led backup lights and remote start

I have a Clifford Solaris G4 Alarm/Remote Start on my 2002 Chevy Avalanche. It has been fine for 10 years after a professional install. I recently added LED taillights and backup lights. Now the remote start will not work. I switched the backup lights back to factory bulbs, and it works fine. I assume that pin H3/10 on the intellistart module Blue/Green is to blame. The install manual says the blue/green wire should show 12V when shifter is in reverse, and no voltage when not in reverse. I'm not sure if I need to add load resistors, or what? Any ideas as to how I can use LED backup lights with the remote start? Thanks.

That makes no sense at all. Regardless of the type of bulb, the vehicle will always send 12 volts to the lights. The reason you tend to require load equalizers with LED lighting is only to fix a fast blink with blinkers due to the vehicle not recognizing the lights and thinking a bulb is out... it does not affect the voltage sent to the lights.

I would disconnect that wire and see if the problem continues. Otherwise, what exactly happens when you try to remote start it?

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Kenny
Owner / Technician
KKD Garage LLC
Albany, NY 12205

Had this problem on a Solaris G4 about 7 years ago installed on a Renault.
Suddenly "seemed" to stop working after a year.
I then noticed the just added LED brake lights and disconnected the foot brake feed, voilà R/S enabled.
The LEDs appeared to be sending about 3 volts back to the R/S.
Feeding the foot brake feed to the Solaris via a relay was the answer.
The relay won't turn on until it "sees" about 7.5 volts so that will cure the problem.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

BTW blue/green to reverse then it simply sees 12V+ rather than NEG (-) and will therefore inhibit R/S. It's blue/white to the brake switch.
So re-reading your OP I'd use a relay to take the blue/green to ground and trigger it via the reverse here's the set-up:-brake_and_reverse,_relay_isolation.bmp

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

I will disconnect the blue/green later today after work to test, then install a relay if necessary. When attempting to r/s with the LED backup lights the startup procedure would begin, ignition circuit, fuel pump, the accessories would turn on, but the starter would not engage. With one LED backup light, and the other one a factory bulb, the starter would crank, the engine would start, but immediately shut off. With both factory backup lights, it works as normal. While I admit I'm not a professional installer, I am pretty knowledgeable when it comes to basic circuits, but this just didn't seem to make sense. The relay sounds like it should fix the problem. I'll post back with my results.
Thanks!

You should need 2 relays, one for brake feed the other for reverse.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Do the brake lights need the relay? The brake/tail/turn are all LED now and the r/s is working fine. It's only when I switch the backup lights to LED that I have the problem.

Try it with one but I think you'll need both.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

OK, so I just got done adding a relay to the blue/green (H3/10) wire, and all is good. I now have my LEDs and my remote start working. I'm still curious as to why this occurs. If this hadn't been my vehicle, and I hadn't put the LEDs in myself, I doubt I would have even thought of the backup lights as the culprit.

Thank you so much Howie for your assistance on this trouble.

That's a pleasure to help, trouble is I only knew the answer because I'd come across it some years ago also with a Solaris, in that case it was the brake switch.
These seems to be about 2-3 volts coming back from the light clusters as soon as the ignition turns on, I haven't any idea why,the Solaris is sensitive enough to detect this voltage.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

This reminds me of (I think it was) a cruise control that had a similar issue where it needed a pull-down (resistance) to GND to work. However the solution the manufacturer's site gave was totally wrong and (naturally) blew fuses. It's not one of the brands above, and yes - it was written about on the12volt. And yes, it is still in the back of my mind to chase up the manufacturers and their stupid solution (and possibly, poor design).    


But why brake or reverse LEDs should have a voltage across them?
Maybe if some "blown bulb" checking circuit was used, but that would alert after the LEDs were fitted.


Oh - stupid me! It's the remote start unit itself. It needs to sense GND - or rather, "not 12V" at the bulbs/LEDs.
Hence it has an internal pull up resistor etc (say 1k - 10k) and the LED fwd voltage drop means it never sees GND. Same problem as the cruise control(?) I mentioned...

There are hence 2 solutions - either the relay(s), or a resistor to ground which is small enough to pull the remote-start's sensing terminal down enough (maybe 1k?) noting that that resistor has to handle the full 12V. (EG - for a 1/2W resistor and 15V, Rmin = 470 Ohm.)
[ Though a diode could be fitted so that the brake +12V doesn't back feed into the added resistor, but that brings in the issue of the design intent of that circuit - ie, blown bulbs/LEDs or no connection to the lights renders the remote start or cruise control etc inoperative. But then these circuits should be triggered from the brake & reverse etc switches - not their lights. ]


BTW Howard - can't you combine those 2 relays into 1 by ORing (diode isolating) the 2 inputs?

Yes of course you can but I was designing that circuit as I was drawing it. I have so many relays, I should have thought of it.
Keep the two inputs, diode separate the inputs, 2 amps on each so you'd need 1N5404s and either the blue/white or the blue/green either would be the only one needed.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Here you go:-8D3_brake_and_reverse,_relay_isolation.bmp

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

I'm a complete fool, this should be far simpler with apologies to all and thanks to Oldspark for the wake-up call.
All you need are a pair of 1N5402/3/4 diodes.
Radio Shack etc.D39_brake_and_reverse,_relay_isolation.bmp
It should now be called brake and reverse, DIODE isolation. Doh

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Now I'm confused... I was thinking Howard's original diagram only needed 1N400x (1A) diodes since the switches merely turned on the relays (250mA max). [It showed the 2 switches each thru diodes to a single relay coil #86, but Howard has now substituted that with the new diagram - and I failed to save the original as evidence!]

Not that I'm here about that - nor will I try to clear my head enough to reassess the new diagram...

But FYI - I finally found that old thread. [After searching my old posts - trying to remember "when" and what the thread could be called, and then reading thru a few (hence my unclear head!) - I finally googled. Gotta love google's site:the12volt.com and using "oldpsark" to avoid returns for old spark...]

It's the 5-pager led third brake light relay started by bbstacker 7072 and involving the usual suspects howie ll and myself with racerjames76 popping in later for a 3-way interchange before bbstacker returns on page 5.

I still intend to follow up on this Rostra issue - especially now that I have recovered that thread - but I'll see what updates they have made since, not that their rostra.com/rostra-support page has changed.
(Note my mistake in my first reply to bbstacker's thread. I state that Rostra say "do not let the violet wire see ground...". In fact the full line is "LEDs do not let the violet wire see ground...". Does that show the dangers of my improper reading, or the dangers with poor paragraph/sentence formatting? I'll blame Rostra since they also ground #86 of the relay instead of #85...)
And I'll have to review what the problem was. As I recall, it was a short from the +12V brake switch else +12V to GND in some implementations, but maybe it's been where LED users use diode type spike protected relays? (I was going to add "how embarrassing", but I'm not. However it supports my oft written & stated view that ANYONE can be wrong or make mistakes. At least I'm still right about that!)

Now with big apologies to flip_5 for this hijack (albeit related by subject issue) though that other thread mentions the same resistor solution or its equivalent but non-elegant standard bulb in parallel.


I'll get back to the relay solution later, though I was thinking of merely using 1N400x diodes to a common #86 and relay for the Solaris. (If 2 circuits - namely brake and reverse - then a single relay should still be fine.)   

No Peter on that last diagram I'm was admittedly thinking incandescant bulb but since they are LED bulbs, subject to me not knowing the current draw I stuck with 1N54XX as a safety.
1N4004 are probably adequate.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Peter, I'm usually trying to answer 3 posts at once, chat with 2 or 3 other members via PM and email, sort out and research my next install, all at the same time, plus be nice for a change to the morons plus fighting off senile dementia. Give us a break cobber.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Yeah, we are the same. I know exactly what you mean with multi-threading (PC cores only recently got that to work, and they are far younger than us) - just look at my messes - it was only a few weeks ago I had another bad spate hereon.

Me give you a break?
No - you give yourself a break. That's why I'm not "thinking" about these latest replies now - I don't want to break myself!
LOL... Certainly not intended to crit or hound etc.
Besides, me hound or crit you? Sorry man, but even if I did, with all your concise "bang on" knowledgeable replies, what credibility would I have?
As to the odd mistake - if indeed they are mistakes - geez, make more. I bewonder how more are NOT made with so many things going on! Please join us mere humans...


But now to leave for that other world. Maybe I'll be fresher upon my return (for this thread, and maybe my Rostram speech). (Never too tired for puns?)