remote start via disposable cell

I did a few searches for this, but was unable to find anything on my specific needs.

I am not searching for a commercial solution, but rather a DIY solution to remote starting my car via cell phone.  The theorized method behind my madness is to use a prepaid cell phone to trigger the remote start via the Remote Start Activation Input on my remote start module.  My understanding is that this wire needs to be put to ground the prescribed number of times (same as the number of times the key fob is pressed) to start the vehicle.

My theory is that I can crack open the prepaid phone, disconnect the vibrate motor and use this portion of the circuit to bring the Remote Start Activation Input to ground.  Problem is the predetermined number of pulses to activate the start sequence, as the vibrate function is undetermined.  If the phone has a "vibrate once" function, then I'm golden.  If not, I'm in for more tinkering.  Some solutions I an thinking of are these:

-Use the phone vibrate function to trigger a relay.  (Still fail if the relay just continues to trigger with each vibrate)

-Use a 555 timer to intercept the vibrate signals and trigger a relay. (Don't know much more about a 555 timer other than what it does.  May not be able to do this.)

I hope there are some people out there smarter than me who can help me figure out if this will be feasable or not.  Any and all help is appreciated, or just general feedback.  Thank you in advance for your help, and thank you for the great forums.  I'm glad I found you!

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I mod stuff...yeah...

https://www.viper.com/smartstart/

I just installed this in my car last night and it is really cool. Much more expensive that what your going for but it may be worth it for all the added features. Iphone is the only phone supported now but it will be coming out soon for blackberry and droid phones.

Just had another idea. If you can successfully get a output from the vibrate buzzer from the phone, set the remote start for two pulse activation then add a relay triggered by ground while running to split the activation wire, that way once the remote start is activated it will ignore any additional pulses from the phone. Good luck.

Depends on what kind of remote starter you have, and how it's programmed.

Some units require multiple pulses, some require a single pulse, and some can be selected by programming.

In any case, your idea sounds like a good one.

You might want to look into pulse timer relays like the DEI 528T or PAC TR-7. Not sure if they might help your project or not but worth looking at. You could probably set up the timer relay to either ignore or create double-pulses as needed.

beegbie wrote:

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https://www.viper.com/smartstart/

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Thank you for the information, but I am fully aware of that system and I am not currently interested in any commercial products.  This is for my work car and is not really NEEDED, but more of a "lets see if I can pull this off" project.

beegbie wrote:

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Just had another idea. If you can successfully get a output from the vibrate buzzer from the phone, set the remote start for two pulse activation then add a relay triggered by ground while running to split the activation wire, that way once the remote start is activated it will ignore any additional pulses from the phone. Good luck

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Not sure if I understand 100% of what you are getting at here, but from what I gather you want me to hook up a relay that will open the circuit when the ingnition current is active so that the remote start will not sense any more pulese from the cell phone?  If so, there are a few problems with that, although it is a promising step towards a solution.

-The remote start has about a 5 second delay from the time the pulses are sensed until it kicks over the starter.  It does, however, turn on the ACCESSORIES during this time, so I may be able to splice into the acessory output grid to open this relay.  That, however, brings us to the next problem....

-Cold Weather, Old Car:  My auto is 12 years old and doesn't always start the first time, especially in cold weather.  If there is no initial start, then it waits 15 seconds and tries again, then 30, then 50.  If the accessories remain on during this time, then your idea has incredible merit; however I need to see if this is what actually happens.  If it turns the accessories off between cycles, then we are screwed.  I do, however, believe that it leaves the accessories on as the manual said something about priming the fuel system between cranks; so we'll see.

Chris Luongo wrote:

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Depends on what kind of remote starter you have, and how it's programmed.

Some units require multiple pulses, some require a single pulse, and some can be selected by programming.

In any case, your idea sounds like a good one.

You might want to look into pulse timer relays like the DEI 528T or PAC TR-7. Not sure if they might help your project or not but worth looking at. You could probably set up the timer relay to either ignore or create double-pulses as needed

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My remote starter is a Directed Electronics "Cheap as hell but works" brand.  Don't have the model # in front of me right now.  I can program my remote start to use 1, 2 or 3 pulses; as it has the flexibility to let one remote start many vehicles with different inputs. 

I don't know what a pulse timer relay, but it the name fits what I need exactly!  I wil definitely Google that and do more research.

All in all, you guys have already put down some solid solutions.  Thank you!  Now all I have to do is wait until it is not 22 degress (F) where I am at and I will get some wiring done.

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I mod stuff...yeah...

"Not sure if I understand 100% of what you are getting at here, but from what I gather you want me to hook up a relay that will open the circuit when the ingnition current is active so that the remote start will not sense any more pulese from the cell phone? If so, there are a few problems with that, although it is a promising step towards a solution.

-The remote start has about a 5 second delay from the time the pulses are sensed until it kicks over the starter. It does, however, turn on the ACCESSORIES during this time, so I may be able to splice into the acessory output grid to open this relay. That, however, brings us to the next problem...."


This is why I told you to use ground while running dei calls it the status output(blue w/white wire). It comes on immediately when the start gets triggered and stays on until the car shuts off. As far as the car not starting, I'm sure that by the time it tries to start again the phone will have stopped ringing by then. That and you should hook up the tach input so the remote start will crank for as long as it needs to start the car. Even a 12 year old car should not take 3-4 tries to start unless there is something wrong with it.

We sell Titan systems and they have a basic start, unlock & starter disable system available. The TT100 is the one that your wanting and it can accept a single or a double pulse to remote start.

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Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA

beegbie wrote:

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This is why I told you to use ground while running dei calls it the status output(blue w/white wire). It comes on immediately when the start gets triggered and stays on until the car shuts off. As far as the car not starting, I'm sure that by the time it tries to start again the phone will have stopped ringing by then. That and you should hook up the tach input so the remote start will crank for as long as it needs to start the car. Even a 12 year old car should not take 3-4 tries to start unless there is something wrong with it.

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Actually, I think I am going to use a setup pretty close to what you put out, but instead use a DPDT relay and use the Accessory current to cut the cell signal.  Everything else you are right on with.  I am just waiting for my relays to come in on order, as I need 1.0v triggered relays as the phone current is way low.  I will post a crude drawing of what I am going to try here in a few.

Thank you beegbie for all your help, and to everyone else that posted up!

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I mod stuff...yeah...

This is a crude diagram of what I am going to accomplish.  The voltage coming from the phone is going to be 1.3 - 1.5v, and very low amperage.  The Remote Start Sense only puts out 0.6v according to some documentation that I found online, si don't think I need any resistors or diodes or anything.  If anyone smarter than me (which is most people on here) can think of anything I need to add to this circuit for convenience, safety, etc.; please let me know.

Also, so I can access the phone easier; I plan to remove the surface mount earphone jack, insulate it from the board and re-glue it down.  Then I will solder the two trigger wires into the jack.  That way I can "plug in" the phone and use it to remote start, or I can remove it to work with the menus or charge it with minutes.

Here is the diagram, sans the headphone plug.

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I mod stuff...yeah...

Why not use a remote?
If you are trying to start the vehicle when you are out of state or the country, or when the possessor isn't aware of it, then I understand your application.
Just make sure you keep the number secret, and don't vibrate on SMS (we get civil emergency SMSs etc here, and several wrong numbers!).

oldspark wrote:

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Why not use a remote?
If you are trying to start the vehicle when you are out of state or the country, or when the possessor isn't aware of it, then I understand your application.

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Actually, that is a very good question.
See, I work at an airport, at night, about a 15 minute shuttle ride from my office to my car, AND I have to spend a few minutes in security both ways. On top of that, I have to park about 100yds away from the security area.

I would like to be able to start my car BEFORE the 15 minute ride out of work. I would use my remote, however, I am literally one mile from the parking lot, and line of sight is out of the question.

Some of the people that I work with are also interested in this if I can get it up and running. The shuttle ride out at 7AM is COLD AS FOCK and a nice toasty car would be very welcome.

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I mod stuff...yeah...

Keep us updated on your project here. I've been trying to do this on my truck for awhile but haven't bothered to order the low voltage relays yet. If it works for you, I'll get going on mine. I plan on using a pager for my project. Got it for free along with the access codes.

I am starting a blog about all the simple projects I do. This is going to be my first entry, then I will update later about all the weird things I have, um, "modified".

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I mod stuff...yeah...

Started my blog. It makes it a lot easier to update information and offers more flexibility.

There is a little more information on there pertaining to the modification of the cell phone, so check it out.

https://davehacks.troublem8ker.com/wordpress/

Check it out. (Hope I'm not violating some forum rules)

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I mod stuff...yeah...

ok not a bad plan, but you may want to measure the voltage coming out of that motor, it may not be enough to trip a relay. Also, i would pull up the trigger wire to 12v through a 10k resistor so that your not getting false triggers.

i can think of a couple more issues with it but im too lazy right now, i'm an electrical engineer so if you have any questions i can prolly figure it out circuit design wise

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Driving a Bagged, Caddied 02 s10

Awesome project! Please bump this thread when you get part 2 on your blog. Otherwise ill forget all about this.

DEI used to, at least, make a programmable timer controller that could start the car X days a week at whatever time you programmed.  It was only $30 or so from memory - if you work a regular schedule that might be an much easier way to go.

As far as your drawings, I think you are putting the cart before the horse.  You need to buy a phone, take it apart, and measure the voltage and configuration you are going to be working with.

If the vibrator motor has a constant ground and a switched positive you will need to know the magnitude of the voltage and purchase either a low current relay with the proper coil voltage or put a transistor between the vibrator motor and the relay.  I would NOT use an electromechanical relay as they generally pull too much current..

If the vibrator motor has a constant voltage and a switched ground (which is more likely) you could possibly tie the ground trigger directly to the unit, assuming your phone and your car are grounded together.  As you already mentioned the start input uses virtually no current (most likely a transistorized input) so it shouldn't damage the phone. 

Until you know how the phone you are using is configured it is impossible to offer many more solid suggestions. 

While you have the phone open, it may be beneficial to see if you can hardwire in to the "END" key - this would allow you to stop the vibrating instead of just breaking the connection.  This would allow you to use the phone to both start and stop the vehicle! 

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Kevin Pierson

meltingplastic wrote:

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ok not a bad plan, but you may want to measure the voltage coming out of that motor, it may not be enough to trip a relay. Also, i would pull up the trigger wire to 12v through a 10k resistor so that your not getting false triggers.

i can think of a couple more issues with it but im too lazy right now, i'm an electrical engineer so if you have any questions i can prolly figure it out circuit design wise

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The voltage coming out of the phone (vibrate motor) is a solid 1.35v. It takes the phone about .3-.5 seconds to reach this voltage and it sustains it throughout the vibrate sequence.

As for pulling up the trigger wire using a 10k resistor...um, I'm kinda retarded and not sure how that would work. Are you telling me I can build voltage by using a resistor? I thought resistors did exactly the opposite? Like I said, a little electrically retarded.

But seriously, you sounds like you have a decent grasp on the concept, and I def need the help, so anything you provide would be muy beneficial!

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I mod stuff...yeah...

KPierson wrote:

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DEI used to, at least, make a programmable timer controller that could start the car X days a week at whatever time you programmed.  It was only $30 or so from memory - if you work a regular schedule that might be an much easier way to go.

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What's the fun in that?

KPierson wrote:

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As far as your drawings, I think you are putting the cart before the horse.  You need to buy a phone, take it apart, and measure the voltage and configuration you are going to be working with.

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Did you read my blog or any of my other posts here? That is the ONLY thing that I have accomplished. Everything else is theory.

KPierson wrote:

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If the vibrator motor has a constant ground and a switched positive you will need to know the magnitude of the voltage and purchase either a low current relay with the proper coil voltage or put a transistor between the vibrator motor and the relay.  I would NOT use an electromechanical relay as they generally pull too much current..

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I plan on using a solid state relay or an optoisolator, as both have the working voltage that I require. Sourcing them is another hurdle, as digikey makes my heaad hurt.

KPierson wrote:

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If the vibrator motor has a constant voltage and a switched ground (which is more likely) you could possibly tie the ground trigger directly to the unit, assuming your phone and your car are grounded together.  As you already mentioned the start input uses virtually no current (most likely a transistorized input) so it shouldn't damage the phone. 

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Tested that already. Didn't work. Need relays. Good suggestion though.

KPierson wrote:

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Until you know how the phone you are using is configured it is impossible to offer many more solid suggestions. 

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Go take a look at the pics. DaveHacks

KPierson wrote:

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While you have the phone open, it may be beneficial to see if you can hardwire in to the "END" key - this would allow you to stop the vibrating instead of just breaking the connection.  This would allow you to use the phone to both start and stop the vehicle! 

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That is an awesome suggestion, but I don't want to screw up the phone. Also, under my current configuration the ACC input would be on for so long that it would simply turn the phone off, as this is what the end key does as well. Working around that would require more electronics and thinking than I want to put forth at this juncture.

All in all, again, you guys are awesome with the suggestions. I really hope I can get this working!

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I mod stuff...yeah...

Still waiting for my order from SparkFun to come in, then I'll start testing the circuit.

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I mod stuff...yeah...

Self-satisfaction...The Airport security might get a little concerned about cell phones and triggers and etc...! : )   They do make 1 mile Remote Starts...!  I swear i read a post about this here already...See if i can find it...!?

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M.E.C.P & First-Class
Go slow and drink lots of water...Procrastinators' Unite...Tomorrow!

No, sorry, I didn't read your blog at the time I posted (I was at work and anything with the word "hack" in it is blocked).

If you have 1.35vdc coming out of the phone all you need is a 2n3904 transistor from radioshack.  It wouldn't hurt to put a 220 ohm resistor in series with the base, ground the emitter (to both the phones ground and the cars ground) and then the collector will go straight to the relay coil with a diode across the coil.

You can use this diagram:

to take the status output from constant to a short pulse.  This could be hooked to the status output so as soon as the remote start activates it sends a short pulse to the "end" button, thus canceling the call.  You could then use the phone to shut the car back off!  You, of course, would have to reverse this diagram to work with your (-) status output - just put the cap and resistor on the postive side

I think finding a way to shut the car off will make it that much better - especially when showing it off to your friends.  It will be cool to see you call your car to start it, but if you have to walk to the car to shut it off you know your friends are going to ask why you can't call it and shut it off!

Definately a fun little project, and it seems like your phone has a lot of powerful little features on it.  It would be cool if you could somehow come up with a way to have it send you a text message when it starts.  :)

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Kevin Pierson

Before a potential value-add reply, firstly a BIG thank-you troublem8ker for answering "why not a remote?". Nice to see a good/valid answer that embarrasses smartR'ses like me. (Is it better feigning humility than praising rookies? (LOL).)
But seriously - I did want to thank you. I didn't think it justified a bump etc. But now, for what it is worth.....


Are people aware of projects like SiliconChip's "SMS Controller Kit"?
It is old (from 2004) and was specific to Nokia 3210, 3310, 5110, and 6110 models (GSM).
And unfortunately I do not know that much about it - I have some SillyChip articles but not those (but I could hunt unless 12Volt or someone gets the online ver$ion).

The kits are available for AUD$58 from Jaycar as per jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=KC5400.
The Silicon Chip articles are at siliconchip.com.au/cms/A_102670/article.html (SMS Controller Part 1) and siliconchip.com.au/cms/A_102994/article.html (Part 2).

Related articles are:
"SMS Controller Add-ons" at https://www.siliconchip.com.au/cms/A_104171/article.html,
"Remote switching with the SMS controller" in https://www.siliconchip.com.au/cms/A_108858/article.html,
"SMS Controller voltage tolerance" in https://www.siliconchip.com.au/cms/A_104371/article.html,
and a likely superseded Notes&Errata in https://www.siliconchip.com.au/cms/A_104440/article.html

Pics of the Kit:
(As per the above link to Jaycar's KC-5400 "SMS Controller Kit")


NB - Pic Permission from Jaycar being sought by OldSpark. Please delete if desired until then, else refer any legal action to OldSpark. (But Jaycar are such a good mob, with excellent kits & products....)

tommy... wrote:

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Self-satisfaction...The Airport security might get a little concerned about cell phones and triggers and etc...! : )   They do make 1 mile Remote Starts...!  I swear i read a post about this here already...See if i can find it...!?

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They shouldn't get too worried with me making a phone call. Also, to spill the beans, I work for UPS in IT support. The facility I work at was, at one time, the largest (somekind) of engineering project in the world (at least that is what they told us). The facility now stands at about 7 million ground floor square feet (just the buildings, not the property) and at some places is almost 4 stories tall. I work nearly the FURTHEST from the parking lot in the back of the facility. I have a co-worker that has one of those one-mile alarms/starters, and he has no luck starting his car until we are about half a mile away. I'll get on Google Maps and see if I can find an overhead of this place.

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I mod stuff...yeah...

Just for fun, here is the Google Maps overhead with all kinds of diagrams of where I work. It has been about 18 degrees at night the last 3 nights! (The shuttle is not heated)



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I mod stuff...yeah...

you can install a scytek 2-way unit and program the 2-way remote to start at a specific time ,then just leave the 2-way remote in the car and it will start at the pre-set time.That is if you know what time you'll be leaving everyday.

I just installed this item two days ago and LOVE IT!

It has a built in quad band  gsm phone with wired external antenna  you just put a prepaid sim in it. o2 wireless is the best because $10 airtime doesnt expire for 90 days and text messages are only 5 cents each. very good unit and programmable via usb cable with their software or by text messages. Only messages from programmed phone #s will be able to start your car etc. I looked all over for something like this and this is the only thing I found that came close. I only use one output to activate my remote start and it works great. The only drawback to this unit aside from the price is that it is shipped from Lithuania and takes about 4 weeks to arrive.

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sorry my previous post I coudnt figure out the links.

Just do a search on ebay for

SMS Pager Home/House/Car/Boat/Moto

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My alarm already has a feature that will start it at the same time everyday.  My wife and I use the car alternately, however.

Also meant to mention, my remote start will shut down automatically after running for 12 minutes.

I am on a CDMA network.  The GSM chip thing sounds like and option.  As far as price, if I get this to work, I will be paying the same for service, and it will cost me maybe $10 in parts.  Also, I would like to do it myself, just for the adventure.

If I get this to work, I will have the options to:  Start my car via call.  Start my car via SMS/Text.  Set up to 4 independent and recurring (if I choose) alarms to start my car.  Set schedules and calendar events to start my car.  Expand on this setup by adding shutdown capability, text back, twitter, whatever!

You guys all have some great suggestions, and the12volt has not disappointed me with it's wealth of help and breadth of knowledge.

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I mod stuff...yeah...

Well, here's an update. I got it working.

That's right, totally and truly. I finally received my breadboard from SparkFun, and hooked up the optoisolator I had on hand and tested away. I was able to get a good tone on my multimeter when the phone rang/vibrated, so I took it out to the car and hooked it up to the Remote Start Accessory Input, and VROOM! It started right up. And just as we though, when left to ring it shut right back down.

Next I took beegbie's idea and hooked a relay inline with one of the 'ringer' wires, and had it trigger when the remote start turned on the Accessories. Called the phone, car started, let it ring, and the car never stopped! It worked perfect.

I called the phone about a half-dozen times, and it worked every time. I set 2-3 alarms, and the car started with every one. Then I set the calendar/scheduler for later that morning, and sure enough about an hour later, VROOM! Car started right up.

If you all want all the details of what I did next, I have them over in my blog, DaveHacks.

The next part, or Part 3 in the blog, will entail getting more appropriate relays and a circuit board and making a final version to actually install in the car. Please reply here on in the blog if you have any questions or suggestions.

Thank you all, and major props to beegbie for solving the headscratcher!

-Dave

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I mod stuff...yeah...

Happy to hear it's up and running.

True.dat!

I actually received my order from Parts-Express yesterday, about 24 hours after I placed the order. That is AWESOME!

I have also soldered up the finished project, albeit with the opto instead of the relay, as those are in my Digi-Key order and it has not arrived yet. I also have a generic 12v charger on order from Monoprice.

All in all, counting the phone and minutes, the project is costing me about $50. I shouldn't have to spend but maybe $60 in minutes the rest of the year. Sounds like a winner to me, if it lasts.


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I mod stuff...yeah...

Well, part three is up, so I figured I'd bump this in case anyone wanted to read it.

Looks like I probably won't renew my minutes with Virgin Mobile and just use the phone to set calendar events to start the car.

https://davehacks.troublem8ker.com/wordpress/?p=99

Thank you all, and please leave feedback on what you think! (Here or the Blog)

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I mod stuff...yeah...

FYI on most phones you can set them to only gets calls from caller ID phone #'s that are in your phone book in the phone. Any other calls go directly to voice mail.

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Joe Foe from Buffalo

This is true, thanks Joe!

Also, I was just featured on Hack A Day, Yay!

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I mod stuff...yeah...

FYI Related but not related. I spoke with
Crime Stopper tech support today and was told they are going to have a alarm /remote start that will can use a sim card. They we will be able to call our cars or our cars will be able to call us. The ETA will not be for a couple months at best though.

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Joe Foe from Buffalo

https://www.engadget.com/2010/01/20/the-diy-10-prepaid-cellphone-remote-car-starter/

Can someone tell me how to do this, but something a little easier to understand? The diagram on the first page is kinda confusing to me. I basically need a diagram or something that details how to hook up the relay.

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This is all really good treading and good luck with future projects. Some thoughts though.
DEI have marketed a product in the UK called CallGuard for the last 3 years. It does all of the above plus monitoring the alarm and acting as a location device.
All European and Chinese sourced product will use a SIM card, i.e. GSM not CDMA so make sure you can receive TMobile or At&T where the car is!
Also make sure it's a quad band nothing less because GSM in the US is 800/1900, in Europe it's 900/1800Mhz.
Lastly I'd be surprised if you were able to use an 02 SIM card unless paying roaming charges, it's a UK/Spanish owned network and works great here.
On a geeky note they showed an NCIS episode (not LA I hate that show)where they tracked a UK registered cell phone. They got the country code right, tags 44 on the front of my number as it shows on the receiving caller ID when I'm outside the UK) but their researchers never realised that all cells in the UK start with 07!

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.