Printer Friendly Forum Posts - dei remote start won’t function 90 accord

Can some please help me troubleshoot this problem? I'm a DIYer, not a pro.

I have a 1990 Honda Accord EX, manual transmission. I self installed a Clifford Responder LE Model 3.3x. Added to the standard alarm a back-up battery, proximity sensor, glass break sensor and tilt sensor. All the add-ons are DEI and all work fine.

The Valet take-over function works as it should. With the engine running I can put the car in manual transmission mode, exit, arm and lock the car, unlock and reenter. I can also shut the vehicle down using the remote control.

The Remote start mode does not work. I put the running vehicle in manual transmission mode, activate the remote start and exit. The car shuts down properly when I arm via the remote.

When next trying to start the vehicle using the remote the parking lights flash and my driver’s side automatic seat belt engages (this is a feature of this particular model and year. When the driver turns the key to ignition, the driver’s seat belt automatically engages.). The seat belt then dis-engages and the light flash / seat belt sequence repeats 2 more times. After the third and final sequence the start-up procedure terminates with the parking lights flashing five times.

My remote starting diagnostics chart says 5 flashes indicate the brake wire is active.

Anyone have any tips on how to correct this error?

Have you changed the brake lights to LED's recently?

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Hmm, that brake-light diagnostic code is interesting, because it doesn't make sense in this case.

Generally, a remote starter will make three attempts to start the car if it doesn't see the engine starting----suppose the car were out of gas, for example. There would be three start attempts.

On the other hand, if the unit sees a safety input, such as the brake coming on or the hood being opened, it should shut down right away and never try again, for safety reasons.

So, if your system is making three attempts, it's not going to be brake, I don't think.

You could temporarily disconnect the brake wire as a troubleshooting tool.

Have you tried sitting in the car with your foot on the clutch, and engaging the remote starter then? That would be a quick way to test if you have your clutch-switch wiring right or not.

It might also be interesting to temporarily program the system for automatic-transmission mode and see if that changes anything.

NOTE: I'm sure you know this, but during these troubleshooting steps you're going to be temporarily eliminating some of the manual-transmission safety features. I would recommend ALWAYS making your tests while sitting fully normally in the driver's seat, ready to apply brakes, clutch, shift to neutral in the event the car starts when it shouldn't.

Thanks Chris I didn't think of that, just that I've seen LED lighting conversions that need a blocking diode also some BMWs send a signal back through the brake lights on start, need an aux timed 10 seconds linked to remote start triggering a relay to open that circuit, i.e. isolate it from the brake feed back to the R/S.
I agree with first disconnecting that brake feed, also the safety precautions.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

No LED conversion. Brake lights are stock.
I'll try the "foot on clutch" test.

I don't understand how to disconnect the brake wire as a test. Just disconnect the wire that taps into the brake lights so it would never send a signal to the alarm brain?

Thanks for the input!

Yes.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Probably posting when not needed as usual, but maybe it will help. I always leave the unit in automatic mode with the ebrake applied to the BLACK/ white. This tells me everything else is good to go or not and is MUCH easier to pin point issues. I always make sure it is in neutral with the ebrake applied my hand over the brake pedal ready to push it to the floor if the car so much as moves, and I take care that if the car did move that I can get out of the way. Treat it like it WILL take off and over prep your work area and the car.

Side note a co-worker did not believe his old f150 manual would take off by starting in gear. This was way before our shop had the proper remote starts and he wanted one hacked in. I told him to sit in the driver seat with his foot on the clutch and hand ready to turn the key off, and I went under the hood and bypassed the NSS. He fired it off in 1st gear and went about 150ft before figuring out how to stop. Needless to say that was the end of his desire for a non manual remote start. posted_image

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To master and control electricity is perfection. *evil laugh*

RJ one comment, LIKE!!

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Ok, just gave it "the clutch test."

Shut the car down using the manual transmission shutdown procedure but stayed in the car.
Held the clutch down, then activated Remote Start. Remote Start worked perfectly. Tested several times and holding the clutch in was the key to proper function.

So....do I more likely have an error in the Neutral Safety Switch Input or the Brake Shutdown Input?

The diagnostic code indicates Brake Light but everything functions when the clutch is in.

And is the solution just to make sure the wiring for that part of the circuit is secure with good tight soldier joints and no shorts or is there anything else I can do?

You need to by pass the clutch.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Sorta sounds like your starter signal (or ignition) is back feeding into the brake wire when the clutch is not being pressed. Would not shock me on a honda.

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To master and control electricity is perfection. *evil laugh*

Ok, by "bypass the clutch" does that mean check that the Neutral Safety Switch Input is correct or somehow disable it?

How can I test for, and stop the ignition from feeding back into the brake light?

Missing the point there. How are you bypassing the clutch itself. The issue I describe is a result of improper clutch operation.

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To master and control electricity is perfection. *evil laugh*

Read my reply red isolating the brake wire.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Ok howie, I read this:
“need an aux timed 10 seconds linked to remote start triggering a relay to open that circuit, i.e. isolate it from the brake feed back to the R/S.”
Sorry, but I’m a novice, so I’m interpreting this to mean,
Program Menu 2-10, Channel 2 to link the Aux button to activate a relay which activates the remote circuit? And somehow use Bitwriter to set a 10 sec instead of 30 sec delay? And I‘m delaying one of the ignition circuits?

Racerjames76,
I bypassed the clutch by pushing the clutch pedal in and everything worked. So it’s possible the Neutral Safety Switch is not connected or reading properly?
Feel like I’m making progress but still pretty confused.

Move the RS's large purple and green wires from where ever they are now to the starter-side of the clutch switch. Cut the wire. Purple towards the starter side, Green towards the switch side.

Test carefully. Make DAMN sure its in Manual mode. Or it can be cranked with the RS while left in gear. Not cool. Too much risk.

iasithol wrote:

,snipped>

Racerjames76,
I bypassed the clutch by pushing the clutch pedal in and everything worked. So it’s possible the Neutral Safety Switch is not connected or reading properly?
Feel like I’m making progress but still pretty confused.

What I am getting at is that it sounds as if you are not interfacing the remote start to the clutch bypass correctly. If it works with you pressing the clutch manually and does not work without you pressing it then the issue is that you need to perform electrically what is happening when you depress the clutch pedal during remote start. I think that is what howie is getting at as well.

Testing a remote start in automatic mode eliminates the saftey process of manual mode but allows you to determine the exact cause of any issue much easier. Obviously once the issue has been resolved you would put it BACK INTO MANUAL MODE. No one is suggesting leaving it in automatic mode for any purpose other than testing and finding the original poster's issue.

I have heard that the clutch switch may have a timing issue on honda's as well. If you haven't already please describe how you interfaced the remote start to electrically interface with the clutch switch in the car.

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To master and control electricity is perfection. *evil laugh*

After re-reading this thread I realized that the clutch is your main issue. Solve that and the rest of the issues will go away.

You have to duplicate electrically what the clutch is doing when you start the car yourself.

Unfortunately I do not have any wiring info for you. Look at the clutch pedal and there should be a switch mounted to it similar to the brake switch.

Are the wires large or small gauge? Are there more than 2 wires?

Simplest way is to measure if they just short together when the clutch is pressed. Use a voltmeter and measure what each wire does and then post back if you need further help.

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To master and control electricity is perfection. *evil laugh*

So many words and all so complicated a read.

Move your remote start starter output wire from the ignition to the wire on the clutch switch that goes to the starter.

I think that's as clear and concise as one can make it on as few words as possible.

Can I give a like to catback's post? posted_image

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

You guys are all over this. Thanks for the help!

I had to dig into my instructions to find out how I wired this. Did it a year ago, alarm worked fine, knew the Remote Start didn’t work but buttoned it all up till I had time to deal with it.

How I did it: The install manual says the BLACK/ White Neutral safety switch input “should be connected to the emergency brake wire. It must rest at ground.” This doesn’t really make sense to me as it seems like this is the input that senses the clutch is engaged, or should be. But I probably wired it to the emergency brake wire, as per the instructions. If this is incorrect, this would also explain why I’m getting the 5 running light flashes on termination indicating the brake wire is active.

Regarding catback’s very clear, concise instructions:
Move your remote start starter output wire from the ignition to the wire on the clutch switch that goes to the starter.

My manual has:
Blue Remote Start Status (-) 200mA output,
Pink Remote Start ignition1 (-) 200mA output,
Violet Remote Start starter (-) 200mA output wires.

Catback wants the Violet on the clutch sensor switch, correct?

I didn’t wire any of these because manual said they drive “optional relays.” Instructions for the Violet say “This wire works like the starter wire and can be used (with a relay) to drive any additional starter circuits in the vehicle.”

Violet goes to the clutch wire? Do I need a relay?

No it isn't the BLACK/ white has to see or be at ground (-) /NEG to enable the R/S When the parking brake is pulled up, a microswitch at the base sees ground. Connect to the wire coming from that microswitch. Nothing to do with the state of the clutch.
Now you wrote this:-

Blue Remote Start Status (-) 200mA output,
Pink Remote Start ignition 1 (-) 200mA output,
Violet Remote Start starter (-) 200mA output wires.
Not at all, these are low current NEG out puts.
He means your H3 violet heavy gauge going to the wire on the clutch switch that shows 12V+, ONLY on turning the starter with the clutch depressed.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Ok, here’s my H3 harness. So I tap the clutch sensor wire into H3/4, the starter side of the starter wire?