04 tahoe rs issues

I am installing an Avital A4103 in a 2004 Tahoe. I am using the DB-ALL bypass.

My issue is that when you remote start it, it cranks, and just begins to fire and then the starter disengages. Then on its second attempt it cranks for probably 5-6 seconds and then starts.

I have tried several different locations for the tach signal. I have gone to the injector, as well as the coil pack. On the injectors, there is a pink and black, then on the next injector is a pink and pink/black stripe. So I am going to black wire since that is the odd color. On the coil pack, the odd color is orange, and that is also what I was hooked up to.

I have tried setting to virtual tach just for testing and cranked that up to 500ms. I have also tried voltage sensing and set the crank time to 2 minutes. Both of those and the vehicle does the same thing.

I have tried to move my ground to another location, still same result.

What else should I be trying?

Thanks

Shawn

Place the key in the ignition switch, try to remote start it. What does it do now?

Place the key in the ignition and this time turn it to the on position, try to remote start it, what does it do now?

I can try that when the customer brings the vehicle back in.

But wouldn't I get the passlock light on the dash if the bypass was not working properly? I do not get the light in the dash when remote starting it. I do however get the light to come on when I lock the doors. If I unlock the doors, it turns off. I have tried remote starting it both ways to see if there was a difference. Does the same thing.

Also, if it was a bypass issue, would it still start on the second attempt? Granted it does crank for a while to actually start, but it still starts.

And I am assuming key on and remote starting it is to determine if I am not powering something I should be from the RS unit. Is that correct?

The only thing I am not powering is the brown accessory 2 wire. The heater and radio come on when unit attempts to remote start.

I had read elsewhere that someone had this issue and changed the wait to start to 1 second rather than the 15 second default setting. I had always thought the wait to start was for diesel applications. Or does this affect gas engines as well?

Thanks

Shawn

you should be going to the cluster for tach on these vehicles.

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A DMM is a beautiful thing.

MECP Advanced Installer Certified.

i always do these vehicles, voltage sense, 4 sec crank.... no issues at all....  you could also try V tach

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Kevin Gerry
Certified Electronics Technician
MECP First Class Installer

Owner/Installer
Classic Car Audio
since 1979

I am going to try the tach wire behind the cluster when it comes back.

And as far as voltage sense or virtual tach, I did both of those, and it still gave the same result.

That is what had me stumped.

Shawn

If i recall correctly it's white at the cluster. the only white one there. obviously you will want to test it.

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A DMM is a beautiful thing.

MECP Advanced Installer Certified.

Well got it figured out today.

Changed to the white wire behind tach, and moved my ground down to a little thicker metal in the kickpanel.

Same result.

Ran a quick jumper to the second accessory wire, and hit the button on the remote. Started first attempt.

So pull the jumper out and ran a wired a relay for the second accessory, and its working like a charm now.

Never had the issue before. We used to only power the first accessory and never ran into this. Only time we usually needed to power the second accessory was if the heater controls did not come on with remote start.

From what I have been reading, its kind of hit or miss if the second accessory needs to be powered up.

Thanks to all for the advice.

Shawn

good to hear it was something simple. sucks to hear that it was more or less a shortcut to save a buck or two for a relay, and maybe aminute during bench press.

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A DMM is a beautiful thing.

MECP Advanced Installer Certified.

Had nothing to do with saving a buck or time on the bench.

Just never had the issue before. Have done quite a few of the GM trucks and never usually needed to power up the second accessory. And it was never causing a no start condition, only no heater control activation during remote start.

Shawn

i'm glad some advice from the directechs forum was useful . kinda funny reading your post over there and then coming over here and seeing it again. it only caught my eye cuz of the title i thought to myself oh thats interesting somebody else had a similar prob on directechs lol.

yeah, true, most GM's wont ever have a problem starting from not seeing the second ACC. BUT, isn't having the heater/AC work during remote start the point of having remote start in the first place?

i wont judge because i am certainly guilty of the same sort of lazy mistake, and i think it is funny that really nobody ever really complained of not having their AC come on when they remote start their cars. i guess most people just want to show off and couldn't care less about the actual benefits of having remote start.

but truthfully, even though it might physically start without having all of the wires hooked up, that doesn't mean that it is a good install. its just like when a car has more than one constant 12v wire but you decide to hook all 3 constant wires from the alarm to just a single 12v wire in the car. its just not natural. a remote starter should be the 100% the same as if you got in and turned the key, so everything that happens when you start the car with the key should happen when you remote start the car or else you risk malfunction or damage to the car. not trying to be condescending just being truthful, it took me a long time of having stupid problems like that before i realized what the REAL problem was for myself. i was taught to take shortcuts so that's what i did until i got wise to what was really going on.

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cdx280, When I run into an issue, I hit up as many places as I can. I have noticed that sometimes you get something that no one on the other forum brings up.

So I like to fan out my resource to help get as many different options as possible. LOL.

Soundnsecurity, this vehicle was getting the heater and radio to come on during remote start. It just wouldn't actually start. I was saying in a previous post that we usually only needed to hook up the second accessory when the heater did not come on. Very very few and far between that we ran into that issue. And we never had a no start condition with the second accessory not being hooked up.

I too was taught and trained that when you have multiple installs to get done in one day, you do the bare minimum to get the vehicle done and out the door. Not the best business practice, and I said when I started my own shop, it would not be that way. When I worked at the other shop, they would have just wanted me to run a jumper off the first accessory to the second and not take the time or expense to put in the relay.

So when I got this no start condition, which is my first on the GM trucks and suvs, it never crossed my mind that it was the second accessory that was causing it. It was a first for me. I kept thinking it had to be a tach issue since it would start on the second attempt, even though it cranked so long, but still started.

As I read through posts on here as well as Directechs, I came across a similar issue another person was having. So that is what made me at least try the second accessory. And even in that thread, there were people that claimed it was only necessary on very few of the GM trucks.

Shawn

yeah i completely understand about working for someone who just wants it done and out the door. but over the years ive learned that it usually works out better in the long run to take your time with a remote start, you will have far fewer people come back with stupid problems, which ends up being more time you actually get to spend on paying jobs. business owners only tend to see things in the short term. it also makes me pretty mad when i lose a customer because someone down the street does it in half of the time because they use T-taps. but i am always happy to charge just as much to fix their mistakes and do it right.

it is odd though that the truck would start on the second time but not the first time. that does have tach wire written all over it, but that is why i hardly ever use tach. i always just turn it off and use a timed start. it seems to work much better especially on new cars with computer controlled ignition anyway.

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soundnsecurity wrote:

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yeah i completely understand about working for someone who just wants it done and out the door. but over the years ive learned that it usually works out better in the long run to take your time with a remote start, you will have far fewer people come back with stupid problems, which ends up being more time you actually get to spend on paying jobs. business owners only tend to see things in the short term. it also makes me pretty mad when i lose a customer because someone down the street does it in half of the time because they use T-taps. but i am always happy to charge just as much to fix their mistakes and do it right.

it is odd though that the truck would start on the second time but not the first time. that does have tach wire written all over it, but that is why i hardly ever use tach. i always just turn it off and use a timed start. it seems to work much better especially on new cars with computer controlled ignition anyway.

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I agree on the down the road installers. And I have fixed alot of their issues. I try not to compete with pricing too much with the other shops, but I know I take a loss in labor for doing it the right way. I agree, if a vehicle has to come back, I am losing labor dollars. But if customers do not have issues with an install, they tend to tell others about it. And even in the tough economy, they still pay a little more for less headache.

I am still impressed to this day that work that was done at the previous shop never really had any issues. We have had installs done with T-taps that are going on 6 plus years without a single hiccup. But that is what the owner wanted, so I had little choice. I know everyone has their opinion on T-taps, but from my personal experience, they have been very reliable is used properly and the right size for the job. I will admit there are some installs that I still use them for the hard to reach areas. But I really try my best to solder as many if not all connection when possible.

Shawn

i didn't intend to come off as saying posting in multiple forums was a bad thing by any means. like you said, it is best to post in a couple places cuz you can get more responses. i can also say i have never personally had a no start condition based off of 2nd acc not being hooked up. and like i mentioned over on dei's board, the check engine light was the only thing that ever gave me an issue when 2nd acc wasn't hooked up.

the important thing is that it got resolved and the problem is gone. i also agree about fixing the other shops work. we get a lot of that at my shop where customers saved a couple bucks by going down the street, but then they end up spending more in the long run to have us fix it. i dont mind doing this though because we've been able to develop a better reputation - our work has far less problems and if they had someone else do the original install then they'll come to us to get it fixed. this way they also know for next time to just come to us and not even bother with the shop down the road.

as far as doing installs the way the owner wants, well, thats a whole different story. i actually quit a job after just a couple weeks because the owner would NOT let me solder. at first i just kind of dealt with it. then the first r/s i installed at his shop that needed a bypass module hooked up through data wires he actually came out and yelled at me when he saw me soldering them. i mean come on, really? data wires HAVE to be soldered otherwise you're just asking for trouble. i ended up leaving that shop because i didn't want MY name associated with comebacks that would have been easily avoidable.

cdx280 wrote:

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i didn't intend to come off as saying posting in multiple forums was a bad thing by any means. like you said, it is best to post in a couple places cuz you can get more responses. i can also say i have never personally had a no start condition based off of 2nd acc not being hooked up. and like i mentioned over on dei's board, the check engine light was the only thing that ever gave me an issue when 2nd acc wasn't hooked up.

the important thing is that it got resolved and the problem is gone. i also agree about fixing the other shops work. we get a lot of that at my shop where customers saved a couple bucks by going down the street, but then they end up spending more in the long run to have us fix it. i dont mind doing this though because we've been able to develop a better reputation - our work has far less problems and if they had someone else do the original install then they'll come to us to get it fixed. this way they also know for next time to just come to us and not even bother with the shop down the road.

as far as doing installs the way the owner wants, well, thats a whole different story. i actually quit a job after just a couple weeks because the owner would NOT let me solder. at first i just kind of dealt with it. then the first r/s i installed at his shop that needed a bypass module hooked up through data wires he actually came out and yelled at me when he saw me soldering them. i mean come on, really? data wires HAVE to be soldered otherwise you're just asking for trouble. i ended up leaving that shop because i didn't want MY name associated with comebacks that would have been easily avoidable.

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AMEN.

i utterly refuse to let a shop owner destroy MY reputation. the customers know ME, the installer, not YOU, the owner. they deal with me, not you. if there is a problem the I have to deal with it, not YOU.

I bring shops business based solely on my reputation of doing things correctly and being as honest as i can be with the people i deal with. customers respect that. people come to me that i dont even know and for whatever reason, they ask for me by name, and if that's not customer service then i dont know what is.

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cdx280 wrote:

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i didn't intend to come off as saying posting in multiple forums was a bad thing by any means. like you said, it is best to post in a couple places cuz you can get more responses. i can also say i have never personally had a no start condition based off of 2nd acc not being hooked up. and like i mentioned over on dei's board, the check engine light was the only thing that ever gave me an issue when 2nd acc wasn't hooked up.

the important thing is that it got resolved and the problem is gone. i also agree about fixing the other shops work. we get a lot of that at my shop where customers saved a couple bucks by going down the street, but then they end up spending more in the long run to have us fix it. i dont mind doing this though because we've been able to develop a better reputation - our work has far less problems and if they had someone else do the original install then they'll come to us to get it fixed. this way they also know for next time to just come to us and not even bother with the shop down the road.

as far as doing installs the way the owner wants, well, thats a whole different story. i actually quit a job after just a couple weeks because the owner would NOT let me solder. at first i just kind of dealt with it. then the first r/s i installed at his shop that needed a bypass module hooked up through data wires he actually came out and yelled at me when he saw me soldering them. i mean come on, really? data wires HAVE to be soldered otherwise you're just asking for trouble. i ended up leaving that shop because i didn't want MY name associated with comebacks that would have been easily avoidable.

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No worries. I did not take it that way either. The more eyes (so to speak) that you have looking at a problem, the chance of someone noticing something that is in error is greater.

I have never got a check engine light for the second accessory wire not being hooked up on the GM vehicles. Second ignition, yes, but not second accessory. And your post on DEI's site backs up my experience on the second accessory not usually causing a no start condition as well. But I will say, now that I have seen it, I will just wire up the relay on the bench before hand so I never run into that issue again.

I keep saying I am going to take pictures of some of the fixes that come through the door from the other shop but never seem to have a camera around when they come in. Some of it boggles my mind as to why they would do it when it actually creates more work for them.

Its hard to bite my tongue all the time when the customer asks what was wrong. I make it a point to never bash another business, but I will be honest with the customer and explain why I do it a different way.

Shawn