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2012 Ford Focus PTS/Man Trans Viper 5706/Dball2

Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Security and Convenience
Forum Discription: Car Alarms, Keyless Entries, Remote Starters, Immobilizer Bypasses, Sensors, Door Locks, Window Modules, Heated Mirrors, Heated Seats, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=139597
Printed Date: July 28, 2021 at 2:23 PM


Topic: 2012 Ford Focus PTS/Man Trans Viper 5706/Dball2

Posted By: robl
Subject: 2012 Ford Focus PTS/Man Trans Viper 5706/Dball2
Date Posted: October 19, 2015 at 9:52 PM

Hi all, quick backstory, I had my Viper 5706/Pkall combo in an older Ford that I no longer drive, but my new (new to me anyway,) car is a 2012 Ford Focus, Titanium, manual transmission, PTS.   The Pkall can’t be used on this car so I kept it in the family by using the Dball2. I have been advised that the idatalink is also a great choice, (maybe even a better choice?)   I’m reusing the 5706V for the remote start functions, so why the 5706v?

1)     2 way LCD remote

2)     Up to 1 mile range, (I work in a 10 story building with a large parking lot where I may have a view of my car and sometimes not.)

3)     Dball2 by itself with 3x “Remote Start Ready” (RSR) not applicable for Manual transmissions.


I received fantastic advice here so here are my new questions. I’ve attached pics of the wiring diagrams for the 5706v and Dball2, as well as the application charts for my car, ( for those that are learning like me.) I’ve marked on the 5706v install sheet which wires are “covered” by the D2D and don’t need to be physically wiRED / hooked up. I’ve marked which wires are D2D and which are Hard Wired.    I’ve also made some marks on the Dball2 sheet to reflect my Manual Trans application.   (I was able to flash my Dball2 with the correct FORD5 v1.13 for Push To Start)

1)     I’m using D2D, and the wiring diagram shows connecting an (+) Ignition status form the 5706v H3/10 PK to the Dball2 RED 12 pin connector/9. It says on the Dball2 application chart that it does “Ignition status” (last column in vehicle app guide pic). What’s the deal, hook it up W2W or not if using D2D?

2)     I have to hardwire the rear defroster H2/2, but the defroster circuits for the side mirrors are either run from the same rear defroster circuit or they’re run from individual door modules. Is there a way to tell what I have without door disassembly? If I do have modules, from the wiring diagram, they’re powered by the door module, so they’re turned on/off through the Data network…means I can’t control them with the remote start/Dball2, (unless that is a bitwriter option?)

3)     In my previous car, I had to wire the individual Accessory circuits so I could have the Heater or A/C on in a remote start, do I have to wire separate accessory circuits from the 5706v in the Focus? I’ve been looking at the HVAC diagrams and of the various modules, it looks as if they’re “hot at all times.” Is it just a matter of the BCM seeing a Push To Start command and then turning stuff on?

4)     I bought a Directed THFD1 harness but it looks like I don’t need that due to using the D2D. Looks like that harness is used if you have an alarm/remote start that does not support D2D (?) and don’t want to cut/splice wires.

Is there anything I’m missing?

Thanks everybody!

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Replies:

Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: October 20, 2015 at 1:55 AM
1) Yes; violet/brown DB-ALL 2 to pink on H3 of the Viper.
2)Can't help you too much with this, too different to the Euro version as well as having softer suspension, BUT.
The defoggers for the mirrors will be a nightmare, you'll have to go into each door and get the output from each door module.
The vehicle uses a CAN to the door which then divides into LIN to component I/O!!
I even had to do that with lock/dead lock/unlock.
If you have mirror defrost on with engine run then turn off. does the defrost automatically come back on when you restart?
If so leave them on when you finish the previous journey.
3) Your last sentence is correct.
4) Put aside the harness just follow that D2D diagram.


-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.




Posted By: robl
Date Posted: October 20, 2015 at 6:48 PM
Thanks Howie!

I just had an "uh..duh!" moment, Rear Defroster switch signals the BCM/etc to turn on the rear defroster, as well as telling the individual door modules (via CAN) to turn on the side mirror defrosters, so that might be a non-issue. I plan on getting the install done this weekend, and we'll see how it goes.

Yeah, softer suspension = spot on. I would of liked the upgraded handling package (firmer struts,) but I'd pass on the 18's with summer rubber. They look great, but not interested in the tire $$ or the bent rims due to Midwestern roads.   Maybe I'll upgrade the susp. down the road....




Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: October 21, 2015 at 12:21 AM
Of course in Europe especially BMW you kill the sports suspension option and with most Euro cars stick to the smallest size wheel diameter.

-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.




Posted By: robl
Date Posted: October 29, 2015 at 8:01 PM
Alrighty, I was able to get the Dball2 programed by a local, authorized Dealer. A BIG thank you to Z-Tech in Naperville, IL.

(Side note for other amateurs like myself, you can program the firmware via the XKloader through the Directed website, but you can not do the KEY2GO.)

I've now programmed the 5706v for a manual transmission in the feature menu. I've also performed the tach learn procedure, and received 2 parking light flashes in return, (D2D learned/response.) So now I'm getting the 7 blinks when trying to do a remote start. This means the MTS shutdown procedure has not been performed, so when I do that, I get another problem.

Doors closed, engine running:
1) Apply brake
2) Apply E/parking brake
3) Release brake
4) Push remote start button but I get an "Error" message on the remote.

My connections are all the same/listed above. Is there a way to verify what signals I am or am not getting via the D2D, such as verifying parking or foot brake apply is being monitored? I'm going to give my install and feature menu another once over, but I'm kinda' out of ideas. Any ideas/help is appreciated,

Thanks!




Posted By: robl
Date Posted: October 29, 2015 at 8:58 PM
Also, forgot to add that I did enable the (checkmark) all available options during the firmware flash. I didn't actually click any of them, they were all selected as default so I just left it as is and flashed the firmware. Do I have to turn any of those off?

Did some more searching on here, of the problems others have had, I checked my install and all seems to be ok. I've tried the remote start initialization procedure and still the Error, and get the same code: #7.




Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: October 30, 2015 at 3:28 AM
BLACK/ white parking brake input try hardwire.
Also temporarily set up as an auto, then try it, error code will point to what is wrong.

-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.




Posted By: robl
Date Posted: October 30, 2015 at 10:28 PM
Ok, BL/WH park brake hard wired to vehicle harness (WH/VT) at BCM.

Remote Start MTS shutdown procedure now works correctly, however, it will not remote start. The car powers up, but I get a "push clutch to start" message on the dash display. It does this a couple times, then sets of the alarm.

If I manually depress the clutch during a "remote start," the car starts/runs fine.

Seems the Dball2 isn't generating/transmitting a clutch closed signal, etc or (?)




Posted By: robl
Date Posted: October 30, 2015 at 11:42 PM
FIXED IT. I guess since I don't work on cars professionally anymore I also don't check my wires thoroughly...what a silly goose. I found my mistake double checking the clutch circuit via the factory electrical manual:

There are two BU/OG wires in connector C2280A at the BCM, one is from the clutch switch and the other is from the hood switch. I had my Dball2/Clutch / YELLOW wired to the hood switch, WRONG! So when I connected to the correct BU/OG clutch wire and did a remote start procedure, all worked perfectly.

Thanks to Howie II for the parking brake hardwire tip, etc. You're a lifesaver mate!




Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: October 31, 2015 at 2:32 AM
Old Ford trick since around 1999, one wire colour, multiple wires all different functions, that's why I pull the plugs and check the terminal numbers with a magnifying glass!
You're so lucky you didn't have to go to the actual clutch or brake switch!

-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.




Posted By: robl
Date Posted: January 18, 2016 at 3:35 PM
Ok guys, I've got a new problem with the single digit temps that just set in. When remote starting, it cranks for half the time, does not start, and will not attempt to re-crank/start. The headlights stay on as do the interior functions (heater, etc.) and I can't shut anything off with the remote. I have to get into the car and start or cycle the PTS to get the car to shut-down. If I run the car for a few minutes and try the remote start again, it works. Doesn't seem to like the cold...perfect, lol!

Vehicle has a new battery, about a month and a half old, cranks fine otherwise, albeit a hair slower due to the low temp.

I do not have an RPM wire hooked up from an injector/coil, it was getting the signal through the D2D.

I've tried relearning the RPM at different rpm's, (above 1200, at idle, at idle warm, etc.) doesn't make a difference.

The menu options are set to Tach, ( as that is the only one that will work with a manual trans, (?) )

I was able to do shut-down diagnostics on the last no-start fail, I got codes 7, 3, 4. I know what they are, but I don't have them in front of me. 7 is the MTS shutdown/set procedure, and I know I did that correctly, as I got a conformation honk and it did crank, just not long enough. 3 & 4 I can't remember...one of them is low crank rpm, maybe ?   


Not sure what else to look at/try. Should I run an RPM wire anyway? I read a post where someone with a 5706v/dball2 combo issue had to hardwire the Dball2 for B+ as the brain wasn't supplying enough battery in his application. Not sure that is applicable, but who knows?

I hope everyone is staying warm, thanks for any advice!
Rob




Posted By: robl
Date Posted: January 19, 2016 at 12:23 PM
Just saw this thread:

https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=140678

Given the relationship between Ford/Mazda clicked on it, and ricardoboston is having a similar problem with his Mazda 3.

Here are the highlights:

Sparkie:

"Hardwire the tach output wire from the DB-ALL2 (PURPLE / white) to the remote starter's tach input. Program the remote starter for new tach signal. Failing that, connect tach from remote starter to a tach source on the motor.

You can try just connecting the PURPLE / white tach output from the DB-ALL2 to the PURPLE / white tach input for the remote starter first as this is easy. The processor in the in the remote starter is sometimes too slow to get a good tach signal through D2D. DEI recommends hardwiring it this way on many vehicles where virtual tach won't work (Hyundai and Kia). If this fails then hardwire the remote starter's tach input to the engine's tach wire under the hood. Make sure that the ground for the remote starter is good and to the chassis. "


jameselantra:

"wire tach from engine to remote start 9 pin harness not dball2.

This is correct.

However I just said run the tach from your crank to your RS because with your model RS if tach is present aka hardwired to the RS it will ignore the dball.

So you can turn off the dball setting, in your case it wont make a diff as when you hardwired a Viper 4105v the dball tach signal is automatically ignored if present. makes no diff at all.

Hardwired tach takes priority on all DEI RS brains. This I am 100% sure of. I dont give advice unless Im 100% sure I know what Im saying.

If your car was my car I would first hard wire the tach

Then I would start the car, hold the valet button un the Viper 4105v till the red led glows solid (should happen pretty fast) then let go of the valet switch.

Then shut off the car.

Then test all should work"

I'll run a hardwire from my 5706v to the Dball2 and re-test, if that does not work, then I'll run a hardwire from engine injector/tach signal to 5706v and report back, thanks guys!





Posted By: robl
Date Posted: January 20, 2016 at 9:56 AM
Ran a hardwire from the 5706v tach to the Dball2 tach last night, however it did not hit single digit temps overnight so not 100% sure that cured the issue. This morning, in the low/mid teens, it did start as normal, so all is well until the temps drop and then I'll really know if it has been fixed.





Posted By: jameselantra
Date Posted: January 20, 2016 at 12:55 PM
Did you remember to re-learn tach?

If you ran a wire anyway why didnt you go to the engine bay for tach?




Posted By: robl
Date Posted: January 21, 2016 at 1:23 PM
jameselantra: Thanks for the help. Yup, relearned tach, received 1 light flash conformation. Why didn't I run a wire? I wanted to see if just a hardwire from 5706v to Dball2 would make a difference, it didn't. I had a failed r/s this morning, so I'll run that wire tomorrow night, yay! Gettin' closer, maybe, lol!




Posted By: robl
Date Posted: January 26, 2016 at 12:09 PM
Update: Wired 5706v Tach wire direct to #1 fuel injector, GN/BL at connector on front/pass side of Intake manifold, ( might be C110 or 109.) Relearn Tach procedure at 1500 rpm +. Checked r/s function multiple times that night = all good. Successful r/s yesterday morning, but it was in the 30's.

This morning, failed r/s. A little surprised due to the temps being in the 20's but it was windy so maybe that wind-chill factor kicked in and everything got "cold enough."

Momentary crank, then it just sits there with all the accessories on, then honks the horn once. The remote alarm goes off reporting r/s error as well. I didn't get a chance to run the shut down diag, ( had to jump in and go.) If it fails again tomorrow morning I might have enough time to run the diag. Probably get the same codes as before, but who knows...?

wth? and more importantly, what can I try next...I'm up for the next best idea (or any idea!)





Posted By: mscguy
Date Posted: January 26, 2016 at 1:40 PM
Does your car have built in anti-grind? If so, can you just go with a fixed crank time?




Posted By: robl
Date Posted: January 27, 2016 at 3:40 PM
mscguy: Good question, I'll have to do some research. I've read that due to my car being a manual transmission, "TACH" is the only option I can use in the menu, so fixed crank times are not applicable, unless that is wrong, (?)

Had another weird start this morning, got cold enough last night with the windchill to make for a good r/s test, so I stood next to the car this time, hit the r/s, car started right up, was running as I was walking back inside then it shut down, everything turned off as if I hit the remote again, but I didn't touch/bump/etc the remote, so not sure what that was. I've never had it run and shut off before, up until this point the issue was a very short crank, no start, then accessories/lights stay on and I get an error message on the remote and I can't shut anything off with the remote.

This has all been with the LCD remote, maybe I should try the other non-LCD remote?




Posted By: jameselantra
Date Posted: January 27, 2016 at 7:03 PM
where did you buy your hardware?




Posted By: mscguy
Date Posted: January 27, 2016 at 7:16 PM
robl] wrote:

mscguy: Good question, I'll have to do some research. I've read that due to my car being a manual transmission, "TACH" is the only option I can use in the menu, so fixed crank times are not applicable, unless that is wrong, (?)




Yeah. Never mind. I forgot about that.




Posted By: robl
Date Posted: January 28, 2016 at 1:47 PM
jameselantra: S P A M via Amazon.com for the 5706v and DirectedElectronics Via Amazon.com for the Dball2.




Posted By: robl
Date Posted: January 28, 2016 at 1:49 PM
The first one should read: If I was "Hooked on Electronics" without the "Elec".




Posted By: robl
Date Posted: January 29, 2016 at 8:03 AM
Ok, used the other remote to do a r/s this morning, pretty cold outside so it was a good test morning. Car started up, ran for 5-10 seconds, then the engine stopped running, but it did not shut off the accessories or lights. Then my lcd remote started going off with a "key on" alarm.

So through all of the recent experimentation, changing where the TACH wire is connected:

1st to the Dball2 via D2D
2nd to the Dball2 hardwire
3rd to the Fuel Injector/rpm

After the 3rd change, the car now starts and runs but the engine stops running after 5-15 seconds. The inconsistent part is when the engine stops, do the accessories stay on or are they turned off, when they stay on the lcd remote give an error message. If the accessories shut down, the lcd remote reacts as if it was a normal r/s cancel and the "manual trans" icon goes away and the r/s function is unavailable.

Is the error between the Dball2 and the 5706v, between the Dball2 and the vehicle communications network or between the 5706v and the vehicle....??? No clue as to what other wiring changes can be made that could effect this issue.    Did I install parts made on a Monday morning/Friday afternoon?

I've got a r/s that won't r/s in the cold, frustration is starting to set in (lol!)






Posted By: robl
Date Posted: February 01, 2016 at 7:25 PM
A couple more r/s failures:

No start at work, no error message on my remote, (found out when I went out to the car.)

No start at home, started normal, 5 seconds later, shutdown, (shutdown accessories as well this time.) I caught it on video, I'll post it to my youtube channel if anyone thinks it might help.

Thanks guys,
Rob




Posted By: robl
Date Posted: February 01, 2016 at 7:56 PM
Decision time, time to doodie-can the DEI/Viper system and go with something else.

Compustar or Omega? Any thoughts or preferences?

Are the Flashlogic and iDatalink the same thing? Websites look very similar (?)

What I want is 2 way lcd remote and 1 mile range, not too concerned about the alarm part of it.

Thanks guys!




Posted By: robl
Date Posted: February 09, 2016 at 8:26 AM
So I disconnected the TACH wire from the injector and reprogrammed it for D2D Tach, its been working good so far. The temp is dropping again this week so shoukd be a good test temp. Of course, this happens as Ive alreay ordered a different unit...its like the Viper knows its been bad and wants to make up for it lol!





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