avital 5303 or viper 350 responder.

Hello every one,
**I am fairly new to the forums but not new to electronics. However, this will be my first alarm install.

**My car: 1990 Honda Accord LX Sedan. All stock with no security option from factory. No mods or kill switches installed.

**Budget without accessories or installation as I will do it myself, $120. Both of the system listed below is about the same cost on Amazon, I understand doing it myself, I won't have any warranty, thus I want to choose DEI products and hope it will last.

**The alarm systems that I am trying to decide:
Viper 350 Responder
vs.
Avital 5303

**The only difference that I can see is the remote start which is optional and I could do without and I know it's easier to install. I would like to see if either of the system pro and cons, like range of remote, quality, and other options that I might have overlooked.

***Accessories that I am considering: Trunk release: would a simple actuator works or do I need the stronger solenoid system? Motion sensor, battery backup, I heard that the 520T battery backup might have issues with the battery not lasting longer than 10 minutes, thus, any battery upgrade option? Glass break sensor: Do really need this if I already have the motion sensor?
What other accessories should I be considering? I like the window modules but having 4 doors, I have to get 2 modules right? Or is there a way to wire it so I could get away of spending on one module?

**I already have the wiring scheme from this site and my final step is to decide which system.

**IMPORTANT: any one has install a security system with remote start on this particular car before, Accord 90-93, that might have some useful tips or advices, to help the installation go smoothly, please post here so I and any one else could learn and use.

***Questions and confusions:
1) Door triggers: I know each door has it's door switch which can be trigger to the alarm. Is there a one trigger wire that will trigger the alarm when any of the doors opens? I would imagine it's the same trigger wire to the dome light? Important question is, would the trigger works if the come light switch is set to off and on? Or does it have to be set to doors at all times?

2) Relays: Do I need any extra external relays? If so how many based on the features I would like to have above?

3) Blocking diodes, where can I get them locally, and what specs I need to have on them?

4) I know all of the wiring could be connected by going behind the fuse box harnesses without needing the ignition modules. Is this recommended or should I go to both the ignition and fuse box? The advice I picked up somewhere is that going to fuse box only is better to delay the professional thief from disabling the system.

5) Stealth install: I would think the limitation is the length of the wires from the alarm brain. Let's say I want to put the brain and all relays under my driver's seat, would the wires from the brain and antenna reach under the seat? Or I need lots of extra wires to run to the brain for this type of stealth install?

***I thank you for reading. Any input and help is mostly appreciated.

You could probably pick up the door and trunk triggers from the instrument panel if you have warning icons for both.
Just find the 2 wires that go to neg (-) when any door or trunk is open.
Whilst you have the gauges out you will probably notice that there's lots of room behind. If so that's where you keep the alarm control unit. Very stealthy and no need for cable extensions.
You will need a hood pin switch and you WILL need a relay and 2 diodes for the trunk solenoid, not door actuator, not strong enough.
As for the units, I'm guessing without product knowledge that they are the same badge engineered product.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

howie ll wrote:

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You could probably pick up the door and trunk triggers from the instrument panel if you have warning icons for both.
Just find the 2 wires that go to neg (-) when any door or trunk is open.
Whilst you have the gauges out you will probably notice that there's lots of room behind. If so that's where you keep the alarm control unit. Very stealthy and no need for cable extensions.
You will need a hood pin switch and you WILL need a relay and 2 diodes for the trunk solenoid, not door actuator, not strong enough.
As for the units, I'm guessing without product knowledge that they are the same badge engineered product.

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I have taken the gauge cluster off before to fix a meter on it. There's no room behind the cluster. But I know where I am going put it probably under the shifting cover or right in the middle of the console. I have a metal cover for the main brain unit but I wonder if it over heats if I bolt the cover over the brain?
I am ordering about 4 or 5 relays, are those enough or should I order more just in case. Where can I get the block diodes locally? What specs should I look for? Does the amps really matter on the diodes?
Thanks.

1N4004, you should diode every alarm output wire going to a relay coil.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

howie ll wrote:

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1N4004, you should diode every alarm output wire going to a relay coil.

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Do you mean that every external 5 pin relay that I add on, I should have a Diode for it?
Thanks.

howie ll wrote:

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1N4004, you should diode every alarm output wire going to a relay coil.

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And how should I wire it for my car?
Thanks.

Well normally the ouput from an alarm is negative going, so the band of the diode will always be facing the alarm side when connecting to the relay.

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COMMIT YOUR WAY TO JEHOVAH AND HE WILL ACT IN YOUR BEHALF. PSALMS 37:5

t&t tech wrote:

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Well normally the ouput from an alarm is negative going, so the band of the diode will always be facing the alarm side when connecting to the relay.

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According to this diagram, would it be the other way around for a negative trigger? The band you mean the lighter stripe?
Thanks.

howie ll wrote:

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You will need a hood pin switch and you WILL need a relay and 2 diodes for the trunk solenoid, not door actuator, not strong enough.

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-What is the hood pin switch for? Use it as the trunk feed back trigger?
-As you mentioned, I need a relay, that means the brain does not have the relay built in.
-The 2 diodes, is it for the single wire hood trigger from the alarm brain and the trunk trigger? I am a little confuse there. Could you explain more clearly?
I found this thread for my car, and apparently the simple actuator will work. But I still need a relay right?
Sorry for all of the questions, but I want my first alarm install to go right.
Thanks for the help and patient.

Don't attempt this you are going to fry your alarm and your car, why do I say this, because of your first statement about knowing electrics.
Why do we diode the coil of the relay?
Why would you need a hood switch?
Come on.

-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Try the actuator, but you will still need a 5 pin relay to operate it.
Hood switch is for protection.
Diodes prevent shutdown feedback from the relay coil.
You should only need 1 relay and 1 diode for the trunk release, 2 diodes for joining trunk trigger and hood pin switch.
N.B. Trigger
Door, hood etc. tell your alarm if one of these has been opened.
Locks used in that sense they trigger a relay, usually low current pos (+) or neg (-)from the alarm.

-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

howie ll wrote:

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Diodes prevent shutdown feedback from the relay coil.

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-It's been a while since I review my physics. 1992 I think. I was just trying to remember how the signal is flowing in the blocking diode.
I read the terms "striped" and "band", how are these different? "Striped is the white line on the black diode which gives you the short side cathode and the longer side anode right? Now the term "band" is it the anode side of the stripe?

howie ll wrote:

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N.B. Trigger

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What's N.B. stand for?

howie ll wrote:

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Door, hood etc. tell your alarm if one of these has been opened.

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Now my car has the door and trunk open warning in the gauge cluster, I could use the signal wires from those right? For the doors, I think it's easier to wire it to the warning signal wire to trigger then to wire to individual switches of each door and a diodes.
For the trunk, instead of the pin switch, I could use warning signal wire to trigger the alarm.

Keyless remote access:
I notice some car remote, you press once it unlocks only the driver's door. Press twice and it unlocks all the doors. Is that a feature in the alarm or the car must have that feature for the alarm to use it? I know my car can only open the driver's door with the key and use the inside switch to open all doors.

Thanks.

Band = stripe, denotes the cathode or pos side. If for instance you want a pos to go from left to right the band is on the right.
If you want neg from left to right then the band is on the left.
N.B. = Latin for Note Well.
I already told you to use the instrument cluster for door AND trunk triggers. You either can't read or don't listen, I'm not sure what's worse in a would be installer
You will need to find your driver door unlock motor wire and an extra relay.
In the following diagram purple denotes the driver unlock wire in the DKP and note the two diodes:-
honda.bmp

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

howie ll wrote:

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I already told you to use the instrument cluster for door AND trunk triggers. You either can't read or don't listen, I'm not sure what's worse in a would be installer

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Lol, I can handle that. As long as you feed me the info I need.
Hey, I really appreciated this info you are giving me.
The way you are giving me info is like my Dad used to teach me how to make my hand writing perfect. Good memories. Lol.

I'm probably old enough to be your Dad! My grandson is 14.
That last diagram is WRONG!.
Look at this I've transposed the 2nd. unlock and unlock wires.
The driver door lock wire is possibly WHITE/ red but TEST.:-
6DZ_honda.bmp
And this is how to do the roof:-
7AB_honda_roof.bmp

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

howie ll wrote:

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That last diagram is WRONG!.
Look at this I've transposed the 2nd. unlock and unlock wires.
The driver door lock wire is possibly WHITE/ red but TEST.:-
6DZ_honda.bmp
And this is how to do the roof:-
7AB_honda_roof.bmp

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I don't have a sun roof so I won't worry about it for now. The first wrong diagram seems more digestible, but it's wrong. The 2nd "6DZ_honda.bmp", I need some time to digest it.
I am going to take a break from studying this to rewiring my car audio system.

Thanks Dad. Lol.

If my car doesn't have the priority lock feature, could I wire it in if the alarm has the 2nd unlock wire? If yes, then how to connect the relay?
Thanks.

Again I already showed you that.https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/uploads/6DZ_honda.bmp

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

howie ll wrote:

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Again I already showed you that.https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/uploads/6DZ_honda.bmp

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Let me make sure I read the diagram correctly. For the first click opening just the driver's front door,
1) Alarm brain unlock wire goes to a diode to relay switch #85. #30 goes to the door, 87a goes back to the car unlock wire, #86 and #87 go to a fused 10A constant 12V.

Second click with all doors open is where I am a little weary:
1) 2nd unlock wire from the alarm brain to BLACK/ white to lock or BLACK/ red to unlock? So this is a direct connect to the car wires without any relay or diodes.
What's "DKP" stands for?

Thanks.

2nd. click yes. Now you understand it.
DKP = Driver's kick panel.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

howie ll wrote:

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2nd. click yes. Now you understand it.
DKP = Driver's kick panel.

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Oh yeah. Most likely I'll wire it to unlock with BLACK/ red. I don't think I have seen double click to lock with the convenience.

Thanks Dad. Lol.
So what's for diner?

Any one knows the 2 way range on either of the alarm system? Viper responder 350 vs Avital 5303? I think the Viper is 1500 feet. Not sure about the Avital.

Thanks.

Get it right, I'm 8 hours ahead and it was pasta and Russia V Czech Republic (soccer) sweet FA on telly otherwise, how many times can I watch Bridesmaids?
Ref: 1500ft, you'll be lucky, about 300 in the city, remember these two are 2-3 generations old.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

howie ll wrote:

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Get it right, I'm 8 hours ahead and it was pasta and Russia V Czech Republic (soccer) sweet FA on telly otherwise, how many times can I watch Bridesmaids?
Ref: 1500ft, you'll be lucky, about 300 in the city, remember these two are 2-3 generations old.

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I went to school in Stafford, England for 2 years. Love it there. Don't have to lock my doors. Very peaceful. Every one there was so really nice. The only bad thing was every thing closed at 5:30PM. Would love to go back for a vacation.

2-3 generations old. So what is consider the current for these 2 brands? What is the most current and brand for that matter? 2-3 generations old and they have them on their sites as current. I bet the most current costs an ear and a nose. Lol.

Thanks Dad.

Compustar but it works, is reliable and costs a lot more, again get what you pay for, garbage in, garbage out.
do it on the cheap, loads of sensors and life will be a nightmare.
Warwick is a very sleepy place, I'll be passing through on Wednesday, job in Coventry and on to my Sis in the Cotswolds.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

howie ll wrote:

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do it on the cheap, loads of sensors and life will be a nightmare.

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So what are the ideal sensors to have on the 2 mentioned systems?
Thanks.

Already answered, try to stick with one thread please.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Hey Dad,
Would you say these 2 systems are the same with the exception of the remote start?
I want to add on other layers of anti theft, would kill switches good ideas? Any example or good suggestions?
Thanks.

Yes, they are the same AFIK, you seem want to want to do lots of things, one at a time, OK you've asked lots of questions, many of these would have been answered by on-line brochures or a visit to a local car security shop, meanwhile you haven't actually done anything, so please no more silly questions.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

OK. I am looking closely at the 2 systems and I noticed the Viper Responder does not have the 2nd unlock wire. My car does not come with an OEM priority unlocking system, can I still wire it to do it with the Viper 350 if it does not have the 2nd unlock wire? If yes, then how would I do that?

Thanks.

Use an aux.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

howie ll wrote:

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Use an aux.

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So do I still use the "6DZ_honda.bmp" diagram? But instead of the second unlock wire, I use an aux output? Do I need a relay for that? Would the remote still works the same, one click for driver's door and 2 clicks for all doors?
So will this
thread, post #4 works for it? But use an Aux instead of the 2nd unlock wire?
Thanks.

Yes, you press unlock then press aux, not 2 clicks.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

The shock sensors. In system with built in brain shock sensor vs those with external shock sensor, are there any advantages and disadvantages between the 2 systems?
Thanks.

howie ll wrote:

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Again I already showed you that.https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/uploads/6DZ_honda.bmp

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Hi Howard,
If I do it like this, will I still retain the OEM switch function in the car? Right now, my driver's side and passenger's side switch will open all doors. So if I wire it with the relay for door priority, will I still can use the internal OEM door switch on the driver's side to open all doors if I manually flip it?

Thanks.

Yes.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

howie ll wrote:

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Yes.

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Hey Thanks.

Another question for you. The alarm has the relay included for the starter kill. I don't want to cut the starter wire, but instead I want to kill the main relay ground which would kill the fuel and ECU instead. Would I use the 2 wires from the brain as if I would use for the starter kill? One to the main relay and the other wire to the ground post? I also going to wire a kill switch with the ground relay and hide it some where else as well just for extra layer of protection.

Thanks.

NOT SAFE!
The joints might open whilst driving.
I will give no advice on this save don't do it!


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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

howie ll wrote:

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Again I already showed you that.https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/uploads/6DZ_honda.bmp

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Question Howard,
Would you explain to me why are the 2 diodes needed?
Thanks.

Yes, there's a chance shutdown relay feedback spike will fry your alarm-R/S brain otherwise.
Read the diode section on this site.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Thanks for the reply Howard.

I have 2 more questions if I may:
1) Priority unlock: with the required relay at the driver's door, I have to run the unlock wire into the driver's door right? Or is there a way around it not having to run the wire?
I am not sure I asked this question but doing it this way, I would still retain the OEM switch lock function as before the wiring in of the relay?

2) Scanning DEI LED 629L, I want to add that to the LED already on my antenna. The tech support recommends to ground it to the orange ground when arm wire. Do I need to diode isolate it? If yes then stripe toward LED right?

Thanks.

Never mind about the scanning LED, I found this thread.
Thanks.

1) Driver's KICK PANEL. and yes you will retain original functions if wired correctly.
2) Band away from LED.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

howie ll wrote:

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1) Driver's KICK PANEL. and yes you will retain original functions if wired correctly.

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I found the plug for the lock and unlock function. It's the little gray 2 pin plug under the carpet with blue tape around the wire harness. But the plug is for all doors lock and unlock. When you say the driver's kick panel, would the wire just for the driver's door unlock be there so I can get the relay in between the actuator and the switch?
I am working of your 6DZ_honda.bmp

Thanks.

Yes if the control unit is in the car, if it's in the door, enjoy yourself! Don't ask me I haven't been near one since about 91.
You could try tracing back from what you found.
Personally I find priority unlock a waste of space.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.