and even then it is only until you turn the key and hit the brake. not sure if you realized that there is a wire called the "brake shutdown" it is a small brown wire that needs to be hooked up to the wire at the brake switch above the brake pedal. this wire will read 12v when you press the brake and nothing when you release the brake (foot brake not E-brake).

-------------

KarTuneMan wrote:

DON'T "go the cheap way" and split t your accs. output from the R/S. Use the negative outs to trigger a relay and do it the "right way"
The cheap way is also unsafe!

unsafe? i feel you when you say that it isn't right but if you take into consideration how much current the accessories draw and as long as it isnt more than the remotestart can handle on a single accessory wire then i see no problem with doing that in general. yes, some cars need to be isolated but most dont.

but dont listen to me, do it the right way posted_image

-------------

Got it all installed. Soldered everything. Ran two relays for the other two accessory wires so everything works. It works great. The only issue is that on first attemp to start after it has sat for awhile, it will go through the 15sec wait to start, then it will turn over for for a brief moment (way less than a second), then cycle again and start the next time. I have the tach connected to the GREEN / WHITE and the start time is at max. virtual tach is being used too. do I need to change something to eliminate this? Oh yeah, I installed a relay for the GEM wake up as well.

what do you mean by the start time is set to max? are you talking about the run time or the crank time. do you have the alarm programmed for tachometer checking or voltage checking?

i would lose the tach wire and set the engine checking option to voltage checking and maybe increase the cranking time maybe 1 step up and see if that helps.

-------------

Crank time is set to max. i will change the settings to voltage and see if that works. Thanks for all your help. I will never install another one.. You installers will get my money from now on.

If you have connected a wire to the tach signal, you should have the unit programmed to tachometer and not virtual tach, after doing this relearn the tach signal to the unit. Virtual tach is more of a smart voltage it monitors actual crank time and sets the unit to act accordingly, so you alrady have the tach connected, why not use it, it always works.Voltage is great to but tach works alot better in my opinion. But hey that's just my opinion!

soundnsecurity wrote:

KarTuneMan wrote:

DON'T "go the cheap way" and split t your accs. output from the R/S. Use the negative outs to trigger a relay and do it the "right way"
The cheap way is also unsafe!

unsafe? i feel you when you say that it isn't right but if you take into consideration how much current the accessories draw and as long as it isnt more than the remotestart can handle on a single accessory wire then i see no problem with doing that in general. yes, some cars need to be isolated but most dont.
but dont listen to me, do it the right way

Understand that the outputs on the R/S cannot exceed the input. Most R/S have 2 inputs each protected by (normally) a 30 amp fuse. @ inputs for ALL of the potential/properly connected, output needs. Start adding (demanding more) to/of these, and fuses blow.

Reading this post has been OUTSTANDING and provided clarity for my impending install of a very similar Viper 7901. I have been dumfounded by these Flex Relay Inputs and Polarity Feed wires that are mentioned in the installation manual, but your post has clarified that they are not used for my install (a 06 F250 diesel). After reading all of this, though, I need some clarification. In reading all the threads, it sounds like hooking up the Accessory Output (Orange H3/3 wire) seems to be necessary to ensure that the heater or A/C starts warming or cooling the interior immediately following remote engine start (depending on how I left the heater & A/C when I last shut down the vehicle). This doesn't make sense to me. Once the vehicle is up and running, aren't all the accessories (radio, heater/AC) functioning as they were last left when shutting down the car? If I did not hook up the Accessory Output wire, are you saying that the vehicle would start and run, but all the other items that normally are powered when the key is turned to the ACCY position would NOT function? Simply need to understand.

Change of subject...

On the primary harness (H1), there are two wires that confuse me: H1/4 (WHITE/ brown) which is the Light Flash Isolation Wire - Pin 87a. How is this wire used and where would I attach it on my 06 F250? The other wire is the H1/11 (White) which is a Parking Light Output wire. Don't understand which of the two would be hooked to the parking lights. Will a relay be required, or will the system allow the vehicle's onboard relay to be used?

Great post gents. Thanks for helping me clear the cobwebs on this stuff. This will be my second install of an alarm system (first one went very well on a 95 F150) and my first install of a remote start system.

-------------
=\
-------
=/

Oh, and a few more questions if I may:

After reading the install manual, I am a bit fuzzy on how to hook up the Remote Start/Turbo Timer (H1/H10) wire. The manual states that a negative pulse will be necessary on this wire for the remote start to activate and deactivate. Well, the Factory Alarm Disarm Output (H2/1) sends a negative pulse anytime the remote start is activated or doors are unlocked with the remote. Since I do not have a factory alarm on this truck, should I simply connect the H2/1 wire to the H1/H10 wire which needs that negative pulse to have the remote start activate and deactivate?

And finally, how does this 2nd Unlock Output (H2/6) wire do its thing and what should I hook it up to. Presently the vehicle has an aftermarket alarm installed which does unlock the drivers door on first unlock command and then the remaining doors when "unlock" is pressed the second time. Is it the alarm or vehicle onboard systems that enable this to work? If I do nothing with this wire, but hook up my door lock and unlock wires on the 3-pin harness. How will my door locks function?

Many thanks for your help

-------------
=\
-------
=/

Final result on the tach, voltage sense, virtual tach, etc....

I had mine up and running great but I didn't have the fuse in for the parking lights to come on. Mine was set up on voltage sense and worked great. Put the fuse in, parking lights worked when remote started, but it only ran for a few seconds. The tach wire is hooked up. I changed the setting to tachometer and tried the tach learn and it wouldnt give me the blue light. Changed the jumper on the box and did the tach learn. BAM! It works like a champ again.

Make sure you hook up the tach wire, change the jumper, do the tach learn. It will work like a charm.

jetblue, IIRC the remote start/turbo timer... I put that wire to a momentary switch on the dash, the other wire off of the switch goes to ground. Before I get out of the truck, I push that button, the remote start takes over and keeps it running, remove the key and go into the store and the truck stays running. Also, you can just push the button and it will start the remote start sequence...