problem with remote starter cranking

I just installed a Code Alarm 5051 remote starter/keyless entry into a '99 Sunfire. I'm having a problem with the remote start and am a bit baffled. I hope you guys can help me out.

Here's what it does. It initially attempts to crank, which works, but it stops cranking momentarily just before the engine actually starts. I thought this was something about the tachless smart cranking so I set it to a fixed 2-second crank. Now it cranks for a fraction of a second - just enough to almost get the engine going - but then it stops momentarily before attempting to crank again, at which point it's too late.

I realize it's hard to describe. It's kind of weird. Does anyone have any idea what might be going on here?

Here's a link to the system: https://www.audiovoxproducts.com/code-alarm/remotestart/?sku=CA5051

Try leaving your key in the ignition then tell us what happens.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

You need a bypass. Howie I dont think putting the key in the ignition will help. The chip is in the ignition tumbler on those, not on the key, from what I remember. you are way more knowledgable than I am so definitely not saying you are wrong and it wont work. I just dont think it will.

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JS, you're quite right but I was just confirming what you said, if it started with the key in then it was going to be a case of "you need a by-pass"..
Much easier in Europe EVERY vehicle sold in the European market had to have a factory transponder from 1/1/97.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Thanks for the replies. Sorry I haven't posted again sooner - the car is my girlfriend's and right now I only see her on the weekends.

I believe I have a bypass module. I ordered the system from Auto Alarm Pro, and it included the Code Alarm box, a FlashLogic module that hooks into the Passlock wires, and a door lock module.

I tried using the remote start with the key in the ignition and in all three positions: not turned at all, to the "ACC" position, and the "ON" position. It did the same thing in the first two positions as it did with no key: start but immediately die. In the "ON" position, it did not attempt to start at all.

Here's a link to how the module is installed:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/12873062/IMG_20121202_131925.jpg

Here's a video of the car trying to start:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atuNAHUW-cU

Oh, and there is definitely no chip on the key for this car.

Fine, diagnostics done , basics, tach wire connected and programmed?
DMM to test voltage at ground and fuses, R/S side of fuses.
List of unit wires and what's connected to what on the car please.


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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Older GM vehicles do not have a chip in the key, as i said earlier. They are in the ignition tumbler. You should tell us which wires you have connected in the vehicle. It sounds like your bypass is wired wrong or not working. If you start the car with the key and then remote start the vehicle (pit stop mode) and take the key out , what does the vehicle do?

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I don't have a tach wire hooked up.

If I have the key in the "ON" position the remote starter does not do anything.

I have the bypass wired exactly as in the wiring diagram. I will go down and take a picture of the Passlock wires.

I don't have a DMM here, but I do have a test light. I will have access to a DMM next weekend. I tested all the connections I made using the test light, except for the Passlock yellow wire connection. I have no information on what it should read and when.

Here's a list of connections made to the Code Alarm box:
Solid black from system to self-tapping screw into body
Solid pink from system (ignition 1) to solid pink on ignition harness
Pink w/white from system (ignition 2) to solid white on ignition harness
Solid orange from system (accessory) to solid orange on ignition harness
Solid purple from system (start/crank) to solid yellow on ignition harness
Red and white w/red (constant +12v) to solid red on ignition harness
BLACK/ white on flashlogic (starter) to yellow on ignition harness
Green on flashlogic (bulbtest/2nd starter) to black on ignition harness
Pink on flashlogic (ignition) to pink on harness
Yellow on flashlogic to yellow on the 3-pin harness under key cylinder

The other connections are all lights, horn, and door locks, all of which function as expected.

Could this even be a Passlock problem? I thought that if the Passlock was preventing starting, it would not crank at all.

Do you have your ground while running wire from the r/s to the bypass. That is what activates the bypass during remote starting. Again if you start the vehicle with key, and while running activate the remote start and then take key out of ignition without hitting the brake, does the vehicle stay running.

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If I do that the car continues to run after the key is removed. The only ground wire hooked up to the bypass would be the one included on the DBI connector to the remote starter.

ON your remote starter there is a ground while running (GWR) or status output wire, on your bypass there is a GWR input this needs  to be connected for the bypass to work.

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For more info:

There's a 4-pin wire running between the Flashlogic module and the remote starter. Red, black, white, blue pins on the Flashlogic side and GREEN/ black (factory disarm before start), blue (pulse after start), GREEN / WHITE (arm after shutdown), and BLACK / YELLOW (pulse during crank) on the remote starter side.

Is your bypass programmed for D2D mode, and your door lock module , is that connected also in D2D . The blue wire on the DBI connector is your GWR input wire, you might cut that wire and use the GWR output  on your RS to your that wire.

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The only ground I see on the remote starter is pin #1, black, on the light harness connector. Simply says "Ground."

It mght says status ouptut wire also, i am to lazy to look up the manual for your remote start. but all remote starters will have a GWR output or status output wire, usually a blue wire or sometime a BROWN / black wire. It is an output not an input. and just to test also, you can take that blue wire in the DBI connector directly to ground and see if the vehicle will start then. It is definitley something with your bypass since the vehicle will stay running with the key out.

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Okay it is a BLACK / YELLOW wire- pulse during crank. This is the wire you need

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Is the "bulbtest" wire the "ground while running" wire that you guys are talking about? How can I use a DMM or test light to verify that I have the wire I need? I remember I think that I hooked the gree "bulbtest" wire on the Flashlogic to the black wire coming out of the main ignition harness. Does that sound right?

There's a status LED on the Flashlogic module. When I attempt to remote start, it does not flash at all. The Flashlogic module indicates that this is "invalid ground when running status from remote starter." So this is most likely the problem.

Thanks for the tips so far guys. I don't have the torx driver I need to get to the ignition harness to check the connections there. I will open it up and check it out in a few days when the car is back at my place.

Bulb, one side to a constant 12 volt constant source, other to suspect wire, engage R/S that bulb should light up.
With a DMM, set to 20VDC, red probe to 12v+ constant as above, black probe to suspect wire, again engage R/S, you should get 12.4-12.7V reading.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Thanks for the suggestions, everyone. You got me looking in the right place. Turned out that the T-tap connections for the ignition to the Flashlogic wasn't plugged in correctly. The tab was shoved under the tap and not inside. No wonder it couldn't get a valid ground - there was no valid ignition signal!

I would have never considered that it was the Passlock bypass though.

Thanks! It works great now.

Well that's your problem. T-taps are the cheaters way out of a proper installation. Unless you know 100% how to do them correctly, they WILL cause further issues down the road. Up to and possibly including burning your car to the ground. I've seen plenty of burnt ignition wiring from improper T-tap use. Twist, solder, and tape is the correct way.

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Kenny
Owner / Technician
KKD Garage LLC
Albany, NY 12205

It's actually FORBIDDEN to use T-Taps in the UK.
If you work for a company, instant dismissal, back in the day Clifford (who at least tried to keep up dealer standards) canned any company found using them.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

I am 100% against T-taps and when I go full bore into my own shop, if I ever see a T-tap used it will be an immediate dismissal... lol. However, I know a few people who have been using t-taps their entire installation career and have never had an issue... but its like a science to get them just right.


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Kenny
Owner / Technician
KKD Garage LLC
Albany, NY 12205

Not science Kenny, LUCK!
Vibration, water ingress-corrosion and matching the cable size.
Get up there into that 01-05 Civic fusebox and try getting pliers around that T-tap!

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Ive had to replace wire harness's cause other installers used TTaps. Those things are NOT SAFE! I would take them all out and start over!

had a escalade that i did some alarm troubleshooting on to find out why the parking lights wouldnt work. turns out it was a loose t-tap and as soon as i touched it it started to work again. a minor issue this time but this could have just as easily been a data or CAN wire having the same issues. the tap was apparently installed for a while with no issues but with t-taps its usually just a matter of time before the loosen up.

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