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i think my viper rs is draining my battery

Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Security and Convenience
Forum Discription: Car Alarms, Keyless Entries, Remote Starters, Immobilizer Bypasses, Sensors, Door Locks, Window Modules, Heated Mirrors, Heated Seats, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=133479
Printed Date: October 05, 2022 at 8:32 PM


Topic: i think my viper rs is draining my battery

Posted By: ralph_t
Subject: i think my viper rs is draining my battery
Date Posted: January 31, 2013 at 7:58 PM

My battery in my truck is draining over a three day period. Had battery replaced but same drain. So I performed a amperage test on the negative battery cable and narrowed the problem down to the Ignition +12 volt constant. The only thing connected to that is my viper 570xv security rs system. So I called the installer as its under warranty and they said nring it in and they will take a look.

So I wanted to see for myself if the wires were all properly routed and good connections. They used crimp but connectors and not sure if thats professional. Anyway I am wondering if there is anything I can do before bringing it in. I mean my knee panel is geting pretty beat up and I am particular about keeping my car in shape. So basically I want to be 100% sure that the rs is the problem before bringing it in.

Can I just unplug the module brain and the xk01 bypass and see if thatsgops the drain or could this be a wiring issue? I have double checked the wiring and nothing seems odd except for something I heard in another thread about connecting the 200ma connection on the rs to the orange wire disarm sense on the xk01.

So just wondering what you think and if there is anything I can do. Looking for pointers on narrowing the drain down.

Also, want you guys.gals to know I have installed 160xv and 560xv before myself and never had issues with battery drain. And in case you are wondering the on the battery is approximately .01 volts per each hour. So in three days the battery with end up below 12 volts usually. Thanks!

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2005 GMC Envoy XL
4.2L I6



Replies:

Posted By: Mike M2
Date Posted: January 31, 2013 at 8:59 PM

The first question is, was it this way since you had it installed? A "wiring issue" doesn't change itself, so unless it was just installed wiring isn't the issue. The drain would have been from day one. It could be a product issue tho.

Try and perform the test correctly. If you are doing an amperage test you need to test the amperage draw, not voltage. Put your meter on 200ma and disconnect the battery terminal. Place the terminals on the post and the terminal, then wait for the BCM to fall asleep. You can check the time this takes ahead of time by leaving a door open and time the the interior lights going out, or just wait 20 minutes. If you end up with around 10ma or less your fine.



-------------
Mike M2
Tech Manager
CS Dealer Services




Posted By: ralph_t
Date Posted: January 31, 2013 at 9:53 PM
Mike M2 wrote:

The first question is, was it this way since you had it installed?




Man. Thats difficult to answer. I think this problem has been with me since day one because my battery died once in july and in october before realizing whats going on.
Mike M2 wrote:


It could be a product issue tho


Yep just trying to rule out anything not related to the viper
Mike M2 wrote:


Try and perform the test correctly.


Already did this at the beginning to find the correct fuse.

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2005 GMC Envoy XL
4.2L I6




Posted By: ralph_t
Date Posted: January 31, 2013 at 11:05 PM
I did another amp draw test. With the IGN1 fuse installed I read 40ma draw after letting it sit for a while. Say 5 minutes. With IGN1 fuse removed I read less than 10ma. So my guess is that the remote start is draining my battery. Would a 40ma draw drain a battery in a weeks time? I guess its time to pull the viper module and see if that makes a difference.

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2005 GMC Envoy XL
4.2L I6




Posted By: lucasoil4u
Date Posted: February 01, 2013 at 10:27 AM
Unplug the Brain and see if the Drain goes away.




Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: February 01, 2013 at 12:40 PM
Is there an external (to the Viper) starter cut/anti-grind relay installed and does the relay coil have orange to one side and ignition NOT constant to the other side.
If it's constant 12 volts+ that's your problem.
If you do the draw test as Mike suggested, leave it connected but unplug the Viper module, then redo the test if no difference it isn't the Viper.

-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.




Posted By: ralph_t
Date Posted: February 01, 2013 at 4:09 PM
Oh just remembered. Before I took that measurement of 40ma I found that the installer had the pink and pink/white wires on the xk01 connected to the viper. No reason to do that at all. So I Cut and taped them. Wait and see now.

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2005 GMC Envoy XL
4.2L I6




Posted By: i am an idiot
Date Posted: February 03, 2013 at 5:56 PM
I vote for Howie's answer about using IGN or START instead of constant.




Posted By: ralph_t
Date Posted: February 23, 2013 at 6:43 AM
Ok. Good news. I found the cause of my battery drain. I narrowed it down to the remote start system the installer put in. What I did was disconnect the brain and let it sit. Still had drain. Battery would loose .30 volts in two days. I then disconnected the XK01 and the battery has been holding at 12.50 volts for the past 2 days.

So the XK01 is the problem. Now my question is this. Should I just button everything back up the way the installer had it and let them figure it out all over again or should I take it to the installer and tell them whats wrong and point out the part thats bad?

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2005 GMC Envoy XL
4.2L I6




Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: February 23, 2013 at 6:47 AM
The second.

-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.




Posted By: ralph_t
Date Posted: February 23, 2013 at 7:39 AM
I think I can figure this out myself since I have done these before. Just have one question. Here are the connections wire to wire between the XK01 and my Viper.

XK01:

1 Brown – ?
2 Green – Viper H4/1 Green
3 Blue – Viper H4/3 Blue
4 Violet/White – NC
5 Violet – OBDII pin 2 Violet 
6 Pink/White – NC
7 Pink – NC
8 Orange – NC
9 Red – Soldered to 12v constant red ignition wire (column harness)
10 Black – Soldered together with other grounds and screwed to chassis.

What do I connect to the Brown pin 1 on the XK01? I have had this on all previous remotes ive done connected to the Viper H3/1 BLUE/WHITE (-) 200 mA 2ND STATUS/REAR DEFOGGER - LATCHED/PULSED

I will take another look and see where the installer connected this wire to but I have heard from browsing other forums that if this wire is not connected correctly it can drain the battery. It is called GWR ( grounded while running)

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2005 GMC Envoy XL
4.2L I6




Posted By: offroadzj
Date Posted: February 23, 2013 at 8:31 AM
Connect it to the Status Output / ground when running output of the Viper. It is what actually tells the bypass when to activate. I don't see how it would drain the battery though.

-------------
Kenny
Owner / Technician
KKD Garage LLC
Albany, NY 12205




Posted By: ralph_t
Date Posted: February 23, 2013 at 8:50 AM
offroadzj wrote:

Connect it to the Status Output / ground when running output of the Viper. It is what actually tells the bypass when to activate. I don't see how it would drain the battery though.


In your professional opinion. What would cause an XK01 to drain a battery?

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2005 GMC Envoy XL
4.2L I6




Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: February 23, 2013 at 9:08 AM
He can't answer that unless he looked at the wiring on your vehicle.

-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.




Posted By: offroadzj
Date Posted: February 23, 2013 at 9:36 AM
If it is in fact narrowed down to the XK01 then it has to be one of 3 things:

1) The status output is giving a constant ground signal (or it is hooked up incorrectly; ie to the ground when armed output). The GWR/Status out should ONLY show ground when the remote start is activated.

2) The ground to the chassis is bad. How and where exactly do you have everything grounded.

3) The XK01 is bad.

-------------
Kenny
Owner / Technician
KKD Garage LLC
Albany, NY 12205




Posted By: ralph_t
Date Posted: February 23, 2013 at 2:30 PM
Thanks Kenny. I will take a look tonight and double check connections.

By the way, the installer crimped all the connections and didnt solder any except the high power ones. Is this ok, or would you solder all connections?

-------------
2005 GMC Envoy XL
4.2L I6




Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: February 23, 2013 at 4:16 PM
Always solder.

-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.




Posted By: ralph_t
Date Posted: February 25, 2013 at 10:49 AM
XK01:

Looks like there were a few more connections that I missed. Specifically the orange and PURPLE / white. If you guys/gals don't see any problems here I guess the bypass module itself is bad. Let me know what you think. Thanks!


XK01:

1 Brown – Viper Blue/White - negative 200 mA 2nd status defogger
2 Green – Viper H4/1 Green
3 Blue – Viper H4/3 Blue
4 Violet/White – Green - Negative Door Trigger Input
5 Violet – OBDII pin 2 Violet
6 Pink/White – NC
7 Pink – NC
8 Orange – Viper GREEN/ Black - Factory Alarm Disarm

9 Red – Soldered to 12v constant red ignition wire (column harness)
10 Black – Soldered together with other grounds and screwed to chassis.


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2005 GMC Envoy XL
4.2L I6




Posted By: offroadzj
Date Posted: February 25, 2013 at 3:50 PM
How is it screwed to the chassis? Is it going to a factory bolt or just through a screw? If it is through just a screw, remove it and move the ground to a factory bolt.. the screws tend to loosen over time and cause multiple issues.

Test to make sure the 2nd status output (blue/white) is only giving a ground signal while remote started. It should not provide a ground at any point with the remote starter not activated.

Also test for constant voltage with the black lead of your meter on the ground pin directly at the XK01 and the red lead on the 12v input pin directly at the XK01.

-------------
Kenny
Owner / Technician
KKD Garage LLC
Albany, NY 12205




Posted By: ralph_t
Date Posted: February 25, 2013 at 4:36 PM
offroadzj wrote:

How is it screwed to the chassis? Is it going to a factory bolt or just through a screw? If it is through just a screw, remove it and move the ground to a factory bolt.. the screws tend to loosen over time and cause multiple issues.


They used a self tapping screw and star washer with a terminal connection. Its screwed to the front drivers door pillar. Tested continuity and it is good.

offroadzj wrote:

Test to make sure the 2nd status output (blue/white) is only giving a ground signal while remote started. It should not provide a ground at any point with the remote starter not activated.


Yes, it will only ground when remote starting. Tested this between the 12 volt red and brown wires. Wiggled them with no difference. This is good.


offroadzj wrote:

Also test for constant voltage with the black lead of your meter on the ground pin directly at the XK01 and the red lead on the 12v input pin directly at the XK01.


Good

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2005 GMC Envoy XL
4.2L I6




Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: February 25, 2013 at 4:46 PM
WRONG Never ever use self tappers. It will work loose in about 4 months.
Are there any relays in this install and is the 12V+ at the coil, 85 or 86 constant live or constant with either alarm on or alarm off?

-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.




Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: February 25, 2013 at 4:53 PM
Correct procedure is to locate an existing bolt or tapped thread, usually M6 (10mm spanner head) remove it, remove the body paint from around the hole then crimp using an M6 (1/4") ring using a compound action crimper (not a $5 home depot product).
DEI says don't use existing grounding bolts but I've personally never seen why not, if it's good enough for the car maker.......
Either my last post or subject to seeing their install their wiring wasn't correct.
The truth is Kenny and I can't really help it's between you and your installers.
Frankly if a customer has a problem, I'd want them to contact me first.
The very fact that you've examined some of it and maybe played with the by-pass wiring would be grounds to negate the warrantee.

-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.




Posted By: ralph_t
Date Posted: February 25, 2013 at 4:54 PM
howie ll wrote:

WRONG Never ever use self tappers. It will work loose in about 4 months.


Hmm. Seems pretty well secured. But I will bring it up with the installer. I aint changing his main connections. This thing is under warranty and I dont want it to be apparent that I worked on it.

howie ll wrote:

Are there any relays in this install and is the 12V+ at the coil, 85 or 86 constant live or constant with either alarm on or alarm off?


There are no relays in this install.

-------------
2005 GMC Envoy XL
4.2L I6




Posted By: ralph_t
Date Posted: February 25, 2013 at 5:01 PM
howie ll wrote:

Correct procedure is to locate an existing bolt or tapped thread, usually M6 (10mm spanner head) remove it, remove the body paint from around the hole then crimp using an M6 (1/4") ring using a compound action crimper (not a $5 home depot product).
DEI says don't use existing grounding bolts but I've personally never seen why not, if it's good enough for the car maker.......
Either my last post or subject to seeing their install their wiring wasn't correct.
The truth is Kenny and I can't really help it's between you and your installers.
Frankly if a customer has a problem, I'd want them to contact me first.
The very fact that you've examined some of it and maybe played with the by-pass wiring would be grounds to negate the warrantee.


Yeah I have read the manual and am familiar with the proper grounding proceedure.

Should I call DEI and report the shop?

They wouldnt know that I played with anything.

So I am kind of confused. Earlier you said to tell the installer my findings and tell them the problem is the bypass module. Now your telling me not to mess with anything.

Screw it, I will just bring it in. This friggin thing will never get fixed with those monkey over at the shop. But I appreciate all your help.

-------------
2005 GMC Envoy XL
4.2L I6




Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: February 25, 2013 at 5:02 PM
Locate the fuse at H1/1, remove it and with your red probe towards the source and the black towards the R/S, place the probes in the fuse holder either side.
Set your meter to DC 20 amps, it shouldn't be drawing more that 25 mAMP when on, about 5 when off.

-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.




Posted By: ralph_t
Date Posted: February 25, 2013 at 5:07 PM
howie ll wrote:

Locate the fuse at H1/1, remove it and with your red probe towards the source and the black towards the R/S, place the probes in the fuse holder either side.
Set your meter to DC 20 amps, it shouldn't be drawing more that 25 mAMP when on, about 5 when off.


doodie, why disnt I think of that. Thanks.

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2005 GMC Envoy XL
4.2L I6




Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: February 25, 2013 at 5:08 PM
I've just been over this whole thread.
You mentioned the by-pass module.
DEI won't be interested, take it back to the shop.

-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.




Posted By: ralph_t
Date Posted: February 25, 2013 at 6:06 PM
howie ll wrote:

Locate the fuse at H1/1, remove it and with your red probe towards the source and the black towards the R/S, place the probes in the fuse holder either side.
Set your meter to DC 20 amps, it shouldn't be drawing more that 25 mAMP when on, about 5 when off.


Well the XK01 is connected before any fuses. Isnt it supposed to have one?

Anyway at the ignition fuse which feeds the constant 12 volts which the XK01 runs off of I get 30 milliamps with it plugged in and 10 milliamps with it unplugged. I bet if I disconnect the brain thats where the other 10 amps is going.

-------------
2005 GMC Envoy XL
4.2L I6




Posted By: ralph_t
Date Posted: February 25, 2013 at 6:07 PM
Excuse me . I meant 10 mA

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2005 GMC Envoy XL
4.2L I6




Posted By: ralph_t
Date Posted: February 25, 2013 at 6:08 PM
The relay center for the Viper draws no amps at rest.

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2005 GMC Envoy XL
4.2L I6




Posted By: 91stt
Date Posted: February 25, 2013 at 11:46 PM
howie ll wrote:

DEI says don't use existing grounding bolts but I've personally never seen why not, if it's good enough for the car maker.......


This recommendation is to limit feedback and noise induction to the vehicle's components mainly but it also goes the other way too. Where the an ECU may cause undesirable effects to the aftermarket product that is installed.

-------------
This information is provided only as a reference.
All circuits should be verified with a digital multi-meter prior to making any connections.




Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: February 26, 2013 at 3:13 AM
Thanks.

-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.




Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: February 26, 2013 at 3:17 AM
Ralph, not familiar with that unit but as a plain by-pass it should draw nothing at rest.
As a data conversion unit it still seems too much to me.
As an example most GPS trackers draw under 1mA.

-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.




Posted By: ralph_t
Date Posted: February 26, 2013 at 9:39 AM
The strange thing about all of this is if I remove the ignition fuse which the remote start and bypass use power from then the battery doesnt die in three days. The rs and bypass are only using 30mA which shouldnt drain the battery. I can actually watch the volts go down .01 in one hours time.

I wonder if because its below 32 degrees something is getting activated like the rear defrost or something.
If I take this in they are going to say there is no problem.

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2005 GMC Envoy XL
4.2L I6




Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: February 26, 2013 at 9:47 AM
Rear defrost should only activate after R/S is engaged.

-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.




Posted By: ralph_t
Date Posted: February 26, 2013 at 9:55 AM
Im wondering if the battery is toast. I set off the alarm yesterday with the headlights on for about 10 seconds with the siren blaring. I saw the battery voltage dropped to 11.75. I kept the meter on the battery and it took 20 minutes for the voltage to come back up to 12.5

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2005 GMC Envoy XL
4.2L I6




Posted By: ralph_t
Date Posted: February 26, 2013 at 10:02 AM
howie ll wrote:

Rear defrost should only activate after R/S is engaged.


Yeah, thats my understanding as well. Apparently something is engaged if its using so much power. I am going to get a new battery to see if it is a reserve capacity issue. Yesterday I charged the battery when it was at 12.3 volts and it only took 5 minutes to charge up to 12.6 which seems very short at a 10 amp charge rate.

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2005 GMC Envoy XL
4.2L I6




Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: February 26, 2013 at 10:38 AM
I left this line out of my last post because I was sure you said earlier that you changed your battery but I might have been wrong.
Have your battery thoroughly tested.

-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.




Posted By: ralph_t
Date Posted: February 26, 2013 at 11:00 AM
howie ll wrote:

I left this line out of my last post because I was sure you said earlier that you changed your battery but I might have been wrong.
Have your battery thoroughly tested.


I did replace the battery a few months ago but was still experiencing the same drain problem. So I returned the battery and using the original again. I kept it and didn't return as a core.

-------------
2005 GMC Envoy XL
4.2L I6




Posted By: ralph_t
Date Posted: February 26, 2013 at 1:10 PM
So I brought it into the shop today and the first thing they did was pull the ignition fuse and took a amp reading. 30mA. They said that is nothing and not the cause of the drain. They also said 8 times out of 10 its the battery. So I guess I am back to square one. Thats weird because the when I disconnect the remote start and bypass thebattery never drains. Why or how can a 30mA draw kill a battery in 3 to 4 days is beyond me. It should last 2 or 3 weeks. Right?

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2005 GMC Envoy XL
4.2L I6




Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: February 26, 2013 at 1:14 PM
In the UK climate about 10 days, your winters about 5 days.
The ONLY fuse that should have any drain with the ignition off is at H1/1.

-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.




Posted By: ralph_t
Date Posted: February 26, 2013 at 2:46 PM
H1/1. Is that the power wire to the remote start? If so it is the only one pulling 20mA

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2005 GMC Envoy XL
4.2L I6




Posted By: ralph_t
Date Posted: February 26, 2013 at 3:33 PM
Going over all the wiring. So far found H3/5 blue/white -200 second status rear defog was grounded to frame.

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2005 GMC Envoy XL
4.2L I6




Posted By: ralph_t
Date Posted: February 26, 2013 at 3:46 PM
Sorry make H3/1 BLACK/ white neutral safety switch was connected to ground. Not 3/5

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2005 GMC Envoy XL
4.2L I6




Posted By: ralph_t
Date Posted: February 26, 2013 at 4:43 PM
All the wiring looks good. Checking on that grounded neutral safety switch connection. Not sure if that is right.

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2005 GMC Envoy XL
4.2L I6




Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: February 26, 2013 at 4:47 PM
That's all as expected then. I did say H1/1 as the only way to test it.
The other constant feeds on H/3 should only draw once the R/S is activated.
I think you mean H2/2 BLACK/ white and yes it should be grounded if an auto, otherwise connect it to the reverse light feed. If it doesn't see a ground it won't start.

-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.




Posted By: ralph_t
Date Posted: February 26, 2013 at 4:50 PM
I have a 560XV not 570XV. So I think connections might be different.

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2005 GMC Envoy XL
4.2L I6




Posted By: ralph_t
Date Posted: February 26, 2013 at 4:54 PM
OK I will ground the BLACK/ white neutral safety again and fix them to a better ground. I will tie all three grounds to a higher gauge black wire and bolt it to a proper point.

Your right about that self tapping screw. One turn and it came right off. Wasn't screwed in well at all.

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2005 GMC Envoy XL
4.2L I6




Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: February 26, 2013 at 6:21 PM
I noticed that but I'm too polite to say anything posted_image
There was a never a 570XV, there was a 500 and a 460 and 480 though in the UK.

-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.




Posted By: ralph_t
Date Posted: November 04, 2014 at 1:29 PM
Hi all. I realize I never did follow up on this. I never let anyone know how it went or what I found out with my trucks parasitic drain.

I just wanted to update since last year that I got a new battery a couple of months ago (Duracell AGM). It works well but I am concerned it will get run down just like the last ACDelco battery and start to sulfate. It will get cold soon and I want to solve this once and for all.

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2005 GMC Envoy XL
4.2L I6





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