alarm, 2006 honda civic

So I'm getting ready to install an alarm in my car.  I have a 2006 Honda Civic Ex Sedan.  When we bought the car we got the factory aftermarket system, Omega AL-100F installed on it so it would work with the original key.  Well I am about to finish a very extensive, and expensive, audio system and frankly I don't trust that alarm.  I also want the auto start on my car.  That being said, I"m looking into the Zenesis ZN-502 and the Viper 5901.  I also am going to install whatever I decide on in my 1994 Ford F350 Crew Cab at some point down the line.  It appears I can utilize one remote for both vehicles, which is a plus.

The question: Siince there is already an alarm in my car, civic, would it in theory be pretty easy to just replace wires with the new alarm?  What I mean by that if it doesn't make since, is just take the Omega alarm wire off and replace it in the same place with the correct or corresponding wire from the new alarm?  All wires in this need to be seriously cleaned up.  They're very loose and the module is not secured, and other messy issues, which just adds to my insecure feeling of this alarm. 

The last thing I want to note is that.  I'm not an installer, I'm not a shop owner, I'm simply an enthusiast (however you spell it), and would like to learn further and broaden my knowledge.  I know everyone out there is gasping right now and before you type out "Take it to a professional" let me stop you.  I'm not an idiot.  I am pretty good with basic electronics, and do serious research and serious planning before attacking anything new.  I make my own wire diagrams as to how things are going to be hooked up and a list of step by step personal instructions on what wire goes to what, etc.  I'm not asking anyone to hold my hand, but would like some help with this and see if I can get an answer to my question from above. 

Referring to my research capabilities, I've done extensive research on both alarms for wire diagrams.  I have one for the Viper alarm and their accessories, however I've not been able to find one for the Zenesis.  I have the owners manual but it does not have wire guides or diagrams on it.  Don't know if anyone can lead me in the right direction on this. 

Thank you for your time in advance folks!!  If there are any questions or if I've left anything out that you all need to know, please feel free to ask and I'll give any information to help.  Thanks!

The only thing that I've found that I have downloaded was the user manual.  That of course has no wire diagrams or color codes in it.  So if there is an install guide out there I'm not finding it.  I'll try to look some more. 

As far as the remotes for the 591/2 I'll look into that. I have not made up my mind yet, cause I want to make sure if I'm going to go to this extent and spend the money on this I want to make sure I'm getting the things that I want in an alarm and getting a good alarm for the money.  I appreciate the lookout.

I have found that I'm going to need the bypass modules for both systems, either I think it's the xk-532 for the viper, or the I believe it is the Fortin Key Override all encrypted key data bypass kit for the Zenesis.

I would for sure test all wires before installation, but that's a great idea!  I do solder all connections where I can so that'll be done. 

I think my biggest issue right now is getting that Zenesis wire guide to plan an install. 

The only other thing I need to research is other accessories, such as window up down, etc.  What the zenesis offers standard and what will and won't work with it, etc.  I'll be researching that as well.

Thanks for the response! 

Ok so here's what I've found, I'm assuming this is what you've got.  I tried to find the "zn-502" but I'm not turning up anything.  Do you suppose they're the same wire types?  If so i could just use this one I suppose to figure out installation right? https://www.zenesisalarms.com/manuals/z502install.pdf

I'll keep searching, thank!

download th ecompustar installation guide. its basically the same brain.

IMO i would pick compustar or zenesis over viper.

is this what you're talking about?  Couldn't find anyting from the compustar website unless I'm not looking in the right spot but this looks simiar to what the zenesis is. 

https://nustart.ca/support/NUAS-Install.pdf

dpends on the revision you get. They changed the brain around a few times because of glitches.

this is the most recent Revision. I uploaded it in downloads but here is a link

https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/downloads.asp?srch=all&term=zn502

the plugs may not be in the exact area as the compustar, but colours are same.

lucky that i used to deal with them so i have their installation manuals in pdf form.

hope that helped. Cheers!

no problem.

i have installed a few wihout problems. only the first gen z502 were junk.

the new ones are so much better. if you need any help, keep us posted.

Ok so I've been looking over the install diagrams and I think I'm getting the gist of most of it.  I only have a couple of questions. 

Can someone please explain to me what the bypass is for exactly?  I'm looking at the Fortin Key Override-All for my car.  I was looking at the Connector 1 which is the Data Port.  So I referred to the Install Diagram on the ZN-502, and it says under the Con 6 Data Port RS-232: "This system is ONLY compatable with Fortin CAN and Imobilizer Bypass modules."  Does that mean the Fortin Key Override-All is not compatable with the Data port on the ZN-502? 

Next is that if I am using the bypass module, then do I also still need to connect the door locks to the alarm as well or does the bypass take care of all that for me?  If not is there a module out there that does all that?  When I was looking into a Viper 5902 I was quoted with a CANMAX400DEI Transponder/Door Lock.  Is that something that would take care of the door locks? 

I think that's it for now.  I'm going to continue to work on this and work on a diagram to post up and get some input before I do any wiring. 

Again thanks to all for your help! 

the bypass is used to mimic a code you have in your key. inside the key, there is a small chip called a transponder. That means if you got a 5 dollar key cut, it will not start the car, as the cars computer doesn not see the correct code to initiate start.

the Fortin-key-override-all is great, but see if you can pick up the fortin HONDA-SL3, as its significantly cheaper cost wise.
Any fortin bypass will work d2d (RS232) with the zenesis. However, many installers find d2d(data2data) is not 100% reliable just yet. So we often do w2w (wire to wire)

if you wish to get a module to control door locks, alarm disarm, trunk(if avail) and all door triggers, a Fortin CAN-SL2(data bus module) will do the job, but you still need a Fortin HONDA-SL3 (bypass).

An alternative method is to purchase an idatalink ADS-DLSL CA2. this is the only module that i know of that does both CANBUS and transponder bypass, and is very easy to program.

By wire 2 wire, according to the instructions, I would cut all the wires with exception of the ground (black) and the 12v (red).  Do the other 2 wires, blue and white, just get cut and put away or do they connect to the alarm somehow? 

Also while I was responding to this, I looked up the idatalink ADS-DLSL CA2.  That looks like it does EVERYTHING!  So I would imagine that would be the best and easiest way to install the system yes?  I'm going to switch my research to that instead of the fortin model.  That would be the equivilent to the Fortin CAN-SL2(data bus module) and the Fortin HONDA-SL3 (bypass) but in one module correct? 

if you do wire to wire, the 4 pin harness, use red and black. the white and blue can be scrapped or depinned.

and yes, the idatalink ADS-DLSL CA2 is the ultimate ALL IN ONE module, which is equivalent to the can-sl2 and honda-sl3 built in together.

as for the revision of the brain, only the Z-502 had problems. NOT the ZN-502 (BLACK/ blue oled screen). For the ZN-502, at first had screens that cracked VERY easily, but zenesis was aware of this and recalled the remotes. Now the newer ones have sturdy remotes and much mor eflawless programming problems.

If you go with the iDatalink bypass module, remember that it needs to be flashed with the correct firmware for your application. 

If you don't have the special cable, ADS USB Weblink Updater, ensure that the module is flashed by the supplier with the correct firmware.

what kregs said. the idatalink is more convienant since it does everything, but if you can purchase it locally, do it, since if something doesnt go right, at least you can fix it pronto.

the fortin modules, although you need 2 seperate modules, it ahs all necessary firmware and doesnt need to be flashed for vehicle specific applications.

The other thing is I'm not seeing where the window up down will work into this?  I still need to really sit down with the manual and read it over, but just by glancing at it I'm not seeing how that works.  I'm looking at the DEI 530T btw!

the 530t will work on any vehicle, if you want the window rollup, you need to open up the driver door to get access to the window motor wires at the master switch.

IF this is the case, in my opinion i would just purchase a bypass module that does transponder only, because the disarm, arm, lock/unlock wires are in the door. Its convienantly there if you plan to do a window rollup module. If you're on a tight schedual then a canbus will save a significant amount of time, if your not in a hurry, all this car needs is a basic bypass module, as all wires can be picked up inside at the DKP or fuse box.

75 for the usb loaded is pricey, but if you want the idata its the only way. unless it came preflashed with the correct firmware.

You can find the iDatalink USB cable on EBay for about $43.50 delivered.  The iDatalink WEB site with the firmware and the downloads is free.

iDatalink has been updating their firmware to work on the new car models so the module you buy may have an older version of the firmware loaded on it.   Having the cable and flashing with the latest firmware is very handy and the install guide will match the modules firmware.

Thanks. 

I have a new question regarding the 530T.  I know it does up and down but does it vent also?  How do you do this?  Is it a program.  Not seeing anything on it.  Anyone know?

I agree.  But I've gotten pretty good at doing it.  I've ran 2 sets of 14ga wire and a set of 12ga wire through there for stuff in the door.  So another set of 14ga wouldn't be an issue.  But I agree, they're not the easiest to do. 

Sorry to be so ignorant, btw, but what is GWA?

no need for additional relays since the modules do everything.

however adding a relay for the ground when armed wont hurt and is a good preventative meansure. Since you have the 530t, 592, and  antigrind (optional), you might want to concider using a relay to power up all these sources. Since the output is only 250ma, it might burn the output on the zenesis.

85 - gwa from unit
86 - constant 12v
87 - high current ground (chassis)
30 - to all GWA inputs from additional modules.

its wired up exactly like a starter kill, but insted of using the ground when armed, use ground when running(status)

often for units that do  not have built in starter kills, i diode isolate both the gwr and gwa to the relay, now the relay has 2 purposes.

Ok I'm a little stumped on this.  I'm looking at the instructions for the Idatalink.  It says LOCK/ARM [-] INPUT - GREEN/ BLACK.  Then the wire under it says UNLOCK/DISARM [-] INPUT - BLUE/BLACK.  Then I look at the Zenesis Brain and I see the input connector (CON 3) and I see a (+) Door Trigger Input and  (-) Door Trigger Input.  So I'm guessing the GREEN/ Black (lock/arm) goes to the (-) Door Trigger Input?  But where does the other one go to?  I'm not seeing an unlock one. 

Wait on Con 8 (Auxiliary outputs) I see a black (-) armed output and a gray (-) disarm output.  Is this what I should be using?  So That black to the GREEN/ black and the gray to the blue/black? 

Someone help please.

Tedmond - Can you explain a little more on this?  Is this something I need to do?  The Zenesis has a Ground When Running Output, and that's what I'm running the idatalink wire to.  Does that solve the issue?  Or is there something else I need to do?

Ok so my latest delimma.  Thanks to everyone for their help by the way! 

The 530T has a gray wire - H2/5 GRAY (-) Output during activation

I cannot find this on the alarm. 

What does this gray wire do?  What is it for?  It has a note next to it that says "Connect this wire to optional relay (P/N 610T) to bypass sensors which may trigger the security system during operation.  This wire continues to output (-) ground for 5 seconds after the window motors have stopped."

I guess I just don't understand what all that means.  Can someone explain it in lame mans terms for me? 

Ok so here's what I'm seeing.  If I'm reading it correctly, and it's possible I'm not cause my brain is mush right now, I would take the (-) armed output wire from the Alarm, run that to a switching relay, 85.  Then Run the Gray H2/5 wire from the 530T (both) to the relay 87A.  Is that correct? 

Ok so after reading it for a second, does this mean, Output during activation, that it's when the alarm is disarmed or being disarmed?  if that's the case then it would go to the (-) disarm output right?  Man this one is complicated.  I've got most everything but this on the 530T. 

Now ted wiring that gwa to trigger a relay,  will have that relay activated the entire time the alarm is armed and the car is off! Get where i'm going! The output diode isolated to all the inputs should be sufficcient, but using a relay is not an option here!

Actually it is an option, but  a risky one!

Ok I'm so confused.  So no relay and use a diode?  Is there a specific diode?

You know what, I'm going to finish up the diagram I'm making and then I'll see about getting it up here and then we can make changes.  I'm sure that I have a crap load wrong but I want to confirm what I've done anyway before I do any wiring. 

hey t&t, what do you mean ? the relay will only energize if the ignition is on.

85 - gwr and gwa both diode isolated
86 - ignition
cut starter wire in half
87a - starter wire key side
30 - starter wire motor side

tedmond wrote:

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no need for additional relays since the modules do everything.

however adding a relay for the ground when armed wont hurt and is a good preventative meansure. Since you have the 530t, 592, and  antigrind (optional), you might want to concider using a relay to power up all these sources. Since the output is only 250ma, it might burn the output on the zenesis.

85 - gwa from unit
86 - constant 12v
87 - high current ground (chassis)
30 - to all GWA inputs from additional modules.

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Three one amp diodes! I think the part number is 1n4004!

I want to confirm that wiht the idatalink module, I'm not going to need to wire up the door locks right?  That does it all through the module correct?

On the iDatalink module...  I am assuming that your module will be loaded with ADS-DLSL-HA firmware.  You will follow the Type 6 install guide.

You will connect the R/S's Lock/UnLock output wires to the iDatalink Lock/UnLock inputs.  The iDatalink module has outputs that are then connected to the cars Lock/UnLock wires at the back of the fuse box. 

Also note that the R/S's trunk output goes to the iDatalink module and the iDatalink controls the trunk thru data.  There is no trunk pop output from the iDatalink module.  However, that also means that the trunk pop will only work when the car is not running.

Ok so here it is.  I got my answer from the above question, I think, according to the IDataLink website.  So based on that I've made my diagram and what appears to be the connections I need to make.  Now I know I'm probably wrong on some stuf and I need to make some changes but that's why I'm posting it here so I can get assistance from you guys before I do anything.  I do have some questions, however.

Q1:  There is a little confusion on the installation instrucitons for the alarm.  When it talks about the ignition harness and starter kill, the instructions say it's a blue wire that goes to Connector 7 (CON 7).  The only thing that looks like it goes into CON 7 is the Z pass touch.  Looking a little further into it, I see that it has a red wire on CON 8 labeled RED (-) Starter Kill Output.  So on the diagram that's what I did was put the RED (-) Starter Kill Output to the 85 terminal on the Starter Kill Relay.  They both state it goes on #85 so that's why I made the change.  My question is, can someone please verify that this is correct? 

Q2:  Also on CON 8 there is a "YELLOW: (-) Rearm Output wire.  I have no clue as to where this would go to.  The description under it says "This wire provides a 0.7 seconde pulse when the system is armed.  Also, once the vehicle has successfully started after remote start, this wire will proved a 0.7 second pulse."  So again I can't figure out where this one goes.  Can someone shed some light to this one please?

Q3: Also on CON 8 there is a "GREEN: (-) Parking Light/ Aux 2 Output" wire.  Should I run the 2 530T modules off this one, and then run the 529T module off the Aux 1 output or does it matter? 

Q4:  This one has to do with the 530T's and the 529T's "Gray (-) Output During Activation" wire.  Do I need this?  Should I just ground it with the other wires?  Does it need a relay, and if so what wire am I using to run the relay?  If  I'm looking at it correctly, is this the way the relay should run?

85 - (-) Disarm Output wire from the alarm

86 - (+) 12V Constant (Fused)

30 - (-) Chassis Ground

87A - (-) Output During Activation wire from 530/529 modules

I think that was all I had for questions for the most part.  I'm axious to have you guys look at this so I can make my changes. 

Thanks for everyone's help. 

https://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee1/99scooter/FINAL%20INSTALL/AlarmRemoteStartDiagram1.jpg

kreg357 wrote:

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Also note that the R/S's trunk output goes to the iDatalink module and the iDatalink controls the trunk thru data.  There is no trunk pop output from the iDatalink module.  However, that also means that the trunk pop will only work when the car is not running.

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So should I not use the idatalink for the trunk and just use the wire out of the alarm.  Really it's not that big a deal to open it when the car's off.  If I'm in the car I use the handle inside anyway. 

Just to clarify about the trunk release.   Do you have factory remote keyless entry?  If yes, does the factory FOB have a trunk release button?  The Civic LX does not.  The EX and SI does.  The R/S and iDatalink module will only pop the trunk if you can do it with the factory remote.  ( There is a solenoid in the trunk lid on those models.  The LX uses a mechanical cable/latch to release the trunk. ) 

If your car has the remote trunk release feature, if you hook the R/S to the iDatalink as per the instructions, the R/S FOB will pop the trunk when the car is not running.  If the car is running or remote started, it will not pop the trunk.  The factory FOBs work the same way as a safety precaution.  Some installers run the R/S's trunk release output directly to the cars trunk release wire to allow the trunk to open whenever the R/S's trunk button is pressed.

howie ll wrote:

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Er can't have the Terrible Twins arguing, Ted you did write 86 to constant, apologise to Darren, please, Scooter, diode bands towards alarm, I don't think you'd need a relay here. I'm doing a project car for someone at the moment, 4 x electroluminescent panels, + 2 small relays all running off the GWA line. So far haven't needed a relay.

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No need for apologies! It's all kool! Personally i also have run quite a number of lights and relays from that same GWA wire! Never had any issues!

Ok so I will use the trunk pop wire from the alarm and not use it from the idatalink.  No problem.  I'll utilize the diodes for the modules. 

So does everything else look kosher on the diagram or has anyone been able to look at that yet?  What about the questions I've asked?  Anyone have any input on that stuff?  Again I thank you guys for your information and help with this.  I'm trying to do as much as I can with research and common sense, but some things I'm just not sure about, even after researching it! 

On the 529T sunroof module, can someone please varify my wireing.  I have the (-) Activation In Side 1 going to the Ground When Armed.  Then I have the (-) Activation Input Side 2 and the (-) Out Activation Side 2 going to the (-) Disarm Output of the Alarm.  Then I have the (-) Out Activation Side 1 not going anywhere.  Is that all correct or can someone please direct me on this one?

Well it's probably relatively simple for people who do it every day.  But for someone who is learning how to do it and just asking for varification on it, it's not and I just need a little reassurance that what I'm doing is correct or not.

I have read the instructions by the way which is why I did what I did, and I'm just looking, again, for a little varification.  If it's wrong then I'll go back and re read it and go from there. 

It's not a viper alarm I'm using.  It's a zenesis ZN502AS. 

But in reading the viper installation manual for a couple seconds, I'm assuming you're talking about the Primary Harness H1/12 Orange (-) 500mA Ground When Armed Output wire and not the (-) 200mA Accessory Output wire. 

So then the rest of the wires go to the motor then and not between the motor and switch?  That doesn't really make since to me.  What I'm seeing is that the Blue and the Green go to the motor side, then the Brown and the White go to the switch. 

Then you're saying don't use the Gray/Black or the Gray at all?  Is that correct?

Ok so here's my updated diagram. 

Changes:

1 - I removed the (-) Trunk Release wire from the idatalink and am going to run it to the (-) trunk release in the car.  That way the alarm runs it not the datalink. 

2 - I removed the (-) Ground When Armed Relay and inserted 3 diodes, 1 for each module. 

3 - I removed the (-) Auxilary Output Relay and just ran without one to each modlue. 

4 - I also removed the (-) Output During Activation Relay (if needed) because it appears that i don't need it, if I'm listening and reading correctly.

5 - On the 529T module, I've removed the (-) Disarm Output wire to the (-) Output Activation Side 2, and also removed the (-) Activation Input Side 2 from the (-) Disarm Output wire and connected it and the (-) Activatiion Input Side 1 wire to the (-) Ground When Armed Wire.  The (-) Output Activation, Side 1 and Side 2 (gray and gray/black) wires are not being used.

Question - I have a diode going on the (-) Ground When Armed wire, white bar towards the alarm, do ineed one for the 2 Activation Input Wires?  Or is one fine on the Ground When Armed wire?

I think that's all the changes.  Does everything look good otherwise on the diagram?  I'd like confirmation, or varification whichever you wanna call it, on the diagram before I get started on the installation please. 

Updated Diagram: https://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee1/99scooter/FINAL%20INSTALL/AlarmRemoteStartDiagram2.jpg

when you unlock your car doors, do the domelights come on? if so no need for domelight output aka domelight supervision.

looks good from what i see. just not too sure about the 529t module, i havnt used one yet, so wiring cant say if its correct.

everything else looks fine from what i see. nice diagram though

did you buy the zenesis yet?

tedmond wrote:

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when you unlock your car doors, do the domelights come on? if so no need for domelight output aka domelight supervision.

looks good from what i see. just not too sure about the 529t module, i havnt used one yet, so wiring cant say if its correct.

everything else looks fine from what i see. nice diagram though

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I believe that it does, but I already have an alarm on it.  But it's the alarm from the factory.  I haven't gotten a chance to look at all the wires and compare them to the diagram from the installation manual of the alarm yet.  Do you think that makes a difference as far as the light coming on or not?  I guess I could just leave it off and then put it on later if it doesn't work. 

Thanks for the diagram complament, and thank you for your input. 

tedmond wrote:

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did you buy the zenesis yet?

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Yes I've got that and the bypass and modules.  I've got everything I need to start the install.  Why do you ask?

brains were updated, so were remotes that lost communications during a page.

all looks well now, but i still think a compustar is more reliable.