Printer Friendly Forum Posts - viper 5704 alarm 1st alarm attempt

Hello,
I have an 86 buick regal grand national (sub model from Buick regal) and I had my alarm installed professionally, but I have moved and the installer did not hook upnthe trunk release feature.

I am trying to hook up this feature but I am not sure exactly what wires to use on the viper module. From the wiring information sheet for my car on this website it says:
Trunk pin ----- light blue (-) --------trunk switch

On the viper diagram, which of the following wires on the viper module do I hook the factory trunk wire to:
24 pin connector:
1. H2/5 ------ RED / WHITE ------- (-)200mA TRUNK RELEASE OUTPUT
2. H2/19 ----- BLUE -------TRUNK PIN/ INSTANT TRIGGER INPUT (N/O or N/C)

Will I need an relays? Will I need to program the remote to allow the new trunk feature to work (it will have to use the AUX button)?

I very good with my hands but this is my VERY 1st time messing with alarm wiring. Am I in over my head, and should just take it to a professional?

THANKS!

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Wiseman118

Trunk pin or trigger and trunk release are two different items.
The blue trunk trigger at H2/19 should if a competent installation be already installed.
As for the trunk release, you will need a standard automotive type Bosch/Tyco automotive relay, a 1N44004 diode (mandatory, it protects the 5704 from spiked feedback voltage), band towards the 5704 as shown in the diagram.
You will also need 3 faston blue (87,87a and 30), 2 faston red, for 85 and 86 and a good crimper.
You will also need some solder, an iron and heat shrink.
All above available from Radio Shack.
Your existing release switch will have a constant power feed, use that to power your relay.
On the diagram please follow relay pin configuration exactly.
regal_trunk.bmp

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Thanks for Your help Howie II. This info surely helps me a bunch.

Once I have everything wired up, will the remote recognize the trunk release automatically (by pressing the AUX button)? Or will I have to do some kind of remote control programming?

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Wiseman118

If AUX is the default button for trunk release then that's it. Remember you have to press that button for about 2 seconds before anything happens.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Hi howie II,
   I have gotten myself into a pickle here. I looked at the alarm module today and began the trunk open feature hook up per your above instructions. Here are the results:

1. The professional installer did not have the H2/5 (RED / WHITE) and the H2/19 (BLUE) wires connected. These wires were just cut short. The RED / white wire is trunk release output (-) and the blue wire is the trunk pin/ instant trigger input.

2. So, I followed the diagram and your instructions exactly.
   A) I added the diode with the cathode strip positioned towards the alarm (5704). This
        wire (H2/5 trunk release output, red / white) ) was connected to pin 85.
   B) Pin 86 was connected to a constant 12v source.
   C) Here is the tricky part, pin 87a and pin 30 were then sliced / teed'd the light blue
        (- ) (trunk switch) from the car harness (under the steering wheel column.I can hear the relay "clicking" on and off when I press the "aux" button to open the truck.

The wires on the back of the factory trunk button are brown (+) and black (-) and only get power when the switch is turned on.

Please help, thanks!

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Wiseman118

Test the black and brown at the switch with the ignition on (NOT engine running), one will go to POS (+) only when you press the button. Switch side to 87a, trunk side to 30.
Did you connect 87 to 86?
Pin 87a is NOT connected to the blue wire.
H2/19 goes to the trunk lock switch trigger which brings on the trunk light or the wire to the trunk light which switches to NEG (-).
That blue wire has nothing to do with trunk release, it simply tells the alarm the trunk has been opened. Please read my other post again.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

In my picture the red wire from the relay is shown joined to the power feed of the existing switch.
Since your trunk release according to you only works with the ignition, please make sure that the red wire to 87 and 86 goes to a constant live fused at 15 amps.
Again please don't confuse trunk release (RED / white) and trunk trigger, (blue). They are separate functions.
Also when you said "Teed" did you mean Scotchlocks or similar?

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

This will likely only serve to further confuse, but did the OP CUT the trunk RELEASE wire and wire in the relay as described, or merely tap 2 wires into the side of the release wire? Just an observation from a third party. Carry on posted_image

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To master and control electricity is perfection. *evil laugh*

Racer, my picture specifically SAYS CUT.
Also the word "tap" frightens me.
May be I should explain the picture for our OP:-
Go to your trunk release switch.
Find the wire that goes to 12v+ when you press it. It doesn't matter if it only works when the ignition is on.
Now cut that wire and take the switch end to 87a and the trunk end to 30 on your relay.
Via the aforementioned 1N4004 diode, band to 5704 RED / white from 5704 t0 85 of relay.
12v+ CONSTANT, i.e. always live via a 15 amp fuse to 86 and 87.
Ignore the 5704 blue wire, that's for trunk trigger, i.e. DETECTING when the trunk is opened if the vehicle is alarmed NOTHING to do with trunk release.
If this isn't understood or followed there's nought else I can say or do except think the word hopeless or the phrase "back away from your car and take it to a pro".

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

I've now even modified that diagram to show where the blue wire (H2/19) comes into it:-9FD_regal_trunk.bmp

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Sorry Howie, i was asking if the OP followed your diagram. Which is correct. posted_image

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To master and control electricity is perfection. *evil laugh*

Definitely not from his confused answer.
I love it when these newbies think everything is easy and why should they pay pros "to do a job they can do for themselves for nothing on a Sunday morning".
Yes that's an attempt at irony.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

BTW, no offence to

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Start again, posted before I finished posted_image

...
No offence meant to YOU,
I knew you understood, I misread your post.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Here are my results:
(The pushbutton switch in the glove) - there are 2 wires, a black wire and brown wire. Neither wires have power with the key in the off position. When the key is in the acc position, the brown wire has 12v power constantly applied to it. When the button is pushed, the black wire temporary applies 12v power to the switch.

Yes, 86 and 87 on the relay are connected and the relay is operating when the aux button is pressed on the remote
Here is how I have it hooked up:
1. 87 to 12v constant (from fuse block)
2. 86 to 12v constant (from fuse block)
3. 87a to blue wire (-) on factory harness (trunk)
4. 85 to H2/5 (RED / white) wire (on alarm)

With hookup that i have now, once the aux is button is pressed, 12v comes out of pin 30 On the relay.

Just a recap, so the dark blue wire on the alarm (h2/19) trunk trigger wire should not be used, correct?

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Wiseman118

Can't you read?
Why 87a to blue wire in trunk?

The black wire at the switch.
Cut it and switch side to 87a, trunk side to 30.
Enough already.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Maybe an explanation as to what the purpose of the relay is? Might as well

You are cutting the output wire of the factory switch, and sending 12v down the trunk motor side only. The switch may rest at ground, and could cause a short if the wire at the switch was not cut.

Again you are using the trunk/aux negative out from the viper brain (red white) to switch the relay. Pins 87, 87a and 30 are what will separate open the CUT trunk release wire at the switch and send 12v to the trunk release motor side only.

Let me reiterate for the last time before this thread goes downhill, and I am repeating what Howie has said several times. Forget about the trunk pin wire in this scenario. It has nothing to do with popping the trunk via the remote control.

Get this fixed THEN we can help you fix that issue if you wish.

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To master and control electricity is perfection. *evil laugh*

howie ll wrote:

Racer, my picture specifically SAYS CUT.
Also the word "tap" frightens me.
May be I should explain the picture for our OP:-
Go to your trunk release switch.
Find the wire that goes to 12v+ when you press it. It doesn't matter if it only works when the ignition is on.
Now cut that wire and take the switch end to 87a and the trunk end to 30 on your relay.
Via the aforementioned 1N4004 diode, band to 5704 RED / white from 5704 t0 85 of relay.
12v+ CONSTANT, i.e. always live via a 15 amp fuse to 86 and 87.
Ignore the 5704 blue wire, that's for trunk trigger, i.e. DETECTING when the trunk is opened if the vehicle is alarmed NOTHING to do with trunk release.
If this isn't understood or followed there's nought else I can say or do except think the word hopeless or the phrase "back away from your car and take it to a pro".

Howie,
I understand what you have told me thus far, but can you clarify what you mean when you say "trunk end" and "switch end". Does this refer to the factory black and brown wire that run directly to the switch (one being the trunk and the other being the switch)?

Last thing, so from the vehicle alarm wiring diagram from this site, it says the light blue wire from my harness is for trunk release (it is connected to 87a on relay). There is not a light blue wire that connects to the back of my trunk switch, so should I not worry about the light blue wire in the harness and just hook up the relay wires to the wires attached to the back of my switch?

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Wiseman118

Yes at the switch you cut the black wire.
I would have assumed switch end and trunk end were self explanatory but
switch end = towards the switch, trunk end = towards the trunk or rear of vehicle.
If you're referring to the 5704 blue wire at H2/19 yet once more?
This is the ALARM trigger feed from the trunklight (trunk switch to light absolutely nothing to do with trunk release. Look at my last diagram, it shows you ecverything.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Ok, thanks I believe I got it. I see what I have done wrong. I did not cut the trunk wire, I just spliced / tapped into it. I also need to remove the wire tap that i have on 87a from the light blue wire (trunk release) on the car harness (per 12v.com wiring sheet) and connect 87a directly to the trunk switch per your attached diagram. (This is where I guess I went wrong with following the 12v.com wiring vehicle diagram)

I will correct it when i get home this afternoon.

P.s. only reason I asked about the h2/19 was just be sure. Sorry for being redundant. Thanks for everyone's help and patience

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Wiseman118

Don't follow that diagram, follow mine, it's colour coded to your alarm and your car.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

I got it to work. I followed your diagram to the tee without using the light blue wire from the car's factory harness. It works great. Thanks

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Wiseman118

There is one more thing, a different issue:

On my car, I have a factory tach that is digital / electronic. It worked fine before I got the alarm installed, but after the alarm was installed, the tach does not function (which normally has vertical bars that move left to right indicating 0 to 6000rpm range). After the install, the tach only has one vertical bar that lights up, indicating 0rpm and that's it. (no movement to the right, no rpm readout except 0 (which only let's me know that the tach has power).

I guess that a wire from the alarm was wired into the factory tach wire and it pulling voltage away from the tach readout (just my guess). Do you have any ideas of why this is happening and any recommendations of how to fix my issue?

Thanks!

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Wiseman118

Doubt if it's the alarm, GM digital dashboards are notorious for failure, especially when 24 years old!
Tach should be picked up at distributor, PURPLE / white or white.
The alarm WILL NOT pull enough from the tach to affect it.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

I just installed this new tach part into the car a couple months ago, it is a separate stand one part that you can buy and replace by itself.

Yes, the alarm uses H2/23 (violet/white) wire for the tach input. I will look to see where it is connected at near the coil/module and make sure that the H2/23 is connected to the PURPLE / white or white wire as you mentioned.

The autostart feature is hooked up and working correctly, so if the tach wire (H2/23) is hooked to the wrong wire, will the autostart feature still work?

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Wiseman118

I think I see what's wrong, it (wire from the alarm) is installed (sliced) on a grey wire that is attached to a green wire near the alternator. When I researched it, it says that the green wire is a tach wire that can be used to give an aftermarket gauge a tach reading. When I disconnected the tach wire (from the alarm) that was installed (sliced) to the grey wire, my dashboard tach started to function correctly.

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Wiseman118

Tach issue resolved. I removed the Alarm tach wire from the grey wire near the alternator and attached it to the white tach wire going to to the CCCI module. Works perfectly and my tach is working just fine.

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Wiseman118

Howie,
I hooked the trunk trigger up exactly per your diagram and works just fine. I hooked attached a ground wire to the light and attached to the light blue wire from the alarm.

I am having 1 more issue:

1. Does the hood trigger work (install the same way as the trunk trigger)? I hooked a ground wire to the hood light housing and attached it to H2/17 (grey wire) TRUNK PIN / INSTANT TRIGGER INPUT (N/C or N/O) (-). It is not triggering the alarm when I open the hood. Does the normally open/closed make a difference? I believe the default is set as normally open.

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Wiseman118

Install a new hood pin to the grey wire, leave it NO (NC is for Ford and Mazda).
Honestly if the original installers didn't install the trunk and hood triggers, I don't think much of them, they did half a bloody job.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

I installed a new hood pin and everything is finally working. The alarm rework in finally complete

Yes, I will agree, they did one sorry job. This is why I took things into my own hands and completed everything myself. Thanks for your help.

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Wiseman118

Hello howie II,
I am back again. I Forgot to ask about thisnlast issue I had since I and the alarm installed.

The car does not start from the key. In the beginning it did start from the key once I left the alarm shop. Then this started all at once, not allowing me to start the car from the key, but it will start using the autostart feature on the keypad. (sounds like it bumps the starter, but does not spin it over, like it cuts the power shortly after) the car started to act right and start from the key while the Brain was lowered while doing the trunk and trigger work from earlier posts, but once I tie wrapped everything back and moved the brain of the alarm back up in the dash, it started to do it again (not started from the key, but starting from the keypad). I seems like a loose wire or bad connection or maybe even the starter kill not deactivating)

Can you give some advice?

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Wiseman118

Then check all your connections. If the anti-grind starter cut was acting up you'd have dashboard lights and no starter. I've no idea from 3000++ miles away what's going on without physically looking.
With the key do the instrument lights come on but no start?
Does the starter turn but doesn't fire up?
Does your factory immobiliser light extinguish?

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Question 1: when using the key, yes the dashboard lights come on as they should with no start. The starter gets a bump, but immediately stops. Like power is supplied to it, the immediately cut off before it can catch.

Question 2: the starter doesn't make a complete turn, it gets a half sec bump or signal then stops on the first attempt to start it with the key. If u try to start it again, the dash, etc lights up (in the ACC ON position), but nothing happens when you turn the ignition back the ON position.

Question 3. Factory immobilizer light? I don't have one in my dashboard from the factory? Unless the idiot light has been out behind the dash since I have owned the car?

P.s. when i called the alarm place, the guy told me that one of the ignition wires that he hooked up may not have a good connection. I looked yesterday, and everything looks and feels tight, but one connection he had hooked up might be suspicious. It's a RED / black strip wire from the 10pin harness (h3/9) in a butt connector together with a red wire from the 10pin harness (h3/6). These 2 wires are tapped into a large all red wire from my factory harness.

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Wiseman118

It sounds like a factory immobiliser problem if there's one fitted.
Did they install a by-pass when the R/S was installed?
I don't know the US market well enough to give you a positive answer here.
In Europe, everything up to light (2.5 tonnes) commercials had to have a factory installed immobiliser from 1/1/97.
Those two wires would affect the R/S but not affect key starting.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

I don't think there is an immbolizer. My car is an 86, but i will check. I don't know if they installed a bypass but I will check with them.

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Wiseman118

No immobiliser or by-pass needed.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

You will want to check the 10 pin large wire plug and make sure it is securely seated in its plug at the viper brain. Sometimes even us pros can pull too much and have the plug offset in the connector. Just make sure its seated firmly and squarely in its home.

Check the ignition connector at the ignition switch. Typically on the older gm cars there is a large flat, or maybe 2 large flat connectors near the base of the column, typically black or gray in color. Make sure those are fully and squarely seated.

Also probe the starter wire (key side) with a DMM and see if it shows 12v while turning the key and holding in the start position. If it does not and the remote starter does the same thing, then you may have multiple 12v sources hooked up and one or more of the car's ignition fuses are blown.

If this is the case, replace the fuse, and inspect for any bare wiring or tape that may have fallen off.

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To master and control electricity is perfection. *evil laugh*

Hi racerjames76,
Thanks for the input, I will check all of those connections per your post when i get home today.

I spoke with the installation place on the phone rosay, and they said it may be a loose neutral wire. Does this sound correct? I looked alarm schematic and the only wire I found that resembled what they said is the (-) Neutral Safety Input (H2/2, BLACK/ white wire on the 24pin connector). He said it may be loose and was connected above the steering column.

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Wiseman118

Ok, I looked and checked over all the connections, harnesses, On the column and the module. Everything looked ok. There was one borderline loose connection, which was the siren output that I fixed. I checked the voltage on the key side of the starter wire (purple factory harness wire). This wire was cut and had the starter input wire (green) and starter output (violet) from the alarm connected to both of the cut ends of the cut wire the voltage was 12.3ish or so volts while turning the key (so this checked out to be ok)

Once I dug a little further, I disconnected the (+) IGNITION 1 INPUT/OUTPUT wire (H3/1 - Pink wire) from the car's Column Ignition wire (pink wire also). Once the H3/1 - Pink wire that was tapped into the factory column harness (pink wire) was disconnected, the car "started from the key." but of course the autostart feature would not work. I reversed it back to how it was by plugging the wire back in and the car didn't crank from the key but would crank from the keypad button only. So, I found the problem, but I am stuck and don't where to go from here. Something isn't right, these 2 should connect/splice into each other per my understanding of the schematics, but for some reason they aren't working together......

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Wiseman118

Hi Howie and racerjames....any thoughts of how to correct this issue?

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Wiseman118

Sure, send me an airline ticket.
And I'm not joking either, I might be psychotic sometimes but I'm not psychic, how am I supposed to guess what you've done?

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

No, i did not expect you to guess what I have done, b/c I have not done anything but found out how to get the car to start from the key, by disconnecting the ignition wire on the alarm from the car's ignition wire. I may have gave you too much info in my previous post that made it seem as though I had done something.

I simply checked all wires per racerjames advice, and figured that if it was not starting it has something to do with the starter or ignition wire from the alarm. I Unplugged the ignition wire and the car cranked, but the autostart feature did not. Attached the ignition wire again, the key didn't work, but the autostart worked. So, maybe there is a trick , method, or different wire that you could recommend me to tap into. Everything else works just fine on the alarm, I am only having trouble with the cranking part.

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Wiseman118

that is a very strange problem you have there. maybe the starter kill is somehow on when you are trying to crank with the key while everything is connected. the pink ignition on the alarm is an input and an output and the alarm uses this input to know when to activate the starter kill relay. without this input the starter kill wont activate and the alarm wont go off when someone turns the key while the alarm is armed.

you can test my theory by testing for power on the purple wire from the alarm while you are starting with the key. while you are cranking the engine you should have power on both the green and purple wires from the alarm. so if you test it and you are missing power on the purple wire but you have power on the green wire then you know you have an issue with the alarm itself. if you dont have power on either side then you have a problem with a connection somewhere between the ignition cylinder and the alarm.

edit: just re-read some of your posts and saw that you already did this but did you get 12v on both the purple and green wires during crank?

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Hello Soundnsecurity,
I now have clearer understanding of the alarm pink ignition wire. I probed the purple and green wires from the alarm while cranking. The green wire ( starter input) showed me 12.3V but the purple wire (starter output) showed 0V. So, the alarm is not sending power to the starter for some reason. Based on your earlier response, something is wrong with the alarm itself. Sounds like, I have to send the module back?

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Wiseman118

You can put the 2 halves of the cut starter wire back together and connect the output side of the remote start as a t connection.

Eliminate the starter kill this way. They are nothing but trouble and merely point out which wire to use to hotwire the engine.

my $.02 posted_image

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To master and control electricity is perfection. *evil laugh*

Let me clarify before you ask.

Disconnect everything from the purple cars starter wire. connect the 2 halves of the purple wire back together.

Connect the vipers starter output the wire that WAS attached to the car side of the cars purple wire, connect it as a T connection to the now stock again car purple starter wire.

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To master and control electricity is perfection. *evil laugh*

I understand and I will hook it up as you said when i get home.

So, ultimately, I will not have the starter kill feature any more, since i am not using the starter input wire from the alarm, correct?

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Wiseman118

Correct though green is the starter input TO the alarm.
Violet is the starter output FROM the alarm

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

I confused myself here lol

Yes howie is correct you will lose the starter kill feature, but should gain a working car.

Remember you have multiple stages of protection before anyone could get in and start hot wiring (the purpose of having the starter kill is to prevent popping the ignition lock out and starting with a screwdriver). By then the alarm should be going off full blast anyways. Besides it is much easier to hot wire the car under the hood in that car.

I was referring to the cars purple starter wire being reconnected, and t connecting the alarms green wire to it.
posted_image

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To master and control electricity is perfection. *evil laugh*

Definitely confused myself here the purple output goes to the reconnected purple wire...i quit posted_image

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To master and control electricity is perfection. *evil laugh*

P.S. I'm in total agreement with racerjames here and of course soundsecurity.
They had a batch problem with those internal starter cut/ant-grind relays going open circuit on the earlier 5901s also on the UK market Cat 1 alarms, same problem, it was an internal dry joint, sometimes worked when you tapped the case, not exactly acceptable to the customer though.
Frankly I'd rather they reverted to the older external relays, at least you could get at them in the event of problems.
Wiseman 118.
Here's the work around for your problem if you still want anti-grind and starter cut:-cut_antigrind.bmp

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Don't worry racer, I was doing my pretty drawing whilst you were posting so now we're all confused posted_image

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Oh ok, it dawn on me previously but the recent correction makes sense. T connect the green wire (starter input) wire into the factory purple starter wire (that was reconnected to make one wire again), because it has 12v coming from it. The purple wire from the alarm wouldn't work b/c there is no voltage being supplied from this wire.

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Wiseman118

You're completely wrong, my add-on relay is exactly what should happen inside the 5704.
Green is equivalent to 87a. This should constantly connect to 30 unless the alarm is activated. Then the orange at 85 which is a constant ground at 85 and the pink which goes to 86 becomes activated via hot wiring the vehicle.
This disconnects 87a from 30 thus preventing the starter from working.
In the 5704 green and violet should be constantly connected unless the ignition is activated whilst the alarm is on.
In fact green and violet AREN'T joined in your unit which is what is causing your grief and yes it's an internal fault.
Simply rejoining your cut starter wire then joining it to the violet from the 5704 will cure the problem.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Sorry howie,
Clicked submitted my post too quickly. I just saw your diagram and i have printed it out to use. I will work to this once i get home. Thanks for help.

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Wiseman118

Please don't forget the 1N4004 diode on the relay coil, band towards 86, VERY important.
Education time.
When a relay shuts down, it sends a "spike" back through 85 to ground, this can be up to 300 volts and it WILL fry the 5704!
If I'm not believed, there's a way of testing this but it's extremely painful!

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Howie,
I sat down to fimilarize myself with your diagram. I have 2 questions:

1. The orange GWA you are referring to is the orange wire from the 6pin, main harness (-) 500mA GROUND WHEN ARMED OUTPUT wire?

2. How do I add the diode to the relay? Do i solder it to a jumper wire, then connect / splice the jumper wire with the diode to wires that are on pin 86 and 85?

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Wiseman118

Howie,
Last thing I noticed, the relay in your diagram represents a 5pin relay, right? If so, there is nothing attached to pin 87. The reason why I ask, is I thought I may need to get a 4pin relay instead if a 5pin. I wasn't sure , so I just wanted to ask

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Wiseman118

1) Yes that's why I coloured the damn thing ORANGE.
2 Anyway you can that works! Solder to the terminals, crimp in with the fastons, solder to the wires on 85 and 86 etc. etc. I use first and second methods.
3) No a 4 pin is a switching NOT a changeover, you won't be connected therefore you won't be able to start.
You must use a 5 pin, aka SPCO, single pole changeover.
The more of these type questions you ask the more I worry that I'll be receiving an airline ticket shortly.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

I will let u know when i am ready to buy that plane ticket for you, but I am not ready just yet.
this is my first alarm, but i do a lot of FYI projects. I just ask a lot of questions to be sure I don't mess up. You know, the measure twice, cut once method.... posted_image

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Wiseman118

You're absolutely right, I'm having a bad week, the same daft (basic and not just you) questions keep coming up like bad pennies and I was doing my bad tempered old man routine, you got in the way so humble apologies.
Plane ticket for next week please so I can miss the (yawn) Olympics and all the traffic gridlocks that will go with it.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

howie ll wrote:

the same daft (basic and not just you) questions keep coming up like bad pennies

thats why i only answer interesting questions to keep myself from being burnt out over common stuff. but honestly, who else would answer the dull questions because if you look at it, there might be about 30 people who are on the forum regularly AND who know what they are talking about.

on a side note, why does the olympics still exist? every year they pick a different city to inconvenience and for what? the luge? professional volleyball? perhaps its to keep the athletes who have devoted their life to "sports" like badminton and curling from going crazy. end rant...

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Soundnsecurity...X 2!
The jams have already started.
Most delivery drivers are now working only nights,
the cost of the Olympics has doubled since the first estimates,
trying to turn an existing dead zone/slum around with little or no infrastructure during a financial recession.
Great.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Yeah, I hate to ask some of those very common how to questions on the forum, but since I don't commonly deal with or wire relays and alarms , I just had to ask. I first tried to search for the answer on the the12volt homepage, but didn't find anything. But, you answered my "bad penny" question so, I know how to do it from now on. That's for answering and being patient. (yeah, it sounded like you were a little frustrated in a couple previous posts, its cool. I was having a frustrating week also)

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Wiseman118

OK, we can shake hands but I still want the ticket posted_image

I have some great news, I made the connections exactly like your wiring diagr am, and it works! YES! I am so happy right now. The car cranks from the key and from the autostart. Its such a nice feeling actually be able to use the key.

The autostart works, but sometimes it seems like it doesn't turn the starter long enough for the car to crank. The autostart will always operate and turn the key on and try to crank, but if it cranks the 1st time, and i try it again, it may turn the starter over a couple times but it won't catch and crank, the lights on the dash remain on (its like sometimes, it gives up too early). Is there an 'autostart learning feature", adjustment or something?

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Wiseman118

I'm guessing but in the programming should be something like "adjust crank time".

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Well if I could get you a ticket, believe me I would. How about a beer, or a thankyou card or something? posted_image

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Wiseman118

Just joking, I just want out of this jammed up country, especially during the Olympics, supposed to cost £12 Billion, ($18B) now running at £30 ($45B), all out of our bloody taxes.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

I saw something on the news earlier this week about how congested it is over there. Not to mention all new security personnel and heightened security they have going on. a lot of people they interviewed were not too happy with the how the current plans are going. I thought that news may have been over exaggerating a bit, but I guess all the fuss that was on tv was true.

Ok, I think i see the adjustment info for the autostart. On the installation guide it is called "learning the tach." This is the only thing that looks like it is for the autostart

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Wiseman118

Again, NO!!! posted_image

You had an "issue" with the tach some while ago and you must have done it correctly or the R/S would cut out after 10-15 seconds.
Go to programming, remote start, level 3 "CRANK TIME".
It's a right PITA, the only advice is to breathe slowly and deeply and store up loads of patience.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Ok, I see it the crank time feature option on menu 3. Like the default is 0.6 secs. I may have to increase it a bit. Thanks again.

Last thing, my dome light supervision wire wasn't hooked up. This is the wire that makes my dome light flash once the alarm is triggered, correct? I would like to hook it up, just checking to see if i needed relays or something else not straight forward. Or do i just connect it to the factory harness dome light negative (-) wire (no relays, funny business, etc)

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Wiseman118

Again, NO!!! it simply holds your dome light on for about 1 minute or until the doors are shut and you turn on the ignition.
If the vehicle already has a dome light delay then it isn't needed.
If it hasn't then this:-
dome_light.bmp

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Ok, I will follow the diagram.

---another amateur question. Sorry....
I didn't see 87a in the diagram, is the relay in your diagram a 5pin (changeable relay) or a the switching 4pin?

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Wiseman118

It doesn't matter, if you use a 5 pin just don't use 87a.
On a 4 pin 30 to 87 are the switch on a 5 pin 87a and 30 change over when activated but for simplicity (I buy 20+ at a time) I use 5 pin relays and they fulfil either function.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

one thing about adjusting crank time on older cars is that it will never be perfect. you will occasionally get a non-start because the engine is cold, even with fuel injection.

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X2 with soundnsecurity, it's probably more worthwhile to give the car a service, tune-up and change the battery if more than 3 years old.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

English Ford Escort RS and Peugeot 205 GTi with early fuel injection about late 80s were nightmares for R/S, I just wouldn't do them.
You had to kick the throttle then release and they still "churned" for about 2 seconds before firing.
And they had far more sophisticated injection systems, assuming an 86 Regal was "single point" i.e. an electrically controlled carb.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

My buick regal (Grand National) is has an sequential fuel injection (SFI) system, no carburetor or form of a carb. I didnt get a chance to adjust the crank time yesterday, I got tied with some house chores. Should I leave it alone or still adjust it now that you know it has fuel injection ?

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Wiseman118

Still adjust, can't do any harm.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Howie,
Another bad penny question.... With The latest wiring diagram that you gave me (dome light supervision), I just want be sure that I reading it right when i hook up the grounds to the switch.

There are 2 wires on my door switch. One that is a continuous ground and the other that switches to ground when the door is opened (or closed , I can't remember which one). So, does the door trigger wire (h2/6) splice into the wire that switches to ground? And pin 30 from the relay attaches to the constant ground, correct?

This how an interpreting your diagram, once again... Sorry for the beginner question again.

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Wiseman118