Printer Friendly Forum Posts - 4015V starts truck but immediately stops

I am struggling with a viper 4105V install in my 2007 Chevrolet Silverado Classic (V6 with auto). I am also trying to use a flashlogix FLCAN module (the fourth one is on its way from Crutchfield so that's another story in itself).

The truck starts when prompted by the remote but just runs for a second or two and cuts off. It does this three times and gives up. There are no flashes or clicks from the viper when it ends the cycle. Doing the diagnostics, its complaining about the tach signal (getting three flashes) but I have the tach hardwired to the instrument cluster (white wire at A5). The connections are all soldered correctly.

It appears it is doing the tach learn correctly (red led flashes and then goes steady after a second or two) so it must be seeing the tach signal, right? When I disconnect the tach wire, it does the same thing under virtual tach (starts, then immediately shuts off).

I've spent hours and hours on the phone with multiple techs at Crutchfield but have still not got this sorted out. I'm on my second viper unit (thought maybe the first one was bad).

We tried to increase the crank time thinking that maybe the tach signal was a second or two late to latch the run function but manually programming it in didn't seem to increase the time so I don't know if we were doing it correctly.

I've not yet gotten an FLCAN to work properly- they sent two with the wrong program and the one that was right would not do the final programming step to initiate BUT, I'm doing this with the key in the ignition, so the FLCAN should be out of the equation anyway at this point.

I'm tempted to get the bitwriter to see what I can find in the Viper programming but would hate to throw more money at this if I can't make it work.

Anybody seen this before or have any ideas?

Thanks.

Did the FLCAN program ? Is it in d2d or hardwire mode ? Try disconnecting the Viper's brake input wire and the do a remote start and see what happens! Also the LED is supposed to turn solid when it learns Tach signal and not flash .

-------------
triniforever

Did you test the tach wire for the proper reading?

-------------
When all else fails, Read the Instructions
Support the12volt.com Make a Donation

The FLCANs are being programmed by Crutchfield. I can't remember if I am setting the program to data mode or hardwire but neither mode has worked. I can change the installation mode selection but have not yet gotten one with the correct program loaded that allows me to successfully complete the final module programming procedure (with the ignition sequence).

We did disconnect the brake switch wire but it did not correct the problem. The brake pedal is also cancelling the start sequence when pressed and I checked the function with my multimeter. IIRC, when the brake wire is disconnected it does not allow the start sequence to initiate.

As far as the tach learn, it is working correctly- start he truck with the key, within 5 sec, press the valet button. After 3 seconds the LED lights constant when the tach signal is learned.... Release the valet button.

smokeman1 wrote:

Did you test the tach wire for the proper reading?

I did put my meter on it (fluke 787) and tried to measure mA but didn't get anything. I haven't used the meter for anything but voltage and resistance for the last 15 yrs and I think my fuses on the amp meter are bad.

I'll either try to get a couple fuses tomorrow or use the cheapo meter at work and see if I can get a reading. The truck has a factory tach that is working and I am pulling my tach signal off what should be the correct wire. I've got the signal wire soldered correctly as well.

Still leaves the question, if it is not seeing the tach signal, why isn't it switching over to virtual tach?

i would try setting it to virtual tach. also i believe the 4105 auto start brains do not pick up tach through d2d not 100% on that though. if it is the brake wire shutting it down you would get feed back from the auto start braing.

To measure tach set the meter to 20VAC

-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

How do I set the tach over to virtual? Can I do it without the bitwriter? I thought if it didn't see a hardwired tach signal, it would automatically revert over to virtual.

On Remote Start Diagnostics, I am definitely getting 3 flashes, "low or no RPM, low battery (voltage and virtual tach modes).

Look at the sheet of paper you get with the unit. It explains how to perform nearly all the programming without a bitwriter.

-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

howie ll wrote:

To measure tach set the meter to 20VAC

I am getting around 6.0 V on the tach wire but it is not fluctuating with RPM. Again, I have the factory tach in my instrument cluster and it is working correctly. I was thinking I perhaps had used a bad wire for my tach signal and was maybe going to pull the cluster (again) and measure on the wire itself, but if I am getting a voltage reading, the wire must be OK.

I thought the tach and speedo were both DC stepper motors. Maybe they are and the signal conversion is internal within the instrument cluster circuit board?

They are DC but because of the waveform you must measure it as AC, expect 1.5 -6VAC reading increasing slightly with engine revs.
Out of interest have you tried it with the key in the ignition. BTW Default setting is virtual tach.

-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

This is the Old Body style truck??? Correct? How is the FLCAN wired to the remote start? Is it data to data or hardwired. Also if this is the Old Style truck... I believe it is a passlock 2 issue!!!

I think Ziggy is right, if tach were wrong it would run for 15 seconds before cutting out. Try and leave the key in the ignition (off) and see what happens.

-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Howie, that will not do any good if it is the old style truck... They made the old style for a bit in 07 when the new platform truck rolled out... He listed his truck as a 07 Classic... I think that is the old passlock two

howie ll wrote:

Look at the sheet of paper you get with the unit. It explains how to perform nearly all the programming without a bitwriter.

I did. The only references to virtual tach are a "virtual tach fine tune" which is only available through bitwriter and a reset that I can perform with the valet button.

I might have to get a bitwriter. Assuming my tach signal is good (which is still suspect), I might be able to program out this problem through settings.

howie ll wrote:

They are DC but because of the waveform you must measure it as AC, expect 1.5 -6VAC reading increasing slightly with engine revs.
Out of interest have you tried it with the key in the ignition. BTW Default setting is virtual tach.

Well, I'm not getting the voltage reading one would expect. Like I said, I'm measuring around 6 volts with some fluctuation (+/- 0.5 V) but not fluctuation with a change in RPM (through throttle input).

I have tried it with the key in the ignition but the result is the same.

ziggyb222 wrote:

Howie, that will not do any good if it is the old style truck... They made the old style for a bit in 07 when the new platform truck rolled out... He listed his truck as a 07 Classic... I think that is the old passlock two

It is the classic (old, OLD bodystyle). BUT, if I leave the key in the ignition, wouldn't that rule out passlock being the problem?
If its passlock two, is Crutchfield steering me wrong with wiring and/or hardware?

For the FLCAN wiring I have an ignition input (taken from the pink ignition harness wire) to the pink FLCAN wire, the orange data wire going to my OBDII (pin 2) and the d2d cable to the Viper. For this testing though, its not being used and I am keeping the key in the ignition. I was not instructed to wire anything else on it.

I'm just guessing here because I'm the other side of the pond where we don't have either Silverados or FLCAN that you have the wrong by-pass and wiring.

-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

howie ll wrote:

I'm just guessing here because I'm the other side of the pond where we don't have either Silverados or FLCAN that you have the wrong by-pass and wiring.

Well I sincerely appreciate your (and everyone elses) help with this. I am kind of at the mercy of Crutchfield to trust everything they are providing me (hardware and information) is correct. I've talked to three of their tech people though and am still no further ahead.

I've got the wiring schematic they provided me if I am able to post it on here.

Did they ask for a VIN number or can you do what we do here, give licence plate and that gives them all the details?

-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

The bypass is fine.. You will need to use install guide 3 on the FLCAN website. All the information is there... Your remote start heavy wires should be hooked up to the wires in the switch just above the BCM.. DL-GM1 is the firmware you will need it flashed too...

howie ll wrote:

Did they ask for a VIN number or can you do what we do here, give licence plate and that gives them all the details?

Nope, they don't use the VIN. They just set everything up for an 07 Silverado Classic. I'm hoping the FLCAN being delivered today will provide the Viper with the engine run/tach signal it is looking for through the d2d connection and this solves the problem. At this point I'd just be happy if it worked, rather than specifically understand why it won't.

Tach isn't the issue, more likely by-pass. Read and follow Ziggy's last post.

-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

ziggyb222 wrote:

The bypass is fine.. You will need to use install guide 3 on the FLCAN website. All the information is there... Your remote start heavy wires should be hooked up to the wires in the switch just above the BCM.. DL-GM1 is the firmware you will need it flashed too...

I have been using guide 3 for the wiring diagram (only wiring ignition, data from my OBDII and the d2d wire). The viper is wired up per the schematic they (Crutchfield) provided me. I am getting my fourth FLCAN today and just asked the tech support guy what firmware he loaded on it (I've gotten both 1's and 10's, they can't seem to make up their minds as to what I need). I hope it is 1.

FLCAN aside though- I am only using it, as I understand, as the immobilizer bypass. Still no answers as to what is going on with the starter side itself. This is pretty frustrating- I've done a few remote start installs but it has been a long time (recent vehicles have either come with them or just needed to be activated by the dealer).

What do you have hooked up to the igniton switch wires... You need 12v constant...two ignitions and one acc... It is better to wire it up wire to wire... D2D does not always play well together.. I do all my GMC trucks that way..

Update - might have figured out the problem. The fourth FLCAN that came in yesterday didn't work so Crutchfield tech took my VIN number and started again that way. I had a few back and forth emails regarding the configuration of my OBDII wiring and that seemed to identify a problem. My last email from crutchfield last night-

"Thank you for your help. I have good news and bad news. The good news is that I have several solutions to solve your issue. The bad news is that two of the FLCAN’s that you had, did have the correct firmware for us, we just need to wire it in differently. When I checked the VIN it is built as a new body style Chevy, but it still has the Classic wiring in it at the OBDII port, but out immobilizer data is in a different place, at the key barrel. That is why when we tested the remote start with the key in the ignition it did not work. That test is not applicable to the PK3 data in the truck. I am overnighting you an FLCAN with the DL-GM10 firmware. I am attaching a copy of the wiring that we will need for your truck. I will be here Thursday from 12-8. You should receive the FLCAN that morning. Please let me know if I can help in any way."

So.... it looks like the issue is my truck is in between an 07 and an 07.5 with components from both. That's pretty messed up but since its GM.....

I'll see what I need to rewire and hopefully put this to rest tomorrow. Good timing if it works, this weather is finally supposed to turn where I will actually want to use the remote start in the morning.

ziggyb222 wrote:

What do you have hooked up to the igniton switch wires... You need 12v constant...two ignitions and one acc... It is better to wire it up wire to wire... D2D does not always play well together.. I do all my GMC trucks that way..

On the viper remote start 6-pin harness:

1 RED to Red 40A wire in ignition harness
2 PINK/WHITE to white (heavy gauge) wire in ignition harness
3 RED to second RED 40A wire in ignition harness
4 ORANGE to ORANGE wire in ignition harness
5 PURPLE to YELLOW wire in ignition harness
6 PINK to PINK wire in ignition harness (was also using this wire to get ignition signal to FLCAN pink wire but that may be changing now)

I also have a second acc relay set up. I attached the original wiring schematic provided to me. Based on what was found by the VIN, I suspect a lot of the FLCAN wiring is going to change.

thanks!

posted_image

It would be nice to respond to the people on here that are trying to help you. When we ask a question We are trying to figure out something for you that We have done a hundred times. If you would have listed all your connections to the truck from the starter We would have had the answer to the questions asked. The new body style trucks are PK3...the old style trucks are Passlock 2... totally different. They made the old style(Classic) in 2007.. The circle with a plus in it on the key barrel indicates the PK3 systems or New Body style...also produced in 2007. The people on here install most everyday... someone that has sent you as many parts as they have..are guessing what to do next....

Ziggy, why do you think I suggested a VIN check, but yes I agree.

-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Thank you ncjohn...the wiring at the ignition harness indicates to me that the truck is the old style.... Is your truck the newer style body or not..Also does your key have a circle with a plus inside the circle on the key barrel????

ziggyb222 wrote:

Thank you ncjohn...the wiring at the ignition harness indicates to me that the truck is the old style.... Is your truck the newer style body or not..Also does your key have a circle with a plus inside the circle on the key barrel????

The truck is the older body style- the Silverado classic. Looking at my ignition key, I can see a partial imprint of a circle but can't make out a plus. The key shouldn't be worn- the truck has less than 10,000 miles on it.

thanks

Hmmm what's the carpet like under the pedals, or how clean is the engine bay?

-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

ziggyb222 wrote:

It would be nice to respond to the people on here that are trying to help you. When we ask a question We are trying to figure out something for you that We have done a hundred times. If you would have listed all your connections to the truck from the starter We would have had the answer to the questions asked. The new body style trucks are PK3...the old style trucks are Passlock 2... totally different. They made the old style(Classic) in 2007.. The circle with a plus in it on the key barrel indicates the PK3 systems or New Body style...also produced in 2007. The people on here install most everyday... someone that has sent you as many parts as they have..are guessing what to do next....

I thought I had responded to everyone. I am very appreciative of the time and effort you guys are making to help me out. This was the first time anyone from crutchfield asked me for the VIN and what it seems to have determined is I have the older body with the newer PK3.

Yeah, I came on here (the12volt.com) to up my level of tech support. Those guys at "C" are spending the time but just not coming up with answers for me.

howie ll wrote:

Hmmm what's the carpet like under the pedals, or how clean is the engine bay?

It's legit. My boss bought the truck new in 06 and only put a few hundred miles on it a year (it was a third vehicle). All the mileage is recorded on the annual inspections. I bought it off him a month or so ago with 8,800 miles on the odometer. It's still as brand new.

What did they flash the module with for firmware this time... Should be DL-GM1... There is only one connection to the truck and that is to the purple wire in pin number two of the OBD2 port. I recommend the wires from the starter to the module be hardwired... D2D does not always work out...

ziggyb222 wrote:

What did they flash the module with for firmware this time... Should be DL-GM1... There is only one connection to the truck and that is to the purple wire in pin number two of the OBD2 port. I recommend the wires from the starter to the module be hardwired... D2D does not always work out...

Ok, thanks. I'll let you know how things go tomorrow (Thursday). Hoping to get out of work early enough to get some time on it.

No luck with the newest FLCAN. I went to a local install shop today and the tech confirmed everything looked like it was wired correctly. They think it's a programming issue so I've got an appointment next Thursday so they can spend a bit more time on it (they were booked solid today).

Are you still using Data to data connection?

ziggyb222 wrote:

Are you still using Data to data connection?

I'm still trying to get it to work just off the viper with the key in the ignition. I think once I get it working correctly I can figure out the bypass side.

What are the steps you are doing to change the engine checking? from tach, virtual Tach, ect

Ignition on then off
Press and hold Valet Button until the horn honks twice and LED flashes twice. Release Valet Button. (MENU 2)

Then press Valet button once and release, then press and hold. You should get one honk from the horn and one flash from the LED. (Feature 1)

You should now be in Engine Checking.

Using the remote Lock or Unlock button it will cycle through the options. The horn should honk 1,2,3, or 4 times to indicate which option you are at. Three honks is OFF. Four honks is TACH.

When you have the desired option, release the Valet button, wait about 30 seconds, the system should exit the settings menu with a horn honk,(long)
Try your selection, (Do TACH Learn) or what ever you chose.

It takes a bit of practice to get the steps down, but it can be done.

All of this should be in the guide that came with your remote starter

-------------
When all else fails, Read the Instructions
Support the12volt.com Make a Donation

smokeman1 wrote:

What are the steps you are doing to change the engine checking? from tach, virtual Tach, ect

Ignition on then off
Press and hold Valet Button until the horn honks twice and LED flashes twice. Release Valet Button. (MENU 2)

Then press Valet button once and release, then press and hold. You should get one honk from the horn and one flash from the LED. (Feature 1)

You should now be in Engine Checking.

Using the remote Lock or Unlock button it will cycle through the options. The horn should honk 1,2,3, or 4 times to indicate which option you are at. Three honks is OFF. Four honks is TACH.

When you have the desired option, release the Valet button, wait about 30 seconds, the system should exit the settings menu with a horn honk,(long)
Try your selection, (Do TACH Learn) or what ever you chose.

It takes a bit of practice to get the steps down, but it can be done.

All of this should be in the guide that came with your remote starter

I'll try it again. The installer tried a few things in the programming and they are a viper dealer so he was moving around in it pretty quickly (seemed like he knew what he was doing). Thanks!

are you still in data mode????

ncjohn wrote:

ziggyb222 wrote:

Are you still using Data to data connection?

I'm still trying to get it to work just off the viper with the key in the ignition. I think once I get it working correctly I can figure out the bypass side.

Your truck does not have a chip in the key. Doing this will not help at all. We need to focus on how the bypass learns and what it's doing when you activate the remote start.

I've been trying to get it to work without the FLCAN. I've given up on those for the time being. If the viper is hooked up correctly it should work without the bypass if the key is there, shouldn't it?

ncjohn wrote:

I've been trying to get it to work without the FLCAN. I've given up on those for the time being. If the viper is hooked up correctly it should work without the bypass if the key is there, shouldn't it?

No. Once again, your truck does not have a chip in the key. It has passlock. Passlock is a basically a resistor built into the ignition cylinder. When the ignition switch is turned to the crank position, a specific resistance is sent to the bcm. The fl-can handles this though data. If you want, start the truck with the key then activate the remote start. You should be able to remove the key and it will stay running.

beegbie wrote:

ncjohn wrote:

I've been trying to get it to work without the FLCAN. I've given up on those for the time being. If the viper is hooked up correctly it should work without the bypass if the key is there, shouldn't it?

No. Once again, your truck does not have a chip in the key. It has passlock. Passlock is a basically a resistor built into the ignition cylinder. When the ignition switch is turned to the crank position, a specific resistance is sent to the bcm. The fl-can handles this though data. If you want, start the truck with the key then activate the remote start. You should be able to remove the key and it will stay running.

That is e only thing that that works properly. If the truck is running with the key, I can use the remote to put it in valet mode and it will keep running.