to diy or not to diy alarm

Guys,

I have a pretty good understanding of electronics and automobiles and was wondering if it is worth the aggravation to try and do an install on a car alarm these days? I know the answer to that question pretty much relies on the ability of the person asking, but I dread the idea of paying a 20yr old kid at Best Buy $200 to do something half assed on my vehicle.

I've gathered the tech sheets for my 2008 Dodge Ram 1500 Quad Cab from here and also have a factory Dodge Manual. I also understand that I will need a interface (XK03, DBALL?) to install as well. If I understand this correctly and looking at the instructions for the DK03, it appears that the unit simplifies the install quite a bit. Am I correct in saying that?

Also, looking at the tech sheet for the Dodge Ram for instance on the Second Starter, it shows the Polarity to be -180ohms. Is it as simple as soldering a 180ohm resistor inline between connections to get the correct polarity?

What are your guys professional opinion about this? Like I said.. hate to take it to a shop and they call me back in two hours to say it's finished. If that's the case.. I know I could do it in about 6-8 hours and have all the connections soldered and ran properly. Hell.. I don't care if it takes me two days. I would rather do it myself and gain the knowledge.

Thanks.

You could look at a video of a bench setup I did a few days ago and see if it is something you would like to tackle.

https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp~TID~135651

Kreg357 always has great advice as in this post:

https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp~TID~135648~get~last#686574

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smokeman1 wrote:

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You could look at a video of a bench setup I did a few days ago and see if it is something you would like to tackle.

https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp~TID~135651

Kreg357 always has great advice as in this post:

https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp~TID~135648~get~last#686574

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EXACTLY what I was looking for. I will check it out later on and see what questions are left if you don't mind. Thanks and Happy New Year!!

Depends on your confidence level and ability.

For example: I just installed a less common A/AS in my 98 GMC. All it has is passlock to deal with. A 2008 dodge has a bit more.

Before I go further, let me give a bit of perspective on my experience: I'm not exactly a beginner. Been in the automotive and aerospace industries for about 30+ years. I have done alarm installs before, but not as a sole job.

I am a little older (49) and broken up from my occupation so I can only stand being crunched up in the foot wells upside-down for so much time.

It took me a couple days of easy working at it to get it all done to where I want it.

I am like you though: I can't stand the thought of some 18 YO Scotch-locking and vinyl taping my vehicle wiring. I prefer to do these things myself so they are done properly (IE: solder, heat shrink, etc), even if it sucks up a couple of my days.

It is a lot of frigging around and you are ultimately the one who will have to decide if you're good (or capable) enough, but I'd say give it a go if you can do without your vehicle for a couple days (if it doesn't go as planned) and have the ability to program any bypass modules you may require.

Have a Digital Multimeter at the ready too.....:)

gr8twhite wrote:

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Depends on your confidence level and ability.

For example: I just installed a less common A/AS in my 98 GMC. All it has is passlock to deal with. A 2008 dodge has a bit more.

Before I go further, let me give a bit of perspective on my experience: I'm not exactly a beginner. Been in the automotive and aerospace industries for about 30+ years. I have done alarm installs before, but not as a sole job.

I am a little older (49) and broken up from my occupation so I can only stand being crunched up in the foot wells upside-down for so much time.

It took me a couple days of easy working at it to get it all done to where I want it.

I am like you though: I can't stand the thought of some 18 YO Scotch-locking and vinyl taping my vehicle wiring. I prefer to do these things myself so they are done properly (IE: solder, heat shrink, etc), even if it sucks up a couple of my days.

It is a lot of frigging around and you are ultimately the one who will have to decide if you're good (or capable) enough, but I'd say give it a go if you can do without your vehicle for a couple days (if it doesn't go as planned) and have the ability to program any bypass modules you may require.

Have a Digital Multimeter at the ready too.....:)

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I appreciate it. I still have a couple years at the young age of 39 crunched underneath dashboards before I make my kids do this crap! lol...

I have still been doing some research and watched this video above, but really didn't answer my questions. I get the whole solder the appropriate resistors in line based on the tech sheets, but I was also wondering about these bypass modules. If you take a look at the instructions foundhere, it appears to simplify the install. Is that the case? I guess my question is, what is the sole purpose of that unit?

I've been soldering points on motherboards that are smaller than frog hairs since I was 18. I have the Dodge Manual and the tech sheets from this forum. I am pretty confident I have the "ability" to do the job.. I just want to make sure that I have all the research or proper approach to this before I dive into it. As far as tools go... believe me there is no issue there! ;)

Keep in mind I'm no "pro" installer, but when I looked in to it on my 2004 300m the "xpress kit" was required to bypass the OEM security system.

Likely similar to the resistor "trick" I did with my older gm, but probably a bit more involved design.

Someone with more experience will have to chime in on that one...

Your expectation that a professional installer will "Scotchlock and vinyl tape" your vehicle up is a little misguided. Remember YOU are the customer - if you are against scotchlocks (and you should be) this should be brought up BEFORE paying the shop. If you want the connections made a certain way discuss your desires with the shop and don't agree to allow them to do the work unless they are willing to do what YOU want to YOUR vehicle. Finally, as the customer, you have the right to inspect the installation BEFORE the vehicle is put back together. I was a professional installer (yes, when I was 20 or so) for several years while I was in college and I NEVER had a customer ask to inspect my work - that always surprised me. Also, as being a former 20 year old installer I can tell you there are some amazing 20 year old installers out there but there are also some out there that you don't want touching your vehicle.

At the end of the day, it depends on your personal preference. If you can use a volt meter and make solid connections then you should be able to complete the installation. The final question is it worth it to you? If you pay a shop there are benefits - they are insured for damage and will offer you a lifetime warranty on the installation. If you damage your vehicle during the installation you'll kick yourself for not taking it to a shop as you pay out of pocket to repair. If you finish the installation and it works for the first year or two but then has problems it is YOUR installation and most likely no shop will have any interest in working on it. One other thing to consider is do you want to do it (ie do you think it would be fun)? If you don't think this type of work is fun then I would take it to a shop you trust.

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Kevin Pierson

KPierson wrote:

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Your expectation that a professional installer will "Scotchlock and vinyl tape" your vehicle up is a little misguided...

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Not at all. That's what you get at some places because that's what they know or what gets it done the fastest. I wouldn't call them "professionals" either. They're the "Best Buy" places most people seem to end up at. I would assume primarily for cost reasons.

Personally, I wouldn't go to such places.

Not knocking young guys, some are good.

Some not-so-much....same with some "old guys"....

You missed my point. As a paying customer you have the ability to set the parameters of the installation. It may cost you a bit more, but if you don't want scotchlocks used they should not use them.

If you go in and drop the vehicle off and don't say a single word about how you want it done you leave it up to the installer to decide if scotchlocks are acceptable.

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Kevin Pierson

KPierson wrote:

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You missed my point...

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No sir, I didn't.

Hence the " I wouldn't go to such places".

If I have to specify such things like "no scotchlocks" then they are not doing the type of quality work I want done anyways.

I would simply take my business elsewhere.

(Insert smiley face here to indicate no hard feelings intended)

KPierson and gr8white;

Again, thank you for the feedback and some good points made here. Not to spend too much time on a dead horse but wanted to give you an example of when I purchased a Clarion Head Unit from a "Professional" Car Audio/Video Specialties place that dealt with nothing other than car audio about 15 years ago. At the time it was installed in my 1996 Honda Accord. About a year later, I decided to add an amplifier of my own to find out the deck was not only installed using household electrical wire nuts, but was also held in place with industrial strength Velcro. True story.

But to your point. At the end of the day, as a consumer I have the right to request method of installation and also final inspection. You also bring up a good point about warranty issues and so forth. To Gr8white's point, I shouldn't have had to tell that shop not to use wire nuts and Velcro in my car. Lesson learned and never had anything else installed in any of my vehicles since then. Even tint.

Now with all that being said, I would like to jump back on topic about the couple of questions I had and was wondering if the two of you who have been seasoned on these type of installs can answer a couple simple questions for me?

In the thumbnail below. I want to confirm that the areas circled in red are as simple as finding a resistor (or a combination of resistors) that matches the resistance circled and solder them inline between the connections. Yes or no?



In this thumbnail below, notice the circles areas again. This is from the manual of the Viper 5704. What are they suggesting in the circled areas? For example (-)200ma?;



Finally, talking about the bypass modules. I understand that these are needed to bypass the factory security systems. But it also 'appears' to me that this simplifies the installation regarding the door unlock/lock functions. I am not biased towards this module, but in the thumbnail below for example it doesn't show more than a dozen connections to be made.



In closing, if I am confident in my ability to make the connections suggested in the tech sheet from Direct Wire working in correlation with the factory Dodge Manual and I wanted to pursue this install myself in the future. In addition to the answering of the questions above, what other technical advice can you give TOWARDS the installation? For example; bad choice of module, bad choice of alarm, you will also need a flux capacitor etc. etc.

Again... thanks for all the help so far and sorry for the long post.

For the first attachment yes you will need the specified resistor soldered inline with a (-) output from the brain. Whenever I use resistors I make sure I add some support to the leads of the resistors as they are generally somewhat fragile. What I generally do is solder the resistor inline and then before I tape over it I lay a piece of wire next to it. The wire offers support to the resistor legs.

For the second attachment the manual is telling you what type of output / input each wire is. The (-) 200mA listing for outputs basically is telling you that it is a low current output and for any significant power a relay must be used. The (+) door trigger is intended for vehicles with door pins that switch to 12vdc instead of ground (somewhat rare but they do exist). Most installations use either the (-) or the (+) but very rarely use both (sometimes the other one is used as an AUX trigger for the alarm).

If you are going to use a data module make sure it is programmed for your vehicle. If you are buying online double check that they are willing to program it for your vehicle. If the module shows up without the correct firmware on it you'll be dead in the water.



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Kevin Pierson

KPierson wrote:

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For the first attachment yes you will need the specified resistor soldered inline with a (-) output from the brain. Whenever I use resistors I make sure I add some support to the leads of the resistors as they are generally somewhat fragile. What I generally do is solder the resistor inline and then before I tape over it I lay a piece of wire next to it. The wire offers support to the resistor legs.

For the second attachment the manual is telling you what type of output / input each wire is. The (-) 200mA listing for outputs basically is telling you that it is a low current output and for any significant power a relay must be used. The (+) door trigger is intended for vehicles with door pins that switch to 12vdc instead of ground (somewhat rare but they do exist). Most installations use either the (-) or the (+) but very rarely use both (sometimes the other one is used as an AUX trigger for the alarm).

If you are going to use a data module make sure it is programmed for your vehicle. If you are buying online double check that they are willing to program it for your vehicle. If the module shows up without the correct firmware on it you'll be dead in the water.

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Thank you sir for all the info. I do appreciate it. Could you elaborate a little more on this:

"The (-) 200mA listing for outputs basically is telling you that it is a low current output and for any significant power a relay must be used."

For instance, let's use this for example out of the installation manual:

'(-) 200mA HORN HONK OUTPUT'

Essentially, what would you end up doing with this BROWN / Black wire?

Thanks again...

You could hook that up to the horn honk wire in the vehicle. Generally, though, a siren is used. If the data sheet for your vehicle shows that the horn wire is a (-) trigger then most likely you can hook the horn output directly to the wire (I would verify with a current meter first). If the horn wire is shown as being positive you would need a relay.

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Kevin Pierson

KPierson wrote:

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You could hook that up to the horn honk wire in the vehicle. Generally, though, a siren is used. If the data sheet for your vehicle shows that the horn wire is a (-) trigger then most likely you can hook the horn output directly to the wire (I would verify with a current meter first). If the horn wire is shown as being positive you would need a relay.

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Gotchya, makes perfect sense. So being that the horn signal shows a (-) polarity on the tech sheet from DirectWire, and no resistance value it can hook up directly to the Viper wire but most will not use that connection and use the siren correct?

Looking at the Viper 5704, and looking to install this into a 2008 Dodge Ram 1500 Automatic Transmission. What are thoughts about the instructions below? I have posted the NOT USED notes where I believe I would not need any connections. Do you agree?