Printer Friendly Forum Posts - avital 4103 2006 camry

Hello everyone! My name is Caleb, I am new here (also to the remote start install world) and I have a question about my install of avital 4103 in a 2006 Camry.

So I put this unit into my 1999 accord no problems. I has a bypass that hardwired to my car and it programed itself and all is good there......Now on to the Camry. I have been stuck all weekend trying to wire a relay to my second starter. I have read all through these forums and tried the different connection combinations. Finally the combo I got to kinda work was: 12v to 86 and 87, 85 to orange wire on avital 4 pin (-) accessory output and 30 to the second BLK/YLLW wire at ignition switch. ALSO I have to ground the purple (-) starter output to get the engine to turn over. Now the car starts but dies quickly. I have the universal bypass with the key in the box and wired around the ignition. The car will stay running with the other key in the ignition.

So what have I done wrong? Am I going to ruin something if I wire the relay in that manner? And is my only problem the universal bypass is not wiRED / working correctly?

Thank you for any help!

On the Starter2 relay wiring, Relay Pin 85 should go to the 4103 Purple (-) Starter Output, not the (-) Accessory Output wire.
If this doesn't work because the 4103's (-) Starter Output wire has a problem, you can wire the Starter2 relay like this :
Relay Pin 86 to Avital thick Purple Starter Output ( which also goes to the Camry Starter1 wire )
Relay Pin 85 to Avital H2/5 BLUE/WHITE (-) 200mA 2ND STATUS/REAR DEFOGGER OUTPUT *** Set to 2nd Status
Relay Pin 87 to +12V consatnt thru 20 Amp fuse
Relay Pin 30 to Camry Starter2 wire @ ignition harness

What brand of universal bypass module are you using? The problem could be that the 4103 BLUE STATUS OUTPUT wire
is not connected to the bypass Ground When Running input wire.

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Soldering is fun!

I have the Directed universal bypass module. Have the blue status wire on the avital connected to the blue wire on the bypass. And the bypass has power and ground.

And IHOH you will need a diode 1N4004 across the terminals 85 and 86, band to 86 of that relay, it's MANDATORY else you will cook the 4103.
When you say starts and dies quickly are we talking 1-2 seconds or 10-15 seconds?
If the first then yes the second starter and possibly the by-pass, if the second you haven't learned tach properly.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Please excuse my ignorance but what is IHOH? Also it starts and runs for 2-3 seconds then stops. If I put another key in the ignition it starts, runs, ands stays on. That points me to the bypass.
Do I really need a diode? I did not read that anywhere.

IHOH is a very colloquial term used only on this forum and coined while an esteemed member was
placed on an involuntary furlough. IHOH = In Honor Of Howie II Howard is a big advocate of protective diodes.

The diode across relay's coil ( pins 85 to 86 ) is a quenching diode to prevent damage to the
remote starter when the coils field collapses and possibly generates a 200v impulse. Here is
an excerpt from this relay info link : https://www.bcae1.com/relays.htm

Quenching Diodes:
Anytime that a relay coil is driven by a circuit that is not specifically designed to drive a relay, you should use a
quenching/suppression diode connected in parallel with the relay coil. The diagram below will show the connection
of the diode. Initially, you may think the diode serves no purpose because the voltage applied to the relay cannot
pass through the diode. This is true when the relay is energized. The diode comes into play when the power source
is removed from the relay coil. When power is applied to the relay coil, a magnetic field is created and energy is
stored in the coil. When power is removed, the magnetic field collapses causing a reverse voltage to be generated
(it's called inductive kickback or back EMF). The back EMF can easily reach 200 volts. The diode will absorb the
reverse voltage spike. This voltage, if not absorbed by the diode, will cause premature failure of switch contacts
and may cause the failure of power switching transistors. You can use virtually any type of rectifier or switching
diode (i.e. 1N4001, 1N4002, 1N400x... or Radio Shack part #s 276-1101, 276-1102, 276-1103, 276-1104).

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Soldering is fun!

Are you sure it has a transponder key? What trimline and what motor is this Camry?

Also Kreg is right; you're now powering up that extra BLACK / YELLOW like an accessory, rather than a starter. You want the small purple to trigger the relay.

Also, while it's always best to be testing all the wiring you do, a quick thing is to put your hand on that relay you made, and you should be able to feel it click on ONLY when the remote starter is starting the car.

I have the utmost respect for Howie, and he's one of our best forum members here, but I do also want to say that I've used those outputs from the 4103 to trigger relays without using any diodes, and without problems. However, he's right that putting that quenching diode on a relay is good practice, although few installers do this.

Thank you to all for the help. I have not had time to try any of the suggestions yet.
To Chris I have a transponder key for sure. I made a copy of the factory key without the expensive transponder electronics inside and the key does not start my car.
How do I know if I fried the purple second output on the 4103? When I had my relay wired the "correct way" (no diode) and tried the remote start, the purple wire on the 4103 never energized. I have the same HU in my accord, should I swap them and try the purple output again? The purple output was not used in my Accord.

Chris, someone else asked me why the diode, proceeded to leave it off and cooked his lock and aux circuits!
I wouldn't risk it with Avital products.
I found out the hard way what a kick the relay gives about 40 years ago!

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Ok first of all let me tell you it is freezing here in michigan!!
I wired the relay with a diode and the way kreg told me to and nothing. So I wired it back the way it is supposed to be with the purple second starter output on the avital connected on the relay and again nothing. When say nothing I mean the starter activates but no crank. So I then hit the remote start again and touch a ground wire to the purple second starter out and it cranks and runs and stays running. I also repositioned the loop on the immobilizer and the remote starter stays running but only if I touch s ground wire to the purple on the avital second starter output. So I'm thinking a ground wire somewhere is not connected or connected properly? I grounded the avital main ground on the 9 pin harness and also the gray and white wire on the 5 pin. I did not use the toggle switch for the gray and white because I didn't use the toggle on my accord. And I also grounded the immobilizer. All at the same point.

Please help. I'm starting to loose my mind!

Anything guys? How can I get a short ground pulse to that purple second starter wire on the avital. That seems to be what I need??

You can wire a relay that uses the current thick gauge violet start wire to engage it.

Pin 87 - connect to 12v fused constant
Pin 30 - to 2nd starter wire in the car
Pin 85 - to ground
Pin 86 - to purple thick gauge start wire from Avital
Pin 87a - no connection

With this setup, you won't need to use that negative violet 2nd starter trigger wire.

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Previously answered...

kreg357 wrote:

On the Starter2 relay wiring, Relay Pin 85 should go to the 4103 Purple (-) Starter Output, not the (-) Accessory Output wire.
If this doesn't work because the 4103's (-) Starter Output wire has a problem, you can wire the Starter2 relay like this :
Relay Pin 86 to Avital thick Purple Starter Output ( which also goes to the Camry Starter1 wire )
Relay Pin 85 to Avital H2/5 BLUE/WHITE (-) 200mA 2ND STATUS/REAR DEFOGGER OUTPUT *** Set to 2nd Status
Relay Pin 87 to +12V consatnt thru 20 Amp fuse
Relay Pin 30 to Camry Starter2 wire @ ignition harness

What brand of universal bypass module are you using? The problem could be that the 4103 BLUE STATUS OUTPUT wire
is not connected to the bypass Ground When Running input wire.

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Soldering is fun!

Thanks Frank!! I will give that a try.

kreg, I am using the directed 556UW
I did connect the blue status on the avital to the blue wire on the bypass. I believe the blue wire is Ground When Running input wire on the bypass. I will check when I get home.
Thanks again and I will keep my fingers crossed.

Thanks kreg for posting that. I sometimes forget to get ground from the status wire.

Instead of pin 85 going straight to ground, I would go with what kreg357 stated and go to the 2nd status wire since we only want that relay working with the remote starter. If it's going to straight ground, it will also activate when the key is turned in the ignition switch.

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posted_image

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Soldering is fun!

Ok nothing worked. I am so wizzed I am not educated enough to realize what's happening. Still the only way I can start it with the remote is to ground the purple - output wire. I wired the relay like everyone said and no dice. I do not understand what is going and I am very discouraged.

This is a learning experience. It can be frustrating but perseverance will win.

Here is a little tid-bit of info from the Viper 5501 install manual concerning the
4-pin satellite harness wires:

Note: Wires 1 - 4 on the remote start auxiliary outputs are wired to the (-) triggers
for the onboard remote start relays and are not diode isolated. If connecting
these wires directly to the vehicle you must place a 1-amp diode in line to prevent
feedback from the vehicle.

Have you tried running Shutdown Diagnostics?

There is something else wrong here. Maybe you are still in MTS mode, haven't learned
the Tach signal yet or something... We need an Avital installer to give us some insight
from their experiences.

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Soldering is fun!

Could you list the wires connected from the Avital to what wires on the Camry? It might help to give a picture of how things are connected.

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When all else fails, Read the Instructions
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From what I've read about the 4103 on this forum and the fact that I just got an Amazon email flier telling me that I could buy a complete 4103 for $43 whereas just the remote for a 5402 would cost me $47, I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions.

-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

kreg357 wrote:

This is a learning experience. It can be frustrating but perseverance will win.

Here is a little tid-bit of info from the Viper 5501 install manual concerning the
4-pin satellite harness wires:

Note: Wires 1 - 4 on the remote start auxiliary outputs are wired to the (-) triggers
for the onboard remote start relays and are not diode isolated. If connecting
these wires directly to the vehicle you must place a 1-amp diode in line to prevent
feedback from the vehicle.

Have you tried running Shutdown Diagnostics?

There is something else wrong here. Maybe you are still in MTS mode, haven't learned
the Tach signal yet or something... We need an Avital installer to give us some insight
from their experiences.

Think this means that if you apply a ground to any of these wires, you will actuate the associated relay. If the Avital unit you are using has the same design, then you are manually starting the engine during your remote start attempt by grounding that (-) Starter wire and forcing the internal Starter relay to energize.

I think kreg is onto something! I highlighted the important part of what he said in bold text for emphasis.

The way the Camry is made, if you fail to power up EITHER starter wire, the car will not crank at all. Doesn't matter which one of the two you happen to get wrong.

Also, the Avital unit has two fuses. One fuse powers the circuitry for the brain, and the internal relays for the Ignition 1 and Ignition 2 outputs.

The second fuse only powers the Starter and Accessory outputs.

Accessory isn't needed on most Toyotas, so if you failed to power that up, you wouldn't even notice a problem.

I wonder if the OP has one of the two fuses blown?

OP: Test both thick red wires where they enter the brain, and make sure both are getting power. Then, just leaving the system set up the way you have it (and with no jumper wires), test BOTH starter wires on the car during remote start.

Once again asking the OP to post/list all of the wire connections from the Avital to what wires on the Camry so we can see the install.

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When all else fails, Read the Instructions
Support the12volt.com Make a Donation

X 2 with smokeman 1.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Just dug this out from a few months ago, 448_tacoma_wiring.bmp
The wire going to the relay terminal 85 is the NEG second starter wire.
Here's a simplified version.4AB_tac_2nd._starter.bmp

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Here's a version of the second starter customised for the 4103.F8D_tac_2nd._starter.bmp

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Have you actually tested that thinner purple wire to see if it goes to ground a few seconds after remote start activation?

-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Thank you very much for all the help! Sorry guys I have been busy at work and at home the past couple days. Plus its been 0 deg in Grand Rapids.
Primary
h1 - h5 nothing connected
h6 - GREEN/ black - works
h7 - blue white - works via relay
h8 - to chassis under dash with self tapping screw- I also clamp my test light to this screw
h9 - green - works
Satellite
1 - to blue on bypass- BTW do I need a bypass if I stick a key under the dash?
2 -X
3- to relay then black yellow - this black yellow tests positive only while starting
4-X
Heavy Gauge
1 - BLACK/ red
2 - black white
3 - blue/red
4&6 both WHITE/ red. Exposed wire jacket, separated wire, and looped both red wires through
5 - BLACK / YELLOW
6 - see 4 above
Door Lock
1- Blue
2-X
3 - blue / YELLOW
Remote Start Harness
h2/1 - grounded same point as h8
h2/2 - X
h2/3 - GREEN / WHITE - Works
h2/4 - connected to hood pin switch - with hood up remote start does not function at all
h2/5 - X
All small gauge wire connected with blue or red tap connectors. The heavy gauge wires are spliced and loop and twisted through the center of the wire. All connections are also taped.
*Chris yes both heavy gauge red wires have constant power all the time
*I will meter the purple second starter output today. I know that the purple starter wire on the Avital does NOT energize unless I ground the second starter output .

Not very helpful, the Avital colours would have been good.
REMOVE and THROW AWAY all those T-Taps, that's the main cause of your grief!
I'll let some others explain why.
You will need to connect the blue (-) key sense to your H3/5 blue/white
Use the by-pass, leaving the key is an invitation to steal, also invalidates your insurance here.
H1/8 Completely wrong s/taps work loose, an M6 (1/4") ring terminal, either crimped or soldered to a 10mm head bolt in the kickwell. Scrape the paintwork away under the bolt.
Grounding via a factory bolt and soldering ALL your connections should end this post to your satisfaction.
Your knowledge is fine, your application awful posted_image

Go to the General section in the Forums and please read the soldering threads.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

BTW, using T-Taps in this country is banned, vibration and moisture borne corrosion will f**k them in about a month, also not as good a joint electrically as solder.
BTW, the section you listed as H2 is in fact H3.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

X 2 with Howard. T-Taps are not a good choice, ever.

H1/1 LIGHT GREEN/ BLACK FACTORY ALARM DISARM Not Used
H1/2 GREEN / WHITE FACTORY REARM              Not Used
H1/3 YELLOW (+) IGNITION OUT (TO ALARM)                Not Used
H1/4 WHITE/ BLUE (-) ACTIVATION INPUT          Not Used
H1/5 ORANGE (-) GROUND WHEN LOCKED    Not Used
H1/6 BROWN (-) HORN OUTPUT            GREEN/ black (-)    @ switch
H1/7 RED / WHITE (-) TRUNK RELEASE OUTPUT         WHITE/ blue 5wi    @ DKP w/relay
H1/8 BLACK GROUND                 Chassis Ground
H1/9 WHITE (+/-) LIGHT FLASH               red (-)    @ switch

Satellite Harness
1 BLUE STATUS OUTPUT        Universal bypass    GWR Input
2 ORANGE (-) ACCESSORY OUTPUT Not Used
3 PURPLE (-) STARTER OUTPUT        To Pin 85 Starter2 external relay
4 PINK (-) Ignition OUTPUT       Not Used

Main Ignition Harness ( thick wires )
1 PINK (+) (30 AMP) OUTPUT TO IGNITION CIRCUIT         BLACK/ Red @ Ignitnion Switch Harness
2 PURPLE (+) (30 AMP) OUTPUT TO STARTER CIRCUIT               BLACK/ White @ Ignitnion Switch Harness
3 ORANGE (+) (30 AMP) OUTPUT TO ACCESSORY CIRCUIT        Blue/Red @ Ignitnion Switch Harness
4 RED (+) (30A) HIGH CURRENT 12 INPUT WHITE/ Red @ Ignitnion Switch Harness
5 PINK/WHITE (+) PROGRAMMABLE FOR ACC2 OR IGN2             BLACK/ .Yellow @ Ignitnion Switch Harness *** Set for IGN2
6 RED (+) (30A) HIGH CURRENT 12V INPUT           WHITE/ Red @ Ignitnion Switch Harness

Door Lock Harness
1 BLUE (-) UNLOCK OUTPUT blue (double pulse) (-) @ DKP
2 EMPTY NOT USED
3 GREEN (-) LOCK OUTPUT blue / YELLOW (-) @ DKP

Remote Start Harness
H2/1 BLACK/ WHITE (-) NEUTRAL SAFETY SWITCH INPUT Chassis Ground
H2/2 VIOLET/WHITE TACHOMETER INPUT WIRE    BLACK/ orange (ac)       @ ECM behind glovebox
H2/3 BROWN (+) BRAKE SWITCH SHUTDOWN WIRE        GREEN / WHITE (+)     @ Brake switch
H2/4 GRAY (-) HOOD PINSWITCH SHUTDOWN WIRE         Avital supplied hood pin
H2/5 BLUE/WHITE (-) 200mA 2ND STATUS/DEFOG OUTPUT         Not Used

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Soldering is fun!

Kreg, doesn't the keysense wire need to be connected?

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Thanks for the constructive criticism. Just for fun I swapped the brain from my working avital 4103 from my accord and the one I have been trying to get to work did not turn the engine over. Did I fry my avital? I swapped my know. Working unit back and my Accord fired right up.

I am going to redo all my connections and connect the second starter relay up the proper way. Then I am going to take my working unit and let her rip!

Any one know what might be wrong inside the avital unit?

One last thing did we settle on if the keysense needs to be connected or not?

You have a second GWR (status wire) at H3/5 blue/white.
Connect that to your blue factory keysense wire.
If you test that purple satellite starter wire, then you'll know if it's faulty won't you.
We can't tell you, you have to test.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

The Keysense wire is normally used to turn off the Factory Alarm, if equipped. Not sure if the OP mentioned anything about his car having a Factory Alarm. Won't hurt to connect it if no Factory Alarm.

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Soldering is fun!

Alright, everyone.....It works! I put my remote starter "brain" from my Accord into my Camry, wired my second starter relay the proper way and it fired right up! Then I also re-connected the wires, no blue and red connectors and tucked everything away nice and neat.

I have a couple of questions.....One the unit has virtual tach. I noticed that maybe 1 out of ten times the remote starter rank doesn't start the car. I will then push the button again and it fires right up. should I connect the tach wire and have the RS learn it?
Also I was wondering if I have the Directed universal bypass in the car with an extra key in the box can I now make a copy of my key with no transponder in it and will it work?

Now I do not have a working remote starter in my car, the Accord but my wife does. :) I left the possibly fried, defective Avital unit at work (accident) so I can not test it. I brought it to work because I have a nice soldering station and calibrated DMM. So maybe at the most I have to cough up 40 more bucks to get a HU.

Thank you all very much for your help and advice! I now have to wire the same unit in my father in law's 2007 Camry. Which is a bit different. I hope it all goes well!