2011 ford flex, viper 5901 issues

Hi everyone.
Yesterday I had a Viper 5901 installed in my 2011 Ford Flex and am having issues. When he first finished up, he could not stop the factory alarm from activating when he unlocked the doors using the viper remote. He called someone and then hooked a line directing into the key area I believe. Although this stopped the alarm from triggering some other things are now happening. I plan on going back, but would like some insight if possible.

1) When I unlock the vehicle, using the Viper, it puts the car into acc mode so the nav unit, radio, lights etc come on for about 3 seconds and then cut off. Is this supposed to happen? I would not be worried, but it seems like turning any electronics on for a couple of seconds and then right back off is not good.

2) When I got home last night I noticed that every time I unlock the doors, approx 5 seconds later I get the "Remote start off" alert just like I would if I turned it off while it was running. One time it actually showed me the time remaining as if it was running. I cannot say for sure if it started or not, because it cut off again prior to me getting out there to check.

3) Not a big deal, but would they be able to prevent the tail gate from opening while the Viper is in lock mode? Really not a big deal, but I opened the gate, using the aux button on the viper, forgetting I was locked. The gate opened but the alarm went off.

Thanks again

Mike

Sounds like your unit wasn't wired properly. The Flex factory alarm should not arm itself unless you lock the door with the factory fob or activate the interior door lock switch BEFORE you close the door. (Unless they have introduced passive arming, which I'm not aware of.) The factory alarm "thinks" you are still in the vehicle when you lock it with the Viper remote and thus does not arm itself. This is because the Viper is (or should be) wired into the lock/unlock circuit that the interior switch uses. So when you arm/disarm with the Viper its as if you were sitting inside the vehicle. 1. As for the dash lights, did this usually happen when you opened the door BEFORE the Viper was installed? That is what normally happens on my 2012 Focus. If the installer hooked up the dome light supervision connection, the vehicle thinks the door has been opened when the dome light is activated, and thus would activate the dash lights momentarily. 2. No idea on your remote start message 3. The Viper should not sound an alarm if you open the hatch with the Viper fob, even if armed. The factory alarm would sound however, if they were both armed. . I'm not a professional, but these are observations I have encountered on a couple of Ford installs I've done. Hopefully some of the pros on here will give you more insight. Good luck! 

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Hi. The dash lights came on, but the radio/nav unit never powered up just from unlocking. I also believe he wired incorrectly. It all comes down to the one wire I believe. He was trying to wire it one way and the alarm kept going off (all other items worked correctly). He then wired it into the steering column key area I believe and the alarm stopped, but the other items started. Just do not know what to tell him to look for. I think he believes this is how it is supposed to work

No, I didn't mean just unlocking the door would cause the radio/nav to illuminate. OPENING the door will cause the radio/nav (My Ford Touch) screen to illuminate for a few seconds on the 2012 Focus. I thought perhaps it was the same on the Flex. The same circuit that causes the dome light to come on when you open the door tells the MFT to illuminate. So if the dome light is activated by unlocking with the Viper fob, then that open door (dome light) signal will be sent to the radio/nav causing illumination.

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Interesting. He may have it wired correctly after all. I guess I never paid attention to the nav unit briefly coming on. Sounds like this is how it is wired. As for the hatch, I will have to look at this closer and see which alarm was triggered and why. No idea why unlocking the car sends me an autostart off message though.

You have opened my eyes a bit and actually make me feel a lot better about the install.

Thanks again

Mike

Ok, I checked everything out. My Flex illuminates the dash lights only upon opening the door. With the Viper, unlock actually starts to move my seat into position, starts to bring up the nav screen, heat/ac etc. Just like the key is turned to ACC mode. Does this for about 2 seconds then cuts everything off. After this, I still get the autostart off signal. Actually today it acted like it was in remote start mode and showed the count down screen. Car was actually not running, but it thought it was.

Lift gate is working like it should. Something is just wired wrong but not sure what.

The more I read the more I wonder if they used a wrong module. I have HA stamped on the side of my key and am reading this may indicate 80bit encryption. The module they put in does not yet have an 80bit firmware update.

I've never used one of the newer modules that eliminate many of the individual wiring connections that are necessary. You could be right. If they are a reputable installer I'm sure they will figure it out and make it right for you.

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I have chatted with Directed tech service and called the installer back (1.5 hour trip to get there). He is sending me a document from Directed that states it has to be wired this way on the 2010 Ford and up to use remote start.

He said it has to trigger the acc like the key was inserted and turned which means all of my stuff fires up, including the auto seat, then cuts right back off. I really hate that part. He also said the message saying "remote start off" is supposed to be there with this set up. Wow...not sure on this, but who knows.

Looking for feedback from any Ford owners 2010 and up that have Viper remote starts installed. Do you get this feedback and all the items starting up and then cutting off?

Well I don't know about the 2011 Flex, but my 2010 Fusion isn't wired that way. The only compromise I have on my install is the factory alarm. A lot of cars have a way to wire the factory alarm so that it will disarm when you disarm the Viper. It seems that the only way to disarm (that I've been able to find) a 2010 Fusion factory alarm is with the factory fob or turning the ignition on. So when I exit the vehicle I just make sure I don't lock the car with the factory fob or by using the door buttons. That way the Viper alarm is the only one ever turned on. If the factory alarm does happen to get armed, there is a countdown warning chime when you open the DRIVERS door that gives you a chance to disarm with the factory fob or by turning the ignition key on. (It instantly sounds the alarm if any other door, hood or trunk is opened.) It sounds like they have wired it so it thinks you have turned the ignition key on, thus disarming the factory alarm. You could leave it like that or use the method I do. (Assuming the systems are the same). It's easy to tell which system is activated. Horn only = factory alarm. Horn & siren = Viper. That is how it looks to me.

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You just said it the way I was thinking. Exactly the way. He wired it to bypass the alarm by making it think there was a key in it. I wrote him back before reading your post, on the what if I didn't arm the car with the factory fob etc. Have not heard back.

Let me ask you this. Can you still arm the car with factory and not use the Viper? I ask this in the "just in case" thinking. I have my factory alarm off any way because if I keep it on and then open my lift gate, the alarm will go off. If I can still arm the car with factory and not use viper, I am going this route.

Just need to know the downsides.

Sure. Just don't "arm" or lock the car with the Viper fob. (Unless the installer set it up for passive/automatic  arming, then you would have to get that reprogrammed.) He didn't really bypass the factory alarm, he is disarming it by turning on the ignition for a few seconds to simulate the driver turning the key. You will lose some of the benefits of what you paid for though by not using the Viper alarm. The Viper fob has a MUCH longer range than the factory fob. Plus being able to look at the 2-way fob and confirming the state of security and it letting you know if someone just hit your Flex. And I don't think the factory alarm has a built in shock sensor so you'd lose that benefit too. If remote start is all you really needed you could have probably gone with a Viper 5501 and saved a little green.  

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Ok. I have no intention of using the factory key fob in most situations. It was just in case something came up that I needed to. More curiosity than anything. I looked at the 5501, but I prefer the 5901 especially with the visual key fob.

Either way, thanks for your answers. I think I am going to go this route with the installer

No problem!  Good luck.

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Installer just wrote me and said he did not have it hooked into the factory alarm but rather lock and unlock only. He said it is arming itself. I wrote him back and told him that I bet he had passive/automatic arming set on. I bet you that is what it is. We shall see

Monty - One more question on passive alarm. Why would this mess with the factory alarm? I am a bit confused on how this would be an issue, but it seems like I read it in other places as well.

Are the doors locking themselves after you turn off the ignition and exit the car? It might take a few seconds to happen. If they are then passive arming has been selected. This is defineately an option on the Viper. It may be an option with the factory alarm too. I'd check in the owners manual of the Flex to verify. I don't see how the Viper can arm the factory alarm unless you arm the Viper with a door open. The Vipers settings can be changed by you if the installer didn't lock the unit with a bitwriter. If he did then you would need a bitwriter to change it. I'm pretty sure the factory alarm would be changeable by you also. Again, I'd check the manual.

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No they don't lock and he said it definitely was not in passive mode. He sent me a print showing the set up required for some Ford vehicles and it did in fact say that the only solution on certain models was to make it think you had turned the key. Not sure mine would be like this. It has the perimeter alarm, securicode but I am thinking yours had this as well. For some reason it is arming when the doors are locked with the Viper alone. The only options I have are auto lock/unlock type settings but this is only after you have been driving.

Well, I don't really know what else to suggest. Everything I've read states it arms on lock with the door open. How long are you waiting after you close the door to arm the Viper? Try waiting till the interior lights go out plus a few extra seconds. Then arm and disarm with the Viper fob. Open the door and see if the factory alarm sounds. If it does I'm stumped. If it doesn't, you will have to wait till interior lights go out to arm. Just a thought. Make sense?

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Confirmed - Alot of Fords mid-way in 2010 on up lost there factory Dis-arm wire. This wire ran from the drivers door key cylinder and was often tapped into to disarm the factory alarm. According to the Ford Handbook that comes with the car, The only way to dis-arm the factory alarm now is with the keyfob or by starting the car with a valid key if the keyfob is lost/broken.

Try it, Lock your doors using the factory remote and wait 1 minute. Put the key in the drivers door cylinder and unlock the door and open the door without using the keyfob. You should hear some kind of chiming going on when you open the door. After about 5-10 seconds of chiming the factory alarm will start to go off. If you put the key in like you are about to start the car and turn it 2 clicks(you don't actually have to start it) The chiming will stop or if the alarm had triggered, it will stop.

So, what the installer did was to wire up the aftermarket device(remote starter) to duplicate the turning of the key to disarm the factory alarm. This is the ONLY way to do it. Its just how Ford made their car. It will not hurt anything in the car by powering the ignition on for a few seconds.

Now for the issue of "not" using my keyfob to lock the car, so he can disconnect the powering of the ignition. This is a false statement with Fords, and trust me you need the disarm setup regardless if you use your keyfob or not. The factory alarm not only arms from the factory keyfob, but if ANY door/hatch is open and you lock the doors. This means if you are getting out of your car and you have passengers, and you didn't realize that not everybody has closed their respective doors or hatch yet. You lock the doors with the 5901 remote with one of those doors still open. Guess what? you just armed the factory alarm and didn't even touch the factory FOB. Now what happens, you return from the car and unlock using the 5901 remote just the way you've done a thousand times, and the factory alarm starts blarring.

I hope I have added some important information to help you understand how Ford designed your car and aftermarket integration of the factory systems.

There is another option, loose the 5901 Remote Start/Alarm combo and go with a one button Remote Start only. No alarm. This way you are locking and unlocking with the factory keyfob. Therefore, arming and disarming the car through the factory keyfob, and only starting the car with the aftermarket keyfob. The process of remote starting will automatically disarm the alarm. You can go with the Viper 4203 or the Avital 4113 One way system.