car won't unlock while the truck is running
Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Security and Convenience
Forum Discription: Car Alarms, Keyless Entries, Remote Starters, Immobilizer Bypasses, Sensors, Door Locks, Window Modules, Heated Mirrors, Heated Seats, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=118031
Printed Date: July 07, 2025 at 4:55 PM
Topic: car won't unlock while the truck is running
Posted By: fix150d
Subject: car won't unlock while the truck is running
Date Posted: November 26, 2009 at 7:01 PM
I just installed a bulldog security rs82b in a 2002 f150 supercrew. Its just a basic start and stop starter. It has the ability to start with the factory fob. I did not attach the factory alarm disarm wire because i did a test to check if there was an alarm and i dont think there is.
My problem is i have to push lock 3 times to start it. Then i cant unlock it or shut it off because it disables the fob. Is there a way to make this work? Vehicle lock programming ect. Should i have connected this wire for the factory alarm disarm. To the dark green and purple wire if so will this work? Will it make the lock and unlock work or do i have to do something else? Thanks
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Fastcam
Replies:
Posted By: i am an idiot
Date Posted: November 26, 2009 at 7:35 PM
I do not think the factory disarm wire will fix your problem. The keyless entry module does not see a need to work because the vehicle is running. The only solution is to kill switched power from the keyless entry module. Some vehcles this is possible, others are not. If there is a separate keyless entry module, it may be possible to have the GWR wire interrupt that wire with a relay. If the keyless is controlled by the vehicle's comuter, chances are you will not be able to do this.
Posted By: fix150d
Date Posted: November 26, 2009 at 7:45 PM
I believe there is a separate modual for the keyless. White box on the fire wall in drivers compartment? Not sure, I think the computer also controlls it too. Dont really know. So probaby no way?
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Fastcam
Posted By: fix150d
Date Posted: November 26, 2009 at 7:57 PM
So if i can how exactly would I do this? What wires ect to use on the vehicle. The wire on the starter puts out a negative charge. Anyone done one of these before?
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Fastcam
Posted By: i am an idiot
Date Posted: November 26, 2009 at 8:03 PM
Using a volt meter, test voltage on each wire of the module. If you find a wire that goes to 12volts when the key is turned on, and goes to 0 volts when the key is turned off, there is a good chance that might be your wire. Cut that wire somewhere that you will be able to reconnect it if it does not work for you. If this does work for you, wire a relay as follows. 85 to GWR (Ground Output When Running) 86 to a constant 12 volt source. 30 to one end of the wire you cut, The other end of that cut wire connects to 87A
Posted By: fix150d
Date Posted: November 26, 2009 at 8:11 PM
This will allow the locks to continue to work normal? Plus when running? Sorry new to all this all info is greatly appreciated. I will have to check if that is the keyless module.
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Fastcam
Posted By: fix150d
Date Posted: November 27, 2009 at 12:39 AM
The unit I have is a RAP Module. Its a (remote anti theft personality). I believe this is the unit it has three harnesses coming out of it. Does any one have wiring harness diagrams for this? It would be very usefull seeing there is a lot of wires coming out of it. Also has any one done this before? I dont want to mess up the unit and have a problem were vehicle wont lock, unlock or even worse. Disable so it wont run. ------------- Fastcam
Posted By: Chris Luongo
Date Posted: November 27, 2009 at 2:07 AM
I think it's going to be a little less complicated than all that.
Did you power up ALL of the ignition and accessory wires while doing the remote start?
One of the accessory wires should be BLACK/ green, and it will show power with the key in both the ACC and RUN positions, but not in the START position.
Disconnect your remote starter from that accessory wire, and I think the factory Ford keyless will work even while the remote starter is running.
THE GOOD: The wipers and radio will now stay off during remote start. Who wants a radio blasting in the driveway in the morning? And plus, if you left the wipers on when parking, and then they froze overnight....well, that would suck.
THE BAD: Many Fords also use this wire to trigger the air-condiotioning compressor. Your AC might not blow cold during remote start anymore.
Posted By: fix150d
Date Posted: November 27, 2009 at 2:37 AM
Yes I used the BLACK/ green wire as the accessory #2. Thats a easy fix for this problem I will have to check later when there is a little more light out. I dont understand what this wire has to do with the keyless entry though. I guess if I had complete wiring diagram Id know. Anyone have a link or down load of a complete wiring diagram of this vehicle? (2002 F150 supercrew with fob entry) ------------- Fastcam
Posted By: i am an idiot
Date Posted: November 27, 2009 at 6:20 AM
The keyless module will not work if it knows the key is on. The wire that he is telling you not to power is the wire that powers the keyless module. If you do not power that wire, the module does not know the key is on, and the doors will still lock and unlock.
Posted By: Mike M2
Date Posted: November 27, 2009 at 8:16 AM
On these trucks my solution was to cut the ignition wire on the keyless entry module. Back behind the fuse box way up at the top of the firewall is the module with 3 plugs. I don't remember the color but it might have been pink. It is easy to find with a DVM. Cut this wire and the keyless will always work with no side effects...
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Mike M2
Tech Manager
CS Dealer Services
Posted By: fix150d
Date Posted: November 27, 2009 at 8:40 AM
Okay so can I leave this wire powered by the unit? Plus cut it closer to the rap with the rs or am I looking at blowing something? Do I just use the relay as stated before?
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Fastcam
Posted By: fix150d
Date Posted: November 27, 2009 at 8:50 AM
Or just cut it and tape it up? ------------- Fastcam
Posted By: Mike M2
Date Posted: November 27, 2009 at 9:49 AM
Simply cut and tape. You can unplug the 3 plugs and pull them way down to test, makes it much easier...
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Mike M2
Tech Manager
CS Dealer Services
Posted By: fix150d
Date Posted: November 27, 2009 at 10:17 AM
I know just cut and tape, but is there anyway this wire always sees a 12volt charge and when switched in acc. or run switches to negative? Just want to cover every base.
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Fastcam
Posted By: Mike M2
Date Posted: November 27, 2009 at 11:10 AM
No, it's a 12volts ignition wire. It will probably rest at a negative, but go to 12volts when the key is turned on.
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Mike M2
Tech Manager
CS Dealer Services
Posted By: fix150d
Date Posted: November 27, 2009 at 11:14 AM
Okay will go out and test the harnesses. I'll get back with results and wire color. Thanks ------------- Fastcam
Posted By: fix150d
Date Posted: November 27, 2009 at 6:54 PM
Okay I got it wrong there is only two harnesses coming out of the RAP module. I was curious so I unplugged the harness on the right first with the vehicle running then tried the remote. It didn't work. So I plugged it back in. Then unplugged the one on the left and tried the remote. The remote worked. So I tested the wires by back probing them. The wire I found was a black wire with pink stripe. There is two of them so I dont recomend people that are trying this to just cut a BLACK/ pink you need to check which one of them is 12v run and acc. in the left harness that is plugged into module. I cut this wire taped it up leaving enough to reconnect it later if need be. Started the truck and tried the factory fob it works. Tried with the rs and works doors lock and unlock. The only thing I found is that when starting with the rs the mileage on the dash seems to take longer to pop on. Second is that the AC compressor doesnt turn on during rs. I dont really know if the compressor thing is something that happend due to cutting this wire or if it was this way before. Because I never tested it, its cold out where I live, and have been using only the heater. The true test is long term if everything is going to continue to work properly. Have not taken the vehicle for a ride yet. The only con so far is the Ac thing. I figure I will look at that later. Like when it gets hot out 6 months from now or when i get really bored. I figure if this caused the ac not to kick on. There has to be an out put that will turn it on? Is there a place I can get a full wiring diagram online for my vehicle? I figure if I find this wire I could use the out put on the rs through a relay,and diode. So it turns on when rs is in use. Would this work or is my problem else were? ------------- Fastcam
Posted By: t&t tech
Date Posted: November 27, 2009 at 7:17 PM
I haven't read your entire post, but seems you don't have an ignition or accesory wire powered during remote start!
Posted By: fix150d
Date Posted: November 27, 2009 at 7:49 PM
I was sort of thinking the same, but I used the T-harness so I would not have to splice these wires. I will have to check tomorrow if they are connected in the harness right and if so probe the wires for power when the remote is on. I guess I shouldn't just assume that the harness from the company is wired correctly.
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Fastcam
Posted By: fix150d
Date Posted: November 30, 2009 at 10:48 PM
Sorry I didnt write back sooner I got very busy. First I havent been able to check if i have a faulty unit or if the wiring on the T-harness was wrong. I did drive the truck for the first time since I cut the wire, and there was a side effect. The auto lock was disabled, and programming the unit was not an option. Not a major side effect and easy to live with. I can lock my own doors. (Mike M2) or someone else is there another wire that causes no side effects at all or was this the wire? The air conditioning compressor I dont think was a side effect. Because while idling I noticed that it still kicks on when its running with key. Thanks for the info given so far its greatly appreciated.
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Fastcam
Posted By: i am an idiot
Date Posted: November 30, 2009 at 10:57 PM
You can easily get your auto locks back.. it will just take a relay on that wire to reconnect it when the vehicle is not in a remote start situation. 86 to a fused power source. 85 connects to the remote start's GWR wire. The wire you cut connects one end to 30 and the other to 87A.
Posted By: fix150d
Date Posted: November 30, 2009 at 11:07 PM
To verify the GWR wire is ground while running?
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Fastcam
Posted By: fix150d
Date Posted: November 30, 2009 at 11:13 PM
Also I take it that 86 is to a fused constant?
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Fastcam
Posted By: zerepdivad
Date Posted: November 30, 2009 at 11:17 PM
^ always fuse my man.
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A DMM is a beautiful thing.
MECP Advanced Installer Certified.
Posted By: i am an idiot
Date Posted: November 30, 2009 at 11:25 PM
GWR is Ground When Running. 85 to gwr. Vehicle side of the cut wire to 86 and 30. 87A to he end of the wire that goes to the keyless module.
Posted By: fix150d
Date Posted: November 30, 2009 at 11:36 PM
Okay thanks, usally 87a is not use? why 87?
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Fastcam
Posted By: fix150d
Date Posted: November 30, 2009 at 11:51 PM
Which wire is ground while running? The optional bypass or accessory wire or FASD outputwire, its not the wire thats allready grounded right? ------------- Fastcam
Posted By: i am an idiot
Date Posted: December 01, 2009 at 12:00 AM
87A is connected to 30 when the relay is at rest. The relay breaks that connection when there is ground on the GWR wire and power on 86. When both of those criteria are met, it opens the connection so that there is no voltage getting to the module. Relays are usually used to power a device when energized. That would be 87. We are using it to kill power when it is energized. 87A is the one you need for this.
Posted By: fix150d
Date Posted: December 01, 2009 at 12:22 AM
Thanks for clarifying the relay, I am a idiot and thats how I feel after asking some of these questions?
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Fastcam
Posted By: i am an idiot
Date Posted: December 01, 2009 at 7:15 AM
fix150d wrote:
Which wire is ground while running? The optional bypass or accessory wire or FASD outputwire, its not the wire thats allready grounded right?
Sorry, I missed that question. Sorry again because I have no idea which of the devices will contain said wire. It should be on the Remote/Start unit. It is usually used to trigger a relay to power the parking lights. When the truck is remote started, do the parking lights come on? If so, how are they connected to the remote start unit? If your unit has no ground out when armed, but it turns the parking lights on via a positive output, with the use of a diode and an extra relay, we can still make this happen.
Posted By: fix150d
Date Posted: December 01, 2009 at 8:14 AM
Yes the remote start turns the lights on. The unit has a switch to put out positive or negative. I think the yellow with black stripe wire is the wire I need to use though and not the parking lights. This wire states in the manual: Security Bypass Output/ Ignition #3output(-) 200Ma (yellow with black stripe) This yellow with black stripe wire will be used to operate a external security bypass module/ accessorie when required. The yellow with black stripe wire will hold a ground output the entire time the remote starter is activated. Is this the wire? I believe it is am I right or do I still use the parking light output? ------------- Fastcam
Posted By: i am an idiot
Date Posted: December 01, 2009 at 8:25 AM
That would be the wire.
Posted By: fix150d
Date Posted: December 01, 2009 at 8:32 AM
Okay Thanks will get another relay and connect. Wheres the best place to get relays from? Ive been useing Parts Express for all my parts. If I buy in town they cost four times as much.
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Fastcam
Posted By: fix150d
Date Posted: December 02, 2009 at 5:40 PM
Today I was checking the T-harness and I believe it is wired wrong on the bull dogs site it states to connect the gray / YELLOW wire as accessorie wire 1on this site, gray / YELLOW is second ignition. On their site (bulldogs) the RED / black is ignition #2 on here accessory 1. They have the RED / black and the gray / YELLOW wires mixed up. Their T harness must be wired the same way. By looking at the T-harness they also wired The Accessorie and second ingnition wrong. Plus when the wire they spliced into for the second accessorie wire was not. I smelled plastic melting the other day when driving. What if this caused damage to my truck? What can I do? If I looked for the damage where would it be?
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Fastcam
Posted By: i am an idiot
Date Posted: December 02, 2009 at 5:52 PM
The T harness or the wire you got power from are the only 2 places that I can think would be having a problem. Where did you get power for the remote start unit?
Posted By: fix150d
Date Posted: December 02, 2009 at 5:59 PM
The power is included in the T-harness one end plugs into the factory vehicle harness and colum the other end has plugs for the rs. Can I make them liable seeing it was a harness made from them? So I wouldn't have to cut ignition wires.
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Fastcam
Posted By: i am an idiot
Date Posted: December 02, 2009 at 6:22 PM
At each end of the T harness is the only place that I could see having a melting problem. Disconnect both ends of it to make sure the melting is not there.
Posted By: fix150d
Date Posted: December 02, 2009 at 8:24 PM
Already have that out no melting in that. I think maybe it is the starter itself for seeing 12volts on a wire that was not supposed to see any voltage, or the wire the accessorie wire from the starter was spliced into for seeing voltage that it was not intended to see. I will have to check the wire to see weither it is positive or negative and what it powers. If I cant get a wiring diagram on line what is the best manual for my vehicle for wiring diagrams? Wish I could get for free off the internet I dont see paying what I can pay to get a entire service manual for just the diagram I need.
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Fastcam
Posted By: fix150d
Date Posted: December 02, 2009 at 9:49 PM
I've been calling bulldog or Access to comunications which ever its called everyday since early wensday befor Thanks giving. I keep getting a message that they will call me or get back to me with in 24 hours. It is 1 week and 12 hours so far and nothing. I think they know they screwed up and this is them trying to avoid it. It a good thing I dont need my truck for work because its down right now.
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Fastcam
Posted By: fix150d
Date Posted: December 04, 2009 at 1:45 PM
Today I did the testing with a volt meter and I found there were a total of 3 wires wired by bulldog into there own T-harness for my vehicle. The one that was supposed to be powering my accessories went to a wire that was not even connected in the vehicle. Cut all the wires and soldiered them to the correct wires. Reinstalled and now everything works as it should. Well that is after buying a new unit and bringing the old one back. I could not find any burnt wires so I exspected it was the unit although it still started the vehicle the led on it no longer was lit. I unplugged it and erased the memory and when plugging it back in it tried to flash the three times it was supposed to then stay on but only flashed once so I suspect something was fried. Just have to wait for my relay to get here for the auto lock function. I believe it will be here tomorrow. Hopefully cant wait till Im done. Im still calling bulldog and they still have not called me back also left them two emails to there tech support dept. with no response. Thanks for all the help.
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Fastcam
Posted By: fix150d
Date Posted: December 04, 2009 at 3:20 PM
I had a question maybe someone on here can help with. I have a RAP module but when testing if I had an alarm I got no honky, honky. My question is are some of these units just keyless entry without alarm or do they all have alarms and if so where is my Dark GREEN/ purple wire? Ive looked all over in the kick pannel and at the module and the closest I found was a light GREEN/ purple.
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Fastcam
Posted By: Chris Luongo
Date Posted: December 04, 2009 at 5:19 PM
I've never seen an F-Series with a factory alarm, but I think the 2010s have an alarm now.
Even most Navigators don't come with an alarm.
Posted By: fix150d
Date Posted: December 04, 2009 at 6:04 PM
Why do all the wiring charts say to connect to factory dis arm wire darkGREEN/ purple in kick pannel then? Isnt the RAP module the Remote alarm personality?
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Fastcam
Posted By: the12volt
Date Posted: December 04, 2009 at 6:47 PM
lol... RAP = Retained Accessory Power -------------  the12volt • Support the12volt.com
Posted By: fix150d
Date Posted: December 04, 2009 at 10:15 PM
Well I guess Ive been misinformed by other sites. Why the DarkGREEN/ purple wire then?
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Fastcam
Posted By: fix150d
Date Posted: December 04, 2009 at 10:43 PM
The ford site states it is called remote anti-theft personality. That it is also an alarm. How To Disable AutoLocksNote: < style="FONT-WEIGHT: 400; COLOR: green! important; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana, sans-serif; POSITION: static" color=green>Manual transmission vehicles have this feature disabled at the factory. This procedure applies to most newer Ford vehicles, not just < style="FONT-WEIGHT: 400; COLOR: green! important; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana, sans-serif; POSITION: static" color=green>Ford trucks. The enable/disable mode allows the autolock feature to be turned off and on. On manual < style="FONT-WEIGHT: 400; COLOR: green! important; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana, sans-serif; POSITION: static" color=green>transmission vehicles, when replacing the remote anti-theft personality (RAP) module, the autolock feature must be turned off by using the enable/disable mode. The enable/disable mode is entered when the following series of steps is performed: 1. Confirm that the perimeter alarm is disarmed. 2. Close all doors. 3. Confirm that the < style="FONT-WEIGHT: 400; COLOR: green! important; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana, sans-serif; POSITION: static" color=green>ignition switch is in the OFF position. Note: Steps 4 through 8 must be performed within 30 seconds. 4. Turn the ignition switch from OFF to RUN. 5. Press the power door lock UNLOCK button three times. 6. Turn the ignition switch from RUN to OFF. 7. Press the power door lock UNLOCK button three times. 8. Turn the ignition switch from OFF to RUN. 9. Verify that the RAP module chirps the horn. This indicates that the RAP module is now in the enable/disable mode and ready to accept program changes. 10. Press the power door lock UNLOCK button one time to command the RAP module to toggle the autolock/relock feature ON or OFF. 11. Press the power door lock LOCK button once to enter the command. 12. Verify that the vehicle horn chirps one time to signal the RAP module confirmation of the command. There should only be one chirp indicating that the autolock/relock feature has been disabled. If one chirp is heard, followed by a longer honk, the autolock/relock feature has just been enabled. Return to step 10. 13. Turn the ignition switch to the OFF position to exit the enable/disable mode. 14. Verify that the RAP module chirps the horn once to indicate that a feature has been changed. The autolock and the appropriate alarm configuration are turned on at the factory on vehicles with automatic transmissions. Vehicles with manual transmissions have the autolock turned off at the factory. The RAP module returns to the prior setting any time battery power is interrupted. ------------- Fastcam
Posted By: fix150d
Date Posted: December 05, 2009 at 10:41 AM
Well I thought everything was fixed but maybe not. I started truck with starter let it warm-up. Put my key in stepped on brake rs shuts off as its supposed to. Drove to post office. Pushed the start button so it would say warm took my keys out and went inside. Then when I came out I put keys in stepped on brake and rs unit turnned off as supposed to. I drove home turned the truck off went inside. With keys and fobs on the kitchen table and I was in the other room. No one around the keys or fobs at all. About 15minutes pass and I here a truck running in the driveway so I look to see who's here. Nobody the truck started itself and was running. When I went out to check it out. The fimiliar smell of burnt plastic. The led on starter not working anymore. I know three pulses of the unlock wire can start the truck. The doors werent locked and I didnt lock them. What could be causing this? Truck to start on its own and units messing up? Everything seemed to work perfect.
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Fastcam
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