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2015 Elantra with dball2 goin to fortin

Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Security and Convenience
Forum Discription: Car Alarms, Keyless Entries, Remote Starters, Immobilizer Bypasses, Sensors, Door Locks, Window Modules, Heated Mirrors, Heated Seats, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=140895
Printed Date: September 24, 2021 at 11:18 PM


Topic: 2015 Elantra with dball2 goin to fortin

Posted By: jameselantra
Subject: 2015 Elantra with dball2 goin to fortin
Date Posted: February 22, 2016 at 1:03 PM

Ok so I have a 2015 Hyundai ELantra Key start currently using an avital 4103 LX and DBALL2 in the method 1 install using D2D.


Both fortin and a local shop say that if I replace the DBALL2 with a EVO-ALL the annoying light cutout aka lightflash during unlock issue that DBALL2 does on this model car will not happen with the EVO-ALL.


Has anyone here used the EVO products that can confirm I wont have this problem?


I dont want to buy this to end up the same again. Im already upset to be throwing out my first setup.


Please advise.


Im willing to spend money for the right function.

I will love to update to the EVO-ALL if I know this will solve the issue.



Replies:

Posted By: beegbie
Date Posted: February 22, 2016 at 6:45 PM
I appreciate the fact that you want this to work a certain way. Why not just use the module for immobilizer bypass only and hardwire the rest from the remote start to the car?




Posted By: jameselantra
Date Posted: February 22, 2016 at 8:05 PM
If I hard wire my avital and use dball2 as bypass only will it still unlock during remote start since the elantra disables unlocking with engine running? Would it cure light flash? If so I just might.

hmm would this give me driver priority unlock from Avital remote?

It would be easy to wire and I have xkloader to fix the settings in dball2

Im willing to do the work I already know where to tap. been debating this but dont know if Im sending unlock command direct rather than going through can if it will work with engine running.

I also dont understand the whole light malfunction since the dball is working via can bus. it seems glitchy to me.




Posted By: beegbie
Date Posted: February 24, 2016 at 4:39 PM
No driver's door priority with the Avital. Elantra disables unlocking with engine on? Never heard of that. If your door lock switch doesn't work, you should check with the dealer.




Posted By: jameselantra
Date Posted: February 24, 2016 at 7:40 PM
Sorry I meant to say disables unlocking with oem fob with car on, this is normal.

Anyhow picked up and flashed a Fortin Evo-All tonight and Under D2D settings unlike the DBALL2 if actually had a setting for driver priority unlock over D2D unlock signal.

Was telling the installer who doesnt use the DBALL modules about my issue and I showed it to him he said weird.

I will post a video of all my issues with the dball2 and a video of if they are gone with the fortin when Im done.

Considering the many firmware updates on this unit for my car on the fortin vs the DBALL2 using the same firmware for 2011-2013 and 2014 to 2016 with no updates since 2013 I think it will be positive.

If this doesnt work out my next step will be pull it all out hardwire everything and try and use bypass for imob only.






Posted By: dasbogie
Date Posted: February 25, 2016 at 12:28 AM
hold the phones here, neither the dball2 guide or the fortin guide says anything about controlling parking lights via bypass solution. The r/s controls parking lights via ground trigger at the switch. Does the problem with not flashing the lights occur when the headlight switch is left in the on position and you use the avital remote? If so, then maybe use + parking lights from r/s to vehicle which may require 2 diodes to separate right and left side wires.

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Posted By: jameselantra
Date Posted: February 25, 2016 at 7:15 AM
Exactly!!!

Even with the parking lights on connected to the RS the DBALL2 cuts out the power to the "HEADLIGHTS" not just parking ligths.


I have 4 cars I can show this on all proper installs.

only occurs on 2014+

Had an installer check my car in case I did something wrong he opened up with the problem Im reporting is not a problem because he sees it all the time with the dball2

FYI I never even hooked up the parking lights.

Thing is I want to use 1 fob for everything and unlocking via canbus on 2014+ Elantras with the DBALL2 causes this.

Ive been told now by 2 local installers and by Fortin that the fortin uses OE code to unlock over can bus and this behaviour does not occur with Fortins module.

Im not mocking the DBALL2 Im simply saying its not good on this car.

They use the same firmware from 2011-2016. In 2014 the electrical on this car was revised drastically. The problem doesnt happen on 2011-2013 models but does on 2014-2016 models.

The fortin has a seperate firmware for 2011-2013 and 2014 to 2016.

Firmware for the 2014 to 2016 last updated 3 weeks ago. DBALLS last update was before the revision....


I will be posting a youtube video later of the DBALL2 in this car vs the FOrtin in this car.

I will show the multiple reasons for my switch.




Posted By: rs specialist
Date Posted: February 25, 2016 at 9:49 AM
Is your vehicle a US car? If so you probably have no transponder so no need for a module.

Also which model of Elantra do you have? You could use the Fortin EVO-ONE with the T-harness to make the install easier.

The Dball nor the EVO-ALL should control anything with the parking lights.




Posted By: jameselantra
Date Posted: February 25, 2016 at 10:51 AM
if i didnt have an immobilizer i wouldnt buy a bypass.....


my point exactly thats why i call it a bug the dball shouldnt do anything to the lights but on this pecific model there is a BUG which cuts out lighting when headlights on and unlock request is sent via can bus.


bug and unwanted behavior.

this is why im switching modules.




Posted By: jameselantra
Date Posted: February 26, 2016 at 12:51 PM
Well that took all day. And waste of time... The lightflash is still there when unlock over d2d.


The biggest change I see is the lock/unlock over D2D was instant with the dball2 and delayed with the evo-all

I am very picky with my stuff looking cleasn and oem so this took forever I dont feel like doing it again.

Guess I have to live with it :(

I dont understand how fortin thinks this doesnt happen and it does. Same with DEI.






Posted By: dasbogie
Date Posted: February 26, 2016 at 1:42 PM
Well maybe break out a few diodes and go positive parking lights from the avital to the left and right parking lights and you'll get the flashes you desire.

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Posted By: jameselantra
Date Posted: February 26, 2016 at 3:09 PM
no you dont get it. i dont even have parking lights hooked up. the power to the lighting gets cut out all lights dash dome headlights all..... nothing should happen with the lighting but it is.,

seems as though when processing the unlock command via can the system kills light power very weird.

i kinda give up

i spent an extra $200 trying to make this right and am still where I started.

Had a pro look at it who thinks my installs are really nice and told me his install experience with this car was exactly the same.

Guy down the street has the OEM now from Hyundai he walked over while I was doing this today apperantly the damn OEM has this issue too. GRRRR

I think it has something to do with how the commands are sent to allow lock and unlock with engine running.

its the cart not the modules.




Posted By: beegbie
Date Posted: February 26, 2016 at 6:57 PM
dasbogie wrote:

Well maybe break out a few diodes and go positive parking lights from the avital to the left and right parking lights and you'll get the flashes you desire.


Great idea. Problem solved.




Posted By: dasbogie
Date Posted: February 26, 2016 at 8:04 PM
I'm not talking about triggering the factory "relay". I'm suggesting powering the parking lights directly with the + p. light output from the avital. In your case the vehicle positive wires are split left and right so you would want to keep it isolated with diodes. On some vehicles this is the only way to get parking light flashes regardless of what the interface module is doing and how the factory multi function switch is set up when installing an aftermarket product.


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Posted By: jameselantra
Date Posted: February 26, 2016 at 8:14 PM
guys im trying to stope the headlights from cutting out this has nothing to do with parking lights




Posted By: jameselantra
Date Posted: February 26, 2016 at 8:16 PM
what do parking lights have to do with a vehicle cutting out all lighting during CAN commands????? you people dont read




Posted By: dasbogie
Date Posted: February 27, 2016 at 6:17 AM
does this happen regardless of the headlight switch position? does this happen with engine off? does this happen with engine on?

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Posted By: brownsfan1
Date Posted: February 27, 2016 at 5:50 PM
jameselantra wrote:

what do parking lights have to do with a vehicle cutting out all lighting during CAN commands????? you people dont read

Well in your first post you call it light flash. You are the one confusing people trying to help then you go insulting them. You said annoying light cut out aka light flash. Which is it cut out or flash?




Posted By: jameselantra
Date Posted: February 27, 2016 at 9:28 PM
Ok.

SO to be specific.

parking lights are not even hooked up.

if the cars light switch is on auto or on with the engine running or engine off hitting unlock will cause all lighting to cut out.

i dont know to call it cut out or flash its like this lights are on now hit unlock as you hear doors unlock all lights turn off and then turn back on.

Now here is the crazy thing.

first was with avital 4103LX and DBALL2 the light cut out would happen with unlock but would not happen with trunk release or lock.

had multiple installers look it over and was told its all wired perfect.

so initially i swapped out the avital 4103 lx and dball2 for another new dball2 and new avital 4103. problem exactly the same.

Reached out to DEI who first said it was abnormal and then said it was normal and they left it at that.

SO then I spoke to fortin and a few fortin dealers. they all assured me their unit doesnt do this. the dealers told me they did so many of my car and they are sure this doesnt happen.

So again a swap I took the dball2 out put the fortin EVO-ALL in.

Keep in mind this means rewire again so for sure the wiring is good.

Not only does the fortin do it but it does more.......

with the fortin now lock, unlock and trunk cause this to happen where as the dball2 only did it with unlock.

on top of this even though everyone says D2D has a delay with the DBALL2 the delay was so short you couldnt feel a delay.

The fortin has an extream delay from when I push the buttons.

Im sorry for coming across as rude. Im just really upset. I want to fix this so bad.

Im out extra money and still no solution.

I have found others with the same car and the same problem however some out there say theirs is fine.

My installs are exactly as DEI posts for the DBALL2 and I used their latest firmware for my car HKHT 1.09 for my car 2015 Elantra Key with immobilizer using the diagram method 1 as advised

and with the EVO-ALL using firmware 76.25 which they recommend any firmware 76.10 to 76.25 using the suggested install.

Now this might not sound like a big deal but I do not like the excessive flicked the interior LEDs are suffering due to this bug.

now I was thinking could the avital be sending some command to the bypass causing this issue and a different rs brain solve it?

Im trying to look online for help as I dont want to keep unwiring and rewiring the car. this constant removal of parts is not a great thing to do to a car :(

I came here with this in hope a pro that installs these on these cars could suggest a solution that wont flicker the hell out of my lights.

also with both bypasses the odd remote start will not allow the car to start as if the immobilizer was not bypassed.

sure enough a guy down the road from me has the same car and has gone through the same crap. he gave up and pulled everything out.

if i had to go back to the oem fob and just use the rs to remote start that would be fine. however if this is something that could be fixed it would be nice.


I dont know what else to do.

If I had not already tapped the wiring Ide rather have not added remote start but now that the wires are cut to have no rs module and know the wires are cut makes me mad.

I buy all my cars new and baby them.

Ive put a remote start in many cars with no issues its not the install.

Its either the software on the bypass buggy or the bypasses themselves not liking the car or the rs brain maybe?

Im so lost.

I assumed if companies like DEI and Fortin sold units like this and advertised them as compatible they wouldnt come with this level of problems with no solution in sight.


this just really blows.

What is the point of a CAN Bus interface module if it cant speak over the CAN Bus correctly?

I know I wired correct, I understand the CAN system I dont understand this glitch.


Sorry for rambling on.

SOrry if I come across as insulting.

Im really just very frustrated and upset.

Imagine you buy a car new, your the type that babys it then you keep buying hardware that is "compatible to it" and this happens and you cant get help and your stuck with hardware you no longer want cause its not "compatible" its slightly compatible.

ANd If you reverse it you wont have the feature you wanted just a lesson learned and irreversible wire cuts. not a BIG deal but frustrating. And I really want remote start.

my request isnt that biig, i want my lights not to cut out the way they do and flicker even and I want the car to never have a random crank and no start and abuse the starter motor.

I am going to upload videos showcasing this just so someone like me who tried to research this before going ahead doesnt go down this same road.

One istaller I saw recently as soon as I told him why I was there told me all the things I was about to say to him and told me that his shop now warns Elantras that these bugs will come with the setup.

SO anyway ya, I feel mislead and am upset.





Posted By: dasbogie
Date Posted: February 28, 2016 at 7:07 AM
Thank you for the detailed description of what you are encountering. I'm not here to aggrevate, just to look for solutions. So to be certain, the light cutout only happens when you execute a command with the remote starter remote when the headlight position is left to auto? It doesn't do it when the headlamp position is left to off cause then they would be just that, off.

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Posted By: jameselantra
Date Posted: February 28, 2016 at 8:40 AM
Correct, with light switch in auto or on position.

It is as if the car is removing voltage from light system when unlocking like it would when you start a car.





Posted By: pentavolvo
Date Posted: February 28, 2016 at 11:21 AM
Hardware the locks then instead of doing it over data




Posted By: jameselantra
Date Posted: February 28, 2016 at 11:47 AM
Ok so if I hard wire the locks do I also hard wire the status and alarm disable/enable?




Posted By: jameselantra
Date Posted: February 28, 2016 at 1:18 PM
hmm just found someone with the same car different hardware (all different) same issues. I guess its the way the car works and there is no way around this.


I might try the hardwired option. I just hope if I hardwired it I will get OEM behavior and not this bug. Be nice to know before doing this lol




Posted By: jameselantra
Date Posted: February 29, 2016 at 6:19 PM
a youtube video of the problem

Light cut out


Also note Ive been communicating with Fortin about they and let me tell you they have an amazing support staff there. Good company to deal with

The guy I bought my EVO-ALL from is also a good guy.

Im hoping they can fix this.

With the DBALL2 this only happens with unlock, with the EVO-ALL it happens on lock unlock and trunk.




Posted By: wirewise
Date Posted: February 29, 2016 at 6:30 PM
I've followed this post from the beginning and thought it was killing the lights upon lock/unlock from the way you described it, but now I see it only momentarily interrupts the lights during lock/unlock. I actually like the feature myself as being a good visual indicator, so I really don't understand all the fuss.

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~wirewise~ Verify all wiring with your meter before making any connections!




Posted By: jameselantra
Date Posted: February 29, 2016 at 6:59 PM
This light cut out is everytime you unlock or lock. sometimes more of a rapid flicker than others. very bad for the LEDs on the interior no???

If I wasnt scared it would hurt the LEDS life I wouldnt care.

the other thing is when I had the DBALL2 it only did it on unlock.

now with the EVO-ALL it does it with unlock lock and trunk.

there is that issue and the fact that once every blue moon the car will crank but not start now 5 times in 4 months 3 on the dball 2 on the evo




Posted By: wirewise
Date Posted: February 29, 2016 at 7:12 PM
I doubt that will have any effect on LED's.

With the vehicle running with the key and the lights on, do the lights do the same thing when using the lock/unlock switch in the vehicle? And do they they momentarily turn on/off when the lights are off when you lock/unlock with the switch?

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~wirewise~ Verify all wiring with your meter before making any connections!




Posted By: brownsfan1
Date Posted: February 29, 2016 at 7:26 PM
I guess you can try the idatalink ads-alca. I have never seen a Hyundai OT Kia here with the immobilizer so I have never used a can interface on one. I own a Push button start Sonata and mine acts EXACTLY like the OEM remote when I use my Viper remote. I'm using the ADS module in my car. Mine is a 2014.




Posted By: jameselantra
Date Posted: February 29, 2016 at 7:33 PM
brownsfan1 wrote:

I guess you can try the idatalink ads-alca. I have never seen a Hyundai OT Kia here with the immobilizer so I have never used a can interface on one. I own a Push button start Sonata and mine acts EXACTLY like the OEM remote when I use my Viper remote. I'm using the ADS module in my car. Mine is a 2014.


Are your locks hardwire or d2d?




Posted By: mscguy
Date Posted: February 29, 2016 at 7:39 PM
If LEDS were damaged by strobing/flashing, ETC, Martin, Chauvet and various other theatrical lighting companies would be out of business.

If you're really dead set against them flashing, and it's a BCM programming issue, and it only happens under remote start, you'll have to wire power to them after all the electronics using relays and the GWR output. Far too much headache to do imo.




Posted By: jameselantra
Date Posted: February 29, 2016 at 7:43 PM
mscguy wrote:

If LEDS were damaged by strobing/flashing, ETC, Martin, Chauvet and various other theatrical lighting companies would be out of business.

If you're really dead set against them flashing, and it's a BCM programming issue, and it only happens under remote start, you'll have to wire power to them after all the electronics using relays and the GWR output. Far too much headache to do imo.


No this happens all the time under remote start and off of remote start. as long as im using the remote from the rs unit this happens and shouldnt.


My biggest reason for coming here about this was to see if its normal or if its my hardware.

with my dball just unlock does this, with my evoall unlock lock and trunk do this.

Now either somehow the rs brain has something to do with the bypass modules doing this or its just how they work. im curious is anyone out there with a differnt rs brain has seen this on their car.

Am going back and forth with Fortin on this, they are actually a very helpful and polite bunch. I will post the outcome here. if its fixable Im sure they will guide me.

Its not the install. THe install is simple very few wires and has been done VERY CLEAN on a brand new unaltered car with no existing or other issues.




Posted By: brownsfan1
Date Posted: February 29, 2016 at 7:44 PM
jameselantra wrote:

brownsfan1 wrote:

I guess you can try the idatalink ads-alca. I have never seen a Hyundai OT Kia here with the immobilizer so I have never used a can interface on one. I own a Push button start Sonata and mine acts EXACTLY like the OEM remote when I use my Viper remote. I'm using the ADS module in my car. Mine is a 2014.


Are your locks hardwire or d2d?

Locks are being controlled over the can bus via the ads module. Only lighting that happens when I disarm is the dome light coming on and parking lights flashing. Dome light goes out on arm.




Posted By: jameselantra
Date Posted: February 29, 2016 at 7:49 PM
brownsfan1 wrote:

jameselantra wrote:

brownsfan1 wrote:

I guess you can try the idatalink ads-alca. I have never seen a Hyundai OT Kia here with the immobilizer so I have never used a can interface on one. I own a Push button start Sonata and mine acts EXACTLY like the OEM remote when I use my Viper remote. I'm using the ADS module in my car. Mine is a 2014.


Are your locks hardwire or d2d?

Locks are being controlled over the can bus via the ads module. Only lighting that happens when I disarm is the dome light coming on and parking lights flashing. Dome light goes out on arm.


Wow ok so over can asnd exact oem behaviour. OMG looks like Im buying more hardware.




Posted By: mscguy
Date Posted: February 29, 2016 at 8:13 PM
Oh. I see. Sorry, I thought this only happened on remote start.




Posted By: jameselantra
Date Posted: March 02, 2016 at 8:50 PM
Only vires I have not double checked are from my rs brain to ignition switch 12 volt x2 and accessory and start and ignition

someone is telling me this happens when you mix up those connections. i highly doubt this as if i mixed up those wires rs wouldnt start and lock and unlock even with car not running does this.

can i get some input? do you guys think im right or should i check?

checking will require removing lots of tape i wrapped all my wires so it would look oem




Posted By: jameselantra
Date Posted: March 04, 2016 at 3:56 PM
Everything is good, I also now understand why the light flash happens.


All is good.




Posted By: beegbie
Date Posted: March 04, 2016 at 5:41 PM
Glad you figured it out. I'll bet i'm not the only one on here that would like some more details.




Posted By: jameselantra
Date Posted: March 04, 2016 at 8:46 PM
Reason why you see your lights turn Off-On:
There's an autolight shutdown sequence happening. We do this allow the lights to shut down when the runtime of remote start ends which in turn reduces connections since it wouldn't require hard wired connections for autolight shutdown at the end of a remote start cycle. Aside from that, the module is only sending common lock-unlock commands.

At the moment, this is not an issue or a problem. There is room for improvement though and we have asked that it be looked at.




Posted By: shift_happens
Date Posted: April 28, 2016 at 2:26 PM
If this issue is persistent and only happens when door locks are controlled via can-bus, the solution would be to wire lock/arm and unlock/disarm from your R/S to the car. You should be able to test this by simply turning off i think option A1 in the Fortin. If the lights to not cycle with the option off, go analog door lock connections and you'll

Wiring door locks on any hyundai is 'annoying' but very doable. I think you would also have to wire up a shut down trigger for your autolights. not sure.

I wouldnt be surprised though that even with A1 OFF, that the fortin unit will still send that autolight shutdown command. Turn off A1 and find out!







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