idatalink ads al ca + ads tbsl ha

I am using both ADS-AL CA and ADS-TBSL HA modules in a 2012 Honda Civic with a Viper 5904v alarm/remote start.

My question is this:

Do both modules need to be connected to the ignition (pin 2) and key data (pin 6) wires at the 7 pin ignition switch?

Or do I only connect ignition and key data to the transponder bypass?

Thanks.


Note:
The hyperlink above will not work for ADS-AL(DL)-HA3 please see the address below

https://cdncontent2.idatalink.com/corporate/Content/Manuals/DL-HA3/DBI-AL(DL)-HA3-EN_20130909.pdf

The big question is why are you using both iDatalink bypass modules?  Unless I'm missing something here, you only need the ADS AL CA bypass module flashed with the DBI AL(DL)-HA3 *** firmware. 

The ADS TBSL HA bypass module will only do the transponder bypass function while the ADS AL CA module, flashed with the DBI AL(DL)-HA3 firmware will do the transponder bypass plus the other features ( locks, alarms, door, trunk, hood, brake, E-Brake status and supply a tach signal,   A lot more bang for the buck.

*** You could use the ADS AL CA flashed with the ADS AL(DL)-HA3 firmware and connect to the Viper in W2W mode.  The DBI flavor of firmware will allow a D2D or W2W connection.

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Soldering is fun!

I am using both modules because the all in one modules bypass was not working properly. It would start the car but then shut down a minute or so after. It would then display the red security light and a green key on the instrument panel.

The idatalink module would then flash indicating a gwr error. I checked my connections and even re-flashed the idatalink to be sure it was set up for a w2w install.

The idatalink instructions page 3, important notes I & II stated that if gwr could not be provided before remote start then a seperate module strictly for bypass must be installed.

I purchased then installed bypass module which worked at the time. I left for a hunting trip and came back home to an angry wife.. the all in one module had burned out.. so the alarm was not talking to the car but it would remote start due to the bypass module (which sets off the oem alarm. But I found the fix for this)

I did not have the ignition and key data wires hooked up to the all in one unit after the install of the bypass.. this may be why it burned out.. maybe?..

I purchased a replacement all in one idatalink (same model). I attempted to install it last night.. While attempting to program it for w2w I locked in the setting just fine but as soon as the key went into the ignition to complete the programming it took a crap and became unresponsive. I thought I burned it out too.. (they arent cheap). I dissconected all wires from the bypass and reset to to factory settings by holding the button while connecting the power plug and attempted the install again. Same results.

I went back to the drawing board before burning this unit out.. that is where the question of of whether or not I should connect the ignition and key data wires to both units.. Seeing as it will not let me program it, I am assuming those wires should be connected.

Are you going W2W with both bypass modules? 

I'm pretty sure that the Viper 5904 outputs the H2/9 (-) Status Output before it brings up the H3/1 Pink ignition wire so those warning shouldn't apply.

You are right, the iDatalink bypass modules are pricey and rightfully so.  They are well designed, thoroughly tested and come with clear and precise documentation.  I personally can only remember one OBF ( Out of Box Failure ) module in all the years I have been using them.

Think I would use only the ADS AL CA flashed with the DBI AL(DL)-HA3 firmware and try D2D. 

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Soldering is fun!

Yes, I am using w2w on both modules.

Do the modules need to be flashed specifically for either d2d or w2w? or can I just select either one when I install it? Both are currently flashed for w2w.

Since both modules are currently installed and I have already wasted the money on them, would there be any problem with using both at the same time?

If so, should I go ahead and connect the key data and ignition wires to both?

I am not currently using H2/9... What would I connect it to?

What do you have connected to the ADS bypass modules Blue/White GWR Input wire?  I'm really
confused now.  Perhaps you should list your W2W bypass module connections.

If the Vipers (-) Status Output wasn't working for the ADS AL CA what GWR signal are you using for the
ADS TBSL HA?

Long story on the modules with W2W, D2D and the two flavors of firmware ( ADS or DBI ).
ADS protocol supports D2D on Compustar, Ultra Start and other brands.
DBI protocol supports D2D on Directed, Audiovox  and some other brands.
If you are currently flashed with ADS AL(DL)-HA3, then you can only go W2W.
If you are currently flashed with DBI AL(DL)-HA3, you could go D2D with the Viper unit ( and W2W would
work OK, too ).

When you flash a module you can select the communications protocol ( ADS or DBI ) and also select
W2W, one-way D2D or two-way D2D.

I have never had the problem you have or needed to use two modules ( except on Subaru's ) on one
vehicle.  My main concern is how are you keeping the ADS AL CA from trying to do the transponder bypass
function so the ADS TBSL HA can do it?  Seems like a big fight there.  There might be a way in the Advanced
Programming when you flash the module, but I never looked.

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Soldering is fun!

I have Blue/White connected to H1/6. I just read ground when armed and hooked it up..

No, it goes to H2/9 ( or H2/3 if you aren't using it for anything else ( defrost ) ).

That is one of the Gotcha's on  Directed products.  They call the GWR signal    " (-) 200 mA Status Output ".

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Soldering is fun!

Ok. I really appreciate all of the help.

This was my first install. It has been a pain... You helped me out almost a year a go when I was originally installing it. I just kinda gave up on the remote start portion once the weather warmed up. It is cooling off again and I have to get it finished. I owe ya.

I'll have at it first thing in the morn.

I installed a viper 5904 in my '10 challenger R/T the other day for alarm only. It went in pretty easy. It seems to work so far...

Great news!  I would still try to use just the ADS AL CA module.  Start fresh with a Factory Reset, set the Install Mode ( two Blinks ) and then program to the Civic with the key.   It should do everything for you.  Save the ADS TBSL HA for another R/S install.  Once your friends and family see the Civic completed, they will keep you busy...   

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Soldering is fun!

I followed your directions and removed the ADS TBSL HA, connected Bl/WHT to H2/9 and connected the remaining necessary wires to the ADS AL CA module and... everything seems to work!

only one hiccup I am aware of...

When the remote start is activated the doors unlock and will not respond to the remote until the RS is deactivated when it locks itself again..

Any ideas?

I owe ya a truckload of beer btw

Just a guess, but some DIYers have issues with the iDatalink bypass module doing both a Lock/Arm and an Unlock/Disarm. With your install using the
ADS AL CA with ADS AL(DL)-HA3 firmware using W2W mode, you should follow the Type 2 wiring diagram very closely.

The Vipers Green Lock output wire should be the only wire connected to the ADS AL CA's GREEN/ Black Lock/Arm Input wire.
The Vipers Blue Unlock output wire should be the only wire connected to the ADS AL CA's Blue/Black Unlock Input wire.
The Vipers GREEN/ Black Disarm output wire should be the only wire connected to the ADS AL CA's Brown Disarm Input wire.

Back to your problem. If you are referring to the Honda FOB's no longer working while the engine is running, that is normal. If you are saying that the Viper
FOB's won't lock or unlock the doors while the engine is running then your issue is the ADS 3 Pin harness with the White, WHITE/ Red & WHITE/ Black wires
and their connections. These wires are used to control the locks while the engine is running through the ADS AL CA. Of course, why it is unlocking the
Civic before a remote start is unusual and as a first guess, sounds like a wiring error. Perhaps if you listed the actual Viper to ADS AL CA connections and
Viper to Civic connections, we might notice something.

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Soldering is fun!

My connections:

Viper 5904

H1/1 Red      to   White (+) 12v constant @ ignition Switch
H1/2 Black    to   Ground (unpainted body)
H1/3 Brown    to   Siren (+)
H1/4 Wht/Brwn to   NC
H1/5 White    to   Red park lamp wire @ car dash fuse box
H1/6 Orange   to   NC

Door lock, 3-pin Connector

1 Blue    to   Bl/Blk (-) Unlock input @ idata
2 Not Used
3 Green    to   Grn/Blk (-) Lock/arm

H2/1 NC
H2/2 NC
H2/3 NC
H2/4 Grn/Blk    to   Brown Disarm (-) input @ idata
H2/5 Rd/Wht     to   Rd/Wht Trunk release (-) input @ idata   
H2/6 Green      to   Ylw/Blk Door Status (-) input @ idata
H2/7 NC       
H2/8 NC       
H2/9 Dark Blue to   Bl/Wht GWR (-) input @ idata
H2/10 NC       
H2/11 NC       
H2/12 NC       
H2/13 NC       
H2/14 NC       
H2/15 NC       
H2/16 Brown     to   Gray/Rd Brake status (+) output @ idata
H2/17 Grey      to   Yellow Hood status (-) output @ idata
H2/18 NC       
H2/19 Blue      to   Ylw/Rd Trunk status (-) output @ idata
H2/20 NC       
H2/21 NC       
H2/22 NC       
H2/23 Prp/Wht   to   Prp/Wht Tach output @ idata
H2/24 NC       


    
H3/1 Pink       to   Blue Ignition 12v @ Ignition switch
H3/2 Rd/Wht     to   White (+) 12v constant @ Ignition Switch
H3/3 Orange     to   Orange accessory @ Ignition switch
H3/4 Violet     to   Yellow (car Side) Starter @ Ignition switch
H3/5 Green      to   Yellow (Key Side) Starter @ Ignition switch
H3/6 Red        to   White (+) 12v constant @ Ignition Switch
H3/7 Pnk/Wht    to   Red accessory #2 @ Ignition Switch
H3/8 Pnk/Blk    to   NC
H3/9 Rd/Blk     to   White (+) 12v constant @ Ignition Switch
H3/10 NC



Idatalink ADS-Al(DL)-HA3-EN

GWR (-) input - Bl/Wht to   H2/9
Ground - Black   to   H1/2
12v (+) - Red    to   H1/1
Lock/Arm (-) input Grn/Blk      to   Green @ viper 3 pin door lock connector
Unlock (-) input - Bl/Blk       to   Blue @ viper 3 pin door lock connector
Trunk (-) input - Rd/Wht       to   H2/5
Disarm (-) input - Brown        to   H2/4
Ground (-) input - Prp/Ylw      to   Ground (unpainted body)
Starter (+) input - Blk/Wht     to   H3/4
E brake (-) output - Green      to   NC
Tach output - Prp/Wht  to   H2/23

Wht/Blk to   Bl/Ylw (idata to idata)
Wht/Rd (-) Unlockto   Grey (-) @ Driver door kick harness
White (-) lock   to   Blue (-) @ Driver door kick harness

Ylw/Blk Door status (-) output to   H2/6
Ylw/Rd Trunk status (-) output to   H2/19
Yellow Hood status (-) output   to   H2/17

Brwn/Rd - CANH   to   Pin 4 @ Ignition
Brwn/Ylw - CANL to   Pin 3 @ Ignition
Org/Blk - Key data  to   Pin 6 @ Ignition
Pink - Igniton (+) Input        to   Pin 2 @ Ignition
Bl/Rd - Ground (-) Input        to   Ground (unpainted body)
Bl/Ylw - Door lock  to   Wht/Blk (idata to idata)
Gry/Rd - Brake status (+) input to   H2/16

I just noticed that the printout I have for my cars wiring and the Idata instruction sheet are different when it comes to the ignition wires..

(Installed using these directions) Idata:

Pin 2 Ignition (+)
Pin 3 CanL
Pin 4 CanH
Pin 6 Key data

@ ICU gray 7 pin connector (@ ignition)



The instructions I have for 2012 Honda Civic from Omega R&D Technologies (last updated 2/2012) says:

CanH - Pink   pin 4 @ ICU gray 7 pin connector (@ ignition)
CanL - Blue   pin 5 @ ICU gray 7 pin connector (@ ignition)
Immobilizer data - light green pin 2 @ ICU gray 7 pin connector (@ ignition)


Interesting...

Think that is due to the Pin 1 reference point each company has chosen.  iDatalink starts on the Left and Omega starts on the Right?

Wiring looks good.  There are a few things to check.

On the Viper 5904, the H2/2 BLACK/ WHITE (-) NEUTRAL SAFETY INPUT should be connected to Chassis Ground
if you have an automatic transmission.  If you have a manual transmission, the iDatalink E-BRAKE STATUS (-) OUTPUT
GREEN wire should be connected to H2/2.

Also, you should check and verify that your Civic has the Factory Hood Pin installed.  The easy way is to get the
engine running under a Viper remote start and then pop the hood.  The engine will shut off if you have the Factory
Hood pin ( the ADS AL CA gets this info on the CAN bus and sends it on to the Viper H2/17 Grey via it's Yellow Hood
status (-) output wire).

Still not exactly sure of your problem and symptoms.  The Honda FOB's won't work during a remote start.  The Vipers FOB's should.

Does your Civic have the Factory Alarm?

You could try un-grounding the ADS AL CA's Purple / YELLOW wire.

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Soldering is fun!