viper 5704 / starting issues

I am not an installer. I have asked the install shop and the dealership for help but neither can seem to help me. Perhaps some of you have seen this before.

2002 Grand Caravan with key sentry and avatal remote start with key coffin has an attempted theft.
After replacing the factory Skim module and having the dealer flash it I take it to a shop to install a Viper 5704.

The shop used the existing key coffin and at pickup they tell me it will not start with the factory key. They insist its not on their end because the Viper starts it fine.

I bring it home and remove the key from the coffin and lay it on the seat. I remote start the van. I move the key away from the van and it will not remote start.

I attempt to start the van with the factory key, it will not.

I put the key in the coffin, start the van with the Viper remote and drive to the dealer.
I take the key out of the coffin at the dealer and ask them to make sure the keys are all flashed correctly.

He comes back and tells me there is no problem. All three keys start the van.

I try the remote and it fails because of the coffin with no key. I put the key back in the coffin and it remote starts.
I try the keys again and they work.

I come home and later try to start with a key and it will not start.

The remote never fails. What could it be. The engine is throwing codes because of all the attempts to start. The codes are to do with Ignition coils. The dealer reset them.

Does anything jump out at you guys?

So only way to start it is with the rs. Will the key in the box start the vehicle by turning it on the ign.
If you swap out the keys in the box will the rs work.

Thanks, It's 1:30 AM EST here. I'll try it tomorrow and get back.

Almost sounds like the "key in the box" is always ON.  That would allow the R/S to work but a
regular key start wouldn't because the van sees 2 keys at the same time.

What brand / model "key in the box"?

Can you verify the GWR ( aka Viper (-) 200mA Status Output ) connection to the "key in the box"
is correct and working properly?

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Soldering is fun!

OK, for some reason I cannot get it to repeat the key starting to work. Yesterday I removed the key from the coffin and it worked but this AM none of the keys will start the van rather a key is in the coffin or not.

Also, the Viper remote works as it should, starting the van with a key in the box, and not starting it if a key is not present in the coffin or ignition. If a key is in the ignition and not the box it starts. The same if reversed.

So, My main issue here is the keys alone will not start the van no matter what. For some reason they worked at the Mopar dealership.

Bad coffin?

Before the theft, and after I replaced the OE Skim, the Avital remote start and the Keys worked.
I go to the shop and leave with a working Viper 5704 and no key starting.

The shop is being very unwilling to get aggressive in finding the issue saying their Viper install works and the issue is mine.
But the Math says I go in with key starting and depart with out key starting. Ugh!
I keep waiting for them to say let us take a look. But they act as if it will be a service they should charge me for to find it, or as if they are as puzzled as I am.
There has been no ill tempers shown, I just keep my mouth shut and cut my losses.

Here is a pic of the coffin and the keys. All this worked fine before the Viper 5704 install.

If you can tell me what to look for I can do it. Thank You.

     

I have a FLUKE meter if needed to check status of the wiring.

Thanks!

Me again. I took a meter to it.

6-Pin Harness:
Red Wire has constant 12v.
Blue Wire has 11.63v until started via remote then .63v.
Pink Wire Not Terminated.
Black Wire goes to ground OK.
Violet Not Terminated.
Green Wire Not Terminated but shows 11.33 all the time.

3 Pin Harness:
RED / BLACK/ Black-White
No voltage but they all ring out no matter what combination I cross them in.

The antenna is oriented correctly circling the front of the OE transponder.

As Gladiator Maximus, Decimus, Meridius would say "Are You Entertained?

Drove the van to get a haircut today. All these starting attempts has had the dash displaying the Engine light icon. The dealer reset it the other day. After trying different scenarios over and over I made it come on again.

I came out from the cut and tried the key, it started...... Argh, I did not dare try it again. I will in the AM when I leave for work.

And the engine light was off.

Try this to determine if a OE key was erased and is causing your problem. Use the 2 known good OE dodge keys.


"Customer Learn" Mode
This feature is only available on domestic vehicles or those which have a U.S. country code designator. This procedure requires access to at least two valid Sentry Keys. If two valid Sentry Keys are not available, Sentry Key programming will require the use of a DRB III scan tool.

The steps required to program Sentry Keys with two valid Sentry Keys follows:

    Obtain the blank Sentry Key(s) that need to be programmed. Cut the keys to match the ignition lock cylinder mechanical key codes.
    Insert one of the two valid Sentry Keys into the ignition switch and turn the ignition switch to the ON position.
    After the ignition switch has been in the ON position for longer than three seconds , but no more than fifteen seconds , cycle the ignition switch back to the OFF position. Replace the first valid Sentry Key in the ignition lock cylinder with the second valid Sentry Key and turn the ignition switch back to the ON position. The second valid Sentry Key must be inserted within 15 seconds of removing the first valid Sentry key
    About ten seconds after the completion of Step 3, the indicator light will start to flash and a single audible chime tone will sound to indicate that the system has entered the "Customer Learn" programming mode.
    Within sixty seconds of entering the "Customer Learn" programming mode, turn the ignition switch to the OFF position, replace the valid Sentry Key with a blank Sentry Key transponder, and turn the ignition switch back to the ON position.
    About ten seconds after the completion of Step 5, a single audible chime tone will sound and the indicator light will stop flashing and stay on solid for three seconds and then turn OFF to indicate that the blank Sentry Key has been successfully programmed. The SKIS will immediately exit the "Customer Learn" programming mode and the vehicle may be started using the newly programmed Sentry Key.

These steps must be completed in their entirety for each additional Sentry Key to be programmed. If any of the above steps are not completed in the given sequence, or within the allotted time, the SKIS will exit the "Customer Learn" programming mode and the programming will be unsuccessful. The SKIS will also automatically exit the "Customer Learn" programming mode if:

    It sees a non-blank Sentry Key when it should see a blank.
    If it has already programmed eight (8) valid Sentry Keys.
    If the ignition switch is turned to the OFF position for more than about fifty (50) seconds .

NOTE: If you attempt to start the vehicle while in "Customer Learn" mode (LED flashing), the vehicle will behave as though an invalid key is being used (i.e. the engine will stall after two (2) seconds of running). No faults will be logged.

NOTE: Once a Sentry Key has been programmed to a particular vehicle, it cannot be used on any other vehicle.




© 2012 ALLDATA LLC. All rights reserved.

DO THIS FIRST THEN TRY MY ABOVE SUGGESTION. thought about this afterwards.

One other problem could be a bad key coffin. If it tries hitting the skim with the code from the key in the coffin and then you try cranking it with a valid key the skim module see's both keys at the same time gets confused and denies allowing the vehicle to start.

There is one easy way to check this. Go to walmart grab a non theft deterent key for a 94-02 dodge it will have the black head have them cut it to the correct cut for your ignition.

Then go try to start the vehicle with the non theft deterrent key the vehicle should not start. If it does start and run successfully then the key coffin is staying energized or is transmitting everytime the ignition is cycled to on and is causing the problem.

Thanks,

It will be sometime this weekend before I can get to having a non-secure key made.

Becareful while doing all of this key cycling it can be possible to accidentally enter that customer key programming mode without realizing it. Count to 10 between each key cycle whether it be with the viper or manual key method. Follow these rules obviously when NOT trying to enter programming mode. Can't tell ya how many times I have freaked myself out moving too fast and wondering why the engine would not stay running.

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To master and control electricity is perfection. *evil laugh*

For a dodge vehicle of this vintage you have to have 2 programmed and functioning keys before it will let you into spare key programming mode.

But yes don't get over zealous swapping keys around. Allow a minute or 2 between experiments so you don't unknowingly get into key programming mode..

Thanks Guys,

All your words are heeded and appreciated.

I'm working 12 hr shifts thu Sunday. Monday I'll get a non-chipped key and get back.

Before you get a key cut just unplug the 3 pin connector. That will keep the key in a box from transmitting to the skin if it is stuck on or transmitting in some way. Try the keys to see if they will start the vehicle. Obviously check to be sure the connections to the skim module are seated.

If you unplug the skim the vehicle will not start period.

By using a non security key in the ignition try and start the vehicle that will determine if the coffin is defective if the vehicle starts and runs.

Hi Guys,

Went to Lowe's and as soon as they seen my chipped key when I said I wanted a non-chipped blank they said they could not and claimed they had no non-chipped blanks. The chipped one that had was $75.00.

Went to Wal-Mart and opened my big mouth and asked if they had any non-chipped blanks. I cannot copy a chipped key he says. I said sell me the blank. He did for $2.00.

I went to the dealership and they know of my difficulties and why I wanted it so they cut it for free and looked on in earnest as the non-chipped key failed to keep the motor running. It cranked and died.

I removed the non-chipped key. Inserted the chipped key and it cranked! I go to the grocery store and it fires up when I left. An hour after I got home I tried it and it would not. I tried the non-chipped key and it starts and dies. I put the chipped key in and it starts!

Ugh!

I guess I'll try another bypass box?

Go to somewhere else tell them to copy the stinking key. The actual key shank part is the same for sec key or non sec key. If they ask tell them you want a non sec key to hide under the vehicle just in case you lose your keys and that way some brick can't start your vehicle should they find it. The biggest thing is to not say a word and if they do tell them what you want.

Or you can just scrap that junk key coffin and use a newer style data based sec bypass kit. I like the db-all but they all pretty much do the same thing.

Well as I aid the dealer cut me a blank.

The thing is now that I have a non-chipped key I can now make the issue repeat.

1.) The chipped key will not start it, not even run and die, just turning over the starter.
2.) I insert the non-chipped key and it will start and run a second or two and die.
3.) I then insert the chipped key and it will run.
4.) It will start the vehicle maybe 2 or 3 times and then its the same thing again.

I ordered another 556U and will swap it out when it arrives.

Ugh!

How much time are you leaving between swapping keys.

I'd go the newer route and use a data based bypass kit instead of the old style spare key coffin route.

01ws6/tamu wrote:

---

How much time are you leaving between swapping keys.

---

Not allot. I try the dumb key and it starts and dies. I pull it out and inset the smart key and it cranks. I drove to the grocery store and came out and the smart key started it. A few hours later the smart key failed to even start it so it could die. I can make this repeat.

[QUOTE]I'd go the newer route and use a data based bypass kit instead of the old style spare key coffin route.[/QUOTE]

Can you give me a make and part No. For that? And perhaps the wiring details for a dodge Grand Caravan Sport with key sentry? Toa Viper 5704?

Thanks, I'm game for anything.

i never liked those key in the box type thinks.I use a programmable databus bypass.Something to think about. Plus i don't like directed products.I used a xpresskit bypass that gave me all types of problems.i ditched it and went Omega blade-al

It sounds like the vehicle is possibly reading both keys at times. Unplug the bypass box (coffin) and completely remove it from the car. Then try starting it with the proper key and see if you have any issues.

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Kenny
Owner / Technician
KKD Garage LLC
Albany, NY 12205

Thanks, I will. Its getting late here, I'll do it in the PM tomorrow.
I tried a new box. No-Go.

Thanks.

Next time it won't start with the key in the ignition imediately unplug the black & BLACK/ red BLACK/ white wire 3 pin antenna loop from the key coffin and try to restart. If it starts the the stock sensivity of the coffin is to high and needs to be set to the lower winding setting also try to keep the box as far from the iginition as possible. Any time 2 sentry keys are picked up at the same time if they are both programmed to the SKIM This can occur. The other thing to verify is that the Factory Transponder Ring is working properly which is part of the ignition switch its self. If it isn't then neither the coffin or ignition will start and stay running. Because the coffin is only brodcasting the key in the box up too the Factory Ring. Hope this helps!

I don't know whats up.
I disconnected the antenna wires and nothing different.

I pulled the fuse and the OE key started her up. The Viper remote start when activated failed to continue to run as expected.

I then put it all together after swapping the jumper in the box for the lower winding signal and it fired up via Viper remote and the OE key.

Wow I thought. Great!

An hour later the OE key and a non-chipped key failed to start it but the Viper Remote works.

Sigh!

Keep the bypass out of the car and try continually starting it with the OE key to make sure it is not something with the vehicle. Once you are confident that is solved, then try starting it with the key that is in the bypass.

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Kenny
Owner / Technician
KKD Garage LLC
Albany, NY 12205

It sounds to me like it is reading 2 keys. What bypass module is it? Does it have a key sense input? Also, how exactly did you connect the bypass box? What wires went where?

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Kenny
Owner / Technician
KKD Garage LLC
Albany, NY 12205

I will try removing the bypass and let you know. Its a DEI 556U.

As far as the connections, I did not do it. The installer has left me out to dry. That is why I am here. I have many hundreds of dollars in it and cannot afford to go to another shop and pay for them to go after it.

I can do it if told what to look for. It is a Viper 5704, in a 2002 Dodge Grand Caravan. I drove it in with an Avatal remote start that worked fine. I drove it out with a Viper 5704 that has the symptoms as described. Oh - the pain! I took it back for a full day and they say its not on their end. Sheesh, I cut my loses and ran. I don't want them touching my ride. Danger Will Robinson!

Thanks

OK,

I removed the bypass from the car.
I tried the key = no-dice, nor run at all.
I remote start the car with the key in the ign = OK.
I remote start the car with the key NOT in the ign = no-dice, it will run a sec and die.

Now.... after a successful remote start with the key in the ign, the key will work if tried recently. If I try the key alone later no-dice.

I guess I need to have the thing removed and started from scratch?

Ugh.

Yes, you have something connected wrong somewhere. Hopefully it hasn't already cause irreversible damage. Take everything completely out, reconnect all factory wiring (data wire, etc) and see how it works.

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Kenny
Owner / Technician
KKD Garage LLC
Albany, NY 12205

IF you are able to turn on the vehicle with the key in the ignition you may want to check the ignition wire of the vehicle. It may be the ignition may not have power when the key is turned to the on position thus the skim module is not on to detect the key.

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Eric
Audiomaxx
528 East Fordham Road
Bronx NY 10458
Compustar Top Gun Dealer Award 2012-2013

Where did you ground the actual unit to?

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Kenny
Owner / Technician
KKD Garage LLC
Albany, NY 12205

Thanks Guys,

As previously said, a shop did it and when I complained they shrugged their shoulders and sent me hiking. So I will have to dig into it my self.

Thanks.

I'd be going back and telling them to take it out and getting as much of your money back as possible... but then again it might be too late for that since you messed with it yourself. Did they use t-taps or did they splice wires? If its t-taps then you will want to pull it all out anyways.

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Kenny
Owner / Technician
KKD Garage LLC
Albany, NY 12205

Thanks but its a night mare. I took it back and they kept it for a full day and said it was not on their end. I drove it in with an Avital Remote start working perfect. I drove out with a Viper 5704 with the starting issues listed here.

So basically a shop with dignity issues. I cut my losses.

I wish some of you guys lived near me in N GA.

Well if you are going to be around Upstate NY anytime soon just let me know... lol.

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Kenny
Owner / Technician
KKD Garage LLC
Albany, NY 12205

Sounds like the BCM is not disarming with the door locks, are you using the factory remote to unlock the doors or the viper, if viper have the shop who installed it verify programing to pulse the factory disarm wire! Have them check this setting in the Viper!
(7. OEM Alarm Disarm Output (H2/4 wire)
1. With Unlock: the OEM Alarm Disarm wire will pulse as programmed at the same time as the unlock
(Blue) wire
2. Before Unlock: the OEM Alarm Disarm wire will pulse as programmed before the unlock wire
3. Remote start only: the OEM Alarm Disarm wire will pulse as programmed during remote start only!)
If it is set to option 3 this will cause what you have!
BCM Holds the Transponder Key info and Factory Security!

If you hav a Factory Remote that works bring it with you and try the unlock with that, then try to start it next time it does it. If it will start with the key after unlocking with the factory remote. Then it's set to option 3 for Factory Disarm Pulse. The BCM will engage the Factory Security with any lock type, even though you are using the Viper remote.

I Wish - Thanks, I tried it as soon as I read your post.

So as is right now, the bypass is out, and the fuse pulled, and the vehicle will only start with the Viper remote and key near the Skim.

Thanks.

Trace the harness coming off the skim module and make sure that all wires are properly connected and that none are pinched or otherwise not making contact with each other. Then take your DMM and test all of your wires coming off the ignition switch. You may not be getting power to all of the ignition wires with the key.

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Kenny
Owner / Technician
KKD Garage LLC
Albany, NY 12205

Then you need to verify that the key switch is sending power to the wires it should be. Sounds like the remote start is sending power to all the wires that need to powered and the key switch isn't. When you check the ign. wires how did they hook into them?

I did a little checking and if you can hold a key next to the Ing./SKIM and start the van with the remote start but no key in coffin, but not the key in the Ing./SKIM then it leads me to belive that the power is not getting to the SKIM to power it up to read the key. When remote started, power is back feeding to the skim and it works. (If you get crank but no run and die = no power to Ing. wire, crank run 2 seconds = no power to SKIM to read key. One of the wires going to the Ing. should have 12+ volts all the time, check the heavy guage wires giong to the switch it's self to verify 12+ volts constant (Blur/RED) coming in and 12+ volt going out too the Ing. wire (Pink/White) The switch routes power depending on key position. If not then need to track it back to the source (ie fuse, BCM)! if you do have 12+ volts on the main feed wire and still no start then the SKIM is not getting power from the Ign. switch. The ignition switch should feed power to the SKIM. If the SKIM was getting power and faulting you would get a security (VTSS LED) on the dash. Just because The Ing./SKIM was good when they put it in doesn't mean it's still good now. The cheapest thing to do is check and rerplace the Ing. electrical switch which is located on the left side of the colum. If I read correctly you gota used colum to fix the damaged one, try replacing the Ing. switch from the other and see if the problem goes away. It's plug and play also if you can try swaping the small wirng off the old colum that goes to the SKIM if you can. If the SKIM was just faulty thr remote start wouldn't work either.

Thanks, Will do all of the above tomorrow.

If they used t-taps, check to see if the t-taps cut through the any of the ignition wires.

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Kenny
Owner / Technician
KKD Garage LLC
Albany, NY 12205

I'm going to print all this out today and go over it at the Van. I'll need to keep my mind busy after the Job interview I have this AM.

If any of you have the pin-outs for a 2002 grand caravan sport it would be great in helping me confirm them.

I want this fixed obviously and if its not the shops fault or is I want to let them know one way or the other.

I have not expressed any I'll will at them. I did tell them I was disappointed that it came in functioning properly and left not functioning properly.

Helping them can only help any future consumers.

Readyremote didn't show anything for that year Grand Caravan, but here is the info for a caravan... it should be the same. Where did they pull the main power from? The ignition fuse is only rated at 10amps and there is a good chance that it is blown. I would try checking it (should be in the underhood fuse box)

12volts   lt blue/red (10A)   +   ignition harness
Starter      yellow      +      ignition harness      
Second Starter      PURPLE / brown      -      ignition harness     
Ignition      pink/white      +      ignition harness      
Second Ignition      N/A    
Third Ignition      N/A    
Accessory      not required for remote start    
Second Accessory      N/A

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Kenny
Owner / Technician
KKD Garage LLC
Albany, NY 12205

Well, I am pretty much distraught.

Basically the van will only start if the Viper remote is used when a key is in the ignition.

I looked at the brain and what a mess. So bad I dare not pull it out to fully look at it in fear of never starting again. No solder like promised. All wire nuts and the squeeze clamps.
I see a 12v relay labeled Install bay.

I got my hands on another clock spring to test in-place of mine. They are both OK in both vehicles.


@ Clock spring:

Blue/red (10A) = Always 12v.
Yellow = 12v when cranked.
PURPLE / Brn = 5.0v always.
Pink/Wht = 12v With key on and while cranking.

@ Skim:

Gray/red= Always 12v.
Blk/Wht = nothing, Ground?
Pink/Wht = 12v Key on and cranking.
WHITE/ Red 1.0v

Heh! I drove to a store today and came out withing 2 minutes and tried the key by habit and it cranked.

Lose wire or something driving me nuts.

OR, he tapped into an ign wire that times out? Kind of like the lights or radio and windows stay hot after the key is off.

Geeze

Where is the 12v intput (red) for the viper coming from? If it is NOT coming off the blue/red at the factory harness, is there any indication that it once was? It's possible that they blew the fuse, or the fuse is bad for the ignition. Try checking it (with a DMM, not just visually) and see. Also, next time it is not starting (with the key), hold the key in the start position while wiggling ONE WIRE at a time at the ignition switch. If it all of a sudden cranks, you know your loose wire. If the install is that bad, I would personally rip everything completely out and start from square one... but I would make sure you had a daily vehicle in case you need to do further repair to the factory ignition.

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Kenny
Owner / Technician
KKD Garage LLC
Albany, NY 12205

Did you verify your getting voltage from the ignition switch to the skim when it won't start. Still think it is higly likely that the ignition switch is the problem, since you had to fix the column from a attempted theft. And it remote starts due to the back feed back powering the skim. I could be wrong but it seems most likely as the cause.

I'm also wondering if they originally had it connected to the 12volt 10amp wire at the switch and when you brought it back for problems they quickly changed it over to take fault off of them for whatever damaged was caused.

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Kenny
Owner / Technician
KKD Garage LLC
Albany, NY 12205

if you are seeing actual wire nuts then that is definitely a problem because wire nuts should only be used on solid core wire, not stranded wire. at first when i started reading this post my first thought was the car was reading both keys, but now that ive read the whole post i can pretty much say that you have a broken or loose wire at the ignition harness somewhere between the main connector and where the remote starter is connected. a pin may have been pulled loose from the connector by a rough installer or possibly excessive heat melting the plastic around a pin.

a simple but not definitive test would be to watch the lights on your instrument cluster while trying to start with the key and trying with the viper. if there is any difference at all in the number or timing of the cluster lights then that tells you that either something is not getting power or its not being turned on at the right time.

dodge vehicles around that time tend to have a lot of wires with the same color but power different devices so its also possible that something was crossed up during the install because i know some installers like to cut wires and use butt connectors instead of solder. so possibly some wires were cut and switched around on accident. you might be able to tell if this happened by looking closely at the wires and making sure that the wires are the same size before and after each connection. if there is a noticeable difference in size then there is something wrong, and this type of problem can lead to wires heating up and melting the connectors closest to the bad connection.

if i were you i wouldnt go back to that shop because they obviously dont have much experience to begin with or they are more concerned with speed than a proper install.

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Did you verify your getting voltage from the ignition switch to the skim when it won't start. Still think it is highly likely that the ignition switch is the problem, since you had to fix the column from a attempted theft. And it remote starts due to the back feed back powering the skim. I could be wrong but it seems most likely as the cause.

Yes I did and it is, Thanks

=================

Where is the 12v intput (red) for the viper coming from? If it is NOT coming off the blue/red at the factory harness, is there any indication that it once was? It's possible that they blew the fuse, or the fuse is bad for the ignition. Try checking it (with a DMM, not just visually) and see. Also, next time it is not starting (with the key), hold the key in the start position while wiggling ONE WIRE at a time at the ignition switch. If it all of a sudden cranks, you know your loose wire. If the install is that bad, I would personally rip everything completely out and start from square one... but I would make sure you had a daily vehicle in case you need to do further repair to the factory ignition.

I checked all my Fuses and they are good. All the wire colors are as shown to me here. Its a real mess under there. depressing.

=====================================

I'm also wondering if they originally had it connected to the 12volt 10amp wire at the switch and when you brought it back for problems they quickly changed it over to take fault off of them for whatever damaged was caused.

I swapped the clock springs out with another vehicle with no change to both. Both have key sentry.

=====================================

Thanks, Before I just find a good shop and do a complete re-install I want to report an new condition.

After putting a new coffin with a key inside the car will not remote start with the key in the ignition now. I can hold the remote in my lap and start it.

In the AM I will swap the jumper in case the signal is too strong and its seeing two keys.

This thing is about to break my will.


You guys are great for hanging in here with me.



=======================================

FYI for all trying to solve this: From same user 2therock https://dodgeforum.com/forum/dodge-caravan/335906-2002-gc-ignition-key-sentry-replacment-question.html

• 2002 GC Ignition Key Sentry Replacment Question -Had my van broken into and a theft attempt made.
  They ruined my key sentry SKREEM module, key tumbler and the cast housing that holds it.
  
  I have a used column with the components I need and will pull them off for my Van.
  
  Question, How is the van's security system going to see this?
  But will the Skeem module toss a curve into the works. The column coming is in tact with a key. Hopefully I will be able to program it to work.
  
  Just looking ahead of what I am getting iinto.
  
  FYI, A SKEEM and Key housing are very expensive new. I'm getting the column for $75.00. My interior is blue, the one coming is grey, it was difficult to find one for my config, No radio controls, no traction controls, to name two and more. If push came to shove I can put my wheel and plastics on it but.............. going to try the small parts first.

Not sure I get your point. Yes that's me.

I got the column and used the Key tumbler and its cast housing, that's all.
I put the tumblers out of my key switch into the key switch that came with the column. The thief drove a screw driver into my OE and broke the cast housing that costs nearly $400.00.

I purchased a new Skim because you cannot use one from another VIN. The dealership programmed it. I had it towed up there.

The van then remote "and" with the key started with the existing Avatal remote start that was originally in my van fine.

I drove it to the install shop to upgrade to a Viper 5701.

It drove in remote and key starting. It drove out remote starting only.

I assure you if I find out it is somehow my or the thief's fault I will admit to it. But, like I said, it drove in the shop fine.

That dosen't mean that there wasn't some damage to the electric ignition switch. Which driving a screw driver into wouldn't have passed some of that force through to the other side. Which leads me to believe the the swicth is questionable. With the problems you are having as it is working intermintently. So I suggest you start at the source and verify proper function of the switch. IE try to start it with the key if no start. Leave it in the on position and check for voltage to the skim module. If no power try the remote start while watching for power to show up at the skim if it does then back feed is powering it, and not the switch. IE replace the switch!

I understand where you are coming from.

The term ignition switch and clock spring are the same thing here. Dodge calls it a clock spring. That has been ruled out.

And the test you speak of I have done as posted earlier.

Thanks.

I'm not so closed minded I am ruling ANYTHING out though. Its looking like a complete removal and reinstall is in my cards though. My wallet bleeds. Oh the pain!

Yes, I would pull everything out and get the vehicle starting with the key normally before putting anything back in. It also sounds like the switch to me. Also, did you check every fuse (inside the cabin and under the hood)? And how did you check the fuses?

Also, look through the dash for any loose or unconnected wires (including ground wires). And check the battery terminals for any corrosion or loose connections.

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Kenny
Owner / Technician
KKD Garage LLC
Albany, NY 12205

I use a Fluke 27 multi meter and I pull the fuses and check for resistance and continuity. No blown fuses.

OK, I guess I have ran out of patience on this thing.

To get an idea, if I came to your shop and told you the full story and asked what would the worst case price scenario be for checking it out and possibly yanking, testing, and re-doing it be?

What am I looking at ball park?

Don't shut down on me guys. She is in the shop. The installer said he would show mercy and call me with a price after a preliminary examination. She is spending the night there.

He did not ask me who did it and I did not offer. I really believe they made a mistake but if not and its on me I will post it back here. Either way I feel a couple c-notes getting loose in my wallet. Argh!

get rid of the key in the box you have two keys get a a different module.

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When in doubt....kick it!

Its better security wise anyway It wont disable your factory security

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When in doubt....kick it!

Thanks Guys for all of you're input.

I picked it up from the shop I had go behind the original installer today and its working perfectly now. I asked the tech who did the job for a description and he said after some preliminary looking he knew he had to pull it all out and bench test it all before doing a reinstall.

If I had let them know I wanted a full explanation they would have written it all down. He said as he traced it all out it was one thing after another but he remembered specifically the 2nd starter wire was terminated wrong. And they did not use the brains 2nd starter output for the relay. And a circuit that contained a resistor was terminated incorrectly.

He also said where he would have went directly to the battery they went through an under powered or smaller than desired circuit.

He also noted the install was less than neat as it could have been.

I noticed an addition of a heavy-ish loomed wire with a large fuse and holder at my battery now.

All systems are go. I'm going to recover wallet wise and get my audio system upgraded there soon.

Thanks Again

The shop in question was a DEI "Preferred" vendor in their "Where To Buy" list in Marietta GA.

cool beans. i guess i dont understand why one would pull out an alarm and bench test it when you could just test it in the car with a meter but i guess to each his own...

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Thanks,

He bench tested the components for defects and/or damage and such. He was hoping for a easy fix and did all he could do before hand and made the correct call as far as I'm concerned. I have some peace of mind now.

There was such a mess under there he wanted to just get it all out of there to make sure nothing else was wrong under there other than the system install.

Then before going through all the trouble of the reinstall he wanted to bench test it all. I think it was a be safer than sorry move.

In looking under the dash the before and after is amazing. Now its obvious someone took the time to do a clean as possible job.

I am glad he yanked it all out. It takes all the doubt of how things were terminated out of the issue and no wondering about what else is lingering under there. The 2nd installer now knows its his work all the way.

You guys were great!    

It still doesn't make sense why it wasn't starting with the key... unless the data wire was never reconnected after you pulled out the bypass...

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Kenny
Owner / Technician
KKD Garage LLC
Albany, NY 12205

I spoke more with him today and just for you asked him why it would not key start. He said it was wired so it was seeing both resistors in the system at once. Something about the relay not being terminated or fed from the brain instead of a starter or ignition wire. And basically the issue was in what he called the 2nd starter circuit. He said that was not all that was wrong in the install but one of the bigger issues.

They did a nice audio install for me today.

• Amp 1, Alpine MRP-F300.
• One Set of Memphis 15-PR52V2 5.25 inch replacing the dash speakers.
• Two sets of Memphis 15-PR693V2 6 x 9’s replacing the rear panel speakers.
• Amp 2, PowerBass ASA 200.2x 2 ch.
• Sub, 10 inch, Memphis 15-PR10S4V2.
• Enclosure, Memphis 15-PE1X10.