2008 Hummer H3, ADS AL-CA

Needing some assistance with troubleshooting my install of an AutoStart AS2484TWS w/ADS AL-CA module into a 2008 Hummer H3. Install went well as per ADS GM4 Type 3 guide w2w, AL-CA seemingly programmed properly, lock/unlock working but having issues with the vehicle not cranking. Vehicle will r/s fine if key is in ignition (off position), and can also r/s takeover if vehicle is started with key. Have double checked all wiring, tried module programmed with both ADS and DBI firmware.....possibly vehicle not seeing proper resistance value from AL-CA? I'm a bit lost at this point, any ideas/input much appreciated....Al

Sounds like the W2W protocol is not working properly with the AS module and the iDatalink module. You have to change the protocol in the AS module to accept an ADS product. It's default to Directed bypass modules. Also, did you use the black 4 pin connector for the ADS module or did you use the red 4 pin connector ?

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Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA

Morning Jeff...may well be my mistake, had thought that the protocol setting in options menu only applied to D2D, will try that. Also GWR, 12v, and ground are wired into black 4 pin plug as per GM4 instructions....many thanks for the quick response! Al

Al, It's definitely the immobilizer not working properly. The GM4 platform is a PITA and just make sure that the diodes are facing the right way as well as you will need to make sure the tach signal is a strong signal as well. The ADS module needs to know it's in W2W mode ( 2 flashes at initial program stage ) and the WHITE wire from the AS needs go to to the BLUE/WHITE wire at the 4 pin connector at the ADS module.

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Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA

Thanks...working on it this afternoon. AL-CA is definitely in w2w mode and white wire on AS 12 pin connector connected to blue/white at 4 pin black ALCA plug. Will check tach signal, change AS setting in mode 4 function 4 to option 1 (ADS) and report back....Al

Still no luck on this.....reflashed ALCA and reprogrammed, reset AutoStart module (programmed ADS bypass option) and discovered when setting it up again that it won't learn tach (get the 4 light flashes confirming entry into tach learning mode, but no 5 flash confirmation when running and holding brake pedal). I am tied into injector wire (non-common color) and when I measure AC voltage there it seems awful low at idle.....well below 1.0v (about 0.2) and rises to about 5v when rpm rises. Tried tach learning on both low and high threshold...no luck. Other than that, as before locks work....truck will r/s with key in ignition and am able to takeover after starting with key. Thanks for any advice....Al

Is this from a cold start, or while the engine is already warm?

Have you tried an ignition coil?



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My ex once told me I have a perfect face for radio.

Thanks geep….this is from a cold start. Yep, took a reading from #1 cyl ignition coil also....every bit as weak! Unless I'm not using my DMM correctly (set on AC volts 20 range) black to ground, probe wire in question with red. Wondering if the "no crank" condition is a result of not seeing ACC drop out...don't know if lack of learned tach could be linked to this? Al

Al, does your DMM measure RPM ?

Also, if I remember properly on the GM4 platform, make sure that you program the bypass with the door closed and count 1.....2.....3 ( giving yourself at least 1.5 seconds between each position of the cylinder while programming )

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Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA

No, my DMM does not have the capability to measure rpm. I get what you're saying about the timing on programming the ALCA....definitely was 3 seconds on each of the 4 positions, but may have been much quicker than 1.5 in between, will try that tomorrow. Also, been programming with the door open as stated in GM4 instructions (close then re-open driver door to wake databus)…thanks for the ideas, starting to think I may have to go the relay/resistor method....Al

You have to open and close to wake up BCM, but try to program with doors closed tomorrow.

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Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA

Will do Jeff, thanks for your time on this.....still wondering about this lack of tach programming, maybe should just disconnect and go voltage sense? Al

No luck with programming with doors closed.....seems like I've created another problem after trying a reset on the AutoStart. The module seems to be locked up, led on the antenna flashing rapidly, can enter into and out of valet mode with ignition key procedure but won't respond to remotes after programming them (although the remotes act like they've paired properly). Also can't reset module anymore, will enter programming mode with hoodpin but wont issue 8 flashes with repeated input from brake pedal. Al

Further to my above reply.....unit seemingly stuck in remote programming mode. Status led on antenna continues to flash rapidly after going through remote programming, instead of going off with final push of antenna button. Remotes confirm successful pairing, but module does not confirm receipt of any commands from them. Is there such a thing as a hard reset of the brain for Directed products? Al

This may not do anything, but I've had luck disconnecting unplugging everything and jumping the constant and ground pins together.

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My ex once told me I have a perfect face for radio.

Thanks geep, worth a shot at this point....assuming you mean one of the 12v constants on main 6 pin harness to ground pin on 5 pin harness? Al

Tried your suggestion geep….no luck, module remained in a "locked" state with the status led on the antenna flashing rapidly. Swapped in another known good module, antenna, remote combo that I had (also AutoStart, so harnesses the same). Powered up fine, learned remote and programmed options.....re-programmed ALCA and tried r/s. Unit powers up ignition/accessory, accessory drops out temporarily, but doesn't crank.....stays powered on as if it's running for a short time and then shuts down, does this 3 times. Passlock light on the whole time unit is powered up so I think it's definitely not getting the correct resistance value from the ALCA. Everytime I reprogram the ALCA, it seems to go as it should, 3 seconds in each of the 4 key positions and then back to run.....light on ALCA at this point cycles quickly between green and red finally going green for a couple seconds and then off. During the r/s routine, when it thinks vehicle is running....light on ALCA flashes green in groups of 3. With key sitting in ignition at off, it will remote start fine with no passlock light so again I'm certain this resistance value is the missing part of the puzzle! Also tried an AL-DL module I had around programmed with same firmware....just to make sure it wasn't the ALCA that was the problem. Behaved exactly the same after programming any advice on where to go from here appreciated....Al

I think I remember something about Passlock2 problems with these vehicles
being real finicky about where the bypass module got its' ground from.
Being as you are going W2W, connect the ADS Ground input to the vehicles
Passlock2 ground reference wire.

Do a Factory Reset on the ADS bypass module, set the W2W Mode and try
programming again with the 3 seconds waits at each step. I used to use
an ADS DL on these vehicle with good results. Haven't done one in a while.

For your Tach issue, that seems to be a R/S problem. I typically use
Compustar umits and they seem to be able to detect pretty weak Tach signals.
Not familiar with the AutoStart units as they are most available in Canada.
Being as the ECM controls the engine crank and starting, I would typically
run in Tach Mode or with a Fixed Crank Output of 1 second and let the
vehicles ECM handle the rest. I'm not a fan or Virtual Tach or Voltage
monitoring.



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Soldering is fun!

Thanks kreg, I'll give that suggestion a try....any ideas on possibility of hard resetting the original module I had installed? Is there such a thing on Directed r/s systems? Tried plugging it in again last night and it just immediately reverts to the rapid flashing status led as if it were in remote pairing mode and can't get it to exit.....Al

If you're talking about the ADS AL-CA, you can re-flash it with the GM4 firmware
to clear / reset it. Or even flash another firmware on it and then back to GM4.
Just beware that iDatalink keeps track of the number of times a module is flashed
and the different firmware's loaded. There is a limit that triggers some concerns
from them. I used to do a lot of on-site installs and would always flash a backup
bypass module to bring with me and if I always kept the same bypass module as a
backup it would get flashed too many times for their liking.
I've never had any issues using either DBI or ADS flavor of firmware when going
W2W. My usual routine is to do the Firmware flash, then a module reset, then
the Installation Mode selection and lock in and finally the vehicle programming
procedure. I have a +12V power supply with alligator clips to do that process
on the bench as I prep the R/S system prior to install.

If you're talking about the R/S unit doing a rapid flashing status, probably
can't help much there. I'm not familiar with AutoStart. My typical brands
are Compustar and Prestige.

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Soldering is fun!

Thanks again for the response....yep, talking about the r/s module, was just curious as to whether anyone had come across something with Directed stuff to recover from a "stuck" brain! Will try your suggestion re the ground on the ALCA and report back, Al

RESETTING THE MODULE
WARNING! By resetting the module, all programmed values are erased
i.e.: tach, transmitter as well as
programming options. The programming options are returned to their default values.
1. Enter programming Mode (page 3).
2. Once having reached the programming mode, quickly press and release the brake pedal until the parking
lights flash 8 times.

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Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA

Got it Jeff, thanks.....problem is with the brain stuck the way it is I can certainly get into programming mode with flashing the hoodpin (led on solid for 20 sec.) but it won't acknowledge any input from the brake pedal so no 8 flashes. The transmitter pairing/programming part is what it seems to be stuck on, with this unit it requires pushing the antenna button once, then holding until the led begins to flash rapidly.....release, then go through the process of pairing the transmitters and finally one final push on the button to exit pairing. It's this part of the programming that it's stuck in....won't acknowledge anything except going into/out of hoodpin programming, or into valet mode....Al

Did you confirm that the brake HOT side still has power ? Do you have power at the brake switch when pressed ?

If all else fails, just jumper a wire from (+) to the brake input wire on the AS unit until you hear the module click.

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Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA

Managed to get the r/s module functioning again. I'm not entirely sure how this was achieved in all honesty, but I think Jeff called it with having me check for intermittent 12v feed at the brake pedal (hot side & switch)…...thanks Jeff! Still, after this, not able to get the engine to crank...kreg had mentioned re-locating the ALCA ground to the Passlock ground reference wire but I'm having trouble locating exactly where that wire would be. The passlock harness only has 5 wires, none of which are ground.....can anyone point me in the direction of where the Passlock ground reference wire may be? Al

I'm wondering about the fact that the H3 will R/S with a key in
the ignition switch but not turned. Usually you see the Passlock2
resistance and voltage drop with the key at START. That R/S test
with just a key in the ignition switch but in the OFF position is
for transponder chip issues.

Can you still get the H3 to remote start with the key in the ignition switch?
If yes, try this : Don't inset the key but hold the head of the key
right at the switch key slot and try a R/S.

Next try this :
Wrap the key head with about 5 layers of aluminum foil. Try to start
the H3 with the key. If it doesn't start, leave the key in the ignition switch
in the OFF position and try a remote start. If it doesn't start, that
means your issue is probably with the PK3 part of the immobilizer system
and not the Passlock2. Your key has a + sign within a circle, right?


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Soldering is fun!

Yes, vehicle still remote starts fine with key in the ignition system but not turned...at work today kreg, but will try those suggestions when at home this evening. I hadn't noticed whether the key had that symbol on it, but I do recall the module surrounding the ignition cylinder key entry point having "PK 3+" on it. After your last post, I think I'm lacking some understanding as to how this system works....didn't realize that there were two variables here (Passlock 2 and PK3)! Al

kreg, vehicle will not r/s (crank) with head of key held right at key slot.....also, with key head wrapped in aluminum foil vehicle will not start with key, nor will it r/s with key in ignition at "off". Key blades have 3+ stamped just below head. So it seems everything you suspected was correct..Al

Being as the R/S can control the locks and start the H3 when a PK3 transponder
chip is in range of the antenna, it's definitely something to do with the PK3
portion of the install. PK3 is pretty to easy to bypass via "key in the box"
method. PK3 keys are cheap and programming a spare is easy but...

Being as you are in Canada, try following the Type 4 wiring diagram. The only
difference is the Ground connection going to the ADS AL-CA 10 Pin connection.
Just use the Purple/Black wire to ground instead of the Purple/Yellow that the
Type 3 diagram shows. Also double check the ADS AL-CA Ignition and Accessory
sense connections. Do a Factory Reset on the bypass module, then lock in the
two blink W2W mode and then the actual vehicle programming. Ensure the LED
gives the correct responses at Step 6.

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Soldering is fun!

Nailed it kreg! Ignition and Accessory inputs checked fine, moved ground input on ALCA from purple/yellow to purple/black, programmed and started right up first time via remote! So for those following this thread in the future, 2008 Hummer H3 (Canadian) needs to be treated as a 2009 model install (Type 4) for ALCA install/programming which makes it the same as the Canyon/Colorado....slightly different wiring for the Canadian vs the U.S. model. Thank you very much guys (kreg, Jeff and geep) for all the help on this over the last few days....hopefully in the future I'll be able to repay the favor to one of you with some knowledge that I may happen to have.....Al