python 5303p and smartstart

i'm working on an 08 impala, i am hooking up both a smartstart and a dball to the bitwriter port for d2d use, with a d2d y-harness. the dball functions perfectly, but i'm unable to get anything from the smartstart. there is an amber and a green led on the smartstart module,amber for indicating system status and green for comm status. the amber light shows every step and process it should, but the green comm light never even flashes once.

i've accessed the smartstart module through the installation portal, and it passes internal and network diagnostics, and reports as working, however it's entirely unable to communicate with the alarm. i've attempted removing the dball and using a straight harness to the alarm brain, and still nothing. i've tried a different harness, swapping plug ends, the only thing i've not tried is another smartstart module.

any ideas?

the smart start plugs into the bitwriter port (esp) and not the dsd that the control module hooks to.

it does and i did.  both the xpresskit dball and the smartstart module connect to the bitwriter port on the alarm brain, with a y-harness.  the alarm brain is obviously capable of a d2d connection as the dball functions flawlessly (i've never done one of those before, but holy hell that was a 5wire install for a fully featured remote starting trunk popping light flashing horn honking deal!) while connected to the bitwriter port.

the smart start module has a brown wire and a white wire loop which it instructs to cut one depending on the connection method.  it didn't occur to me until now to try the other wire, but connecting a DEI accessory to a DEI alarm via the bitwriter port, that's a D2D connection right?   that's the selection i made...

thanks

Smartstart and the 5303P uses the brown 4 pin plug on the smartstart to the reddish port on the 5303P. Neither the white or the brown loop get cut. If one of the loops are cut now, then you must rejoin the loop. Then power cycle the smartstart by removing power and reconnecting power.

the brown plug?  i suppose my exhaustive attempts never included using the brown plug, because i assumed d2d was the interface type.  the brown plug is for esp, correct?  i'd love to try that,  but i have the following concern:

the (red) bitwriter port on the 5303p, is currently connected to an xpresskit dball in d2d mode.  can the port handle a d2d and esp connection simultaneously, and if so, would i just splice the plug into the y-harness...? with diodes or just plain old splicing?

i'm truly appreciative of your help!

I always hardwire my bypasses. So, since I never use the D2D Port on the brain for a bypass, its always open for smartstart. From what I've read, there is no y-cable. The DB-all and smartstart use 2 different protocols, the brain autodetects when one or the other is plugged in. To use smartstart with the 5303P, you will need to hardwire(w2w) the DB-all. Also from what I read, Only the higher end Vipers(and their python counterparts) have 2 ports on them. When I do DEI because someone wants smartstart, I use the 4103, 4113 or the 5303. All of which only have one port.

i assure you there is a y-harness, as i hold it in my hand. a good google search should show them to you, even by the 10pk. i suppose i could hardwire the dball, but i'm not sure that would help, as i've tried unplugging the dball, power cycling the smartstart and the alarm brain, and plugging only the smartstart in. nothing changes.

the smartstart is capable of using BOTH d2d and esp protocols (not simultaneously), the manual is very clear on that, and i believe the dball is either d2d or w2w.

i do agree with you that the 5303 has only one port, but i read plenty of info citing the use of a y-harness to connect two d2d devices to one alarm, and again, the smartstart should at least be able to communicate with the alarm brain if it were the only module connected to the bitwriter. i understand it wouldn't be able to lock/lightflash/autostart or anything else with the dball unplugged, however i'm looking at the status led on the unit itself, and the yellow power light illuminates and cycles properly but the green comm light (still) never flashes.

thanks

on a side note, i've noticed that if i have both the 4pin serial cable and the 2pin power cable connected (on the smartstart), and then remove the 2pin power cable, the power LED remains illuminated. it does so until i remove the 4pin as well, requiring me to remove and replug both cables to visually achieve power cycle via LED. is that typical?

The smartstart talks to the 5303P in bitwriter language. The DB-all talks in DBi language. Once one of the modules is plugged into the data port, the proper language is detected and the data port on the 5303 changes over to corresponding language. The reason the y-harness is sold is so you can plug in TWO data bypasses to the 5303, Because it is 2 DBi protocols in each of the bypasses, they communicate just fine. Again, the smartstart talk in bitwriter language. If you READ the smartstart manual, it will say the D2D port is NOT to be used on any remote starter system. It goes on the explain that the D2D port on the smartstart is used to activate a bypass module in place of a remote starter. So the smartstart is activating the bypass and the bypass is starting the car and controlling doorlocks and such features. Xpresskits web site launches on the page that talks about these firmwares RSR.

Hopefully that gives you a better explanation why what you are trying to achieve WILL NOT work. You have to change your DB-All to W2W.

i'm not well versed on whichever serial languages that these devices communicate in, and i've only received the "smartstart quick reference install guide" with my dsm200, but it clearly states that by severing the brown wire loop and power cycling the unit, it would boot in d2d communication mode, as opposed to severing neither wire and operating in esp mode.  the install guide i have is here:

https://www.directed.com/smartstart/iphone/Documents/QRNDSM200_2010-08_web.pdf

perhaps there's a more indepth manual i've not received?  the dsm200 unit in question is a factory refurb/deactivated unit, so it was just the unit in a box, and i got that doc from the xpresskit website.

with the weight of the information you've given me, my new interpretation of that manual seems to indicate connecting the smartstart directly to the dball?  perhaps you'd be as kind as to review that linked document, and correct me where i'm wrong.

again, i'm in your debt for all of your assistance, and apologize if i seem curt or abrupt.

connor

Its right on the first page of the manual YOU link to. Left side, on the bottom of the gray box. AND I QUOTE:

The white connector cannot be connected
to Xpresskit module except in standalone
Datastart applications as shown below.
For all ESP systems, connect Xpresskit
module to the Directed system, not to the
SmartStart Y-adapter

According to xpresskit.com, The DB-ALL can be reprogrammed to work on your 08 Chevy Impala with the smartstart directly plugged into it, if it has a factory remote start. You would deep six the 5303P and connect the smartstart directly to the DB-ALL. When the start function is activated through your smartstart app. The smartstart will send a digital signal to the DB-all, then the DB-all will tell the factory remote start to start the car. If you have the factory remote start you will still have all the limitations of it when using the DB-All.(10minute runtime,Only 2 starts, etc)

But the above is a mood point if you don't have factory remote start. Plus the 5303P is an alarm system with 2-way keyfobs, all of which you would loose.

i suppose i misunderstood that, i did read that...  i haven't done installs professionally since about 2000, and i've missed the boat when it comes to databus systems.

here's what happened...  i purchased the 5303p with the smart start as a bundle.  it was under $200 for the pair, w/o antenna or keyfobs.  then i discovered the dball and it's massive simplification, so i added that to the program, not understanding the limitations and restrictions of combining these devices.  it seems though, that i will in fact gank the 5303 and plug the dsm200 directly to the dball, as it does have factory alarm with remote start.

i see how i've been retarded, thanks for straightening me out. 

you say "reprogrammed" to work with the smartstart directly. is that something i'll have to do with the xpresskit loader again?  out of the box it had chrysler firmware, which i flashed to the GM.

MUCH thanks again...

Yeah, You will have to reflash it again. When you first goto xpresskit.com, you will see the advertisement for RSR and RXT. Your Impala will use RXT. I have never used this firmware, so I most likely will not be able to help with it... Maybe somebody else might be able to help if you run into problems.

You know, you still have the option of leaving the DB-all flashed the way it is. Then remove the 5303P and the db-All and hardwire them together freeing up the Data Port for the smartstart....Then you will get all the benefits of the 5303P.(extended run times, unlimited starts, pit stop mode)

i will attempt the reflash.  the added features don't really amount to anything, as the pomp and fanfare (according to the end user) is doing it on his iphone...  doing all the wiring originally was my plan, however it just doesn't look fun... 4 individual door triggers to isolate, 556u transponder bypass, starterless remote start.  it's possible, but i'll just pursue this mode. 

i'm getting back into the car on friday, wish me luck!

thx

You can still use the DB-All with the 5303P, for the door triggers and transponder bypass. You follow the directions on page 4 of 9 of the db-all install manual. All the dotted line wires in blue have to be connected between the db-all and 5303p. with the D2D cable you could've ignored those wires, but since you not be using the D2D cable they now have to be connected.

yeah i didn't make the dotted connections, but i'm going to deep-six (as you so succinctly put it) the 5303 if i can, and go smartstart to dball. the features aren't important, it's mainly about the smartstart.

hopefully i can get it worked out tomorrow

well, time to close this thread. couldn't find any RSR firmware, or really any documentation on a standalone datastart application with the dsm200 and the dball. there was a brief mention of programming RFTD mode on the db-all to enable "proper" smartstart operation, but w/o python keypads (or a bitwriter), i was unable to do any programming of the dball.

in a fit of rage, i tore everything out of the car, completed the w2w schematic, and connected the ESP plug of the dsm200 to the bitwriter port on the 5303. needless to say, you were right, the hard way was the easy way after all, it works. the dball seems to have less functionality in w2w mode than d2d, but... it works nonetheless.

i found the smartstart to be underwhelming overall, with response time between 5-10sec, which seems entirely unacceptable to me. those features are neat, but seemingly should be used in tandem with RF keypads.

to sum it all up, thanks for everybody (especially flobee4) for your input, and despite what anything says, w2w on dball is king.

Since the 5303P only has 1 dataport as opposed to the more premium units (ie 5704P) which I believe has 2 you need to go W2W with the bypass module and use the Dataport for the SmartStart module.

One of my customers just ran into this same issue. As well as the whole white plug/ brown plug thing.

-------------
Sean McAuliffe
Sales Rep.
Installation Distributors

Just found this thread (thank God, seems to be saving me a hell of alot of headache, as i have the same problem on an 07 Silverado classic). My question is this tho: does anyone make a module that can simply just recieve some signal from some iphone app ( different from SmartStart ) and then trigger a ground in the vehicle? Because if so, you could bypass the smartstart module all together and just send that ground to the blue/white test ( "Activation Input" per the manual ) wire and start the car, send that signal again, and the remote start deactivates. dball works d2d then when connected to the "brain" module, and no w2w setup is needed.... does anyone make that?? and if not, why the hell not!!!???!!!