double checking relays

Hello,

I just acquired a viper 5704 and I want to double check everything with the pros here on this site before I go tearing into my wiring harness.

I have a 93 Silverado two door. It has the 5 wire alternating door locks, and everything else is factory. Assuming I got this right, I need a relay setup like the one here https://www.the12volt.com/doorlocks/page3.asp#5w to actually actuate the lock/unlock outputs on this door trigger system. Then there is the relay for the running/parking lights. I have gotten different results when searching the forum here since some people needed a relay and others didn't even mention it. I would think I need one to actuate the power to them before it hits the switch in the dash, but the viper manual makes no mention of the output power of its parking light output wire. There is also been mention of a relay that must be installed to actuate the dome lights, so at this point im assuming the viper doesn't actually power anything directly but rather just has the output capacity to trigger a relay when needed. I have referred to the wiring diagram in this site and so far the only relay mentioned is the door locks.

All that said im really excited to get this thing installed and done right. I just need to make sure I have all the wiring planned out and understood before hand as opposed to half way through the install.

Your research is very good on that older model truck. 

The Viper's Parking Light output, when the jumper / fuse is set to (+), is rated at 10 Amps.  That will be
sufficient for the trucks parking light circuit.

Get a DEI 451M door lock module for the power door locks.  Cost is under $10 and makes things easier
and neater.

Not sure on the Dome Light supervision but a relay is only $2.50 so it's cheap insurance.  You could
test the circuit for current draw with a Digital Multi Meter to see if it does require more that the 200mA
supplied by the Viper.

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Soldering is fun!

Ok so I should be good to tap in after the parking light on switch at the dash? Wont that feed back into the viper though when I kick on the parking lights manually?

I can and will gladly buy the DEI module, but I want to be sure I can't just do it myself first. I really enjoy the DIY aspect of the project :) Would this https://www.the12volt.com/doorlocks/page3.asp#5w have worked the same as the DEI module?

Ill test the dome circuit when I start putting it in. I bought 10 relays from amazon for this project so im ready to install the second I am 100% sure I have everything planned correctly.

One last question. I bought a battery backup for the alarm system and it looks like a miniature version of the batteries I install into the UPS'S at different client sites (network admin here). Can I safely wire up a 12V 9AH battery in place of this puney little battery here?

The Viper's Parking Light output is a relay, so it isolates itself from the vehicles circuit when not
in use.

Yes, you surely can do the locks yourself with 30/40 Amp SPDT relays and a fuse.  It is more
fun, less expensive, more educational and you get to solder!      The link you posted will work
but you might want to add some coil quenching diodes to protect the Viper ( more learning /
soldering and diodes are cheap ).  Try to get some 1N4007 diodes off EBay or Amazon, too. 
RadioShack has them too but is a bit more expensive.

As for the back-up battery, the voltage is right but if the Viper has some sort of built in charging circuit,
it might present a problem.  Perhaps another Forum Member can jump in with some in-sight on this
aspect.  ( I use those same batteries during R/S bench prep to test and program the units.)   

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Soldering is fun!

Ok thanks man :) Ill grab one of those batteries while im at work tomorrow and at least test the alarms/unit before I go through the trouble of installing it in the truck. Boy wouldn't that stink to install it and then have to rip it all out.

Ill go ahead and get some diodes to protect the viper.

BTW Ive been tinkering with all this stuff for a long while. I just never applied it to a car before, so this is new and fun while im sure for some its tedious and only being done to save money.

Also (not to ramble on but I would hate to create another thread) I wanted to use this https://www.the12volt.com/relays/page5.asp (the radio on until door opens). If I do the first one without the diodes I just have to feed the accessory wire out to only the radio opposed to having that hooked up to all the accessories?

Thankyou for all the help :)

Bugger it Kregg, I was hoping you would slip up and forget the diodes!
On a serious note to our OP, quenching diodes AND in line even the lock outputs or you WILL fry the R/S.
Ref. back-up battery, ignition controlled input for charging and output to join H1/1 red.
Diode 15 amp blocks though?
How do those batteries feed to the UPS circuits?

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Errata, forget the online diodes but PLEASE use the quenching diodes across the relay coils.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

this truck is relatively easy but for some reason i always have trouble with the locks, just my bad luck i guess. the worst example was one time when after i finished wiring up the 5 wire locks only to realize that now the switch worked in reverse, if you press lock the truck unlocks... and every other way i trier to wire it up it either didnt work or blew a fuse. looking back on it it might have been a defective 451M but thats the only thing i can think of that would cause such a dumb problem. and every time i tell the story people look at me like im dumb too

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Don't worry, I wish I had $10 for every time I've done 5 wire relays, either in the dark, in a far corner or up side down and blown a fuse!
My first door actuator install, about 30 years ago, I ran ONE length of cable U shaped out to the passenger having done and wired up the drivers door before installing the passenger actuator, don't want to mention how many fuses I blew before kicking myself and snipping the ends.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

soundnsecurity wrote:

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this truck is relatively easy but for some reason i always have trouble with the locks, just my bad luck i guess. the worst example was one time when after i finished wiring up the 5 wire locks only to realize that now the switch worked in reverse, if you press lock the truck unlocks... and every other way i trier to wire it up it either didnt work or blew a fuse. looking back on it it might have been a defective 451M but thats the only thing i can think of that would cause such a dumb problem. and every time i tell the story people look at me like im dumb too

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i should add that the locks worked normally with the alarm keypad, just the factory switch was inexplicably reversed.

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Reversed the motor wires?

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

nope, i went through every possible wiring combination making sure i didnt cross something up. i used a 451m so the relays shouldnt have been crossed. i tried switching them around but that only made the alarm and factory switch work backwards. if you switch the wires around from key side to motor side then it would blow the fuse, if i put it back to factory then the switch went back to normal. none of that made any sense to me or anyone i worked with at the time. but i somehow convinced the customer to take it with the switch being reversed.

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lol, So I just got off work and decided that I was going to work on this thing regardless of how dark and cold (lol Florida) it is out side. Also figured it was more positive than whats currently plaguing the news today :/ So I haven't ordered the diodes just yet and I suppose I should get a clarification on just which ones (quenching right?) I need and how many. I need one before and after the relays coming from the viper and going to the door locks? If that is the case and I can't start working on the locks tonight then maybe ill work on the oh so fun remote start. I bought some T-taps to temporarily use to connect everything to test if its all going to work where I put it, and then after its all confirmed wired right ill go ahead and do all the splicing and soldering like I've been doing the past few weekends.

Can I upload pictures here? I feel like you guys would get a kick out of what the truck currently looks like (completely gutted and wires going every which way).

I do have myself 10 fresh relays so I can wire up anything that doesn't need a diode.

Here is a link to a very detailed write up on relays  :  https://www.bcae1.com/relays.htm
In it there is a section on coil quenching diodes.  It shows the correct polarity placement
of the diode on the coil.  Remember that convention holds that relay Pin 85 is (-) and Pin 86
is (+).  Try to follow this even though the diagram from The12Volt of the 5 Wire locks shows
one relay wired incorrectly, with Pin 85 as (+) and Pin 86 as (-).  (This was probably done to
simplify the diagram and will work fine as long as you don't have relays with the diode built in.)

You can do the wiring now and add the diodes later.  You could leave the connections to the
R/S lock outputs off until you get the diodes installed. To test, you can just briefly apply ground
to Pin 85 of which ever relay ( lock or unlock ) you wanted to test.

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Soldering is fun!

Ok, Ill be sure to give that a good read over tonight once im done outside. I decided to just start on the door locks tomorrow after reading up on it some more so I can try and get a better understanding of it before hacking into the harness.

So I just went around and started marking and testing where all the connections are going to go into that I need to use on this truck. I used this wiring table here https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/alarmdetail/472.html which seemed to be right but I got a little more specific findings using my voltmeter and a fused jumper wire.

Dome light trigger (+) Brown wire located at the harness for the dimmer switch next to the park/run light switches.

Parking/Running light trigger (+) Brown wire located at the parking/running light switch harness.

Headlights (+) yellow wire located at the park/run light switch harness.

brake activate trigger (+) White wire located at brake switch.

Door triggers at the switches at each door are (+) trigger at the white wire.

So with all that, I have:

Neutral safety input - hook to vehicle ground (auto trans)

(-) 200ma dome light supervision output - Not sure since the dome lights are positive trigger.

horn Honk output (-) - black (-) trigger at ignition harness

(+) door trigger input - white wire (+) at either trigger switch.

Hood pin input (-) - I guess hooks up to the included trigger that I will install later.

tach input - I know there is the wire located at the coil but surely there must be a wire under the dash here that I can use?

Brake shutdown input (+) - White wire at brake switch (+)

Thats what I got for the 24 wire harness. Is there any that is missing? I am not too sure about the 200ma starter output, (-) remote start/turbo timer activation input, (-) 200ma status output (is this the "im armed" blinking dash led?), (-) 200ma ignition 1 output, and the ignition/flex relay control output.

I will probably wait till tomorrow to start hooking all of this up, that way I can hopefully get some input on what ive tested so far and maybe I can get those diodes at the local radio shack.

I've never seen one of those vehicles but door triggers WON'T be positive.
Tach should be a white at rear of inst cluster.
If you exit the vehicle and don't lock the doors does the dome light stay on for up to 1 minute?
If so you won't need dome supervision.
Throw away your DMM and get a Snap-On or similar bulb tester, it's much quicker and you aren't using your meter correctly.
On from that comment t-taps?
Why are you wasting money on bad joints with that rubbish where any pro will bare and simply wrap around, then solder and insulate.
In fact most pros on a strange vehicle will work the following procedure:-
Pre-wire what you know.
Position alarm-R/S ECU.
Find wanted wires.
Test and verify.
Solder and insulate.
You are over thinking and it will screw up the result.
Mind you I'll be the first to admit that it takes the fun away.
And yes I've been sunburned by the lousy December weather in Florida.


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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

I had every intention on soldering all the connections once I had tested them with the T-taps.
I tested the door trigger again using the volt meter and the white wire is 12v constant while the black wire sits at rest until the circuit is completed at one of the doors and then completes the circuit. There are only two wires running to each door trigger (WHITE/ black) and the white shows 12v when I put the red probe on it and the black on a bare part of the cab for ground. If im testing it wrong how so? I don't want to teach myself an incorrect method then have to go back and re-teach myself.
There is no dome supervision built into this truck. It is pretty basic and the lights go off the second the door is closed.
I don't mean to over think all of this, I just like to make sure I covered everything that way I can't say I didn't do my research or ask someone more experienced.

All vehicles back then apart from Rolls-Royce, some 5 and 7 Series BMW trunk triggers were ALL NEG. (-).
Meter to 20VDC.
Red probe to a verified 12V+ constant.
Black probe to suspect wire.
Reading 0v.
Open door should get a reading of c.12v+.
NEG (-) join to green at H2/6.
If POS (+) 12v+ on door closed, 0v on opening.
POS (+) join to violet at H2/12.
Don't waste your money on t-taps, half the time they won't work.

Dome Supervision if required.
If NEG (-), BLACK / YELLOW at H2/7 to relay 85.
Constant 12v+ to 86, fused 2 amps.
Good ground to 87.
30 to green at H2/6.

If POS (+), BLACK / YELLOW at H2/7 to relay 85.
Constant 12v+ fused 5 amps to 86 and 87.
30 to violet at H2/12.
In either case 1N4004 across relay coil, band to 86. Mandatory.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Ok guys thank you so much for your time and help. I went slow, hooked up everything according to the advice that you gave me and everything worked first time. Door locks are working perfectly. Remote start works like a charm (once I got the manual trans mode set to auto). I got the dome lights hooked up to the viper which is really nice. The only two relays that I think I have left is the one for the horn (I want it to honk with the siren) and possibly one for headlights. Now I didn't see this option on one of the vipers many wires but im sure its got to be doable somehow. Basically, I was looking into having it so when the lock/unlock is triggered on the viper that it keeps the headlights on for 30 or so seconds. I have an HHR that does this and it really makes it easier to get to the vehicle at night. Can anyone steer me in the right direction with this?

Also, I blew the 10 amp fuse in the viper for the parking lights. I put a 15 in there and haven't had any issues yet. I was wondering if I needed a diode in line of the power wire that is spliced into the parking light harness. I didn't know if the power was backfeeding once I flipped on the parking light switch itself.