used car with remote start

My friend purchased a used 2007 Nissan Armada about a month ago and yesterday while I was looking it over, I determined it had an aftermarket remote starter system installed in it, which he was unaware of. It doesn't have any special key fob remote, just the factory Nissan style key fob. We tried various combination of button pushes, but were unsuccessful in starting the SUV. I did dig around and was able to find the components of the system, which are as follows:

DB-All Module
Directed 4x03 Module
HX Plus Antenna
The Install Bay 12V Relay

Here's what I do know about the system:

The Armada starts, runs, and drives fine.
The factory key fob remote will lock/unlock the doors fine and the panic button work.
No combination of buttons on the key fob will start the SUV.
No valet switch is installed.
No override switch found.
The LED doesn't blink or illuminate on the DB-All module at any point.
The LED doesn't blink or illuminate on the Directed 4x03 module at any point

I've checked the three fuses in the setup of the above devices and all of the normal mini fuses in the dash panel and under the hood and they all checkout good. My multi-meter indicates 12V on the harness that has two green fuses, but 0V on the harness with the single red fuse.

Does anyone have any advice why neither of these devices seem to be getting any power? I've never installed one of the systems before, but short of checking every connection for a solid connection, I'm not sure where to start. Could the two modules be faulty? Is a special remote necessary?

Thanks for any help or advice with this issue!

Sounds to me Iike you need a remote

Do you think it's that simple? Shouldn't the LED's on one of the module's blink or something when you use the factory key fob or even turn the ignition to ACC, ON, or even start it?

If you still think all I need is a remote, do you know which one I need?

Thanks!

A lot of times the used car dealer will not mention an aftermarket R/S system.  They will just throw away the remotes.  They don't want the liability of an unknown, non-factory system.

Depending on how the installer flashed / programmed and wired up the DB-ALL bypass module and if the R/S is a 4103 model, you could try a 4 button remote.

It's worth the $15 investment.  Do an EBay search on the remotes FCC ID number :  EZSDEI474S       There are many styles of this remote that DEI made over the years.  Remote pairing is pretty simple and described in the Avital 4103 Install Guide available in the Downloads Section.  Check to see if the Valet/Programming button is connected to the R/S unit ( sometimes installers don't leave it behind after the install is completed ).

-------------
Soldering is fun!

You could also try tapping the WHITE/ blue wire (its in between the yellow and orange wires) coming off the 4103 module to ground and see if the truck starts up

Could be 1,2 or 3 taps depending on how it was set up

-------------
If i Can't Install it    I Don't need it   Joe

At this point I plan on trying what chev104275 suggested first about tapping the WHITE/ blue wire in the main harness to ground. If the SUV starts up, then I'm assuming everything else is working fine and all I'll need to do is order a new remote and valet switch to program the new remote. I'm hoping to do this Thursday afternoon, but if not it will be June 15th before I get a chance to try it again. Either way, I'll post back how this turns out and any issues along the way.

Thanks again everyone for all the help so far!

I finally got the opportunity to try out what chev104275 suggested, (tapping the WHITE/ blue wire to ground), and the SUV cranked, but never started. I think the crank time is set to short and needs adjusted after reading the manual, but since I don't have any remotes or the valet switch I wasn't able to adjust it. Does this seem reasonable?

Also, since he's wanting two remotes and needs the valet switch, were looking at going ahead and buying a complete kit for $43.00 on Amazon. The question I have is since we don't know the exact model # of his, if we buy say a Avital 4103LX and his is a Directed Electronics 4103 or 4103L, will the remotes still work fine or will we have to replace the 4103 unit also?

The item were looking at on eBay is:

Avital 4103LX Remote Start System with Two 4-Button Remote

Thanks again for everyone's help with this issue!

All the 4103's are the same.

-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Update - I finally got a chance to dig into this again today, since my friend ordered and received the proper parts.

After programming the remotes, the SUV cranked, but never started. I tried reprogramming the cranking time on the 4103 to a longer interval, but that didn't do anything at all. I then looked at the diagnostic code per the manual and it indicated "Low or No RPM". Then, by pure accident, I left the key in the ignition and pressed the remote start button and the SUV started right up.

What I'm thinking now is that the DB-All has lost its programming...especially since the door lock/unlock doesn't work properly either. Does this seem accurate? If so, all I need to do is buy the XKLOADER2 and get the proper firmware from the XpressKit website and install it to the DB-All...correct?

Thanks for any feedback with this issue!

Yes, exactly that initially.
Does the LED on the DB-ALL flash green when you turn on the ignition?

-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

If you re-flash the DB-ALL with the latest firmware for your vehicle using the XKLoader2 cable, double check all the module wiring.  It can change with newer firmware.  Down load the corresponding install guide and verify each wire connection.

-------------
Soldering is fun!

The DB-All LED doesn't do anything when I push any of the remote buttons, turn the key, or crank the SUV. The only time I've seen the LED turn on is when I unplugged the 4-pin power connector from the DB-All. It turns Green, then goes off after three seconds. Also pressing the programming button makes it turn Amber, Red, and Green in different patterns.

In case it matters...initially, someone had zipped tied the blue harness connector on the DB-All, because it wasn't latching properly. If I unplugged the 4-pin power connector from the DB-All, then plugged it back in, the Green LED would turn green and stay on forever until I turned the key on. After I made the blue harness connector seat properly, the green light would go off after three seconds.

I'll definitely pay attention to the wiring changes with the newer firmware also.

Thanks everyone for your help with this!

Easiest thing would be to reset and try to reprogram the DB-All. Based on the outcome would determine next course of action which could be tracing/testing wires.

I'm thinking you need to put the 4103 in D2D mode.

See there are two ways to connect the DB-all to the 4103. Wire to wire or through D2D(A data connection). The 4103 was having a problem with the port where the DB-All's D2D plug would plug into to. That port on the 4103 is a dual function port. One function is to be used for D2D, the other is used for DEI's Programmer called a Bitwriter. It comes default out of the box to be used with the Bitwriter. You have to ground the WHITE/ blue wire while powering up the 4103 to change between the 2 functions. The directions will show you how to do this.

You can easily see if your DB-All is connected Wire to Wire or D2D by looking to see if you have a 4 pin red connector going from the DB-All to the 4103. If you do, switching the 4103's Data port function over to D2D should solve your problem as long as the DB-all is programmed to the car.

It seems to me that when you go to remote start it and the car is cranking and cranking but not starting, the car won't start because it hasn't seen a valid transponder signal and thinks its being stolen. The DB-all after being programmed to the car provides that signal. Thats why when you try to start it with the key sitting in the key cylinder it starts and runs. The car is seeing the transponder signal from the key at that point not from the DB-all.

The fact that the DB-all has no light going on when you activate the remote starter is that the DB-all is not getting the signal from the 4103 to send that transponder code. Thats what makes be think your DB-ALL is hooked up D2D and that the 4103's Data Port's function has not been changed to D2D.

flobee4 wrote:

---

I'm thinking you need to put the 4103 in D2D mode.

---

From the Avital 4103 Installation Guide:

"The 4-pin red port is for interfacing with an XK module through D2D, or
you can use it for programming with the Bitwriter®.
If the XK module is unplugged so the port can be used for Bitwriter®
programming, you must unplug the heavy gauge 6 pin remote start
harness before reconnecting the xk module back in. Once the xk module
has been plugged in, reconnect the heavy gauge 6pin remote start
harness and proceed to reprogram the xk module."

flobee4, the red 4-pin connector harness is coming out of the DB-All and going to the 4103, so it's wired for D2D as you mentioned. I will try what you suggested and switch modes as soon as I get a chance and update everyone on my progress.

Thanks for the replies and advice everyone!

catback, thats from the older 4103 instruction manual. Thats when it used to switch between the 2 functions automatically. The "automatic" function was what they were having problems with, so they made it an installer option that you need to manually switch between.

The new 4103 had a quick reference page for installation instructions, not an installation book. The quick reference guide has the instructions for manually switching the functions. It definitely has to do with unplugging power, grounding the WHITE/ blue wire, and then plugging the power back in. You continue to hold the WHITE/ blue to ground while looking at the 4103's Red LED. The way it flashes tells you whether it is in D2D mode or ESP(Bitwriter)mode. I never use D2D, so I cannot tell you anymore than that. But I assure you, it will go something like that, as well as be in the quick reference quide.

flobee4 wrote:

---

catback, thats from the older 4103 instruction manual. Thats when it used to switch between the 2 functions automatically. The "automatic" function was what they were having problems with, so they made it an installer option that you need to manually switch between.

The new 4103 had a quick reference page for installation instructions, not an installation book. The quick reference guide has the instructions for manually switching the functions. It definitely has to do with unplugging power, grounding the WHITE/ blue wire, and then plugging the power back in. You continue to hold the WHITE/ blue to ground while looking at the 4103's Red LED. The way it flashes tells you whether it is in D2D mode or ESP(Bitwriter)mode. I never use D2D, so I cannot tell you anymore than that. But I assure you, it will go something like that, as well as be in the quick reference quide.

---

Quite true but you have to remember and factor in this is a used car with an old pre-installed 4103 of unknown vintage. A full dei install guide was made in 2012 with the noted change in setting D2D mode, the 2008 install guide however still has the old method. Precisely when the change took effect I don't know but odds are the 4103 in this car doesn't go by the new method.

catback is correct in if its an older unit. But previously the original poster said he just ordered a complete new 4103. Now there are chances that the person sent him older stock, but it has been like this for 2-3 years now. The way he will know if he has a unit that needs to be manually switched over to D2D is as stated above.

Quick reference guide in box = manually switched

Full instruction guide in box = Automatically switched(High failure rate for D2D usage) there is a work around to make that more stable if you have an older unit, which I doubt. If you do, you just de-pin your power and ground wires from the red 4 pin plug that goes to the older 4103, and get power and ground elsewhere.

flobee4 wrote:

---

catback is correct in if its an older unit. .......
Full instruction guide in box = Automatically switched(High failure rate for D2D usage) there is a work around to make that more stable if you have an older unit, which I doubt.

---

Fair enough I glanced over the fact they bought an entire system but if my comprehension of english is still right they only did so for the two remotes and program/valet switch for a deal of $43 (cheaper than buying two remotes and a switch alone). That doesn't mean they installed the new system. It'd be helpful if OP's would be detailed and concise in what they have and haven't done.

If flobee4's train of logic is right, I don't see much issue follow the instructions for both the new 4103 and the dball. This essentially becomes a new install, wires are run but you (the installer) should know where and how they connect in YOUR system. Sounds like the hard way to go about it but when your unable to diagnose on the spot and have to pose questions to others it takes ALOT more time with all the unknowns and questions you don't instantly know the answers to.

So yeah I'm not sure of exactly where we stand so I'll just answer questions direct. The light on the dball should flash whenever you lock, unlock, open the trunk, or remote start the vehicle via 4103's remote if the dball is programmed and communicating with the nissan and the 4103. If it's not then you have a communication/programming issue. Seek flobee's post and the installation manuals for the given devices.

catback...you are correct in your comprehension of the issue. The original 4103 is still installed in the SUV. I have no clue how old the original 4103 is, but I do know the new 4103 came with the quick reference guide. We purchased the new kit solely for the two remotes and switch alone. If the new 4103 would be a easier and better option, please advise. Just be aware that we currently don't have any programming devices at all, but are willing to buy them if needed.

I'm sure someone could decipher the date codes on the devices, but the only sticker on the DEI box has "12F" printed on it.

I don't have a complete picture of the DB-All sticker, but the following is printed on it Lot: 1100, SW: 3.03, and HW: 3.55. There is a Dt.: 12...but the rest is covered up

Thanks again everyone!

Have you browsed the dball install guide for this vehicle yet? It can be found at xpresskit.com if you haven't, it lays out wiring, connections, programming, and troubleshooting for the dball as applied to this vehicle. As mentioned prior with the latest firmware and install guide wiring could be different but odds of drastic change are low. It wouldn't hurt to check the wires against the guide, see what you got and don't have. Even check in to where it connects in the vehicle to make sure things look right.

Unless you decide to flash new firmware into the dball you have everything you need to program both the 4103 and the dball.

As flobee4 said you have to make sure to put the D2D port into D2D mode whether with the old method or the new method (whichever works) otherwise the 4103 and dball won't talk to each other over D2D (assuming that's how they are wired to each other).

Google is your friend for "detailed" install guides for the 4103 old and new.

Yes, I have downloaded and looked at the DB-All guide and the 4103 manuals (Owner's Manual and Install Manual). Honestly though, I really didn't get it at first about what should and shouldn't be connected and which box did what exactly. It appears that the 4103 can do some of the same things that the DB-All can do...like control the door locks. On top of all of that, I was confused as to why half of the wires on the 4103 were not connected to anything. Then the DB-All LED's didn't do anything unless you disconnected the power.   

Regardless, I'm starting to understand more about it with everyone's help. I think I mentioned it earlier, this is the first time I've ever dealt with a remote start. Not only that, I'm doing it on someone else's car, that I don't have access to but every couple of weeks. Kind of stinks that I have this list of things to check or try, but I can't in a timely fashion.

I do appreciate everyone's help, advice, and patience, because I intend to get this thing functional.

Does it snow in winter there? I'd say that would be the time to have it working by.

Good your equipped with the manuals so you can refer to them and/or stare at them and assimilate them.

Odds are decent that everything is wired up appropriately and flobee4 is on track with the D2D port on the 4103 just needing to be put in D2D mode. Again assuming the dball is wired to the 4103 via D2D which you can tell by utilizing the manuals.

Anyway, good times doing diagnostic work a bit at a time every couple weeks. It'd drive some puzzle solvers mad.

Good news everyone...The remote start is now working. I cant say for certain if the 4103 was in D2D or BitWriter mode originally, but I know it's in D2D mode now per the install manual. Awesome!

Oddly enough, it still wouldn't start the SUV, but the DB-All was showing a solid red LED, which after consulting the install guide, indicated it was ready for programming. After programming it as stated, two presses of the start button and the SUV cranked right up and started running without the key in the ignition.

The only thing left to figure out is how to make the lock/unlock buttons work. When I press the lock or unlock button, nothing happens, except the LED on the DB-All flashes green one or twice. The manual states it should flash orange. I'm thinking this might be where we have to update the firmware, because after looking at the update history for the "NISS1HT" DB-All I found the following changes listed with the v3.07 being the most interesting:

v3.10 - updated cores
v3.09 - fixed brake sensing
v3.08 - fixed brake sensing
v3.07 fixed OEM lock/unlock sense
v3.04 fixed door sense
v3.03 updated to new core, new bypass

Per the label on the DB-All that is installed in the SUV, it has v3.03 firmware, which would mean that the lock/unlock might not work properly. I know the installer could've updated it at some point, but I have no way to tell at the moment.

I tried verifying feature 6 (Door Lock Control on Data) on the DB-All, but I never could get to feature 6. I could only change to feature 1, 2, and 3 no matter how many times I pushed the programming button as indicated in the "Feature Programming" section. I cant seem to find the install manual for the older firmware versions, could these features have been added in the newer firmwares, hence the reason I only seem to have features 1, 2, and 3?

Am I on the right track this time? Is there something else I need to check?

Thanks again for everyones great advice and help!

I'd say your on the right track. It's feasible that the system was never setup to control the locks when it was originally installed.

Not so good news this time. Nothing works now after flashing the firmware from v3.03 to v3.11. I checked the option settings before I started and every option was checked and the door locks were set to the correct mode...Type 2. After flashing to the newest v3.11 firmware, the door locks still don't work and now I cant get the DB-All to reprogram to the key to allow the remote start to work. I tried both a "Module Reset" and a "Hard Reset" without any luck.

I know someone mentioned earlier to check the wire connections if I decided to flash, but I couldn't imagine at that time why flashing the firmware would change wiring connections. It seems totally unnecessary and backwards thinking if you ask me.

Does anyone know how to flash back to the original version of 3.03?

Does anyone have access to the original DB-All install guide for the v3.03 firmware so that I have something to compare the wiring connections to?

The error light code sequence I'm getting is x1 red flash & x1 Orange flash, which indicates "Yellow/Black did not detect the expected signal. Refer to the wiring diagram to make the right connections." After looking to see if this wire was connected, I found it was not. Upon further inspection, it appears the wire color coming out of the red wiring harness on the DB-All doesn't match up with the DB-All guide I downloaded. The newest guide shows the "Yellow/Black" wire is in pin 10. On our wire harness, it's in pin 8 and the "ORANGE / Black" is in pin 10. I even looked at the NATS ignition connector switch as indicated in the manual and found no extra add-on wires connected to it.

Between the Blue and Red wiring harness on the DB-All, the only wires I have connected are as follows:

Tan
Tan/Black
Yellow/Red
ORANGE / Red

Per the install guide, I should have 9 wire connected to something. Do you think the original installer never completed the install? Could this be why the door locks don't work?

Thanks!

The reason I mentioned / warned about possible wiring changes with firmware updates is because I have seen that
happen occasionally with iDatalink bypass modules.  I do not use DB-ALL series modules, so I am not familiar with
their procedures to use older versions of firmware.  It is possible with iDatalink products so it might be possible with
DB-ALL's, too.  Unfortunately you might have to be a registered dealer to get information and access.

You could go by the new Install Guide for the V3.11 firmware and just make all the connections/changes exactly as listed. 
This might not be a lot of re-wiring or too difficult if the DB-ALL's connectors haven't been de-pinned.  There might have
been good reasons and improvements for the firmware and wiring changes.

-------------
Soldering is fun!