06 silverado service brake system
Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Security and Convenience
Forum Discription: Car Alarms, Keyless Entries, Remote Starters, Immobilizer Bypasses, Sensors, Door Locks, Window Modules, Heated Mirrors, Heated Seats, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=117039
Printed Date: April 23, 2024 at 3:29 AM
Topic: 06 silverado service brake system
Posted By: abadv8
Subject: 06 silverado service brake system
Date Posted: October 17, 2009 at 5:45 PM
Good afternoon all. I just finished an install on an 06 Silverado/Duramax. I am using a Viper 5301 and an XK01 in D2D mode.
Locks work, remote start works.
Remote start is causing a "Service Brake System" message to be displayed in the DIC and a DTC P0650 (Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) Control Circuit Function). I believe the DTC is being thrown due to the low system voltage. There is also a TSB on the "Service Brake System" message that points towards poor grounding/low voltage. So the common theme is low voltage.
I have the second ignition hooked up, but not the second accessory (brown wire in the ignition harness).
I have the WTS light hooked up and diode isolated.
I am using the white tach wire behind the cluster.
Has anyone run into any similar issues, and have any suggestions?
Remote start works great other than the irritating code... FWIW.
Thanks for the help.
Replies:
Posted By: ckeeler
Date Posted: October 17, 2009 at 6:55 PM
how is it that you know this is caused by the remote start?
Posted By: Chris Luongo
Date Posted: October 17, 2009 at 10:10 PM
Regardless of what wires are hooked up and what aren't, the first step will be to put your meter or test light DIRECTLY to the white Ignition 2 wire on the truck, and verify that it gets power during remote start.
Again, not a visual inspection, and not a test at the brain of the remote starter.
Testing directly at the wire in the truck will give you 100% certainty if it's getting Ignition 2 or not.
Posted By: abadv8
Date Posted: October 18, 2009 at 1:12 AM
@ckeeler
The problem did not appear until the RS was installed. It followed immediately.
@Chris
Will do. I am fairly certain that ignition 2 is powered during remote start, but checking that is easy enough and can't hurt. Do you know if the second accessory wire needs to be powered also?
Thanks guys.
Posted By: Mike M2
Date Posted: October 18, 2009 at 7:39 AM
I believe i remember a bulletin on this truck stating ones with 4 wheel antilock must have both accessory wires connected(brown and orange) or the brake service light would trigger...
-------------
Mike M2
Tech Manager
CS Dealer Services
Posted By: abadv8
Date Posted: October 18, 2009 at 10:46 AM
Thanks Mike.
I will check that out as well. I was wondering about the 2nd accessory. In fact, I even asked about it here
https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp~TID~116934~PN~2
You wouldn't happen to know where I could find a copy of that bulletin would you?
Chris,
It looks like the 2nd ignition is good. I pierced the wire with a test light and hit the RS button. The 2nd ignition is powered the whole time.
Also, it looks like my batteries, or at least one of them, are bad.
The truck sat all night and remote started fine this morning. I had the doors open for about 30 minutes with the dome lights on, and the batteries are now dead. I have to believe that if the drain was coming from the RS system, it would have drained the batteries overnight. The truck fired right up this morning at 30 degrees F. But, after having the doors open for 30 minutes with the engine off, there was nothing but clicking (actually on this truck it looks more like there is some sort of disco going on in the instrument cluster).
Guys, thanks again for the help on this.
Posted By: Velocity Motors
Date Posted: October 18, 2009 at 11:23 AM
We had this happen to us last year as well on the same body style truck and diesel as well. The problem was the bypass module was taking up too much bandwidth on the databus wire and causing dummy lights to turn on ( we had more than just the brake system check ). We had iDatalink look into this and they fixed the problem but in the meantime we used just a Passlock bypass ( without door lock interface ) and this worked liked a charm, no dummy lights ). We reinstalled the module after the new firmware and this worked as well. Just a thought for your issue, try another module that has addressed this problem and it should solve your problem.
-------------
Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA
Posted By: abadv8
Date Posted: October 19, 2009 at 8:44 AM
So, what are the odds that calling Xpresskit would yield any results?
Posted By: Velocity Motors
Date Posted: October 19, 2009 at 9:27 AM
50-50. Not sure if they have a firmware for this or not. The one way to figure this out for sure is to get another bypass only module and try it and see if this is the same problem as I had... chances are it is because I've helped quite a few other installer's all over Canada and the US with the same problem or very similiar to this.
-------------
Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA
Posted By: abadv8
Date Posted: October 19, 2009 at 12:30 PM
Any recommendations on a bypass? The GMPKDL? All the research I've don on this has pointed to using an XK01. It's dissappointing that I didn't turn this up earlier. Thank you for your help with this.
Posted By: Chris Luongo
Date Posted: October 20, 2009 at 10:36 AM
There's a lot of disagreement over whether or not it's important to power up the brown, second-accessory wire.
I never power it up, not just to save time, but also to keep the wipers off during remote start. Other installers always hook it up.
At any rate, it wouldn't hurt to connect it if you want to.
I've done literally hundreds of those trucks, mostly with the GMDLBP, but a handful with the XK01 as well. I don't remember those modules giving any trouble.
About the truck's batteries......well, it is nearly four model years old. The batter(ies) might be near the end of their life anyway. Wouldn't be a bad idea to have a mechanic or auto parts store test them for you before winter hits.
The only other possible thing I could think of.....
What remote starter are you using? I wonder just how they have their outputs timed....ignition 1, 2, accessory, and so forth.
If you noticed, the white Ignition 2 wire gets power FIRST, immediately when you move the key forward from the Off position.
The pink Ignition 1 wire gets power LATER, only when the key has moved fully to Run.
Most remote starters power up Ignitions 1 and 2 at exactly the same time.....and I've never had a problem with a GM truck because of this.
I wonder if your remote starter somehow powers up Ignition 2 a little bit late?
Also, I know you've tested the white wire in the truck during remote start....but, I should have mentioned this before: Have you also verified that it maintains power during cranking?
Some remote starters have an "off during crank" or "as accessory" setting for Ignition 2 in their programming menu.....that could get you screwed up if you turned that on by mistake.
Here's something else you could try:
Prepare a jumper wire (preferably fused). (If you have a jumper wire with an old toggle switch, that's even better.)
Using the jumper wire AND the remote starter, try to emulate the truck's factory behavior of powering up the white Ignition 2 wire before the pink:
1: Connect jumper wire from constant power to the white on the truck.
2. Activate remote starter, let it start engine and run.
3. Now, remove jumper wire and let the remote starter run the truck on its own.
4. Repeat this several times......see if it makes the problem go away.
If it does, maybe you could use your remote starter's "ground when running" output and a relay, to power up the Ignition 2 circuit on the truck a little early.
Posted By: xtremej
Date Posted: October 20, 2009 at 11:06 AM
I am guessing you do not do this for a living? Disconnect the "wts light" and program the sytems to a 11-12 second wait to start. Never powered a second accessory in any of these trucks unless they had the stupid quad steer. Replace your batteries.
Posted By: abadv8
Date Posted: October 20, 2009 at 5:44 PM
Correct, I do not do this for a living.
I am a mechanical engineer, professionally speaking. If you ever have any mechanical questions, I can certainly try to answer them.
I have read that the WTS light can cause problems. Do we know what actually causes the problem?
I am going to investigate the timing of the ignition wires. There may be something to that. The system is a Viper 5301, and I believe that the ignition 2 settings are still set to default.
Thanks again for the help.
Posted By: abadv8
Date Posted: October 21, 2009 at 11:48 PM
Chris,
Quick thought here: If ignition 2 is being powered up before ignition 1, could I just swap 1 and 2 at the plug for the remote start module?
I still need to get out and test the timing. I only have one test light, so may need to pick up another (it's too difficult for me to monitor a Fluke and a test light simultaneously).
I've got my batteries out right now, running through a de-sulfate cycle before the extreme cold weather we'll be getting. If no one has tried one of the new style switching battery chargers (usually called smart chargers) they are worth a serious look. I have pulled batteries from salvage yards that cost me $5.00 because they were only good for a core, put them on my charger set to recondition, and had two years of successful operation from them. Technology is amazing.
Anyway, I will try to get a handle on the ignition 1 & 2 timing tomorrow. Just thought I would throw out the switching of the wires idea.
Thanks.
Posted By: abadv8
Date Posted: October 22, 2009 at 12:35 PM
Ok, ignition 1 & 2 are powered up at the same time by the Viper 5301.  I will disconnect the WTS wire next. Will the tach wire cause any issues, or can I leave that hooked up?
Posted By: kgerry
Date Posted: October 22, 2009 at 3:14 PM
tach wire wont cause any issues (certainly not the one you are having)... i have done many of these vehicles (03-07 C/K's) with the 5301 and XK01 and never had any issues.... i prefer the XK01 for these vehicles (running D2D)... i also never power the Brown 2nd Acc....with no issues.....
-------------
Kevin Gerry
Certified Electronics Technician
MECP First Class Installer
Owner/Installer
Classic Car Audio
since 1979
Posted By: abadv8
Date Posted: October 22, 2009 at 3:47 PM
So, is it the WTS wire? I guess we'll find out in a few hours. Are there any basic setup options on the 5301 or the XK01 that I might be glazing over? That'll really suck if the WTS wire is causing the problem, as there is about a 135 degree temperature swing between summer and winter here. I have had the WTS light on for over 30 seconds in the extreme cold.
Posted By: abadv8
Date Posted: October 22, 2009 at 4:34 PM
I would really like to get this figured out before this happens again... 
Posted By: t&t tech
Date Posted: October 22, 2009 at 4:38 PM
What is it?
Posted By: kgerry
Date Posted: October 23, 2009 at 6:08 PM
heck, that's a Spring day in Saskatchewan... try -51C ..... then you know it's winter..... you don't need a wait to start circuit on those trucks... just program your starter for voltage sense / 4 sec crank and you are good to go.... ------------- Kevin Gerry
Certified Electronics Technician
MECP First Class Installer
Owner/Installer
Classic Car Audio
since 1979
Posted By: jim hunter
Date Posted: October 24, 2009 at 11:10 AM
when i used to use tri-logix bypasses, i saw this same error on a couple diesels, but it only lasted until you drove the truck a few feet, i called tri-logix and unfortunately their answer was it was normal with their bypass and that it caused no issue, it was a data mixup, they may have it figured out now with new firmware so i would call them and see what they say,i only seen the issue on diesels
Posted By: abadv8
Date Posted: October 24, 2009 at 7:21 PM
The error clears after about 100 yards of driving. It does not seem to put the truck into limp mode, so I am not going to get too worked up about it. However, it is a little irritating to know that it will be there every time I remote start the truck.
I will contact Tri-Logix (I assume they still make the XK01)and see what they have to tell me.
I am also curious about the heated seats and defrosters. The Viper manual states that you must press the "f" button four times, and then press the remote start button to manually activate the features. I have tried this, and neither seem to be coming on. Any thoughts on that? Is it just too warm to turn them on? It has been in the 30's here recently...
...-51C, no thanks. In fact, I'm thinking the next job I take will be in place that they have never heard of snowblowers. 
Posted By: abadv8
Date Posted: October 29, 2009 at 12:05 PM
Alright, I'm really starting to get irritated with this remote starter install. I now have the issue where if the truck sits for more than two days, the batteries are discharged enough to prevent the truck from starting. wth? I have done my homework on this, and see that I am not alone. I googled "silverado remote start battery", and turned up a ton of information on the symptoms, but very little on the cause or solution. One sight indicated that the BCM may not be going to sleep due to the bypass or OBD-II interface. Theirt solution was to take the truck in to the dealer to "reset" the BCM. Something about taking my truck to people who care far less about it than I do does not sit well with me. I'm usually pretty patient, but this is retarded... I am 100% certain that the issue is due to RS system. I will be recharging the batteries and performing amp draw checks tonight. Does anyone have a contact at Trilogix or DEI that might have heard of this before? Has anyone else experienced this and found a solution? I do appreciate, and very much value your input and advice. Thank you.
Posted By: abadv8
Date Posted: October 29, 2009 at 3:44 PM
Well, I will be running the parisitic drain tests tonight. Does anyone have any recommendations? This one rates a great big "Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, DEI & Trilogix?"
Posted By: profuse007
Date Posted: October 29, 2009 at 3:48 PM
"current" test it through ground. unplug fuses one at a time.
-------------
Houston,TX
"The two most common elements in the universe are H+ and stupidity" (Ellison).
Posted By: Velocity Motors
Date Posted: October 30, 2009 at 7:23 AM
abadv8 wrote:
Well, I will be running the parisitic drain tests tonight. Does anyone have any recommendations? This one rates a great big "Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, DEI & Trilogix?"
Get rid of the Trilogix peice and install an iDatalink module instead. I've seen this before ( like I said in my last post ) and it's obvious ( IMO ) that it's the bypass module that your installing. Just remove the module and do your tests for draw as well as for dummy lights and I assure you that this is the root of all your problems ( at least it was for us when this happened to us ) ------------- Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA
Posted By: abadv8
Date Posted: October 30, 2009 at 11:00 AM
Ok, Looking at the iDatalink units: Would I go with an ADS-DL or an ADS GM? I would still like to control the heated seats and defroster. Does the D2D cable from the Viper RS still work with these units, or will I have to direct wire? Where can I get an iDatalink unit? Thanks
Posted By: profuse007
Date Posted: October 30, 2009 at 11:53 AM
you can purchase it from their site, idatalink.com, preprogrammed for your specific vehicle. well, thats what they say but I use my own USB idatalink to program.
-------------
Houston,TX
"The two most common elements in the universe are H+ and stupidity" (Ellison).
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