air bag and remote start
Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Security and Convenience
Forum Discription: Car Alarms, Keyless Entries, Remote Starters, Immobilizer Bypasses, Sensors, Door Locks, Window Modules, Heated Mirrors, Heated Seats, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=119768
Printed Date: May 30, 2024 at 1:11 AM
Topic: air bag and remote start
Posted By: 92ss wagon
Subject: air bag and remote start
Date Posted: January 30, 2010 at 10:20 PM
I have a 1992 Caprice Wagon with an air ride system on it. I recently purchased this remote kit to allow me to remotely control the air ride system: https://www.avsontheweb.com/product.php?productid=1532&cat=500&page=1 It shows it has 8 negative outputs on it. I am alittle confused by this. I printed wiring information for my car off this site. I want the remote to also control the door locks for keyless entry and also to remote start it. I am confused on the "negative"outputs on the above remote system I bought. How does it work?? Do I just connect the color coded wires to the "brain" of the remote?Thanks
Replies:
Posted By: x1le
Date Posted: January 30, 2010 at 10:32 PM
All a negative output is is a wire that will send a ground when activated. So when you push the button, it will pulse a ground. This will only work if your door locks, air ride, and whatever else you want need a negative trigger. If positive, you'll need a relay to convert the polarity (or there might be a way to do it without one listed in the manual) I'm not familiar with avs products. Judging by looking at the product info, this is not a remote starter, though.
Posted By: 92ss wagon
Date Posted: January 30, 2010 at 11:23 PM
thanks for the response. The air ride part is actually already pre-wired into the controller. I hooked up the 2 wires and it works perfectly. I guess I'll have to use relays to reverse the polarity? And your correct in the remote start, all the manual states is that I have to use relays less than 500ma to control the remote start. Still alittle confused though.
Posted By: x1le
Date Posted: January 31, 2010 at 9:16 AM
after looking at your cars wiring diagram, yes you'll need to use relays to convert the polarity (again, unless there's an alternate way stated in the manual) you'd wire it like this 85 - negative output from avs module 86 - 12v 87 - 12v 30 - lock wire
Posted By: 92ss wagon
Date Posted: January 31, 2010 at 7:41 PM
Thanks for the help I appreciate it. been reading all day and have learned alot. BUT.......I went out and for about 2 hours spent lookin at the wires under the dash. I came across a box says VALET 551R. There were 2 relays taped to this box and within 6inches there was another set of 4 relays screwed under the upper dash! Very nice install if I might add. I am downloading the manual for the Valet 551R right now, but the obvious question is there an easy way to make this work with the AVS controller? I'm hoping I can just use the AVS brain and remotes and tap into the car starter/door lock interface.(551R) what I found in the car:https://www.directed.com/guides/manuals/ig/valet/N551R.pdf the remote system I want to make work with above: https://www.avsontheweb.com/product.php?productid=1532&cat=500&page=1 THANK YOU to anyone willing to help. I am grateful.
Posted By: Chris Luongo
Date Posted: January 31, 2010 at 9:02 PM
Wow, so you have a remote starter that's already installed, and this other system you've put in.....that's a good start.
That 551R has an input so you can activate it without having the Valet brand remote for it.
Also, the 551R has outputs to control the Caprice's door locks. The previous installer may or may not have hooked them up to the car; some installers charge extra for this, and the original customer may not have paid for it.
The lock and unlock outputs from the 551R only make a negative signal, and therefore the installer (if he connected locks) would have had to install two relays to control the car's positive-trigger locks.....if they're there, you can take advantage of them.
If you're able, do the following two things:
Afterward, post back with results for #1 and #2.
1. On the 551R there's a WHITE/ blue "activation input" wire. It requires (depending on how it was programmed) either a single, double, or triple pulse, and the remote starter will activate. (Default is two pulses.)
So, get yourself a piece of scrap wire, connect one end to chassis ground in the car.
Touch your jumper wire to the 551R's WHITE/ blue wire for a moment, take it away, touch it again, and take it away again. Did the car remote start and run successfully? If so.....awesome! Hit the brake pedal to shut it back down.
If a double pulse didn't work as described above, try again, but experiment with pulsing the WHITE/ blue only one time, or three times.
P.S. If you see any kind of small toggle switch mounted anywhere under the dash, set it to the "on" position, otherwise the remote starter won't work.
P.P.S. The remote starter may have had a hood safety switch installed. If so, it'll only work with the hood closed.
2. Look again at the 551R, and there's a white, 3-pin plug. There should be a green wire, an empty pin, and a blue wire. (Or, the center pin might be populated with a red wire instead of being empty.)
Anyway, take that same ground jumper wire you had, and touch it to the green wire....did the car lock? Now touch it to the blue wire...did the car unlock?
If the 3-pin plug is empty and not connected, then you can be pretty sure that the original installation didn't include keyless entry, and you'll need to add your own relays as described in the other posts.
P.S. Keep a window open during these tests so you can't get yourself locked out of the car.
Posted By: monty_77
Date Posted: January 31, 2010 at 9:11 PM
with the manual you found, you should be able to use one of the negative outputs on the avs to turn on the remote start through the blue/white
h1/2 blue/white activation input
you might want to reprogram it for 2 pulse activation on the remote start to prevent accidental starts.
Posted By: 92ss wagon
Date Posted: January 31, 2010 at 10:19 PM
You guys are amazing and I appreciate you taking the time to help a newbie! It actually gets better(lol) There was actually a remote on a wire tie under the dash, a spare I am assuming. Just ran to Wal-Mart and grabbed a battery for it. I reset the little switch under the dash as the manual stated. BOOM! The doors lock and unlock and it remote starts! I never got a remote with it when I bought it so I'm pretty amazed at my find. So.....now I need to install the AVS system so that the above and the AVS work off the same AVS remote. Do I just follow the steps that you provided above?I haven't began to put the AVS in yet so I'll wait for suggestions so I know I'm doing it right. Thanks again I am extremely grateful. Heading back out to the garage now. I'll check back in the morning.
Posted By: 92ss wagon
Date Posted: February 01, 2010 at 10:06 PM
Chris Luongo wrote:
If you're able, do the following two things:
Afterward, post back with results for #1 and #2.
1. On the 551R there's a WHITE/ blue "activation input" wire. It requires (depending on how it was programmed) either a single, double, or triple pulse, and the remote starter will activate. (Default is two pulses.)
So, get yourself a piece of scrap wire, connect one end to chassis ground in the car.
Touch your jumper wire to the 551R's WHITE/ blue wire for a moment, take it away, touch it again, and take it away again. Did the car remote start and run successfully? If so.....awesome! Hit the brake pedal to shut it back down.
If a double pulse didn't work as described above, try again, but experiment with pulsing the WHITE/ blue only one time, or three times.
P.S. If you see any kind of small toggle switch mounted anywhere under the dash, set it to the "on" position, otherwise the remote starter won't work.
P.P.S. The remote starter may have had a hood safety switch installed. If so, it'll only work with the hood closed.
2. Look again at the 551R, and there's a white, 3-pin plug. There should be a green wire, an empty pin, and a blue wire. (Or, the center pin might be populated with a red wire instead of being empty.)
Anyway, take that same ground jumper wire you had, and touch it to the green wire....did the car lock? Now touch it to the blue wire...did the car unlock?
If the 3-pin plug is empty and not connected, then you can be pretty sure that the original installation didn't include keyless entry, and you'll need to add your own relays as described in the other posts.
P.S. Keep a window open during these tests so you can't get yourself locked out of the car.
Well, I gave it a shot and here are my results: Result #1-there isn't a blue/white wire on the plug!Kinda lost on this one??? Result #2-this plug is actually 5 wires(black,white,dark green, blue and light green) When I touched the ground to the dark green it locks,. When I touch it to the blue it unlocks! So I have these figured out. I just run the wires off the AVS unit to these for the lock/unlock correct since they are already negative?? Here is the information off the Valet 551R box,. It DOES NOT match the schematic I got off their website for some reason 2 Pin Program: grey and black wire Blue 6 Pin main: light green(-) FAC SEC Disarm output......(NOT USED) Blue(-) Unlock output Dark Green(-)Lock output White(-) Park Light Output Black(-) Ground 6 Pin Shutdown: Blue(-) Statu/second re-arm output.........(NOT USED) Blue/Black(-) Ignition 2 output.........(NOT USED) Grey(-) Shutdown............(NOT USED) Brown(+) Shutdown White-Tach input BLACK/ White(-)Neutral Safety Input 5 pin plug: red, yellow, pink, orange,purple(in that order) Any idea where I go from here for the remote start?Thanks again I appreciate it
Posted By: 92ss wagon
Date Posted: February 02, 2010 at 9:26 PM
I know i'm missing something simple can anyone help me?
Posted By: x1le
Date Posted: February 02, 2010 at 9:41 PM
I would re-check your harness for the WHITE/ blue wire. If it is electrical taped up, cut the tape all the way down to the plug. A lot of times people will cut and stagger the wires they aren't using. Others will go as far as de-pinning the harness of unused wires. Hopefully this isn't the case in your vehicle.
Posted By: 92ss wagon
Date Posted: February 03, 2010 at 12:55 PM
I've not only checked but rechecked.(lol) I have all of the tape off and can see every wire! No blue & white anywhere. like I said the wiring diagram on the DEI site varies from what mine actually is. Can anyone help?? I know it's gottaa be something simple but dont wanna touch wires and chance ruining it. Thanks
Posted By: 92ss wagon
Date Posted: February 03, 2010 at 1:21 PM
Well I just spend 1 hour on phone with DEI.(horribly rude people) They said the model I have is an ealry unit and doesnt have that input Anyone have an idea?? Or know of what I can buy to get me going?
Posted By: monty_77
Date Posted: February 03, 2010 at 3:58 PM
sure you could open the remote and do some soldering in there to make it work and leave the remote under the dash
but on once in a while you will have to chance the batteries
Posted By: 92ss wagon
Date Posted: February 03, 2010 at 4:23 PM
monty_77 wrote:
sure you could open the remote and do some soldering in there to make it work and leave the remote under the dash
but on once in a while you will have to chance the batteries
not sure I follow you
Posted By: monty_77
Date Posted: February 03, 2010 at 4:51 PM
you will have to solder wires directly to the circuit board of the remote to complete the circuits and send a command from the remote
will have to add relays
Posted By: 92ss wagon
Date Posted: February 03, 2010 at 8:26 PM
thanks for the ideas, but I just found a newer version of the 551R that I needed on the internet so I bought it. Cost me $50.00 BNIB so I dont think thats bad. Do I just got negative from the AVS to the negative on the new 551R than? Thanks again for the help I appreciate it.
Posted By: monty_77
Date Posted: February 03, 2010 at 8:27 PM
thats all you should need
Posted By: 92ss wagon
Date Posted: February 08, 2010 at 1:30 PM
Well I received the new 551R in the mail today. it is definately a newer model so it has the 8 pin plug that provides the blue/white wire I needed So my questions are:
- Do I hook the blue/white wire to the AVS brain negative output correct?This will start it correct?
- Do I run a wire from the AVS negative output to the dark green for the lock?
- Do I run a wire from the AVS negative output to the blue for the unlock?
I know they are basic question but I'd like to be sure so I dont hurt anything.Thanks again I appreciate it
Posted By: 92ss wagon
Date Posted: February 10, 2010 at 11:45 AM
anyone???
Posted By: monty_77
Date Posted: February 10, 2010 at 2:41 PM
92ss wagon wrote:
Do I hook the blue/white wire to the AVS brain negative output correct?This will start it correct?
Do I run a wire from the AVS negative output to the dark green for the lock?
Do I run a wire from the AVS negative output to the blue for the unlock?
I know they are basic question but I'd like to be sure so I dont hurt anything.Thanks again I appreciate it
blue/white yes hook the output up here
lt. green on remote start (as long as its before the relays) hook output there
lt blue on remote start (as long as its before the relays) hook out put there
Posted By: 92ss wagon
Date Posted: February 10, 2010 at 7:47 PM
thank you! I thought so but wasn't sure. what will turn the remote start off though?The same blue/white wire contol that on the remote too?or does that just start it. Heading out now to finish up THANKS!!!
Posted By: ctdubbin
Date Posted: February 10, 2010 at 11:50 PM
things that turn the remote start off:
1. time delay (programmable to XX minutes)
2. Opening the hood
3. pressing the brake
normally, stepping on the brake to take it out of park will shut off the remote start. my viper remote start is programmed for 15 minutes, so after 15 minutes it shuts off automatically.
Posted By: monty_77
Date Posted: February 11, 2010 at 3:31 AM
The blue/white should shut it down if you want to stop it before time expires
just try it start it and then push the button the same amount of times and see if it shuts off
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