honda civic 2012, viper 424, adsalca

Hello, I am in need of confirming wiring for my Honda Civic 2012 for remote start with the Viper 4204/Python 424 and iDataLink's ADS-AL-CA using D2D wiring. I have done my research on DBALL and have read many bad reviews about difficulty in remote starting. I have proposed the following for wiring the Honda Civic 2012, as I cannot find an official post about it on https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/vehiclewiring/1/yeard/Honda.html. Please suggest and correct:

IMMOBILIZER
First, flash to DBI-AL(DL)-HA3 (1.4). Installation Guide: https://cdncontent2.idatalink.com/corporate/Content/Manuals/DL-HA3/DBI-AL(DL)-HA3-EN_20130305.pdf
Using Installation Type 2,

Immobilizer side ~~ Car side
Pink Ignition input ~~ White 7 pin 2 Yellow @ Ignition cylinder
BROWN / Red CanH ~~ White 7 pin 4 Pink @ Ignition cylinder
BROWN / Yellow CanL ~~ White 7 pin 3 Blue @ Ignition cylinder
ORANGE / Black Key Data ~~ White 7 pin 6 LtGreen @ Ignition cylinder
Blue/Yel shorted to WHITE/ Black on immobilizer
WHITE/ red unlock ~~ unlock (-) on driver door
White lock ~~ lock (-) on driver door
Blue/red ground ~~ GND
Purple / YELLOW ground ~~ GND

Apparently, the door harness wiring is required because the car will ignore keyless signals from the bypass once started. I'm not sure whether the door harness should be controlled by the bypass or starter.

REMOTE STARTER
https://www.12voltdistributors.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Viper_4204V_Installation_Guide.pdf
starter side ~~ car side
H1/1 red ~~ connected to white wire, pin 1, @ 5-Pin plug ignition switch
H3/2 RED / white ~~ same as above
H3/5 red ~~ same as above
H3/8 RED / black ~~ same as above

H1/2 black ~~ connected to chassis ground
H3/3 orange accessory output ~~ orange wire, pin 4, @ 5-Pin plug ignition switch (to heater blower 1)
H3/4 violet starter output ~~ yellow cut. to car
H3/5 green starter input ~~ yellow cut. to key side, pin 5, @ 5-Pin plug ignition
H3/7 pink/white relay output ~~ red wire, pin 3, @ 5-Pin plug ignition switch (to heater blower 2)

Connect d2d link

Set Viper to Flex Relay = ACC2 ( Menu 3, Item 8, Opt 2 )

Additional references:
https://diagrams.marktoonen.nl/index.aspx?MakeID=3&ModelID=20426
https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp~TID~133242
https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=133831&DIR=P&fid=3

Thank you in advance to the person who confirms.

Assuming your Civic is auto trans...

H1/5 WHITE PIN 30 of LIGHT FLASH RELAY     Set Jumper / Fuse to (-) and connect wire to
Parking Lights Gray (-)      @ headlight switch, 12 pin plug, pin 8

I never do D2D, so not sure if D2D connects the EBrake to the Neutral Safety wire, but...
H2/2 BLACK/ WHITE (-) NEUTRAL SAFETY INPUT to chassis ground if automatic transmission

If the Civic does not have a Factory Alarm and Hood Pin then connect
H2/17 GRAY (-) HOOD PIN INPUT (NC OR NO) to the hood pin supplied in the R/S kit.

Here is some additional info on the door lock wires :
Power Lock        Blue (-)        @ driver kick, door harness, 23 pin plug, pin 16   
Power Unlock      Gray (-)        @ driver kick, door harness, 23 pin plug, pin 20

Not a big DEI person, so not sure if the R/S will automatically switch over to Engine Checking = Tach.
You should do a Tach Learn and get a good response ( after the ADS AL CA is programmed ).

Other than that, it looks good.

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Soldering is fun!

Thanks for the information Kreg. This is indeed an automatic transmission and does have factory alarm and hood pin. I have updated the wiring with your suggestions.

Immobilizer side ~~ Car side
WHITE/ red unlock ~~ Power Unlock, Gray (-), @ driver kick, door harness, 23 pin plug, pin 20
White lock ~~ Power Lock, Blue (-), @ driver kick, door harness, 23 pin plug, pin 16

REMOTE STARTER
H1/5 WHITE PIN 30 of LIGHT FLASH RELAY     Set Jumper / Fuse to (-) and connect wire to Parking Lights Gray (-) @ headlight switch, 12 pin plug, pin 8
H2/2 BLACK/ White (-) Neutral Safety input GREEN/ red - e-break switch
H2/4 Disarm - Green /Black ~~ Factory Alarm Disarm brown (driver door key unlock) driver kick, door harness, 23 pin plug, pin 14
H2/16 BROWN (+) BRAKE SHUTDOWN INPUT ~~ LT. GREEN (+) @ BRAKE PEDAL SWITCH, BLUE 4-PIN PLUG, PIN 1
H2/17 GRAY (-) HOOD PIN INPUT (NC OR NO) ~~ lt. blue - dash fuse box, 38 pin plug (C), pin 27
H2/24 Arm - Green / White ~~ Factory Alarm Arm pink (driver door key lock) driver kick, door harness, 23 pin plug, pin 23

Regarding your comment on DEI, what would you suggest as a better alternative for a remote start within a $100-200 budget.

The R/S system you have chosen is fine. As with all major brands, the big difficulty is the lack of
support from the manufacturer for DIYers. They will not provide any Tech Support and will not
honor the warranty on any product not installed by an authorized Directed dealer. They also
limit availability of the full installation guides. Also, be aware that access to the iDatalink WEB site
to flash the bypass module is restricted to authorized 12 Volt professionals. If you don't meet their
qualifications, you must try to find a source that will supply a flashed bypass module.

My mention of the D2D connection stems from issues encountered ( years ago ). Just for piece of
mind, I still make all the connections between the R/S brain and the bypass module hardwired in the
W2W method. Zero issues, 100% reliability and easy to test / troubleshoot if there is a problem.
That being said, I have heard that the D2D comm is improving and you might get flawless service
that way.

Getting back to your Civic install, the ADS AL CA bypass module should handle the car's alarm
system fine thru Data ( CAN Bus ) with no extra connections between the R/S and vehicle. That
means H2/4 and H2/24 are unnecessary connections. Also the H2/17 Hood Pin and the H2/16
Brake connections can be deleted because those signals are supplied by the ADS bypass module
and are handled by the D2D interface. The only one I'm not sure about is H2/2. I think it might be the
EBrake D2D signal but you will have to test to be sure ( or go W2W and connect it that way ). Basically,
all the Red dashed wires on the ADS AL CA with DBI-AL(DL)-HA3 firmware Type 2 install diagram are
handled by the D2D connection. For me, going in W2W mode, I make all those connections and it is
more logical to understand / see what is going on. I know where the Tach signal is coming from. I know
that the Neutral Safety input is the EBrake signal from the ADS bypass module, the R/S's Brake input is
from the ADS bypass module, etc. Additionally, I can put a Digital Multi Meter on any of those wires and
verify correct operation ( Hood Pin status, for example ).

The iDatalink bypass module is a good choice. Just remember to set the Install Mode first, then program
it to the Civic. It has to be programmed and working properly to supply the R/S brain with the inputs it
needs ( Tach, Brake, Door Status, etc ) and be able to take the R/S's commands ( Lock, Unlock, etc ) and
send them on to the Civic.

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Soldering is fun!

Thanks for the extensive info. How do I link this page onto https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/vehiclewiring/1/yeard/Honda.html. so I can help others.

Good question. Perhaps one of the Moderators can help on that.

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Soldering is fun!

I'm having some trouble locating the 23-pin connector for power lock. I have removed the kick panel here:

You can take a closer look at the connectors here:

Try to locate the actual door harness coming in to the DKP from the door thru the flexible rubber boot. Then
follow that harness to the 23 pin connector mentioned in the wiring guides.   Sorry, I don't have a picture of
that connector.

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Soldering is fun!

Ok, I found the 23 pin connector.

The gray wire is power unlock. However, there's conflicting information. According to https://diagrams.marktoonen.nl/index.aspx?MakeID=3&ModelID=20426, the blue wire is power lock.
According to https://www.xpresskit.com/DocumentDownload.aspx?documentid=7122&productid=461&firmwareid=2382, the pink wire is power lock (installation type 5). There is no documentation regarding pin number in idatalink's installation guide.

Interesting find. I don't use the DB-ALL bypass, so I can't comment on their module or the Type 5 diagram
instructions. However, if you look closely at the included photo of the lock wires, you will see they have marked
the Gray Unlock wire and the Blue Lock wire.

I do use iDatalink modules and have found their information extremely accurate over the years.   Not to muddy
the waters but here is a link to the EVO-ALL install guide for your Civic : https://ifar.ca/download/7751/preview.html
They use the Gray and Blue wires and have a diagram of the wires location in the Blue connector ( see Connection 2 ).

I believe proper testing will identify the wire ( I would be following the iDatalink guide ) and I would be looking for
a Blue Lock wire, not Pink. If you need more info and are willing to spend a few bucks, try the Fortin WireColor
service. They list 17 wires with 20 photos for the 2012 Civic. Here is a link : https://wirecolor.com/en/

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Soldering is fun!

Thanks Kreg,
I made all the connections. However, the remote starter's control LED does not light up. The immobilizer bypass, which is connected only by the datalink, does have an indicator LED which blinks green. I was able to perform the module programming for the immobilizer bypass. On the other hand, the remote starter is dead. I have tried turning the key to ignition, acc, and on. After pressing the control button or holding the control button, I see no LED light still.

Nevermind, Please ignore post above.

I was unable to make the remote start completely functional. I have the immobilizer and remote starter connected via D2D. When I remote started it, it fires right up and lasts for about 10-30 seconds. Then the engine shuts down without any user intervention. The remote starter then tries to crank the car again but fails 2 times. The green key sign in the car is blinking while this happens. Shutdown diagnostic codes indicate that there is a remote shutdown but I haven't pressed any buttons on the remote. I have also uploaded the latest firmware on the immobilizer and run through initialization again, without any change.

However, I changed the engine detection settings of the remote starter. I have tried virtual tach, voltage, and OFF. This problem resolves when I change the setting to OFF. What are the dangers of turning off engine detect for a remote starter?

No dangers at all. Engine Checking = OFF gives you a fixed crank time set by Menu 3, Item 3. It might over-crank
when the engine is warm and under crank during the winter.

The big question is why you are not running in Tach Mode. If you have joined the Viper and the iDatalink
bypass in the W2W mode, just connect the Vipers' Tach Input wire to the bypasses Tach Output wire. You
will have to program the Viper for Engine Checking = Tach and do a Tach Learn, too. The iDatalink bypass
module outputs a nice Tach signal and ensures a reliable start-up every time.

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Soldering is fun!

I connected via D2D not W2W because I did not want to run a wire from the engine through the firewall. Any explanation why the remote starter would automatically kill the engine after it successfully started it for 30 seconds?

From your info, it seems to do with Viper Engine checking ( it does try to restart twice ). Of course, the Green blinking Key is a concern.

You could try checking the Viper Shutdown Diagnostics.

If you connected D2D ( I'm confused ) that signal should come thru the D2D harness ( Red dashed line ). Try it by programming to Tach Mode and doing a Tach Learn. If the Viper gives a successful Tach Learn, try a few remote starts.

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Soldering is fun!

Its looking for tach and doesnt see the engine is running. It shuts it down and trys to restart cause the brain didnt see it was running. Either do what they said or use virtual tach. I always use that for DEI stuff and never have an issue. It might start and die once or twice the first time but after that its bulletproof.

Well, you are correct again kreg. I tried Tach Mode with tach learn on D2D and it started up fine. I thought that I needed to be in virtual tach mode when using D2D and tach mode when using W2W. Apparently, you can use D2D on tach mode like you said. Also, some of the wiring is wrong so I have updated the wiring below for others who need help:

Immobilizer side ~~ Car side
Pink Ignition input ~~ White 7 pin 2 Yellow @ Ignition cylinder
BROWN / Red CanH ~~ White 7 pin 4 Pink @ Ignition cylinder
BROWN / Yellow CanL ~~ White 7 pin 3 Blue @ Ignition cylinder
ORANGE / Black Key Data ~~ White 7 pin 6 LtGreen @ Ignition cylinder
Blue/Yel shorted to WHITE/ Black on immobilizer
WHITE/ red unlock ~~ unlock (-) on driver door
White lock ~~ lock (-) on driver door
Blue/red ground ~~ GND
Purple / YELLOW ground ~~ GND

REMOTE STARTER
https://www.12voltdistributors.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Viper_4204V_Installation_Guide.pdf
starter side ~~ car side
H1/1 red ~~ connected to white wire, pin 1, @ 5-Pin plug ignition switch
H3/2 RED / white ~~ same as above
H3/5 red ~~ same as above
H3/8 RED / black ~~ same as above

H1/2 black ~~ connected to chassis ground
H3/1 pink ignition input ~~ blue wire, pin 2, @ 5-Pin plug
H3/3 orange accessory output ~~ orange wire, pin 4, @ 5-Pin plug ignition switch (to heater blower 1)
H3/4 violet starter output ~~ yellow wire, pin 5, @ 5-Pin plug ignition
H3/6 pink/white relay output ~~ red wire, pin 3, @ 5-Pin plug ignition switch (to heater blower 2)

Aux/2 Neutral safety ~~ gnd

Connect d2d link
Program Bypass
Set Viper to Flex Relay = ACC2 ( Menu 3, Item 8, Opt 2 )
Set Engine Check Mode = Tach ( Menu 3, Item 2, Opt 4)
Set Transmission = Auto ( Menu 3, Item 1, Opt 2)
Set Viper to Learn Tach signal

The only problem I have now is the door locks. The viper remote door lock and unlock does not work. I have confirmed by multimeter that I am tapped into the correct wires found in the driver's kick area. When I hit the door lock button on my honda remote, I get a 12V pulse down the blue wire. Respectively, I also get a 12V pulse in the gray wire when I press the door unlock button on the honda remote. I attached the bypass's wire to this blue wire but I don't think the bypass sends a signal to the blue wire. I can hear the relays on the viper. The bypass LED is solid green with the keys out of the ignition cylinder.

Good to hear that the install is mostly working.

Very interesting issue with the locks.   Have you tried testing the Civics' Blue and Gray lock wires by giving
them a brief chassis ground via a short, fused, jumper wire? This would verify / ensure correct wires and
operation.

Here is how it is supposed to work with the iDatalink bypass module. This info is from the iDatalink WEB site.

No Keyless Entry When Remote Started
The following details on DL-HA doorlocks operations will certainly help to pinpoint what part of the install may
create the problem.

When the vehicle Ignition is turned OFF:
The module will send the doorlocks codes through Data (using doorlock Data) at this point, we are sending the
OEM keyless codes on the network.
Using this method with Ignition OFF gives you the ability to control the driver priority unlock, unlock all, lock,
trunk and OEM alarm.

When the Ignition is ON:
The vehicle refuses the keyless Data (this is the way the vehicle is built). At this point (when we receive ignition
on the Pink wire) we change our doorlocks control to hardwire mode (the module doesn't send keyless data
anymore but is indeed sending (-) pulses through the White and WHITE/ Red wires of the module).
This way you still can control the doorlocks when the engine is remote started (no driver priority Unlock with
ignition ON since the doorlock wires we are tied to are the wires from the door lock switch inside the driver door
which doesn't operate priority unlock). We will also loose the keyless trunk release during the remote start cycle
since the trunk release command is sent though the keyless data codes which are refused by the vehicle when
the ignition is energized.

When you remote start, there's another factor which is important;
As soon the module will receive GWR, it will stop all doorlock activities and go in what we can call an "Immobilizer
Ready" mode (the module waits for the Immobilizer code). When the engine is started (once we received (+) start
signal on the BLACK/ White wire) we return to doorlocks operations at this point we determine if:
- There's 12 Volt on the module ignition input we will use the hardwire signals.
- There isn't any 12 Volt on the module ignition input we will use the keyless data codes.

Ensure the module is receiving the starter input as if it's not received the module will remain in "Immobilizer
Ready" mode and will not operate doorlocks until it receives the (+) Start signal on its input.

What that means :
The bypass module receives the door lock commands from the Viper via the DBI D2D harness. The bypass
module uses the vehicles ignition wire ( and the Vipers Starter Output signal ) to decide on whether to send
the lock commands to the vehicle on the Key Data wire or by means of the White or WHITE/ Red wires ( because
the Civic ignores the Key Data commands while it's running ).

In D2D communications, troubleshooting is very limited. ( That is one of the reasons I still prefer W2W. ) You
can hear the Vipers relays click ( probably the Parking Light relay ) with the locks commands but you can't
directly monitor the D2D output. ( You should be able to use a DMM to verify that the Viper is also sending a
lock output on it's Blue and Green wires.) You can't monitor the bypass modules Key Data wire to watch for
the locks command either. You should be able to use a DMM to verify that the bypass module is outputting
a locks signal while the engine is running on the White and WHITE/ Red wires.

If it were me, I would be wired up in W2W mode and I would simply delete the Vipers lock wire connections
( Green & Blue to ADS AL CA GREEN/ Black & Blue/Black ) and directly connect them to the Civics' Blue and Gray
wires. This would allow the Viper to directly control the door locks all the time ( even with engine running ).
You would lose the Vipers' priority unlock feature ( while engine is off ) and gain a faster command response
time.

There is something you could try if you don't want to switch over to W2W.
1.) Use the ADS USB cable to feature program the bypass module to NOT handle the door locks. Then hard wire
      the Viper lock wires to the Civic. This would allow the iDatalink to still handle the Trunk Release via D2D and
      Key Data but the Viper would directly control the door locks. ( You could simply leave the programming alone
      and make the direct Viper lock connections to the Civic but I don't think the Civic would like getting both the
      direct and Key Data lock commands at the same time.)

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Soldering is fun!

the1voltuser wrote:

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Ok, I found the 23 pin connector.

The gray wire is power unlock. However, there's conflicting information. According to https://diagrams.marktoonen.nl/index.aspx?MakeID=3&ModelID=20426, the blue wire is power lock.
According to https://www.xpresskit.com/DocumentDownload.aspx?documentid=7122&productid=461&firmwareid=2382, the pink wire is power lock (installation type 5). There is no documentation regarding pin number in idatalink's installation guide.

---

Can you describe where this is or provide a photo. I've been unable to find it. Thanks.

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Dangerously enthusiastic.

Kreg, your last post, one phrase. Snap-On incandescent bulb test light.
Will save lots of fuses.
The only point against virtual tach is the inability to use it with manual transmission.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

BTW if that Honda uses a "wired" instrument panel as distinct from a processor with about 5 wires, tach is probably a blue wire at an instrument panel plug.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.