2014 Honda CR-V, Avital 4103lx

Hi all,
This is my first post on the12volt, but I've been a lurker for a while. Anyways, I'll get straight to the point. I'm looking into installing an Avital 4103LX remote start into my 2014 Honda CR-V. The bypass module that I want to use is the ADS-ALCA. I have a few questions though.

1. I've seen on some topics on this forum that the ignition wires from the remote start get hooked directly into the ignition and starter wires in the car. On the ADS-ALCA wiring guide, however, it says to hook the remote start's ignition wires to the ADS-ALCA. So, where do I splice the wires to?

2. Do I need any relays to make this remote start work with my car?

3. I know that the ADS-ALCA and the Avital 4103LX require +12v and ground connections. Where should I draw power from? (Preferably not the battery)

Also, I would be using W2W for all the connections since it seems to be preferred. I would be flashing the ADS-AL(DL)-HA3 (1.7) firmware.

Here's the link to the Avital 4103 install guide (assuming it's the same as the 4103LX?) And I attached a picture of the ADS-ALCA wiring guide for the 2014 Honda CR-V.


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-jhansen6

The ADS AL-CA with ADS AL(DL) HA3 Type 2 install diagram does not show all the necessary wires for the R/S portion of the install.
Going W2W will work well ( just did a 2013 Civic with the HA3 firmware ).  There are some wires from the bypass module shown that
do not need to be connected ( E-Brake, Trunk Status & Door Status ) as the 4103 has no need for them.

As far as the 4103 to CR-v connections, here goes :
H1/1  LIGHT GREEN/ BLACK  FACTORY ALARM DISARM          to ADS AL-CA
H1/2  GREEN / WHITE  FACTORY REARM           not used
H1/3  YELLOW  (+) IGNITION OUT (TO ALARM) not used
H1/4  WHITE/ BLUE  (-) ACTIVATION INPUT        not used
H1/5  ORANGE  (-) GROUND WHEN LOCKED    not used
H1/6  BROWN  (-) HORN OUTPUT          CR-v Orange or Purple (-) @ horn switch or dash fuse box, 38 pin plug (C), pin 35
H1/7  RED / WHITE  (-) TRUNK RELEASE OUTPUT          to ADS AL-CA
H1/8  BLACK  GROUND Chassis Ground
H1/9  WHITE  (+/-) LIGHT FLASH  * Set to (-)      CR-v Blue (-) @ headlight switch, white 12 pin plug, pin 8

H2/1  BLACK/ WHITE  (-) NEUTRAL SAFETY SWITCH INPUT        Chassis Ground
H2/2  VIOLET/WHITE  TACHOMETER INPUT WIRE           to ADS AL-CA
H2/3  BROWN  (+) BRAKE SWITCH SHUTDOWN WIRE    to ADS AL-CA
H2/4  GRAY  (-) HOOD PINSWITCH SHUTDOWN WIRE    to ADS AL-CA  ( if Factory Hood Pin equipped ) 
H2/5  BLUE/WHITE  (-) 200mA 2ND STATUS/REAR DEFOG         CR-v RED (- LATCHED) BEHIND DASH FUSE BOX 20 PIN CONN, PIN 18   **Set to Latched

4-pin satellite harness diagram
1  BLUE  STATUS OUTPUT to ADS AL-CA Blue/White GWR Input
2  ORANGE  (-) ACCESSORY OUTPUT      not used
3  PURPLE  (-) STARTER OUTPUT   not used
4  PINK  (-) IGNITION OUTPUT       not used

Heavy gauge relay wiring diagram
1  PINK  (+) (30 AMP) OUTPUT TO IGNITION CIRCUIT           CR-v  Red (+) @ ignition switch, white 5 pin plug, pin 2  
2  PURPLE  (+) (30 AMP) OUTPUT TO STARTER CIRCUIT    CR-v Green (+) @ ignition switch, white 5 pin plug, pin 5 ***
3  ORANGE  (+) (30 AMP) OUTPUT TO ACCESSORY CIRCUIT         CR-v  Blue (+) @ ignition switch, white 5 pin plug, pin 4
4  RED  (+) (30A) HIGH CURRENT 12 INPUT CR-v White (50A) (+)   @ ignition switch, white 5 pin plug, pin 1
5  PINK/WHITE  (+) PROGRAMMABLE OUTPUT ****set to ACC2      CR-v Yellow (+)  @ ignition switch, white 5 pin plug, pin 3
6  RED  (+) (30A) HIGH CURRENT 12V INPUT           CR-v White (50A) (+)   @ ignition switch, white 5 pin plug, pin 1
*** The ADS AL-CA BLACK/ White (+) Starter Input wire also gets connected to the thick Purple wire above.

Door lock harness, 3-pin connector
1  BLUE  (-) UNLOCK OUTPUT        to ADS AL-CA
2  EMPTY  NOT USED
3  GREEN  (-) LOCK OUTPUT          to ADS AL-CA

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Soldering is fun!

Why do you not connect the factory alarm disarm wire? I would still like to arm and disarm the system.

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-jhansen6

Think I did :
H1/1  LIGHT GREEN/ BLACK  FACTORY ALARM DISARM          to ADS AL-CA

That takes care of the Factory Alarm Disarm function from the 4103.  As for the Factory Alarm Arm function, the 4103 Lock
output's connection to the ADS AL-CA does both, Lock and Arm with the Lock pulse.  No need for any other Alarm Arm connection.

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Soldering is fun!

1. as Kreg Mentioned, not all connections are shown, due to the fact installers should know large gauge wires are required for function of the start. Make all large gauge connections to the key cylinder, then connect your bypass module.

2. no relays are required

3.you can get the constant power right at the ignition switch. It's capable of 40 amps.

W2W is the fallback when D2D doesn't work. From personal experience, D2D was brutal a few years back; but tech advances have improved drastically. In which d2d errors are very rare unless you have a bad unit. I would flash it DBI-AL(DL)-HA3 use d2d (less clutter) but you MUST hardwire the tach and brake from the 4103 to the idatalink . I haven't used w2w for the last 3 years (compustar/idatalink)

4103 or any entry level start units are notorious for no start when used in d2d. Hardwiring those 2 will fix that.

If you plan to go w2w then go for it.

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Ted
2nd Year Tier 1 Medical School
Still installing as a hobby...pays for groceries
Compustar Expert

Thanks for the input :) When I asked about the factory disarm wire, I meant the re-arm wire, but you explained that. As for W2W or D2D, do you still recommend that I go with W2W since the Avital is an entry level system? Also, even though the ignition switch wire is 40 amps, how much power does the remote start and bypass require? I trust you on telling me to tap into it but I don't want to blow a fuse. Also, are most cars set up so that when you lock the door lock it automatically arms the system (like in the CR-V so you don't have to hook up the factory arm wire)? I plan on installing a remote start on another car also, if this install goes well, so I'm just trying to get as much info as possible.

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-jhansen6

jhansen

The information you got from Ted and Kreg is gospel. These guys are straight pros. They have installed more R/S than I have hairs on my head. I on the other hand am a DIY guy, kind of like yourself. So the advice I am going to give comes from that standpoint, keeping it simple since I don't do it often.

That said, I would not mix and match R/S and bypass. Use the same brand, so if Avital, use a DEI bypass like DB-ALL. or switch to a different R/S if you want the ALCA bypass. I think Fortin makes an All in one unit, but pricey.

I would try D2D first as it will save a few connections, that may be no big deal for a pro, but a DIY guy can save a lot of time with D2D. If no luck then W2W.

Again, Ted and Kreg are the experts, just some food for thought.

Like I've said, I've been a lurker for a while, so I know that the information I can get here is A+++ quality. But anyways I'm just trying to gain as much info as possible because of this install goes well (hopefully so) I want to install another system on another car :) thanks everyone for your help and advice so far!

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-jhansen6

jhansen6 wrote:

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1) As for W2W or D2D, do you still recommend that I go with W2W since the Avital is an entry level system?

2) even though the ignition switch wire is 40 amps, how much power does the remote start and bypass require? I

3) Also, are most cars set up so that when you lock the door lock it automatically arms the system (like in the CR-V so you don't have to hook up the factory arm wire)?

4) I plan on installing a remote start on another car also, if this install goes well, so I'm just trying to get as much info as possible.

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1) As I previously mentioned, the no start issue with the entry level 4103 can be resolved easily. When you use D2D, just do a straight hardwire of the tach and footbrake to the idatalink. Now most would say the unit would read tach over the data connection (true) but if the wire is connected, it will take precedence of a hardwire connection first. same goes for brake status. w2w would work 100% it just becomes a tad messy for my liking.

2) the remote start doesn't draw much. The unit is probably 1 amp at most, while the bypass is <500mA. The vehicles ignition/acc circuit is run off that single 40amp line, therefore you should not have any issues. No worries here.

3) Not all vehicles are set up to dis/arm with un/lock. This is typically vehicle dependant. Some have seperate arm/disarm and lock/unlock (subaru), while others will lock/unlock simply by triggering the factory disarm/arm wires(toyota).

The honda vehicles are slightly deviated from most manufacture, in which the factory remote does not function when the ignition is on. Why? In the engineers mind, why would you need the factory remote to unlock if the car is already running. Makes sense to me, but inconveniences the installer/ 3x lock start ability. Not to confuse anyone or yourself here. This is why you need to do a hardwired analog connection from the bypass to the vehicle(outlined in the idatalink guide).

You may notice an ignition input into the idatalink. Heres a simple breakdown. When the idatalink sense NO ignition, the bypass module sends OEM remote unlock/disarm/lock/rearm codes through the data system. However, when the ignition is ON, OEM codes no longer work ( as stated above, limitation of the vehicle). That is precisely why hardwire connections are required at the kick panel.

4) The beauty of a forum is to ask questions, and receive input/help from other experienced DIY/Pro installers. It's a huge community, and someone always has 2cents to toss into the mix. I knew nothing electrical prior, joined the forum to fix a remote starter in my moms vehicle - Been installing professionally and as a hobby ever since. I've put down the wire strippers for some time to focus on med school, however the odd side job here and there keeps me sane.





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Ted
2nd Year Tier 1 Medical School
Still installing as a hobby...pays for groceries
Compustar Expert

manahawkinrob wrote:

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jhansen

Use the same brand, so if Avital, use a DEI bypass like DB-ALL. or switch to a different R/S if you want the ALCA bypass. I think Fortin makes an All in one unit, but pricey.

I would try D2D first as it will save a few connections, that may be no big deal for a pro, but a DIY guy can save a lot of time with D2D. If no luck then W2W.

Again, Ted and Kreg are the experts, just some food for thought.

---

Thanks for the feedback, greatly appreciated!

+1 I have always done d2d, and if something failed i would simply switch over to w2w. I partially agree that when choosing a remote start brand, you should stick within its Family. However, I've had really bad luck with Xpresskits, to the point I never consider them first. I Will only resort to idatalink or Fortin. Idatalink and fortin will work with ANY remote start brand out there. They support all data protocols from APO/Idatalink, D2D, Fortin Protocol, Encrypted Protocol, and remote start companies have taken into account of these protocols as well.
Realistically speaking, you can use any of the 3 bypass modules on any remote start system out there.

Being a compustar user, i've been accustomed to using idatalink blades for any install I do.

BTW, idatalink is also an all-in-one bypass solution, just it requires you to flash a file for your specific application. The fortin comes PRE-LOADED; technically it's ready to go out of the box ! great for mobile installers.


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Ted
2nd Year Tier 1 Medical School
Still installing as a hobby...pays for groceries
Compustar Expert

It's cool that your first install was on your mom's vehicle because the Honda that I'm installing this on is my mom's car also. I'm excited to get experience on working with remote starters because I paid a shop to install a remote start on my car recently and ended up spending a fortune. :/ And I'm rather an avid DIY'r so it's painful to pay a lot of money for something I could have potentially done myself. But now that I've joined this community, hopefully that won't happen again :)

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-jhansen6

I like the idea of "keeping it simple".  Using products from one manufacturer / supplier is a good idea.  For the professional, having
the necessary USB bypass module flash cable ( XKLoader2 for DEI, ADS USB for iDatalink and FlashLink for Fortin ) isn't an issue,
just a one-time purchase of an important tool.  For the DIYer, the extra $40 to $90 per cable could be prohibitive.  Now-a-days, almost
every bypass module has to be flashed prior to use.   We all have our favorites, usually a product you are familiar with that has
performed well.   iDatalink is my go-to bypass module, with Fortin a very close second. 

Just one more thought.  As mentioned by Ted, some of the entry level R/S systems have some difficulties with D2D.  They are getting
better but...    Aside from Tach and Brake issues, the 4103 can have ESP BitWriter / DBI D2D port function problems.  Some units
are shipped with the port set to ESP BitWriter and need to be manually switched over to DBI D2D mode for proper operation of the
D2D data connection to the bypass module.  Due to those issues, if I am using a full featured bypass module ( one that performs
more functions that just transponder bypass ) and an Avital 41x3 unit, I go W2W between the modules.  While it is time consuming,
done on the bench during the prep phase, it can be done neatly, is very logical and always works 100%.  No post-install / testing
issues and no come-backs.  If you have the time, going D2D could work OK and you can always revert back to W2W if necessary.

Here are the steps to switch Data port modes on the Avital 4103 :
Avital /  Python BitWriter/ESP to DBI mode port change over.

To use as D2D mode follow the below steps:
1. Remove all power from the Avital R/S brain.
2. Make sure Avital's WHITE/ Blue activation wire is grounded.
3. Power the unit up. If the system LED flashes for 5 seconds, you are now in DBI D2D mode.  If the system LED comes on solid
    for 5 seconds, you are now in ESP/BitWriter Mode - start over at Step 1 to get the 5 second blink for DBI D2D mode. 
4. Remove the WHITE/ Blue wire from ground.  ( Do this cleanly, without pulsing the WHITE/ Blue wire.)

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Soldering is fun!

Oh and also, to make the wiring connections, should I go with just a good ol' soldering iron and solder?

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-jhansen6

If you never soldered before, you can do more harm than good. Keep it simple with a strip, poke and twist. Aka the military splice and you should be fine. Most mid market 35watt soldering irons often don't heat up enough to solder a 12gauge wire. This is where butane irons shine.

Don't skimp out on electrical tape either.

3M superscotch 33+, scotch 700 or 88+ works great. About 6 dollars a roll-holds up in the cold

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Ted
2nd Year Tier 1 Medical School
Still installing as a hobby...pays for groceries
Compustar Expert

On any butt type wire connections, heat shrink tube ( available at WalMart and RadioShack, among other places ) works great. 

Remote start unit and ADS DL bypass module bench-prepped in W2W mode :

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Soldering is fun!

Sorry for the late reply, been busy with school and family. Thanks to everyone who contributed to the thread! You're a great help! I am now a lot more confident to start this whole install

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-jhansen6