cold weather blues , clutch bypass switch

So I have the Viper 5901 installed on a 2009 Mitsubishi Lancer, which was bought back in December. The alarm was installed in March, so this is the first real cold season its been through with me, and being a remote start. I was informed by a shop tech that some Viper dealers do not support installing the remote start on a manual transmission. I am wondering is this because of the risk of it being in gear. If so the alarm has a procedure that if activated it makes it really hard to leave it in gear.

The shop that installed the alarm bypassed the clutch to the point that the car will start without me having to push the clutch in. I have been having problems with it cold starting early in the morning. I have tried it with the remote start, the key, with the clutch pushed the floor, not using the clutch, even allowing the car to roll.

I thought maybe it was the battery, I brought it in, and had it tested, it was bad. Installed it on the car, and solenoid will click, but the engine wont turn over. I can leave the car in the heat for a few hours, go out and it will fire right up.

I and left to wonder, could it be the starter going out? Could it be a sensor somewhere? A friend said switches tend to gum up when in extreme temperature changes, could this be disabling the clutch? I would think me pushing in the clutch would manually close the gate on the switch, and work.

Right now its in the dealership, I just left there. The tech that is working on it, said that he came back from lunch walked out there and it fired right up, and he drove it on the ramps. He said the tests came back fine, and he did not know why it was in. Needless to say he is going to have to wait til morning to troubleshoot it.

Could this be a switch on the clutch or something else?

Sorry for the long post your reply's will be helpful!

--Caley

First of all, your installer bypassed the clutch wrong. It should not start without pushing on the clutch. If I remember correctly, the last standard Mitsu I did required the clutch switch wire to be interrupted ("cut") when remote starting. This should be done with a relay so it only does it when remote starting. He probably just cut it. Who knows what other shortcuts the installer took. I would get it fixed. This could cause an accident if someone else is using the car that doesn't know it is bypassed.

Second, it sounds like a sensor issue. Hopefully the tech is leaving the car outside so it gets cold so the problem reoccurs. If he leaves it inside, he may not see the issue show up.

Hi, thanks for your reply. I am responding to this via my cell phone so i apoligise ahead of time for any mistakes in my grammer or spelling.

Yes the service Mgr made it clear to leave the car outside overnight to reproduce the problem. I would like to add that I did put a brand new battery on the car, so its vitals in the of the day are fine.

So let suppose he did cut the wire, where could I find this wire and what color is it? Also i know there is a relay that is sold what is the part number? Is it as easy as putting the relay in line on the wire?

Let suppose he put a relay, would it inthe fuse box under the hood? If it is the relay or switch getting cold in that fuse box, could I wrap that jox in a cloth to keep of warm at night? Or is that a fire hazard?

Both of which successfully bypass the pre-programmed steps that DEI has installed in the brain to prevent remote starting while in gear. (You are supposed to put it remote start mode hy hitting the button on the remote before exciting the car).

YES MY cais a hazard to anyone who does not know that its bypassed. There have been times its been started in gear, and it sounds wonderul while attempting to start.

I hope it is a sensor, I would not be surprised if it is a cause of one of the techs shortcuts. I do have one more question though. When the tech installed the alarm he left the $60 revenger sound alarm off. He said that he did jot know how to wire it with the alarm... I know i am being jerked around, but if I can get some honwst advice I will finish the job myself.

Some manuals have a neutral switch.
Alas I'm unsure about the Mitsus, but several Isuzus did. They were used for "coast enrichment" or some EPA improvement.

oldspark wrote:

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Some manuals have a neutral switch.
Alas I'm unsure about the Mitsus, but several Isuzus did. They were used for "coast enrichment" or some EPA improvement.

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I did a friend's Evo a couple years back. I looked over the ECU wiring and it did not have a neutral wire. I think it was a 2007.

JWorm] wrote:

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oldspark wrote:

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Some manuals have a neutral switch.
Alas I'm unsure about the Mitsus, but several Isuzus did. They were used for "coast enrichment" or some EPA improvement.

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I did a friend's Evo a couple years back. I looked over the ECU wiring and it did not have a neutral wire. I think it was a 2007.

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So what does this mean for my situation? Can one be created? Or is there an alternative?

There are usually two switches with 2 wires each going to the top of the clutch. One is an input for the cruise control, the other allows the car to start. Look for one of those wires to be cut. You need to add a relay and it gets connected to the remote start.   A SPDT relay has 5 terminals. Attach one side of the cut clutch wire to 87a, the other side to 30. Connect constant 12v (fused) to 86, and the other side to the (-) starter output of the remote start. Its a skinny purple wire.

No need to keep the relay warm. It can live in the cold. lol

caleygoff wrote:

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JWorm] wrote:

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oldspark wrote:

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Some manuals have a neutral switch.
Alas I'm unsure about the Mitsus, but several Isuzus did. They were used for "coast enrichment" or some EPA improvement.

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I did a friend's Evo a couple years back. I looked over the ECU wiring and it did not have a neutral wire. I think it was a 2007.

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So what does this mean for my situation? Can one be created? Or is there an alternative?

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Nothing to worry about

JWorm] wrote:

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There are usually two switches with 2 wires each going to the top of the clutch. One is an input for the cruise control, the other allows the car to start. Look for one of those wires to be cut. You need to add a relay and it gets connected to the remote start.   A SPDT relay has 5 terminals. Attach one side of the cut clutch wire to 87a, the other side to 30. Connect constant 12v (fused) to 86, and the other side to the (-) starter output of the remote start. Its a skinny purple wire.

No need to keep the relay warm. It can live in the cold. lol

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Pol I love your last remark there truely funny. Okay so where do these wires run? You said to the top of the clutch, does that mean the pedal? Or the housing under the car? Or is it in the steering column? Suppose, its under the dash above the pedal, the 12v source what is the best place to pull from? Should pull 12v from a lead already in use, how much power load can be put on one lead? thanks again

The relay will draw about .1 amps.   I would tap into the main power wire between the brain and the 15 amp fuse. You have to go there to get the (-) starter signal anyway.

Its at the top of the clutch pedal...above your left foot.

caleygoff wrote:

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So what does this mean for my situation?

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A neutral switch in a manual is as valid as the park/neutral switch in an auto - ie, if you can remote start an auto, you can remote start a manual.
(And in both cases, check that you are covered by indemnity or insurance should any accident ensue.)

But such switches should be part of the gearbox. Although bar & stick sensors can be made, they add a level of unreliability.

And I'd doubt such aftermarket sensors would be marketed - I could imagine the liabilities being to risky (unless they have inertial sensors and cut-outs etc).

well I def will give it a shot, if I can, I'll take some pictures to just make sure I'm doing the right thing. The car is sitting outside now in the cold so hopefully the sensor will show something

Most remote starts will bypass the CLUTCH, not the gear box. Meaning.... if you exit the vehicle with the remote start in "ready mode" you exit with the engine running, the gear box in neutral.... the unit then monitors the door pins and ebrake. If your windows are left down, and an idiot friend of yours reaches thru and puts the car in gear.... SURPRISE, SURPRISE. Only a vehicle with a neutral safty wire will watch the gear box. (so to speak)

Some cars don't have this wonderful littlle wire.

Bypassing the clutch on your Mitzu is simple. Blk/red @ the clutch switch, connect your remote start output to THIS wire instead of your ign. harness.

The car will NOT start in gear without depressing the clutch.

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okay well I have been on the phone all day with different techs, and even the shop that installed the alarm. He was really nice, and told me to please bring it in and have him look at it. The only thing is the shop is in Dallas and I live in Austin, so its just a little bit out of the way.

Can anyone confirm that there is a clutch bypass programed in the DEI Viper 5901 brain... The shop in Dallas has been telling me that this is the case, and that it isn't bypassed anywhere else permanently elsewhere.. I cannot confirm this as I do not have the vehicle in my possession at the moment.

The dealership left the Lancer out all night, as requested, and they did go out and try to start it, and it would not turn over. The solenoid would click, as if it was trying to activate the starter, but no cigar. So they have been printing out the wiring schematics of the car, and I believe they are going through it wire by wire, to figure the issue out. Who knows they may find this cut wire, or this switch and even tell me about it.

I hope it may be a sensor they come across, but I also hope it is something that they shop has overlooked. I have been studying the diagrams all night, and I have a really good understanding as to what needs to happen in that SPDT relay, but I have to ask, is the N/O side of the relay not used?

My understanding is that one side of the clutch wire is connected to 87a, and the other to the common post 30, while our 12v constant is connect to the power (coil) 86 side of the relay, and the neg (-) remote start sense wire coming from the brain is connected to opposite side of the coil, creating a loop when the brain sends a (-) signal down the wire. Is my understanding correct? I will take some pictures of the clutch, and the wiring job as soon as I get the vehicle back. I am expecting a call saying its your alarm and not the car.

Thanks for all your help!

KarTuneMan wrote:

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Bypassing the clutch on your Mitzu is simple. Blk/red @ the clutch switch, connect your remote start output to THIS wire instead of your ign. harness.

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DEI lists the wire as RED / white on the regular Lancer, and blue/red (in) on the Evo, then it says BLACK/ red (out). Unfortunately, its not a very good description.

From what I remember on Mitsubishi's, the 2 wires going to the clutch are connected when the clutch is released, when you push it in it breaks the connection and allows the car to start. Most car manufacturers use the opposite method. Cutting one of the clutch wires and then trying to start the car (without pushing in the clutch) would show if what I remember is correct. It won't cause anything bad to happen. If it works, go back to my previous post about how to wire the relay. 87 on the relay will not be used. If it doesn't work, then report back.

It doesn't matter which wire you cut, as long as you are on the right switch, and not the cruise control switch. Before doing the above, you need to figure out how the installer wired it originally.

Okay, here is a update... I just got the car back, the dealership went through the car inside and out, flashed the computer and updated the software to a newer version... whatever that means. I had a call from the Service Mgr and he was still just confused. I then mentioned to him that there might be a wire cut under the dash, and he said he looked but did not find one.

Well I pulled the dash apart, and began looking. Sure enough there is a switch on the back of the pedal, with a female harness. At first there was nothing plugged into it, so I started looking and found a red wire hanging in mid air under the dash. The alarm tech had cut the wire, and then pulled the connector from the plug and tucked it away under the dash. Well there are two wires that goto this little harness. There is a BLACK/ red and RED / white wire... The RED / white is actually cut. So I decided to plug the harness back in, and see if the car would start w/o the clutch engaged, and it fired right up. Is this what I am looking for?

It is mildly annoying as the owner of the shop assured me the tech did not cut any wires to override anything. From the looks of things, I beg to differ heh. Thanks for your input!

EDIT: at closer inspection, the tech DID not cut any wires, he spliced the RED / white wire, and added a red wire, and seems he forgot to hook it up. With the switch plugged in the car can still start without pressing the clutch in. Is this normal?

I am not sure if this will help you any in your answers, here is the installation manual for the 5901:
https://www.directeddealers.com/manuals/IG/Viper/N5702V_2008_08web.pdf

Have you joined both ends of the RED / white wire together yet? Once you do (and everything is plugged in) the car should require pushing in the clutch to start it.

Go back to the 7th post (it's by me) in this thread and you have your answer.

JWorm] wrote:

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Have you joined both ends of the RED / white wire together yet? Once you do (and everything is plugged in) the car should require pushing in the clutch to start it.

Go back to the 7th post (it's by me) in this thread and you have your answer.

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That is the big question of the hour. After looking at the job done on the pedal, the RED / white, and BLACK/ red wire run all the way to the harness, its just not plugged in. He spliced into the RED / white wire, but just never hooked it up. With the switch plugged in, the car still starts without being plugged in.

I found that there is a metal switch that is tied to the brain, if I turn it to off, it overrides the remote start to where it must start manually. The clutch is still overridden in this mode too. The alarm is also still active at this point as well. I am going to wire the relay anyways... is the (-) remote start wire, violet or purple and does it need to be diode isolated if its wired to a relay, or only if I wire directly to the car?

(-) starter wire is violet, and a diode is not needed.