Printer Friendly Forum Posts - Factory Central Locking Motors At Rest, Toad RK30, 1998 Mitsubishi L300

Pull the door panel and test at the two actuator wires with your meter. Test for voltage first. If they don't have power, check for continuity to ground. That will tell you for sure.

Also, search "1041" in the downloads section. It's an old tech tip that explains door lock systems.

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My ex once told me I have a perfect face for radio.

That was a great piece of advice.Ive now established that the legs rest at ground.
Next is to establish whether the keyless entry module gives a positive pulse or a negative pulse,by using a test lamp.I'll update when I've done this.
Most of the wiring diagrams show three or five wires at the switch on the dash.On mine there are just four.+ve in,-ve in,and twoswitched wires to the legs of the motors resting at ground.There are no relays,just direct wired, switch controlled. But are they Negative or positive trigger? How do I find out please?

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Shaun

Having established that the motor legs are at ground when at rest,I am now questioning whether I am correct. I removed the switch from the dash and disconnected the connector block. Should I have left the switch connected to the wires?

The RKE module give a positive pulse and on the basis that the C/L system rests at ground I added two relays to convert both the lock and unlock outputs to negative trigger ,but nothing happens at all,now.Not sure where to go next.

Your help is greatly appreciated....

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Shaun

It's best to leave the switch, so you can test all wires in all states (at rest, at unlock, at lock).

What is the vehicle?

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My ex once told me I have a perfect face for radio.

Its a Mitsubishi L300 panel van.1998

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Shaun

As far asci can make out I have the four wire reverse polarity locking system...

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Shaun

That's what I was thinking.

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My ex once told me I have a perfect face for radio.

I need to do some serious testing to establish whether the factory locking is +ve or-ve trigger.The output from the keyless entry module is +ve.

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Shaun

If both actuator legs rest at ground, then one leg on each actuator would need to be opened and 12 volts applied.

Check the actuator wires and see which one gets power on lock and unlock.

https://www.the12volt.com/relays/relaydiagram49.html

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My ex once told me I have a perfect face for radio.

Thanks for that.
Both legs rest at ground.When I cut one of the blue wires to the actuators the whole switch stops working.Does that mean they are a negative trigger?

If, as I suspect they are negative trigger,and if,as I also suspect that the output from the Keyless entry module is positive trigger I will need six relays to make this work? The first two,to change polarity of the keyless module output, and the second four as shown on the 4 Wire Reversal Relay Wiring Diagram or do I just use diagram D? I am so confused,now.Maybe the five wire alternating 12v Positive is the one as I intend to keep the existing switch?(I'd still need four relays)

YOUR HELP IS MOST DEFINITELY REQUIRED...

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Shaun

I didn't mean to cut one of the wires (at least not yet). I meant that the switch probably does this for you. Probe the actuator wires with your meter set to read DC voltage. Press and hold the lock switch while watching the display on your meter. It should read either +12 volts or -12 volts. (Once you see the reading you can release the switch.) If it read +12 volts, the wire with the red probe needs to see 12 volts on lock. If it read -12 volts, the opposite is true.

Unlock the door. Now, cut whichever actuator wire showed +12 volts on lock. Feed +12 volts directly to the actuator side of this wire (not the side that leads back to the switch). It should have locked. If it did, you can do the same for unlock (cut the other wire and feed +12 volts directly to the actuator side).

Assuming this worked, continue with the type D reverse polarity diagram.

Just to be clear, the keyless entry module you refer to is what you are trying to add, correct? And it has a positive output? If yes to both, continue with the above advice.

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My ex once told me I have a perfect face for radio.

In reply to your final question,it is a Keyless entry module that I am trying to add.And it does have a positive output.

So today,I followed your advice given above, and I'm pleased and relieved to report that the remote keyless entry sprung to life.It locked and unlocked.

There are two things,here though. 1)The switch on the dash is no longer operative. Is this what you would have expected?

2)The locking and unlocking are weaker than when wired directly through the switch.Is this normal and can I improve it?

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Shaun

I should have been more specific. The switch side of the wires you cut should go to the same terminal as the keyless entry outputs (where it says "from switch").

Did you ground the wires for the relays yourself, or did you use the wires from the switch for ground? Are the wires you used for your relays smaller than the wires to the factory switch?

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My ex once told me I have a perfect face for radio.

.The two wires on the relay marked +ve from switch I took to mean the trigger wires from the module.,so the two cut wires from the switch are not currently connected to anything.
I grounded the relays separately from the factory switch connections.
The wires used for the relays are the next size up from the wires to the factory switch,especially the +ve which may even be two sizes up.Neither the positive or ground have been connected at the switch terminals.

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Shaun

You can connect your keyless entry outputs with the switch outputs on the same relay terminals. That way the switch will work in conjunction to your keyless.

You can always add a jumper from your relay grounds to the ground from the switch and see if that helps at all (since you say it seems weak).

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My ex once told me I have a perfect face for radio.

I have connected the previously cut wires from the switch to the trigger wires from the keyless entry module.(I didn't know that I could have two trigger wires on a relay.)This means that the door locks connected via switch work better than ever. However,when I press the remote for the keyless entry a fuse blows on the wire to the module,suggesting to me that I am not using the correct wires yet.

You Wrote " Unlock the door. Now, cut whichever actuator wire showed +12 volts on lock. Feed +12 volts directly to the actuator side of this wire (not the side that leads back to the switch). It should have locked. If it did, you can do the same for unlock (cut the other wire and feed +12 volts directly to the actuator side)." Nothing happened when I did this..

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Shaun

Yes, you're right. It would blow a fuse. I should have drawn it out so I could trace it. The wires from the factory switch that trigger the relays rest at ground. Since the actuators are now grounded through the relays and not the switch, you can cut and isolate the ground wire from the factory switch.

Once you do that, everything should work fine.

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My ex once told me I have a perfect face for radio.

I will try that tomorrow and report back.
Thank you

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Shaun

Well,an interesting development with a strange outcome.

I removed the ground wire from the factory switch.This no longer shorted out and made the fuse blow. However, with a new fuse in place the keyless module operates the two relays and sends 12v to the actuator wires previously cut at the switch. But the actuators do not move. There are wires coming from the module which should be connected to either ground or +ve depending on certain conditions.

The actuators move when the factory switch is pressed in either direction (lock or unlock);

If i forward a copy of the keyless entry wiring diagram would that help? I didn't think it would be this complex....

Thank you for your continued help.....

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Shaun

So you've measured 12 volts output from the keyless module? Verify it's only output on one wire at a time (lock/unlock).

I'd be willing to look at the diagram/manual.

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My ex once told me I have a perfect face for radio.

I have measured +ve 12 volts at the lock and unlock wires which connect the keyless module to the wires cut from the switch to the motors. The wires you suggested I add from the other side of the switch(which I had previously left unconnected) to the relays(as triggers) stop the whole system working.So I disconnected these which has allowed the keyless entry side to work through relays.The switch no longer works,though.

I will endeavour to upload the wiring diagram later

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Shaun

Unfortunately I seem unable to change the manual/wiring diagrams from PDF format to something acceptable to the forum. Is there another way I can do this?

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Shaun

You can upload PDFs in the downloads section of this site, then link to it.

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posted_image

the12volt • Support the12volt.com

Please see Toad RK30 fitting/wiring instructions in the downloads section... I am currently using the first connection diagram, Positive trigger locking.

Thanks

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Shaun

Use the one on the bottom right.

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My ex once told me I have a perfect face for radio.

Thanks for that. If I use the diagram at the bottom of the wiring diagram It didn't work properly.

The only diagram which worked was the positive trigger locking ,but without the switch being connected.(ie the blue/red and grey/red just connected direct to the motor wires).

I simply cant find out how to incorporate the factory switch as well. The nearest diagram for this is 4 wire reversal,but this shows the alarm/lock output on pin 85 to be a negative output. Having established that the Toad RK30 gives a positive trigger I really don't know how to do this without blowing loads more fuses..

Your continued advice and support is much appreciated

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Shaun

I wonder if I caused you to damage something internally when the fuse blew earlier.

The bottom right diagram is still the correct diagram. (I would think the positive switching diagram would also work.) You say you tried but it didn't work.

Since this unit has built in relays, there should have been no need to add any external relays. We didn't know this initially.

Did you connect it between the relays you added and the actuators?

I haven't heard of Toad here in the states.

Have you verified the functions of the relay wires as listed by Toad (lock C, lock NO, lock NC, etc.)?

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My ex once told me I have a perfect face for radio.

How have you established that there are inbuilt relays?The only paperwork I have is what I have sent you.As a rule,I tended to fuse with a 10amp fuse to protect the circuits.The fuse fitted inline to the module was 15amp,and this never blew,so hopefully we are OK.I hadn't realised when I purchased the unit that information regarding this unit would be so hard to find.I haven't verified the functions of the relay wires as listed by Toad.I connected the unit before the external relays,using the two output wires lock/unlock from the unit as trigger wires.The external relays are fitted with diodes,to protect the module from flyback.Maybe I will just have to settle for the remote entry,leaving the factory switch disconnected..?
Hope this helps....
Toad are part of the Scorpion Automotive group,but maybe I should have bought differently.

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Shaun

The common (C), normally closed (NC) and normally open (NO) wires identify this unit as having built in relays.

A relay is nothing more than a switch controlled by an electromagnet (the coil). On a typical automotive relay, terminal 30 is common, 87a is normally closed, and 87 is normally open. Normally refers to the terminals' positions when the coil is not energized.

Knowing this, you can verify your keyless unit's wires. For example: Unenergized, the grey/red wire should have continuity with the grey/yellow wire. When you press the lock button on the remote, these wires should momentarily lose continuity and grey/red should have continuity with red/yellow (again, momentarily). Pressing lock should in no way affect the unlock wires.

The same test can be done for unlock. This way you can verify and make any necessary wiring changes due to typos/misprints in the Toad manual.

I'm not familiar with Scorpion, but perhaps that's just because I'm on the other side of the pond.

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My ex once told me I have a perfect face for radio.

That may well be the case,because we are on opposite sides of the pond!!.If it's possible to wire in the factory switch without blowing the fuses,that would be great,too.Im wondering if wiring in relays with diodes in would help?

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Shaun

Finally I have cracked it....

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Shaun

I'm still struggling to wire in my Toad RK30 to my Mitsubishi L300 panel van.The vehicle has a dashboard switch which has four wires in it. There are no factory relays that I can see or hear.The sliding doors have the usual two pin electrical connectors which make on closing the doors.Not sure about the tailgate as I cant see any connectors.

I uploaded the wiring diagrams and installation manual to your site as far back as April,2019.and was advised to use the five wire alternating 12V positive door locks relay wiring diagram. I am trying to wire this in using external relays despite there being on board relays(I believe).

The manufacturers instructions suggest using Lock and unlock normally closed before the wires from the switch are cut, and Lock and unlock common after the wires are cut (going to the motors). What I cant understand is how to connect these to the external relays, whether the lock and unlock common are the relay trigger wires or what would be on pin 87 as the 12 volt supply?

Any further help would be appreciated

TIA

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Shaun

Normally closed refers to relay terminal 87A. Common refers to 30.

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My ex once told me I have a perfect face for radio.

Thanks for that.

It seems that there are relays onboard the module, and that the wires that I cut between the switch and the modules should be wired with the switch side wires going to the lock and unlock normally closed side of the onboard relays, and the outgoing wires from the module going direct to the actuators. I'll try tomorrow and see if that helps...

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Shaun

Well I have now tried all the options open to me, and it would appear that as the module has relays onboard I have gone back to using this approach. Interestingly though, the motors are still weak and slow when wired through the keyless module, but work at a decent speed when switched by the dashboard switch. It doesn't seem to make any difference whether I use external 5 pin relays with the high current supply the results are the same.(using the five wire alternating wiring diagram)

Although it " works" am I missing something or is the norm that the keyless entry modules aren't as powerful? I just don't know how to remedy this, if indeed I can. Would a 5 wire door actuator make any difference? (I don't want to open the front doors with the keyless)
TIA

Shaun

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Shaun