viper 5101 cranks but no start 06 accord
Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Security and Convenience
Forum Discription: Car Alarms, Keyless Entries, Remote Starters, Immobilizer Bypasses, Sensors, Door Locks, Window Modules, Heated Mirrors, Heated Seats, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=119514
Printed Date: April 29, 2024 at 1:02 PM
Topic: viper 5101 cranks but no start 06 accord
Posted By: earz
Subject: viper 5101 cranks but no start 06 accord
Date Posted: January 21, 2010 at 10:46 AM
I just got off the phone with Directed. I'm not very happy right now - they refused to answer any questions since I installed this myself. 2006 Accord sedan, V6, auto Viper 5101 remote start Canmax400 with HON4 firmware t-harness from bulldog security My install is as follows: H3 harness Solder RED / WHITE in harness PIN 2 to RED wire.
Solder RED / BLACK in harness PIN 9 to RED wire.
Solder RED wire PIN 6 to the white wire in t-harness. Solder PINK wire PIN 1 to the BLACK / YELLOW wire t-harness.
Solder ORANGE wire PIN 3 to the BLACK/ Red in t-harness.
Solder PINK/WHITE wire PIN 7 to the WHITE/ Red wire in t-harness.
Solder VIOLET wire PIN 4 to starter wire BLACK/ WHITE
PINK/BLACK wire PIN 8 is not used. Unplug ignition switch (large reddish/brown connector with large wires) under the steering column. Plug t-harness inline. Remote Start 5 Pin Connector:
Black White wire PIN 1 to ground in car. From the H1 Harness
Connect the red wire to a 12 volt source. I used the same 12 Volt source as above so the red wire from the 8 pin harness also has this wire connected to it.
Connect the black wire to a ground source. I used the same ground as the 5 wire harness above.
FOR THE CANMAX
4 wires from the 20 pin harness.
Behind the key cylinder is a white 7 pin connector for the immobilizer.
Pin 1 of this harness is the BROWN / yellow wire. (count from there)
Connect the CANMAX pin 14 VIOLET/WHITE wire to PIN 2 on the car using a snap type connector. (RED / BLUE)
Cut the PIN 5 wire on the car in middle. (Manual says its Blue/Orange)
Connect CANMAX pin 16 GRAY to the key side of the wire cut above
Connect CANMAX pin 20 GRAY/BLACK to the car side of wire cut. Connect CANMAX pin 11 GREEN to the SINGLE CAN DATA wire in the driver's kick panel.
I skipped the horn and parking lights wires. I also didn't do the hood pin because the CANMAX says that should work through data2data but I don't think it does.
I programmed it for Automatic mode (menu 1/item 1/option 2) and left all other settings to default. I tested all functions and all worked. I had a few instances where it would crank and crank when rs, but never actually start. I would cancel it with the remote then use the key to start it and it would fire right up. I thought maybe it was just a weak battery due to messing with it and having the door open for so long, so I drove it around a while to charge the battery up. I tried to rs again and it fired up fine. The next morning it fired up fine for my wife, but after she got off work, it just cranked and cranked again. That same afternoon, I took it to the dealership to have the radio unlocked (I didn't know the code) and they unhooked the battery. Would that have erased the virtual tach learn? I redid the virtual tach learning and it seemed to help for a day or so. Now it's back to cranking, cranking, cranking, no start. It'll reset itself and try again. It sounds like it's cranking more than enough time to start, compared to starting it with the key in the ignition. If you drive it for a bit (~5-10 miles), shut it off and try to remote start it, it starts fine. I'm just afraid that it'll wear the battery down from all the cranking. Keep in mind, here lately, outside temps have been 10ºF-40ºF. Any suggestions on what to do? Change the crank time? I noticed today that the Canmax400 has a tach output. Should I change the Engine checking mode (Menu3/item2) to tachometer instead of virtual tach? I assume I would not need to connect any more wires for this. Thanks in advance. My wife really wants to be able to go out to a warm car in the mornings.
Replies:
Posted By: flobee4
Date Posted: January 21, 2010 at 12:31 PM
I would just run the Tach wire and be done with. It is right inside the car on the passenger side of the Center Console. There is a removable panel held in by a plastic Phillips head screw towards the front passenger side of the center console. Once you remove the panel the ECM is under the carpet just alittle bit more forward than the panel you just removed. Roll back the carpet to see the connectors. I just did a 4 Cyc. and the tach was blue/red in the upper right most connector bottom row, next to a blue/white. I unplugged it, pulled it towards me and cut off enough of the gray tape to make my connection. Here's the info for both the 4 cyc. and 6:
Tachometer blue/red or blue ac ECM/PCM
The ECM/PCM is on the front of the transmission tunnel. The connectors are on the passenger side. On the 4 cylinder models the tach wire is in the white 31 pin connector E, pin 25. On the 6 cylinder models it is in the gray connector A, pin 23. Can also go to any ignition coil and use the wire that is NOT BLACK/ white or black. Can also go to any fuel injector and use the wire that is NOT yellow/black.
Posted By: flobee4
Date Posted: January 21, 2010 at 12:45 PM
One more thing, While the car is cranking and cranking and not actually starting. You need to look at the Cluster for a "green key light" flashing. If its flashing while cranking and cranking, that means the bypass is your problem. Honda's will crank and crank if it there is a bypass problem. Its easy to see if thats the problem if the green key light is flashing during crank. If the bypass was working properly the light would be off during cranking. I would get rid of that "Tap" on the RED / blue date wire and strip back and connect the CanMAX violet/white wire directly to the RED / blue and solder it.
Goodluck,
Frank
Posted By: earz
Date Posted: January 21, 2010 at 12:56 PM
Hey thanks. I appreciate it. I'll check for the flashing key while cranking and replace the wire tap with some solder.
https://www.xpresskit.com/DocumentDownload.aspx?documentid=1085&productid=81&firmwareid=-1
looking at the manual. Page 2 says it had a tach output on the canmax. Will I still need to find the tach wire?
Posted By: flobee4
Date Posted: January 21, 2010 at 1:48 PM
Some Remote starter brands will not learn the Tach outputs from data modules. If you connect it and your remote start learns it and functions good, then use the one on the CanMax. But, The cars Tach wire is sooo easy to get to on the passengers side and that will definity work.
P.S. I read that you have the 6 Cyc. Accord so your tach wire will be in a gray plug at the same ECM on the passengers side just like I described. But for me, the 4cyc. location was in a white plug....
Frank
Posted By: earz
Date Posted: January 21, 2010 at 3:43 PM
Thanks frank. You seem to be very knowledgeable on the accords.
Any idea on the best way to hook up the rear defrost to the remote start?
The 5101 has a Blue/white (-) 200ma 2nd status, rear defogger output wire. Do you happen to know the location and color of wire I need to hook this to?
Is this the best and easiest way to accomplish this?
I've read several things about finding the wire that runs to the rear defogger installing a relay and have the RS unit activate the relay, and then some about connecting directly to the back of the switch, but everything I've read has not been very definate. Any suggestions on this?
How ever I hook it up, I'd also like (if possible) for the switch indicator to still light up to alert me that it's on once I'm driving so I remember to turn it off when not needed.
Posted By: earz
Date Posted: January 21, 2010 at 5:58 PM
Well my wife sat in her car and tried it. It cranked and cranked but never started. The green key light did not come on. She cancelled the start with the remote and stuck her key in the ignition. The green key started flashing. She tried to remote with the key in the ignition and it started right up.
It's definately something to do with the bypass. I'm going to tear it back apart and make a good solder connections from the canmax to the car and try it again.
I'll try the tach learn procedure as well.
If you've got any advice of the rear defogger thing let me know so I can try to knock it all out at once.
Posted By: flobee4
Date Posted: January 21, 2010 at 6:43 PM
I hardly ever do defrost wires on cars. But, I did a quick search for you and found the info on this site, it applies to your car also.
Here you go
Frank
Posted By: earz
Date Posted: January 27, 2010 at 7:45 PM
I got my connections soldered up. I also found the yellow/black wire for the rear defrost and tapped (soldered) into it, but I'm not sure if it's working (defrost that is). There were 2 settings on the RS unit. Latched and pulsed. Which do I need? I've got it on latched right now but haven't had a chance to test to see if it's working.
The RS has been working ok. I reprogrammed my canmax400 as well. I tried to learn the tach via the canmax but had no luck. I ran the tach input wire to the ECM area but was unsure of which wire to tap into. Frank said blue/red or blue wire, pin 23 on the gray plug. My pin 23 is empty!(see pic) which wire is correct for tach signal?
Posted By: JWorm
Date Posted: January 27, 2010 at 8:39 PM
Are you just hooking up wires because the colors match, or are you using a digital multimeter to verify your connections?
Its been a couple years since I have done a 2003-07 Accord, but from what I remember:
The tach wire will read about 1 volt AC when at idle. If you rev the engine up it will increase to about 6v AC at driving RPM's. With the engine off, the tach wire should be about 0v.
Rear defrost. Again....meter the wire. You need to mimic the factory circuit.
If you use the wire listed in the post below by bbtaco, it is a latched output:
NOT MY INFO
I think the defroster wiring in the 03 model may be the same as the 06. This is for an 06 EX(without auto climate control) or LX. While lying on your back under the drivers side dash, look at the very top area under the dash for a 20 pin brown connector. At pin #6 there is a small yellow/black wire that goes to the rear defogger. This wire can be activated by a timed (-) output from your rs. I have my wifes Accord wired like this and it works fine. Check all wiring with a DMM.
Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: January 28, 2010 at 3:31 AM
Thanks for that last post, Jeremy it appears our friend is joining to wires based on given colours rather than actual testing. My attitude on seeing that plug would be to test all starting with the blue red.
Joining without testing = very very expensive.
N.B. Set your DMM to 20VAC not DC.
Posted By: earz
Date Posted: January 28, 2010 at 7:56 AM
hey guys, thanks for the comments howie - I read your post "Rookies and all needing advise". I have read everything I could find on my particular application. Everything I have read, including wiring charts for those years ahead and behind, state that the tach wire for the V6 is in the gray plug, pin 23. I posted the picture to show that my pin 23 was empty and was hoping someone had a little insight on it. I have tested all my connections prior to making them because I'm aware of the damages that can result from not doing so. My questions have been answered. As of now, the virtual tach setting on the 5101 seems to be performing well, despite the very cold weather. I will continue running it this way, unless I start having problems with it. [IMG]https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v230/earz_cd/plug.jpg[/IMG]
Posted By: earz
Date Posted: January 28, 2010 at 7:58 AM
sorry, that pic didn't seem to work 
Posted By: earz
Date Posted: January 29, 2010 at 3:09 AM
Not being satisfied with not knowing, I went to my local library and used their resources. They have access to Mitchells online repair guides. It's a very complete and extensive database. The wiring diagrams and component locations are provided courtesy of American Honda Motor Co. I printed what I needed, and have attached them in form a .pdf file. (I am not trying to distribute copyrighted material, these are merely for reference - I got this material from the reference section of my library) Every wiring guide that I've found for the 2006 Accord (including a year before and after) say to get tach signal either from the ignition coil (choose wire that is not black or BLACK/ white) or from the PCM (On the 4 cylinder models the tach wire is in the white 31 pin connector E, pin 25. On the 6 cylinder models it is in the gray connector A, pin 23). If you look at the first image (click first link) you will notice that the gray connector is in fact connector A. Then you go on to look at the wiring diagram (in the pdf). Page 4 shows the coils in the lower right corner. If you trace the wires (any that aren't black or BLACK/ white) back to the PCM (shown on page 5), you will notice that they go to pins 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 of connector E (the white 31 pin connector). Hmmmm. No wonder I couldn't find the correct wire. BTW - connector A is shown on page 1 of the pdf file https://www.4shared.com/file/210313211/f260a941/pcm.html https://www.4shared.com/file/210312720/103d6f9a/PCM_wiring_diagram.html I also did some checking on the rear defogger wire. I had to search many pages of the manual, but I found it. The yellow/black wire described by bbtaco bbtaco wrote:
I think the defroster wiring in the 03 model may be the same as the 06. This is for an 06 EX(without auto climate control) or LX. While lying on your back under the drivers side dash, look at the very top area under the dash for a 20 pin brown connector. At pin #6 there is a small yellow/black wire that goes to the rear defogger. This wire can be activated by a timed (-) output from your rs. I have my wifes Accord wired like this and it works fine. Check all wiring with a DMM.
is the correct wire. The 20 pin brown connector he mentions is not shown in the diagram below, but it is a junction of the lower left dash harness and the upper engine harness.
The connector in question is C401 and this is the only yellow/black wire in that connector. The yellow black wire comes from the relay (under the hood), goes through this connector, and goes to the rear defogger switch in the audio/hvac unit. The switch itself is a DPST switch that completes the circuit to ground to light the LED in the switch and to activate the relay. https://www.4shared.com/file/210313300/9dbec2a1/rear_defogger_wiring.html I'm merely posting this to close this topic - although you can reply if you like. I hate running across a question on a forum that I'd like to know the answer to and it never gets updated or answered. Thanks for reading!
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