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bypass module of choice installers

Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Security and Convenience
Forum Discription: Car Alarms, Keyless Entries, Remote Starters, Immobilizer Bypasses, Sensors, Door Locks, Window Modules, Heated Mirrors, Heated Seats, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=129846
Printed Date: March 29, 2024 at 6:13 AM


Topic: bypass module of choice installers

Posted By: tedmond
Subject: bypass module of choice installers
Date Posted: December 25, 2011 at 11:12 AM

first off, merry Christmas and happy holidays to everyone here at the12volt.

I'm just curious as to what you installers stock for bypass modules? and i would like to share my experiences using the xpresskits DBALL
I personally stock:

iDataLink: ADS-AL-CA, ADS-DL, Blade-AL/TB
Fortin: Key-Override-All, Honda-SL3, EVO-CAN/ALL/CHR

the other day a Directed rep suggested I switch to the Xpresskits DBALL. I was at first hesitant... only because the xpresskits are not up to date as idatalink for platform/vehicle support. Also for the price of a DBALL compared to an EVO or ADS-AL-CA, it was significantly cheaper(almost half). I have always hardwired and will stick to it, but for the case of the half dozen viper units, these were done d2d to test ONLY.

So i took half a dozen DBALL/5901 units to test with family and or family friends cars. I install compustar personally. With that with the XK-Loader usb cable to update. The first car I took on was a 2009 Mitsubishi Lancer Ralli-Art MT. Using a viper 5901 and the DBALL in D2D(i know d2d sucks, but just testing purposes) And voila, the car does not go into reservation mode. Programs fine but it only picks up door triggers/locks/trunk release. The start portion such as tach, Ebrake, Brake Shutdown dont seem to work. So F-it, I do my traditional w2w and still no go. In the end i ended up running brake shutdown, ebrake and tach seperately to the car and it works fine. Mind you I had this car for 2 days since its a friends car.

second car (family friend): 2010 Acura MDX sport with 5901 D2D and it works as expected. All triggers, hatch, start/immobilizer, disarm/arm with oem remotes etc. Installed in about 70 mins call it luck but this is the only car that worked without problems.

third car (friend): 2010 Lancer Evo-X 5901/DBALL in D2D minus the tach, brake and ebrake which is hardwired to car. Also works as expected and i learned after the first lancer

fourth car (family friend): 2009 Honda Civic EX everything was D2D, but trunk doesn't pop so i just hardwired it. and what i don't like about this is when you start, the door unlocks and locks instantly. this prevents oem alarm from going off; whereas the idatalink ads-al-ca would just disarm via databus (CAN) and no doors would be unlocked. I verified to know it was infact the DBALL that unlocks,locks,start since when i tap the GWR to ground, it does that exact sequence (minus start)

fifth car Nissan Altima 06 (family friend). Everything works good, but no door locks. DBALL receives the command (flashing green light) but no functionality on the car. In the end i run wires into the door for door locks. car is on its way. I did my aunts 06 altima last week with an EVO-CAN and compustar and everything worked through CAN as expected, and it was wired w2w.

still have one left, so lets see what i get next.

In conclusion, the Viper 5901 is a nice unit, but sorry to all the xpresskit lovers, the DBALL is a POS from my personal experiences. I've never had issues with idatalink and fortin. Sure these pieces cost more, but in the end i never had problems which is my greatest concern, probably for any installer as well. If they tweaked the unit and possibly perfected the programming, i would consider dropping the EVO series for a DBALL replacement.

As always, share your experiences and happy holidays.


-------------
Ted
2nd Year Tier 1 Medical School
Still installing as a hobby...pays for groceries
Compustar Expert



Replies:

Posted By: dasbogie
Date Posted: December 25, 2011 at 11:55 AM
I share in your experience with the DBALL. It doesn't always perform the functions it lists for certin vehicles. The programming isn't alwlays exactly as described. D2D with DBALL and viper units stil isn't perfected. I normally stock DBALL and flcan. I choose flcan over DBALL 95 percent of the time. I have very limited experience with fortin but their install guides are well written. I have an Evo-all sitting here I've been itchin to use. I picked it up because it was the only bypass that would do Suzuki kizashi but that customer disappeared. Bottom line is in my experience with DBALL, I don't think it has the reliability the Idatalink/flash logic modules do have .

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Advanced




Posted By: jstruckman
Date Posted: December 25, 2011 at 2:44 PM
I have just been getting back into remote starts after several years out of the game also. I chose DEI bypasses at first just because they are easy to get and price So far i have had issues with the PKFM and the GMDLBP. they didnt program properly and the PKFM if it loses power at any point the vehicle will not start even with key until you unplug the PKFM. (very bad). I have used one DBALL on an 08 accord and it programmed and worked as said first try. I have two more DBALL's in stock but am planning on switching over to idatalink now that the place i buy all my bypasses from finally is stocking them and because of all the ongoing issues with DEI. i stock two DBALL's just in case one doesn't work. I really have no faith in DEI producst at this point. I have done two XK05's and they have programmed and worked first try also. I will be using another Xk05 in a week. I am thinking using DEI on the cars that only require bypass, just to save costs, and then idatalink when i need more then just bypass like door locks etc. that can be done through data.

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Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: December 25, 2011 at 6:13 PM
Oh, will the original owner get off of his beach in Israel or Malibu and please buy back Clifford, use IMI or Rafael to make it.
They of all people should be able to make an alarm and R/S work, I mean what's CAN compared to the electrics in a modern tank or F-16?

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.




Posted By: Twelvoltz
Date Posted: December 25, 2011 at 7:47 PM
Idata first, Fortin second for me always w2w. I install DEI 99% of the time and their d2d has never worked reliably for me. Last season I tried the DBALL in three different vehicles (Toyota, Nissan and Chevy). Not a single one worked 100% as advertised. They worked partially but I wound up doing a partial analog, partial bypass install on each.

To Howard...I second the Clifford/Avital come back request. Clifford was the best, back in the day.



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Installer, IT support, and FFL. I need less hobbies.




Posted By: jonyb
Date Posted: December 25, 2011 at 8:35 PM
Idata has worked really good for me lately in d2d.  I've got an install coming up in a car with a DBALL, and I dread it...

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John Bauer
Pro Installz
Paducah, KY




Posted By: metz35
Date Posted: December 25, 2011 at 9:07 PM
I use nothing other than Idatalink blade AL that's all I stock. And if you order enough in my case 400-600 at a time there not really that expensive. I paid around 16,000$ for 400




Posted By: another-kelly
Date Posted: December 25, 2011 at 11:05 PM
how bout this, i counted our bypasses last week to check against what inventory showed. we had 100 FLCAN's (nearly identical to an ADS-AL-CA) and only 10 DBALL's. the few times i've messed with DBALL's it has been a less than desirable experience.




Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: December 26, 2011 at 11:56 AM
My post was rather tongue in cheek but my goodness, Clifford up to G4 was clunky but bulletproof. I'm still pulling 15 year old Eagle and Eagle ll from vehicles, nothing wrong, just can't get the remotes any more.
Bullet proof simple programming fabulous build quality.

-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.




Posted By: tedmond
Date Posted: December 26, 2011 at 1:01 PM

for the price difference, i now see why idatalink and fortin modules cost so much more.

still waiting for another vehicle to use the DBALL on.



-------------
Ted
2nd Year Tier 1 Medical School
Still installing as a hobby...pays for groceries
Compustar Expert




Posted By: id sean
Date Posted: December 26, 2011 at 3:08 PM
I usually recommend my customers stock the ADS-ALCA, ADS-TB, and the Fortin EVO-ALL for their new Nissan PTS firmware . You have almost every vehicle covered with the best modes of installation

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Sean McAuliffe
Sales Rep.
Installation Distributors




Posted By: id sean
Date Posted: December 26, 2011 at 3:18 PM
the Xpresskit PKTX is great if you do a lot of new Fords or Toyotas with 80 bit key. It is a 1 step process as opposed to the ALCA which is a 2 step process.

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Sean McAuliffe
Sales Rep.
Installation Distributors




Posted By: shortcircuit161
Date Posted: December 28, 2011 at 2:27 PM
I've always used DEI bypasses and RS/alarms (better cost and reliable for the most part). I have noticed recently though that Idatalink has A LOT more features that can be controlled compared to DEI and packed into a much smaller package. And in some cases, Idatalink and Fortin were the ONLY ones with a solution for my install. I'm considering switching to Idatalink or Fortin. But to be fair, even though I always connect the brake shutdown and parking light wire directly when possible, all the installs I've done with DB-ALLs have worked well and with D2D connected to the RS/Alarms.




Posted By: sidone
Date Posted: December 31, 2011 at 3:31 PM
Can anyone tell me if a DBALL will work D2D with an AutoPage RS?

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Steve




Posted By: id sean
Date Posted: January 02, 2012 at 8:36 AM
i am pretty sure dei and autopage use the same protocol but don't quote me on that

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Sean McAuliffe
Sales Rep.
Installation Distributors




Posted By: kreg357
Date Posted: January 02, 2012 at 9:58 AM

Not sure which AutoPage unit but it looks like they only do iDatalink bypass modules.

This excerpt from the C3RS665 Install Guide :
H9. RS232 C I 3 SERIAL TWO-WAY DATA PORT CONNECTION:
This connector is to be used for Serial Data communications with
idatalink modules by Auto Page only! DO NOT CONNECT THIS TO
ANY OTHER WIRING

This excerpt from the C3 RS 601 Install Guide :
H8. RS232 C3 SERIAL TWO-WAY DATA PORT CONNECTION:
This connector is to be used for Serial Data communications with I-Datalink modules by Auto Page only!
DO NOT CONNECT THIS TO ANY OTHER WIRING!

This excerpt from the C3 RS 730 Install Guide :
H2. RS232 C I 3 SERIAL TWO-WAY DATA PORT CONNECTION:
This connector is to be used for Serial Data communications with idatalink modules by Auto Page only!
DO NOT CONNECT THIS TO ANY OTHER WIRING!



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Soldering is fun!




Posted By: sidone
Date Posted: January 02, 2012 at 3:39 PM
Thanks for the info. I ripped the DBALL out and ordered an iDataLink. I couldn't get the DBALL to work correctly. It acted like it programmed but every time I moved the key fob out of the area, the "no key" light would light up on the dash. 2 days down the drain.

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Steve




Posted By: phil6710
Date Posted: January 03, 2012 at 11:33 PM
I stock Idattalink only ,,The ALCA and the TB. And at a priceof 46$ and 32$ I think that is cheap considering how well they work and the time they save. Although I still bypass most security systems with a relay and an extra key, IF the customer wants to save money on the install, which most do. Fortin has good stuff too but Idatalink works flawlessly with Compustar and Scytec which is what I mostly sell. I hate the dei,trilogic crap. Tried it used it hate it. If one company like DEI makes or owns the bypasses why dont they work data to data? There should be no compatability issues. You shouldent have to do wire to wire ever. Come on its only software and it could be corected to work so why is a problem? 

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Solartech Window Tinting and Electronics,contract installer




Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: January 04, 2012 at 2:49 AM
DEI don't make the by-passes, they bought out the Canadian company that did. Fortin refuse to supply them.
It's even more complicated here, we have to import US specific product and sometimes it simply won't work here. Because of previous Ford ownership, UK hot Focus models use the Volvo T5 turbo engine and push to start ignition systems, as do some Land Rovers, plus keyless go, I know that one was a nightmare for DEI Europe to get right.

-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.




Posted By: tedmond
Date Posted: January 04, 2012 at 7:38 AM
Fortin will work with any unit w2w, but only d2d with a few specific models.

the idatalink will work with d2d protocols from compustar, autopage, DBI (Directed) when flashed appropriately.

Not a fan of using d2d, sure it saves so much time, but in the end if problems arise, you spend more time troubleshooting or going back to w2w

-------------
Ted
2nd Year Tier 1 Medical School
Still installing as a hobby...pays for groceries
Compustar Expert




Posted By: enice
Date Posted: January 04, 2012 at 7:30 PM
We use idatalink exclusively. That doesn't mean i don't check fortin once in a while. Certain solutions I prefer Fortin over idatalink and some vehicles are Fortin only.

That said... I barely ever have issues with D2D using compustar parts. It is very important to look at the compatability on the install sheet and not the idatalink page.... I have read that there was issues with autopage D2D mode but not with compustar. BLADE AL are AWESOME to use with compustar systems!!!!!!




Posted By: id sean
Date Posted: January 04, 2012 at 7:55 PM
iDatalink definitely plays nice with DEI systems. Fortin has the best Nissan/Infiniti PTS solution. Xpresskit has a good solution for 80 bit keys in the PKTX. 1 step process vs the Klon for iDatalink.

-------------
Sean McAuliffe
Sales Rep.
Installation Distributors




Posted By: Satkunas
Date Posted: January 05, 2012 at 1:07 AM
The PKTX is a rebadged Fortin EVO-RIDE.

D2D/DBI Firmware is also now available for the Fortin EVO-ALL and EVO-CAN. You'll need a Flashlink Updater to reflash the firmware. Both great alternatives to the DB-ALL.




Posted By: timmerk
Date Posted: May 14, 2016 at 9:29 PM
Any updates in 2016? Wondering how the Fortin EVO-ALL compares to DEI's DBALL2. I'n hoping Fortin is still preferred and more reliable because I really want to support them over Directed. Fortin seems to have much better customer service and policies.




Posted By: rs specialist
Date Posted: May 16, 2016 at 1:11 PM
I use Fortin all of the time. They come pre-flashed for many vehicles and the EVO-ALL can be an integration module for a remote start, a stand alone remote start (low current vehicles) a stand alone alarm or a stand alone remote start and alarm (again for low current vehicles) The EVO-Combo kits form Crutchfield also come preprogrammed for that vehicle as a 3 times lock start as well as 15 min run time and for either a Fortin or CrimeStopper RF kit.




Posted By: brownsfan1
Date Posted: May 19, 2016 at 8:31 PM
Idatalink/Flashlogic, Fortin Directed. In that order. If you do this for a living it is almost needed to use all 3. Especially if you do new car dealership work. I honestly only use the DBALL2 for RSR installs and only if the other 2 don't do what I need.





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