ignition kill/starter kill

I just got a manual trans 98 Honda Civic and I put a Viper with remote start in it. The Viper is nice but It only offers starter interrupt in it now. I don't feel that great about only having a starter kill on a manual transmission. Why don't alarms have a choice of ignition kill or starter kill? I used to have a Clifford Concept 60 in a Toyota truck years ago and it had starter, ignition, and fuel kill. What is the best way to add ignition kill to an alarm?

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Git'r done

The best ignition kill is usually to short the points or sensor output or ignitor output (ie, coil-) to GND.
That way no break in the existing circuity is required, just the addition of an "external" short. (IE - it's quite hazardous if an in-line ignition kill breaks during running.)

Also, I don't see the point of fuel kills these days except for diesels. Why kill the fuel with injectors running and hence wear injectors?

Forgive my lack of knowledge, but can you explain how to "The best ignition kill is usually to short the points or sensor output or ignitor output (ie, coil-) to GND.

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Git'r done

Except for CDIs and certain rare ignitions, the IgCoil is connected to +12V with the other end to the points or ignitor that connect to GND (to charge the coil) and then open for the spark.
Shorting the coil- (points or ignitor ouput) to GND means the IgCoil won't spark.

One problem with that is the IgCoil remains connected and takes current which can overheat the coil. (Old IgCoils were 12V else had an external ballast resistor. Newer IgCoils for typical electronic ignitions are lower impedance (higher current) and depend on the ignitor to switch off after a short period etc.)


Hence instead the preferred method of shorting the sender output to GND, or across itself.
Most sensors (optic, Hall effect) are like points - either grounded else not. Reluctors are a transformer output, but they can be shorted to GND, or their output wires shorted together.   
Hence the ignitor operates as normal and does not leave the IgCoil turned on.

The issue with doing ignition kill is that a failure of a component could cause the vehicle to completely shut down unexpectedly. In the right circumstances, this could cause a major safety issue (ie going down the highway at 70 mph and have the vehicle just shut off). That is why most companies don't offer any kind of ignition kill.

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Kenny
Owner / Technician
KKD Garage LLC
Albany, NY 12205

Also, not exactly related to this thread, but make sure that you are using a Viper remote start system that is designed for a manual transmission and that it is connected correctly to prevent the vehicle from starting in gear.

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Kenny
Owner / Technician
KKD Garage LLC
Albany, NY 12205

I WILL NOT do ignition or fuel circuit kills, MUCH too dangerous.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

I've had an ignition kill fail myself and it sucked as i was on a trip. I don't recommend them as it is a high energy circuit on that car and could fail easily. Try fuel, it's a better way to go..

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Mike M2
Tech Manager
CS Dealer Services

Again, I do NOT recommend fuel kills. Do you want to crank the engine with dry injectors? (Fuel kills should merely be a safety device to cut fuel when the engine has stopped.)

If it's EFI, there are probably several ways to kill the EFI depending on which model. Disable key sensors...

But again, as a rule, you do not want to interrupt a circuit - ie, you do not want to insert a series relay or switch that could break connection when driving (or when legitimately required).

Ok, i should have said i would do fuel kill as long as it is with a starter kill also. This way the car can't crank unless there is fuel pressure. That said, i have messed with interupting immobilizer systems. Easy in some cars, where you can interupt the power to the immobilizer ring. If something goes wrong and the car is already running it won't stop the car.

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Mike M2
Tech Manager
CS Dealer Services

Very good info by all of you, much appreciated. I had not given much thought to the possibilities of the ign kill going wrong at the wrong time. And yeah, I did install the remote start as per alarm manual, have to go through a shut down procedure so it will start. So what I'll do then is maybe the EFI kill.

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Git'r done