2006 Acura tl dball2/clifford 4706x problems (resolved)

hello guys, i'm new here, from all the searching i've done this definitely seems to be the place i need to be. i installed a clifford 4706x remote start and dball2 d2d mode this weekend. i have been able to get the door locks to work perfectly, but having trouble with remote start. i can get the engine to turn over with the remote start but it never cranks, i've tried different methods with the key in the ignition and the only way i've seemed to get to remote start was with the key in the On position. it's got me stumped, was hoping someone here could help.

here is my wiring if it helps
Main Harness - 6 pin connector
h/1 - red - (+) 12VDC constant input - hooked to battery
h/2 - black - (-) chassis ground - hooked to battery
h/3 - brown - (-) 200mA horn honk output - NA
h/4 - WHITE/ brown - light flash isolation wire - NA
h/5 - white - pin 30 of light flash relay - NA
h/6 - orange - 500mA ground when armed output - NA

door lock 3 pin connector
1 - blue - 500mA (-) unlock output - NA
2 - empty
3 - green - 500ma (-) lock output - NA

Remote Start 8 pin connector
1 - RED / black - (+) 12vdc constant input for ACC and starter relays - Hooked to Red #4
2 - pink/black - (+) flex relay input 87a key side (if required) of flex relay - NA
3 - pink/white - (+) ignition 2 / flex relay output - hooked to WHITE/ red at ignition
4 - red - (+) 12vdc constant input for ignition 1 relay - hooked to white at ignition
5 - violet - (+) starter output - hooked to BLACK/ white at ignition
6 - orange - accessory output - hooked to BLACK/ red at ignition
7 - RED / white - (+) 12vdc constant input for ignition 2 and flex relays - hooked to Red #4
8 - pink - (+) ignition 1 input/output - hooked to BLACK / YELLOW at ignition

auxiliary/shutdown harness 24 pin connector
1 - pnk/white - (-) 200ma ignition 2/flex output - NA
2 - blue/white - (-) 200ma 2nd status/ rear defogger output -NA
3 - RED / white - (-) 200ma trunk release output - NA
4 - BLACK / YELLOW - (-) 200ma dome light output - NA
5 - dark blue - (-) 200ma status output - NA
6 - WHITE/ black - (-) 200ma aux 3 output - NA
7 - WHITE/ violet - (-) 200ma aux 1 output - NA
8 - ORANGE / black - (-) 200ma aux 4 output - NA
9 - gray - (-) hood pin input (nc or no) - NA
10 - blue - factory horn input - NA
11 - WHITE/ blue - activation input - NA
12 - violet/white - tachometer input - NA
13 - BLACK/ white - (-) neutral safety/parking brake input - hooked to h/2 ground from main harness
14 - GREEN/ black - (-) 200ma factory alarm disarm output - NA
15 - green - (-) door input - NA
16 - empty
17 - pink - (-) 200ma ignition input - Hooked to pink ignition (+) input from dball2 then hooked into pink #8 on remote start 8pin harness
18 - violet - (+) door input - NA
19 - violet/black - (-) 200ma aux 2 output - NA
20 - brown - (+) brake shutdown input - hooked to WHITE/ black at brake switch
21 - violet / YELLOW - (-) 200ma starter output - NA
22 - gray/black - (-) diesel wait to start - NA
23 - orange - (-) 200ma accessory output - NA
24- GREEN / WHITE - (-) 200ma factory alarm arm output - NA

DBALL2 - only wires used for D2D
- light green - single wire CAN - hooked to BROWN / black at fuse box 21pin
- ORANGE / red - security light - hooked to blue/orange - cut side of #5 pin wire on immobilizer connector
- yellow/red - security light - hooked to blue/orange - harness side of #5 pin wire on immobilizer connector
- ORANGE / black - immobilizer data - hooked to #2 pin wire on immobilizer connector
- pink - (+) ignition input - hooked to pink #17 wire on auxiliary/shutdown harness 24pin connector on clifford remote start - then hooked into pink #8 on remote start 8pin connector

Here is one problem :
auxiliary/shutdown harness 24 pin connector
17 - pink - (-) 200ma ignition input - Hooked to pink ignition (+) input from dball2 then hooked into pink #8 on remote start 8pin harness

Pin 17 Pink should not be connected to the thick (+) Pink or as a (+) Ign input to the DB-ALL2.

Hopefully this did not brick the Viper 4706 brain.

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Soldering is fun!

You should also program the Viper Flex relay output as Accessory. Menu 3, Feature 8, Option 2.

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Soldering is fun!

thank you, alright i'll unhook that. i see my mistake now. it shows on the dball type 1 Honda/Acura wiring instructions that the pink (+) ignition input on dball was supposed to hook to an (+) ignition 1 output on the remote start, then it has a line running to Connect to Vehicle. what would be the proper wiring for that then? i'm not seeing any kind of (+) ignition 1 output wire in my remote start wiring harness. all seems to be good with the brain, hopefully i've caught it before any damage would have taken place

alright i'll try to program that tomorrow as well. thanks for the quick replies and help, it's greatly appreciated

Yes, the Viper Pink (-) Ignition wire is not used for your application.

Here is a photo of the BROWN / Black Single CAN wire :




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Soldering is fun!

aight i'll tape that off.....so just wire the Pink (+) Ignition input from the dball2 to the #8 - pink - (+) ignition 1 input/output wire on the Remote Start 8 pin connector then?

for the BROWN / black single CAN wire you have pictured, i have the dball light green - single can wire hooked to.

well i went back tonight to double check my wiring,unhooked the pink from the viper, made sure my CAN and immobilizer wires had a good connection. still the same result though, remote start only turns the car over but will not start. i did notice that after pressing remote start on the fob, the dball would blink green 3 times, then would start blinking red and orange back and forth. don't know if the info about the dball color would help determine anything

You need to check the Viper Pink IGN1 output. Probably dead. Double check the fuses and all connections. If everything looks good, here is a work-around.

Program the Flex Relay back to IGN2 ( Menu 3, Feature 8, Option 1 ). Connect the Pink/White wire to the TL's BLACK / YELLOW IGN1 wire. Disconnect the Viper Pink wire. Leave the TL's WHITE/ Red ACC2 wire unpowered for now. Try a remote start. If it works you can buy a SPDT relay, use the Vipers (-) ACC output and power the ACC2 wire with the external relay.

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Soldering is fun!

do i just need to check the pink ign 1 wire with a multimeter and see if i get a reading back?

i will give that work around a try tomorrow and see what i can get. to make sure i'm understanding right, don't want to mess anything else up, if it works then i can use the WHITE/ red ACC2 wire from the car to power the relay and hook to the #23 - orange - (-) ACC output wire on the 24 pin connecter?

For testing the Viper problem, you must have a computer safe test light or Digital Multi Meter and a basic understanding of what
is supposed to happen during a remote start. Basically it's the same as a regular key start up. There is a set sequence of
power that happens at the ignition switch.
1. Key inserted, Keysense comes ON
2. Key is turned to ACC - Both ACC circuits come ON
3. Key is turned to ON or RUN - both ACC circuits stay ON and IGN comes ON
4. Key is turned to START - both ACC circuits drop out, IGN stays ON and Starter comes ON.
5. Engine starts, key is returned to ON or RUN - Starter drops, ACC's go back to ON, IGN stays ON

The checks would be to see if the Viper is doing this. The guess is that the Pink IGN output is dead and does nothing, hence the
car cranks but does not stay running.

OK. Here we go. I am making assumptions based on your info. The remote starts works if the key is in and turned to on. That
usually indicates that an Ignition type wire is not getting powered properly. Because of the original mis-wiring, connecting a
Viper (+) output to a Viper (-) output, it is possible that damaged the Viper and it will no longer output any Ignition signals.
You aren't a professional installer with a spare unit on the shelf. Viper will never warrant a unit that was DIY installed. So
we will try to salvge your current system.

The work around. Lucky for you, your vehicle only needs one Ignition type connection. The primary Viper output, Pink IGN1, is
dead. So instead of using the Viper Flex output, Pink/White, for ACC2 we will use it for the TL's very necessary IGN1 circuit.
Again, the Pink is dead so disconnect it and don't use it. Disconnect the Pink/White from the ACC2 wire and connect that Pink/White
to the IGN1 circuit wire. Re-program the Viper so that the Flex output is back to IGN and give it a try.

If that works you can get a 30/40 Amp SPDT relay with harness and in-line fuse to power the TL's ACC2 circuit. Wire as below :
Relay Pin 85 to Viper Orange (-) 200mA Accessory output
Relay Pin 86 and Pin 87 to +12V constant
Relay Pin 30 to TL ACC2 wire
Relay Pin 87a not used - insulate

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Soldering is fun!

thank you so much, i'm gonna give all this a shot after work today and i will report back with how it turns out. thanks again for taking the time to type everything out, i really appreciate it

just wanted to give a little update. after work today i tried your work around by unhooking the Pink viper wire and swapping it with the pink/white viper wire. i spliced the dball2 pink wire into the pink/white viper wire, went to try and reprogram the viper to menu 3, feature 8 and option 1 and the viper control center led would only rapidly blink and not allow programming until i hooked power back to the pink viper wire. did that and reprogrammed and unhooked the pink wire again. i hit the remote start and the car turned over and cranked, but would only stay running for about 1 second and cuts off. so the work around has actually helped out because before i couldn't get to actually crank at all.

Any Security type lights on the instrument cluster, like a flashing green key symbol, during the remote start? If yes, try a remote start with the key inserted but not turned in the ignition switch.

Might be a Tach issue. I like to run in Tach Mode using a proper Tach signal from the car. You could connect the Tach wire, program to Tach Mode, do a Tach Learn and try a remote start.

Being as the Viper needs to see an IGN signal from the car for programming purposes, you could get a 1N4004 diode and connect the thick Pink wire, with the diode in-line, band towards the Viper, to the thick Pink/White. That IGN input sense function seems to be still working.

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Soldering is fun!

i didn't notice any security light on but i will double check to make sure, i know before hand it would start with the key in the ignition switched to the On position.

i'll give the tach wire a shot, do you know off the top of your head what color wire the tach wire connects to on the car?

yeah i was figuring the pink viper wire must still be good since it was sensing it wasn't hooked up. it just didn't make sense to me why it would only turn over with how it was wired before, but when i did your work around it would actually crank for a second.

just double checked and i receive one quick flash of the green key symbol after the remote start fails

Here is some Tach wire info. If I remember correctly, getting through the firewall is a PITA.

TACH Any wire NOT YELLOW/BLACK (AC) @ Any FUEL-INJECTOR

Tach Signal    BLUE/RED   AT ECM MODULE *
*ECM is Located On Passengers Side Behind Center Console. Tach Is In A WHITE Connector It Is The Wire Closest To The Firewall

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yeah you definitely remember correctly about getting through the firewall, it's a pain for sure. but luckily enough i should be able to get through it pretty easy because i already have a wire running through from when i wired up my fog lights that are inside the headlight to be able to come on independently of the headlight. i still might try and just hook up to the ecm if it's any easier to get to.

so far today i have wired in the tach wire and programmed it, still the same result. so i figured i'd try going back and wiring it back the original way just got a shot ion the dark. it went right back to only turning over, but i also noticed when wired back the original way the gauge lights never come on when trying to remote start, didn't have that issue when i had it wired up with the work around method.

just received my SPDT relays in the mail. with the work around you described, do you think that by wiring the relay in to the orange (-) acc output that it will have any effect on my cranking but not staying running?

No, ACC1 and ACC2 should have no effect on that issue. Typically it's Tach or Transponder, assuming the Ignition wiring is OK. I would get a diode and connect the thick Pink wire up to the Pink/White. That could be the issue.

You might try a R/S with the keyhead held next to the ignition switch to see if it is a transponder issue. I don't use DB-ALL2's so I'm not familiar with them.

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Soldering is fun!

aight thanks, i'll have to try that as well then. i was wondering if it could be a key/transponder issue but when i purchased the car i was only giving one key. but it is supposed to be the master key because it has the V in it. the d-ball2 lights up correctly when i try to program it for the key. but i'm starting to wonder if maybe the dball2 isn't a pert of my problem. which bypass module do you usually use for your installs?

For that application, I use an iDatalink ADS DL flashed with the ADS DL-HA1 firmware.

You could try switching to Tach Mode = Fixed and give it a 1 second crank time. See if that works.

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Soldering is fun!

was checking out the idatalink module, and the wiring on it. seems like the only difference in wiring on them is that that Pink Ignition input wire from the idatalink wires into the 6th pin on the 7pin immobilizer harness, where on the dball2 it's telling you to wire the Pink Ignition input wire into the remote starts Pink Ignition 1 output

Possibly a dumb question, but the DB-ALL2 Pink wire at Pin 9 of the Black 10 Pin connector, did you connect that to the thick Pink/White Avital wire?

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yeah i sure did, originally had it wired to the thick Pink viper wire, but when i did your work around i hooked it to the pink/white. from looking at the wiring on the idatalink and fortin modules, both of those use the Ignition Input wire from the bypass modules to Pin 6 of the immobilizer harness. but the dball2 doesn't have it written that way in their installation sheet.

In the case of the iDatalink, I believe that the connection is used mostly for module programming.

I'm wondering if the Viper brain is cooked and our work around in vain...

Does the Viper provide any type of R/S ShutDown code / info that might provide a direction to go in?

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Remote Start Shutdown/Startup Diagnostics
To perform shutdown diagnostics:
1. With the ignition Off, press and hold the Control button.
2. Turn the ignition On and then back Off while holding the Control button.
3. Release the Control button.
4. Press and release the Control button. The status LED flashes to report the last
   shutdown for one minute or until the ignition is turned on, as shown in the
   following table:
Status LED Flashes Shutdown Mode
1 flash Runtime expired
2 flashes Over-rev shutdown
3 flashes Low or no RPM
4 flashes Transmitter shutdown (or optional push button)
5 flashes (+) Brake shutdown
6 flashes (-) Hood shutdown
7 flashes Timer mode/Turbo mode/Manual mode error *
8 flashes Neutral safety shutdown
9 flashes Low battery (voltage mode)
11 flashes Wait-to-start input timed out

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would you like me to test that with the original wiring or wired with the work around?

i know the last time i tried it wired in the work around method, it would just try to start 3 times, then after not staying running on the 3 it just switched on the remote to "remote start off". i don't recall any flashes on the control after that. but i can wire it back up that way and try again just to check if need be.

You can test the thick Pink wire for a +12V output during a remote start attempt. I believe that it is dead and will not output the +12V signal. Assuming that is the case, the work around is your best hope ( short of a replacement brain ).

Did you try Engine Checking = OFF?

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i'll test the pink wire again tomorrow when i can get to the shop and to my multimeter, because i only hit it with a test light on the wire and at the pin for the brain the other day and it showed power going to it. i'll have to try the engine checking as well. i'm just hoping the one careless mistake didn't cost me the brain. i'm almost st the point of just coughing up the $165 and ordering another clifford 4706x, wiring it the original way and seeing if that will fix my issue. just wanted to exhaust all options before i ordered another. would hate to order another one and still have the same problems and then not being able to return it.

tried the remote start shutdown/start up diagnostics. wired up the original way i get 3 and 4 flashes. wired up the work around i get 3 flashes.

Tach issue? Have you tried programming to Engine Checking = Fixed as a test?

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i ran a tach wire to a fuel injector wire on friday, did learning the tach and got the constant led on the control center. just tried programming to engine checking = off and now i'm getting 4 flashes and 9 flashes

And this is with the "work around" wiring?

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just redid the learning the tach and got the constant led again. tried a remote start and got 3,4,9 flashes

yeah this is with the work around wiring

Did you test the thick Pink wire during a R/S?

Did you connect that thick Pink wire to the Pink/White wire through a diode?

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Soldering is fun!

i checked it with it wired in the original wiring and during a remote start it would jump way up to 20 then settle at 12v.
yeah i hooked it up through a diode but still the same results. i'm bout ready to pull my hair out with this thing and i know you probably are as well. i'm sorry for all the troubles but i definitely appreciate the help. i'm still pretty tempted on pulling the trigger on a factory refurbished Viper 4806V i found for $129.99 just to see if that fixes my problem.

That is a decent price and you get extra remotes. Might be worth it. Might be best to go over the wiring one more time. Just
to double check everything. Kind of like proof reading with a fresh set of eyes. Just trace out each wire, it's color and where
it goes to. Write it down and compare it to the list. I have caught a few errors that way.

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Soldering is fun!

yeah i'm gonna try to go back over everything again just to make sure. do you think the new brain is the best place to start, or start by trying either an idatalink or fortin module in case anything got messed up with it? i know the dball2 seems to be programming fine and locking/unlocking everything like it is supposed to.

Would you be interested in sending the brain to me. I could check it out on the bench and send it back to you.

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yeah let me go back over everything again and if i still can't get it going then i'll take you up on that offer

went ahead and pulled the trigger on a viper 4x06 that smokeman1 had showed me for a good price, an idatalink ads-dl, and the idatalink ads-usb to flash it. figured i'd start back from scratch and with a module that i know i programmed myself and see what kinda results i get. plus it also didn't hurt that i was able to purchase everything for cheaper that the one factory refurbished kit that i found. so i'll definitely report back once i receive and try them. thanks again kreg357 and smokeman1.

If you want to go D2D between the Viper and the ADS DL, flash the bypass module with the DBI-DL-HA1 flavor of firmware, not the ADS flavor.

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thanks, i'm definitely going to try D2D first and see how it goes. i'll prob run all my wiring by you again before i hook everything up this time just to double check and make sure, if that's cool with you. i was going to wire everything back up the original way from the viper this time, and hopefully have better luck with it and the idatalink

Kreg or anybody familiar with the idatalink products. i just received my ads-dl in the mail today, when flashing it i realized it came with the 2 small connector D2D cable, and also a connector with 3 wires and only 1 connector on the end that plugs into the data port. my question is can i use the small d2d cable that came with it and clip the end and use one of my other DBI d2d cables and wire the red DBI connector to my idatalink connector so that it can plug into my viper d2d port?

PM me with your address and I'll send you an official iDatalink DBI D2D harness ( never use them ). I could ohm one out for you to make your own cable if you can't wait.

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figured i'd post up the W2W write up i did for the IDatalink ADS-DL to the viper 4x06.
the only connections i am unsure about are the Starter Input (+) - BLACK/ white, and the hood status output (-) yellow.

IDatalink ADS-DL W2W
- tach AC output (-) - PURPLE / white to #12 PURPLE / white (-) tach input 24pin viper harness   to fuel injector if virtual tach isn't working
- door/trunk status output (-) - green to #15 green (-) door input 24 pin viper harness
- starter input (+) - BLACK/ white to #5 violet (+) starter output 8pin remote start harness
- right sliding door input (-) - PURPLE / black NA
- left sliding door input (-) - purple / YELLOW NA
- disarm input (-) - brown to #14 GREEN/ black (-) 200ma factory alarm disarm output 24 pin viper harness
- trunk input (-) - RED / white to #3 RED / white (-) 200ma trunk release output 24 pin viper harness
- unlock input (-) - blue/black to #1 blue 500ma (-) unlock output   3 pin door lock connector
- lock input (-) - GREEN/ black to #3 green 500ma (-) lock output   3 pin door lock connector
- 12V (+) - red to #4 red (+) 12vdc constant input   8 pin remote start harness
- ground - black to #H/2 black (-) chassis ground
- gwr input (-) - blue/white to #2 blue/white (-) 200ma 2nd status/red defogger output 24 pin viper harness

- ignition input (+) - pink to Pin #6 immobilizer harness
- door lock data - orange to Pin #4 canbus
- key data - ORANGE / black to Pin #2 immobilizer harness
- hood status output (-) - yellow to ??? #9 gray???
- security light output - WHITE/ red to Pin #5 immobilizer harness - car side
- security light input - WHITE/ black to Pin #5 immobilizer harness - harness side

The wiring looks good.

If going W2W, the ADS DL (+) Starter Input wire would be added to the Viper thick Violet (+) Starter Output wire.

The ADS DL (-) Hood Status Output wire would only provide a hood status if the TL has a factory install hood pin, typically
part of the factory alarm system.

Perhaps a bit of confusion with the Viper Engine Checking settings.

Tach Mode is running with an actual Tach signal. This signal can be hardwired from the ADS DL Tach Output or the vehicle
tach source ( F.I. or spark coil pack ). It can also come from the ADS DL via the D2D connection, with no hardwiring needed.
In Tach Mode you must still do a Tach Learn.

Virtual Tach Mode uses no Tach connection at all. It relies on vehicle voltage monitoring and an algorithm to decide on a
proper starter motor crank time. This can work OK in moderate climates but in very cold areas, Tach Mode is best.

Tach Mode will also provide "over-rev" protection and shut down a remote started engine if it starts to over-rev for some
reason. Tach Mode is mandatory with a manual transmission installation.

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Soldering is fun!

thanks Kreg. i'm still planning on trying the D2D when the cable arrives. i had already typed out the W2W as a back up in case needed but i figured i might as well go ahead and post it here for future reference in case someone else needs it.

for reference though are you better off running the ADS-DL tach output wire to the FI/Coil pack, or using the vipers tach wire to the FI/coil pack? also i was unaware you could get the tach signal from the coil pack, i had only knew of getting it from the FI or the ecm.

I would go with the ADS DL supplied Tach signal, either D2D or hardwired. It is very reliable. Running a wire out into the engine compartment can lead to issues if not does properly.

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Soldering is fun!

just wanted to give an update. got everything switched out today with the new 4x06 and idatalink ads-dl. pairing the new remotes was a little bit of a pain, but once i got them paired and got the viper and idatalink programmed it remote started on the first attempt. glad to finally have everything done and working as it should. big thanks to Kreg for all the help along the way, and also smokeman for helping find a new brain and offering to test my old one. going to send the other 4x06 off to smokeman on monday for him to check out.