Passkey III

Hi everyone,

Sure hope someone can give me some advice on this Pass-Key III system. My sisters 2000 Chevy Venture is stuck in my driveway. The security light is on and it wont start. I have checked around the other sites I belong to and nobody knows much about this, so I thought who better to ask then the guys that add remote starts and such.

I found a reset procedure that goes something like this....

ALL Keys Lost (Domestic)

If the customer has lost all the keys that the VTD module has learned, the PASS-Key® III module can be reprogrammed to learn 10 new keys. This procedure will take 30 minutes to complete.

     1.Cut the new key with the mechanical key code for the vehicle.
     2.Insert the new key in the ignition and turn the ignition ON.
     3.The PASS KEY telltale will flash at 1 Hz.
     4.Leave the key ON in this state for 10 minutes.
     5.After 10 minutes, turn the key OFF and then back ON within 10 seconds.
     6.Repeat steps 4 and 5, for a total of 3 ignition key cycles.
     7.After the third ignition key cycle 10 minute time period has elapsed the PASS KEY telltale stops flashing and the new key has been learned.

This procedure will reset the valid key code counter to 1. To program more keys, refer to Learn More Keys Mode.

That did nothing. Is this the correct procedure? So I was thinking it could be the module in the steering column. I pulled that out, looks like this.



So can I replace this with a junk yard one? Is there anyway to test it? Since this produces a electromagnetic field, could I check it with a compass?

Any advice on this system would be great. I would just love to know if Im on the right track here.

Thanks.
Bob

A few things about the GM 30min key learn:

-Did you wait for 10+ full minutes between key cycles? Wait 11 minutes to be safe if you are just timing yourself with the vehicle clock / radio

-Make sure the battery voltage doesn't go down during this step. (headlights off, no accessories / radio etc.)

-After the 3rd 10 min key learn, key off for minimum of 5s before attempting to start the vehicle.

Replacing the key loop might not do you any good. The vehicle PCM could also give you trouble because that is where the PK3 data is stored for the key learn.

Another option to try "just because" is disconnect the vehicle battery for 30s before trying to do a key learn again.

Did this just happen out of the blue? Also do you have more then one key available? Try learning the other key the 2nd time, the keys can also fail.

Thanks for the reply,

I have tried the procedure a few times with no luck. The light never goes out. Battery is new and I did all this with a 10amp charger hooked up and the head light fuse out.

That is the only key, could it be bad?

The main reason I think the pickup module may be bad is because this procedure fails. It just acts like it doesn't see the key. I can unplug that module and get the exact same results.

If the key information is stored in the pcm, is there anyway I could read it with my OBDII connector and laptop? If I could just see the number of keys stored that may give me a clue.

Thanks,
Bob

# of keys stored is not going to be an OBD relevant value. You would need to get a hold of somebody that has access to a GM TechII

Do you have any errors showing up with your scan tool? GM has loads of different P-Codes for various Immobilizer faults. Might shed some light on if the PCM is failing or not.

Not sure what a locksmith will charge for a new cut key, I'm also guessing you can't wait for a new cheap key from EBAY or anything.

Thanks for the reply,

No errors stored, E-bay sounds good, but then I would still need it cut. Dealer wants 30 or 40 bucks.   Could be worth a try.

As an update, I went to the local u-pick it lot and got a replacement module for the steering column. Nothing....   

So Im thinking key or BCM. Key is cheap, that could be my next try.

What are the chances of the key being bad? If its not the key, its going to get expensive. I want this thing out of my garage.

Thanks,
Bob

bobby_w wrote:

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What are the chances of the key being bad?

Thanks,
Bob

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Ever see how people treat their keys? The key is the first thing a mechanic changes when symptoms like what you have pop-up.

I'm kind of astonished that your sister only has ONE key to her van. I rarely ever lose keys but I still keep spares and all my vehicles have always come with two sets, originals (used vehicle) at that.

Thanks for the responses everyone,

You guys have the best responses regarding the passkey II.
I took the key to PepBoys today to test it, they have no idea how to work the equipment they have, so after some time learning there test gear, I determined that the key was bad.

Went to the dealer and got a 55 dollar key, no luck, same thing....

Setting it on fire soon.


Bob

PassKey III

sorry, typo.

Bobby

catback wrote:

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bobby_w wrote:

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What are the chances of the key being bad?

Thanks,
Bob

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Ever see how people treat their keys? The key is the first thing a mechanic changes when symptoms like what you have pop-up.

I'm kind of astonished that your sister only has ONE key to her van. I rarely ever lose keys but I still keep spares and all my vehicles have always come with two sets, originals (used vehicle) at that.

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I forgot to say, yes, why would anyone not have extra keys?
I have three keys for my Explorer, it came with two and I bought a spare.   Seriously, who only has one key? My sister.....

This thing is dead.   I just ran it through another 30 min. key re-learn, nothing.......   


Help me, please,
Bobby

have you tried the passkey reset. turn the key on for 15 mins. the sec light should blink. if it comes on solid after 15 mins turn it off. wait 5mins and turn the key and hold it it til the the car starts. if that doesnt work, disconnect the positive terminal of the battery and touch it to a really good ground. that will reset the PCM and BCM.

Have you checked the fuses on the right side of the dash. The Passkey system have two 10 amp fuses.
You can also check the wiring at the PK3 module that you removed.
The orange should have power at all times.
The pink wire should only have power in run and start.

The reprogram procedure from the manual is as follows:

manual wrote:

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PASS-KEY(R) III SYSTEM AUTO LEARN PROCEDURE

NOTE: PASS-Key(R) III system auto learn procedure must be performed if all keys are lost, or Powertrain Control Module (PCM), PASS-Key(R) III module, ignition lock cylinder, steering column assembly or ignition key are replaced. A password is communicated between PASS-Key(R) III module and PCM to provide engine operation. If PCM is replaced, the PCM must learn password from PASS-Key(R) III module.

1. Insert a valid mechanical coded unlearned ignition key in ignition switch. Turn ignition switch to RUN position. SECURITY indicator light will flash once per second for 10 minutes for length of auto learn timer.

2. When auto learn timer expires and SECURITY indicator light turns off, turn ignition switch to OFF position. Remove ignition key. Wait 10 seconds.

3. Repeat steps 1 and 2 two more times. Insert newly learned ignition key in ignition switch.

4. Turn ignition switch to RUN position. SECURITY indicator light should remain off to indicate ignition key was learned. This will be the only learned key. To program more keys, see PASS-KEY(R) III SYSTEM QUICK LEARN PROCEDURE . If SECURITY indicator light does not remain off, repeat procedure.


PASS-KEY(R) III SYSTEM QUICK LEARN PROCEDURE

NOTE: PASS-Key(R) III system quick learn procedure is used to learn additional ignition keys. A learned key must be used to initiate procedure. Up to 10 ignition keys can be learned.

1. Insert a valid ignition key into ignition switch. Turn ignition on. After a 2-second bulb test, turn ignition off and remove key.

2. Within 10 seconds, insert new valid mechanical code unlearned key and turn ignition switch to RUN position. SECURITY indicator light will illuminate until key is learned. This may happen so quickly light illumination is not observed. Turn ignition off. Remove ignition key 10 seconds after light turns off.

3. To learn additional keys, repeat step 2 . To exit procedure, turn ignition off for more than 10 seconds.

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The procedure I have specifies to wait 10 seconds before turn on the next key and not within that time.

-------------
This information is provided only as a reference.
All circuits should be verified with a digital multi-meter prior to making any connections.

Thanks for the reply,

I have had no luck getting this to learn the new key. The security light never goes out in the relearn process. This thing has a little multifunction display so when you turn it on the display switches from Battery to Security. If you open the door, it will include Door Ajar between Battery and Security. I did not try removing the key. In the process that I used, it says not to exceed 10 seconds while off. Seams to be a few differ versions of this process, I dont know which one is correct. Since it take 30 minutes with each attempt, it gets old fast. Some procedures say the light will turn on solid some say it will turn off. I have no way of knowing if its on steady of not with this display. I guess Ill just have to keep trying different procedures and see what if I can get it.

On thing I did notice last time I was messing with it was that after some time with the key turned on I could here the injectors clicking. I wonder if that means something. I was going to make a remote start button tomorrow and try starting it when I here the injectors start clicking.

Stay tuned, the saga of the 2000 Venture will continue.

Bob

91stt] wrote:

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Have you checked the fuses on the right side of the dash. The Passkey system have two 10 amp fuses.
You can also check the wiring at the PK3 module that you removed.
The orange should have power at all times.
The pink wire should only have power in run and start.

The reprogram procedure from the manual is as follows:

manual wrote:

---

PASS-KEY(R) III SYSTEM AUTO LEARN PROCEDURE

NOTE: PASS-Key(R) III system auto learn procedure must be performed if all keys are lost, or Powertrain Control Module (PCM), PASS-Key(R) III module, ignition lock cylinder, steering column assembly or ignition key are replaced. A password is communicated between PASS-Key(R) III module and PCM to provide engine operation. If PCM is replaced, the PCM must learn password from PASS-Key(R) III module.

1. Insert a valid mechanical coded unlearned ignition key in ignition switch. Turn ignition switch to RUN position. SECURITY indicator light will flash once per second for 10 minutes for length of auto learn timer.

2. When auto learn timer expires and SECURITY indicator light turns off, turn ignition switch to OFF position. Remove ignition key. Wait 10 seconds.

3. Repeat steps 1 and 2 two more times. Insert newly learned ignition key in ignition switch.

4. Turn ignition switch to RUN position. SECURITY indicator light should remain off to indicate ignition key was learned. This will be the only learned key. To program more keys, see PASS-KEY(R) III SYSTEM QUICK LEARN PROCEDURE . If SECURITY indicator light does not remain off, repeat procedure.


PASS-KEY(R) III SYSTEM QUICK LEARN PROCEDURE

NOTE: PASS-Key(R) III system quick learn procedure is used to learn additional ignition keys. A learned key must be used to initiate procedure. Up to 10 ignition keys can be learned.

1. Insert a valid ignition key into ignition switch. Turn ignition on. After a 2-second bulb test, turn ignition off and remove key.

2. Within 10 seconds, insert new valid mechanical code unlearned key and turn ignition switch to RUN position. SECURITY indicator light will illuminate until key is learned. This may happen so quickly light illumination is not observed. Turn ignition off. Remove ignition key 10 seconds after light turns off.

3. To learn additional keys, repeat step 2 . To exit procedure, turn ignition off for more than 10 seconds.

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The procedure I have specifies to wait 10 seconds before turn on the next key and not within that time.

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Its Alive !!!!

I followed this procedure and got the Security light to turn off and it learned the new key. Every time I attempted this before I had the fuses out for the head lights, it didnt like that. I put them back in and after about 11 minutes the security light went out.

But it still wont start. I had to jump the starter with a screwdriver to get it running. So what now? Where do I go from here?

Bob

That is odd. PKII and PKIII systems don't allow the fuel pump or injectors to fire typically, they are more then just a standard starter kill like an aftermarket alarm can provide.

So you aren't getting the security light any more like before confirming the key was learned correctly? Did you mess around with the ignition harness at all when you replaced the key-pick-up module?

The only suggestion I have is check that the starter relay is good. You could also try jumping the starter at the relay to ensure there is no wiring issues from starter to fuse/relay block. Then you need to determine the wiring path from ignition to starter relay...

For S&Gs I would pull the battery to do a power fail and then try to restart the van. This should not delete your stored keys so don't worry. If you get the security light again after removing battery power, you might have a more serious issue.

awdeclipse wrote:

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That is odd. PKII and PKIII systems don't allow the fuel pump or injectors to fire typically, they are more then just a standard starter kill like an aftermarket alarm can provide.

So you aren't getting the security light any more like before confirming the key was learned correctly? Did you mess around with the ignition harness at all when you replaced the key-pick-up module?

The only suggestion I have is check that the starter relay is good. You could also try jumping the starter at the relay to ensure there is no wiring issues from starter to fuse/relay block. Then you need to determine the wiring path from ignition to starter relay...

For S&Gs I would pull the battery to do a power fail and then try to restart the van. This should not delete your stored keys so don't worry. If you get the security light again after removing battery power, you might have a more serious issue.

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The PK=III problem is solved. I just got back from the local dealer and he printed out all the schematics for me Great guy...

So Im running it down now, I have power to the pcm-crank fuse and the start relay from the pcm clicks, so all is well with the computers and safety's. I have to get the crank relay out that's mounted above the BCM and check for 12v there. If I don't have power, I need to find a fuse-able link that's before the relay, it should be a constant 12v according to the schematic. I have no idea where that fuse is.

I'll post back when I finish for today. Starting to get hungry and I'm low on Beer.

Peace Out, Go Hawks,
Bob

I have a update. It will run if I jump starter, the security light is out and the PCM will fire the injectors, no problem.

I do not have 12v at the starter solenoid when I turn the key to start. I have 12v at the PCM/Crank fuse and thats as far as I got today. This is the schematic I got from John at the local Chevy dealer.

(sorry, my scanner is not working so I just used my Nikon)


High Res. Image

The green arrow is where I checked for 12v when the key is turned to star, thats good. I dont know where that fusible link or the crank relay is located (red arrows). I found the connection for the Transaxle switch and Ill check that tomorrow. It looks to me like the PCM sends ground to the Crank Relay and 12v comes from the Transaxle switch via PCM/ABS fuse (I have 12v at that fuse).

The only thing I can think of is I may have blown that Fusible Link when I first started working on this. I did not notice the Security light so I jumped the starter to see if it was good. That could have been a mistake. I dont see on the schematic how I could have blown that fuse but you never know.

So If anyone knows where that fuse or relay is located, or any ideas at all where to go next please let me know.

Peace Out,
Bob

Try moving the gear shift through all its positions and cranking in neutral

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This information is provided only as a reference.
All circuits should be verified with a digital multi-meter prior to making any connections.

91stt] wrote:

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Try moving the gear shift through all its positions and cranking in neutral

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That was one of the first things I tried before it was towed here. I did locate the crank relay, its next to the battery. (picture is better)


So after some testing with my trusty Fluke I found that the relay was good. But I was not getting 12v at the range switch with the key turned to on. So I decided that I just didnt care why, the fuse is good, the wire is open someplace before the trans. range switch.

So I decided to just rewire the crank relay. I cut the wire from the range switch to the crank relay and ran a new wire to the ign. fuse under the hood. This is where I connected to the fuse block.



The Blue wire is what I cut in. Picture is before solder and a nice tape job.

I ran that wire through the existing loom to the crank relay. And connect it to the org/blk lead from the relay connector.

(Picture of relay splice)


I tested and the Van started, problem solved. So I taped up all the wire loom I had apart and put everything back together.
(Picture of the finished relay)



And finally a picture of the relay back in its home tucked in next to the radiator.



So that's it, the van runs, the security light is out and all is good.
I have no idea how these two thing failed at the same time but they did. The battery was completely shot, that may have cause some damage with low voltage.

Thanks for all the help getting this thing running again.

Bob