viper 5901 won’t rs on 98 integra
Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Security and Convenience
Forum Discription: Car Alarms, Keyless Entries, Remote Starters, Immobilizer Bypasses, Sensors, Door Locks, Window Modules, Heated Mirrors, Heated Seats, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=116446
Printed Date: May 14, 2024 at 2:11 PM
Topic: viper 5901 won’t rs on 98 integra
Posted By: gpspro
Subject: viper 5901 won’t rs on 98 integra
Date Posted: September 20, 2009 at 7:56 PM
Hello experts,
I'm sure there are tons of remote start issues in this community forum. However, after spending hours of researching and reading, I still couldn't find the answer for what I'm looking for. So I hope that someone out there who has experienced installing Viper 5901’s on 98 integra's could please help.
I did exactly as what it said in the Viper Responder LC Model 5901 Security and Remote Start Installation Guide:
https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/downloads.asp?srch=all&term=viper+5901
Here is how my connections look like:
Remote start input - 5-pin connector:
====================================
1. BLACK/ WHITE [(-) Neutral safety switch input] to EBRAKE wire (@ebrake switch). I don't remember the color because I've already put the console back but there is only 1 wire to the switch (I think it's GREEN/ BLACK).
2. VIOLET/WHITE (Tachometer input wire) to BLUE (ECM @passenger side kick panel, middle 31-pin connector, the BLUE wire comes out from pin 2 if viewed from the wire side of female terminals, this is the crankshaft position sensor wire). I also tried to hook it to one of the injectors uncommon wire (Normally YELLOW/BLACK), so I picked RED - No.2 FUEL INJECTOR @ the ECM 32-pin connector (pin 3 if viewed from the wire side of female terminals).
3. BROWN [(+) brake shutdown wire] to GREEN / WHITE (@Brake Pedal Switch)
4. GRAY (hood pin switch input) to GRAY (Hood Pin)
H3 (Heavy Gauge, 10-pin connector)
==================================
1. PINK (Ignition 1 input/output) to BLACK / YELLOW (Ignition Switch Harness)
2. VIOLET (starter output) to BLACK/ WHITE (Ignition Switch Harness) Starter side
3. GREEN (starter input) to BLACK/ WHITE (Ignition Switch Harness) Ignition switch side
TACH was learnt as per instructions for manual transmissions:
1. Start the vehicle with the key.
2. Within 5 seconds, press and hold the Valet/Program switch.
3. After 3 seconds the LED lights constant when the tach signal is learned.
4. Release the Valet/Program switch.
As well as remote start activation (many attempts have already been done) as per most people recommendation (all doors, trunk and hood closed, start engine, put gear in neutral, pull ebrake, release brake pedal, press the remote start button on the transmitter, shutdown engine, remove key, open then close driver's door, etc.)
So that's what I have but RS still won't work. All I heard from my remote control was a long beep and ERROR on the display. I believe I got 7 flashes which means Manual transmission mode is enabled and not initialized. Unfortunately, the installation guide won’t give you further information on how to fix it.
I also tried the others' recommendations, i.e. leave the key in the ignition switch at different positions, depress the clutch, then try to RS. You know this is not what I wanted to do to RS my car. Just wanted to try to see if I had any issues with my connections or not. None of it works. Well, I'm willing to try everything now if anyone has any more suggestions.
The only thing I haven't tried is to connect the PINK and BLACK wires together at the clutch switch to bypass the clutch. The reason why I didn't try that was because I have talked to a Viper Sales representative before and he told me that for 98 Integra's there are no clutch bypass modules required. And also there is not a single word mentioned anywhere in the installation guide above about this. Other models like 791 XV also did not mention about clutch bypass. So I thought, they appear to be all the same, correct me if I’m wrong.
Any help on how to fix this issue would be greatly appreciated. Please don't tell me to make sure the connections are clean and good.
Replies:
Posted By: t&t tech
Date Posted: September 21, 2009 at 10:47 AM
Does your car require the clutch be depressed to allow starting? Try programming the unit to automatic transmission mode! Also ground that black and white neutral safety wire temporarily whilst performing r/s tests! ------------- COMMIT YOUR WAY TO JEHOVAH AND HE WILL ACT IN YOUR BEHALF.
PSALMS 37:5
Posted By: t&t tech
Date Posted: September 21, 2009 at 10:49 AM
Also have you initialized the manual tranny mode as per the instructions on the install booklet?
-------------
COMMIT YOUR WAY TO JEHOVAH AND HE WILL ACT IN YOUR BEHALF.
PSALMS 37:5
Posted By: gpspro
Date Posted: September 21, 2009 at 10:42 PM
It's manual so yes the clutch needs to be depressed to start.
and yes, it's been programed to be in manual transmission mode (this is the default setting anyway. However, just to make sure, I have reprogramed it again).
Thanks but that doesn't help.
Posted By: gpspro
Date Posted: September 22, 2009 at 7:58 PM
Anyone?
Posted By: t&t tech
Date Posted: September 22, 2009 at 9:15 PM
Well to start with you need a clutch bypass! Otherwise it never will remote start! Secondly i didn't mean if it was programmed to manual tranny i meant if you initialized the sequence described in the booklet! Thirdly here's a test, programme the unit for automatic tranny depress the clutch manually, ensure you're out of gear and initialize remote start with the remote and see what happens! ------------- COMMIT YOUR WAY TO JEHOVAH AND HE WILL ACT IN YOUR BEHALF.
PSALMS 37:5
Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: September 23, 2009 at 1:33 AM
I would personaly reroute those power supplies to either the battery or the engine bay fusebox. The ignition feed's on a 50amp fuse in the engine bay and I've seen these fail on Hondas. Other than that t&t has given you the correct procedure. N.B. Whatever DEI's techs say, if you need to depress the clutch for normal start then you need to bypass the clutch switch. I think you should take your starter feed to the clutch switch output rather than the ignition lead starter wire (BLACK/ white), but check on this site under vehicle wiring, it might need a relay. Also have the steering column cowling removed and see if this vehicle has a transponder immobiliser, no one's mentioned by-passes, I don't think so because that vehicle wasn't sold in Europe until 99. Sorry about the clutch switch but they don't have them in Europe except for small Toyotas.
Posted By: gpspro
Date Posted: September 26, 2009 at 1:41 AM
Can you tell me what the difference is between having the clutch electrically vs physically bypassed? I tried to physically bypass it then pressed the start button on my remote and it did not work. So do you still think I should put in a relay at the clutch switch and bypass it. Oh do you know if I can bypass it somewhere else other than at the clutch switch? I'm not sure if I still have a transponder immobiliser or not but I can find out. I remember I have yanked the old alarm out completely. It was not a factory alarm and I'm not sure what the brand is. Thanks.
Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: September 26, 2009 at 6:42 AM
There should be a switch similar to a brake switch on your clutch. It wil be wired either of the following 2 ways. Neg (ground) in and ground out when clutch is depressed. In this case diode a feed from your stautus ouput wire to the wire that goes to neg when you press the clutch pedal. Or Pos or starter feed (BLACK/ white) in and pos or start out on depressing pedal. If in the second case you get a start signal when pedal depressed and key turned to starter, then that's where you join your starter leads, green and purple from the remote start. I take it normally the vehicle won't start unless you depress the clutch pedal. Sorry I can't be more explicit but we don't have clutch interlocks over here. The other thing I was thinking of was key-sence. There's possibly a wire at the ignition which changes it's polarity when the key is inserted and this needs to be addressed to make the vehicle think a key is in the ignition before starting, not sure if this apllies. I've done loads of late 90s Honda Civics Preludes and Integras and never had any problems.
Posted By: gpspro
Date Posted: September 26, 2009 at 8:52 PM
Seems to be a little confused. Here's the clutch switch circuit for my car.
I unplugged the clutch switch and tried to start the engine with the key with the clutch depressed and I could still start it. Why?
I found several methods of clutch bypass from the following website and I'm not sure which method actually applies to my car:
https://www.velocitymotorsport.com/images/install_notes/146.jpg
https://www.velocitymotorsport.com/images/install_notes/107.jpg
https://www.velocitymotorsport.com/images/install_notes/119.jpg
https://www.velocitymotorsport.com/images/install_notes/120.jpg
I used a Digital Multimeter and measure the voltage at the clutch switch and it turned out all negative with and without clutch depressed.
Posted By: tym1200
Date Posted: September 26, 2009 at 10:11 PM
About the immobilizer, i have a 2000 integra and I think 2000 was the first year the immobilizers were standard. I'm not sure if there was an option for one in 98 though. It should be pretty easy to tell. If it has an immobilizer the engine will just keep cranking and not start when you try to RS without the key in the ignition. If you need an immobilizer look into something along the lines of the DEI 556hw, used it on my 2000 teg and its perfect.
Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: September 27, 2009 at 12:40 AM
It's because you have to break the pink wire. In the clutch left alone position, that pink goes to ground. When pedal is depressed, the circuit is opened enabling the car to be depressed. The simple answer would be to remove that switch completely and see if anything else is affected when the vehicle is running and driving. The correct answer would be to do the following:- status output from R/S to relay 85, ignition via 3amp fuse (use the BLACK / YELLOW from switch to where you joined your R/S Ignition 1 wire), to 86, cut pink from switch to 3o and other side to 87a.
Posted By: KarTuneMan
Date Posted: September 27, 2009 at 12:56 AM
Your picture of the clutch switch was cool.... but! Follow those wires up to the clutch relay in te dash, there you will find a wire the same color as the starter wire. Put your remote start output on THAT wire. I do not know if you need the starter wire on the ign. harness even connected. -------------
Posted By: gpspro
Date Posted: September 27, 2009 at 1:48 AM
Interesting...thanks for your advice KarTuneMan. Before doing what you have just suggested, I have to get back to howie II about the clutch switch as it still doesn't make sense to me. Why did I have to depress the clutch pedal even after the plug that connects to the clutch switch was removed in order to start the engine with the key? If I don't press the clutch pedal, the engine won't start regardless if the clutch switch is connected or not. That makes me believe that there maybe another switch somewhere that also controls the the same circuit???
Posted By: gpspro
Date Posted: September 27, 2009 at 3:03 AM
This is to illustrate what I said above.
Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: September 27, 2009 at 6:22 AM
Follow KTM's instructions, he's THE Honda expert forget about the clutch and go to the BLACK/ white wire he mentions. His word is GOSPEL on Hondas I'm only the BMW man.
Posted By: gpspro
Date Posted: September 28, 2009 at 2:06 AM
Thanks howie II.
Hey KTM, I couldn't find any clutch relay. Did you mean a Starter Cut Relay instead? If so, would you suggest that I connect the Starter Output (H3/4-Violet) to BLACK/ White at the Starter Cut Relay as follows:
So what I should do is to disconnect the Red dot and connect the Violet wire to the BLUE dot as shown in the diagram above, correct?
Posted By: moonliter
Date Posted: September 28, 2009 at 10:42 AM
The red dot & blue dot shown on the diagram is actually the same BLACK/ white wire. You should run the starter output (H3/4- violet) directly to the starter cut relay BLACK/ red wire which is on terminal 3. terminal 4 (blue/black) of the starter cut relay goes to clutch interlock switch then to ground (black). On your car, there should be 2 clutch switches if it comes with a cruise control. That explains why it didn't work b/c you were working on the wrong clutch switch.
Posted By: gpspro
Date Posted: September 29, 2009 at 12:48 AM
Thank you moonliter. Yes, you're right. This car has a cruise control, a clutch switch and a clutch interlock switch. And yes, terminal 4 goes to the clutch interlock switch directly. Terminal 3 actually connects to the BLACK/ White at the starter solenoid. So by connecting the Violet to terminal 3, you are essentially connecting it to the starter solenoid directly. So looks like you've been working on Integra Generation 3 before. Is that all I have to do? and no clutch bypass is needed for my car? Could you kindly double-check my connections (at the start of this post) to see if I missed anything please before I start to reconnect my Violet wire?
Posted By: moonliter
Date Posted: September 30, 2009 at 3:26 AM
I try to attach a pdf file re : 98 Integra starting circuit but the file was too big. If you pm me your email address,
I can send over for you to review. Heavy gauge connector:
H3/6 & 9 to 12 volt constant ---- white wire at the ign sw harness
H3/3 to accessory ---- yellow wire at the ign sw harness
H3/1 to ignitin 1 ---- BLACK / YELLOW at the ign sw harness
H3/4 to starter ---- blue/red bypassing the starter cut relay ( clutch bypass relay if you want to call it )
H3/2, 7 & 8 are not needed as your car doesn't have ignition 2. E- brake & door trigger (-) lt.GREEN/ red must be connected for manual car I believed you had tach connected, hood switch, door lock/unlock wires should be straight forward.
Posted By: KarTuneMan
Date Posted: September 30, 2009 at 11:41 PM
I can't wait to see how this turns out! Please post your results. -------------
Posted By: suzuki7
Date Posted: October 02, 2009 at 12:20 PM
The seven beeps, means it did not see the safety steps needed...Sometimes that unit is fussy. In car with engine running in neutral and brake pedal depressed, then put emergency brake on. The unit must be wired to the emerg brake, and NOT to a full time ground, or it will not work. Then hit start button on remote, it will beep, and you can take foot off of brake and turn key off and remove. Vehicle should still be running, and see you get out....MUST be wired to door switch. While out of vehicle...it should still be running...then shut off with remote. Any door entry cancels next possible rem start for safety.. Make sure emerg brake connection sees ground when brake is on.
-------------
The best way to predict the future is to create it!
Posted By: gpspro
Date Posted: October 03, 2009 at 6:19 PM
Alright, here's the final result. I followed exactly what moonliter has suggested and it worked great now. Thanks a lot for your information, moonliter. However, there seems to be a little issue here. My 2-way remote control won't hold the remote start activation permanently meaning I must activate it again before I can R/S next time. To activate it I have to start the engine with the key, pull the ebrake, release the brake pedal, take the key out and exit the vehicle, etc. I thought I would only need to activate it once. Do you know if Viper 5901's are supposed to work like that by design? If not, do you know if there is a way to leave the R/S activation ON permanently?
Posted By: moonliter
Date Posted: October 03, 2009 at 7:37 PM
I don't think you have any issues here. You have to carry out all those necessary steps for next remote start before you leave the parked vehicle with the engine still running. You have to live with it and there is no way around it for a manual remote starter. See page 28 in your owner manual.
Posted By: gpspro
Date Posted: October 03, 2009 at 8:15 PM
Right, page 28 says that you must set manual transmission up before the next R/S can work but it doesn't say that you have to do every time before you exit the vehicle if you want to do R/S next time again. Since you have confirmed that this is how this R/S works, I guess I have to live with it. I don't know what other people out there think, but I feel it is very annoying.
Thanks.
Posted By: suzuki7
Date Posted: October 03, 2009 at 11:55 PM
The whole reason for the "Procedure" prior to remote starting is Safety. This is a way for the unit to ensure that the vehicle is in fact in neutral. Any door opening cancels it, because then it can not be sure it is in neutral. The only way to by pass it is to set it up as automatic....HOWEVER it is unsafe, and that one time that you leave it in gear and it hurts someone, or goes through your garage door..then, it wasn't worth it.
-------------
The best way to predict the future is to create it!
Posted By: gpspro
Date Posted: October 04, 2009 at 12:48 PM
suzuki7, thanks for your input and I see your point. However, I don't see why this particular R/S system is unsafe like some people thought. If you wire everything correctly as instructed by the manufacturer, and if you also carry out the safety procedures exactly as what it was documented in the installation guide and make sure that you pass all tests prior to give your car to somebody else, you are 100% safe. That said, in my opinion, I think the steps required prior to the next R/S would be unnecessary. I think it's an extra layer of safety/precaution to ensure that your vehicle must be in a ready state for the next R/S, which is good. But I still think it wouldn't be absolutely required.
Posted By: suzuki7
Date Posted: October 04, 2009 at 12:54 PM
The steps are a bit much...as long as the unit sees the door pin signal wjile running that should be enough. So I guess it is too safe, but All I meant was that you could technically set it up as an automatic, because you don't like the steps for rs, but since your car is manual, that makes it unsafe, incase it is in gear one day!...
-------------
The best way to predict the future is to create it!
Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: October 04, 2009 at 1:23 PM
There's a simple and logical answer. Set it up as an auto, go and park downhill on a steep hill on a busy road and leave it in gear with the parking brake on. Then wait for the million dollar lawsuits as the vehicle takes off in gear with no one in it. And yes I've seen it happen (not one of my installs thank goodness, I just won't do it). About as stupid as the idiots who ask for passive arm and lock and window rollup and "no I'll never leave the key in the ignition whilst I step out of the car for a few moments" Right.
Posted By: frayer32
Date Posted: October 10, 2009 at 12:39 PM
Hi, I've got the same problem that you had gpspro. I have a manual trans, i did bypass the clutch sensor. I do all the safety steps to activate RS and when press the lock button to stop the car and activate RS the car stop but the remote give me and error and i got the 7 flashes meaning the safety step havent been done properly... i've try it for at least 20 time the unit can't be that fussy i guess.. I try to put it in automatic mode, the remote start perfectly. i also try to test the hand break and the break sensor when i was in automatic mode and they both turn off the car the door sensor also work well.. so maybe i just miss somthing in the programmation.. If anyone having an idea it will be higly appreciate
Posted By: gpspro
Date Posted: October 13, 2009 at 2:47 AM
frayer32, sure I can help you if you got the same car and RS system like I do. Sounds like you haven't wired it correctly. Show me what you got first.
|