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2003 Acura CL, Finding Wires for Proper Function

Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Security and Convenience
Forum Discription: Car Alarms, Keyless Entries, Remote Starters, Immobilizer Bypasses, Sensors, Door Locks, Window Modules, Heated Mirrors, Heated Seats, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=146549
Printed Date: March 29, 2024 at 3:30 AM


Topic: 2003 Acura CL, Finding Wires for Proper Function

Posted By: canadian_ef
Subject: 2003 Acura CL, Finding Wires for Proper Function
Date Posted: November 12, 2020 at 8:46 AM

Hi there,

I'm installing a Viper 4816V (and 556UW immobilizer bypass module) in my Acura CL (2003, Type S manual, key to start)

I have been referencing the wiring diagram here: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=29894

I have most wires connected, but am lost at the alarm disarm/arm wires. I have installed a command start before, but I have never had to interface with a factory alarm before.

As my RS FOB doesn't have unlock/lock buttons, I'd like to maintain my factory FOB functions and not set up the alarm portion of the RS.

According to the diagrams I've found, I am to connect the alarm arm/disarm wires to the factory door lock wiring. If I do that, will this cause the RS to unlock my doors during remote start? Will it lock after the car starts?

My car is manual, do I also need the "remote start activation wire" connected as per the manual here, or is it optional? Where would I connect it? https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1355288/Viper-4811v.html?page=35#manual

The last time I installed a remote start, it was in an 89 Civic, and I used an automatic RS that used the e-brake as the only ground trigger to allow it to start, so this is a fair bit more complicated than I anticipated.

I appreciate any help you guys can give me.



Replies:

Posted By: i am an idiot
Date Posted: November 12, 2020 at 10:43 PM
Power Lock      black/blue (passenger door key cylinder)      -      in front of passenger fuse box, gray 22 pin plug      Directwire      
Power Unlock      orange (passenger door key cylinder)      -      in front of passenger fuse box, gray 22 pin plug      Directwire      
Lock Motor      white/red      5wi      18 pin grn plug, driver fuse box           
Driver Unlock Motor      yellow      5wi      18 pin grn plug, driver fuse box           
Passenger Unlock Motor      lt. green/red      5wi      passenger MUX module           Notes
Factory Alarm Arm      arms with lock                     
Factory Alarm Disarm      disarms with unlock                     




Posted By: iskidoo
Date Posted: November 12, 2020 at 10:48 PM
It says disarm without unlock is blue inside Driver’s Door At Key Cylinder or may also be found at the security module underneath the passenger seat.
Use the Green/Black: (-) FACTORY ALARM DISARM OUTPUT from the Viper.

https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/file.asp?ID=1469

-------------
Steve G




Posted By: canadian_ef
Date Posted: November 12, 2020 at 10:58 PM
I was probing wires all night trying to find the right ones. I ended up routing the lock/unlock wires from the driver's door to inside the cabin, thinking I could use those to trigger arm/disarm. They are both activated by ground, and the alarm sends a ground signal to disarm prior to start. There is an option to arm after start too.

I'll try the blue wire first and if I can't find it or it doesn't work then I'll do my idea as above.

The other thing is, I have two clutch safety switches it seems... I'll need to do some more research.




Posted By: iskidoo
Date Posted: November 12, 2020 at 11:01 PM
White/Blue: (-) REMOTE START ACTIVATION INPUT
This input wire is used to manually activate/deactivate the remote start sequence by pulsing it to ground (programmable for single or double pulse activation/deactivation). It can also be used to activate the Turbo Mode feature of the system if attached to a ground through an optional momentary switch and the Timer Mode feature is enabled (see Activation Pulse Count or Turbo Mode in Feature Menus for more details). Additionally it can be used to activate Manual Transmission Ready Mode when connected to ground through an optional momentary switch.

So you can use a button that you mount in your dash to activate the remote start or just press the Viper FOB to activate so yes it's optional. Please make sure to connect the door trigger and parking brake though to properly set up the ready(reservation) mode on your manual transmission vehicle. If your civic was only using the parking brake to enable a remote start then it wasn't very safe. The reservation setup insures a safe remote start each time.

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Steve G




Posted By: iskidoo
Date Posted: November 13, 2020 at 12:34 AM
canadian_ef wrote:

The other thing is, I have two clutch safety switches it seems... I'll need to do some more research.
Follow the Black/White starter wire from the steering column to the clutch relay. There should be a thick Black/Red wire that goes directly to the starter motor. You can connect the units starter output to it.

-------------
Steve G




Posted By: canadian_ef
Date Posted: November 13, 2020 at 9:28 PM
I hooked up the power and ground to the RS brain today to try and program some features. I'm learning now that I can't program any features using the single button remote. Does anyone know of a cheap 4 button viper remote that will work?

Could anyone help me verify this wiring for the brain too? I planned on setting up anti-grind. I am referencing the install in my Civic (5303 viper) to make this work, but I'm hitting roadblocks and the stress is getting to me. List of wires here: https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1355288/Viper-4811v.html?page=31#manual

Main 6 pin harness
1 RED          (+)12V DC CONSTANT INPUT                              Fusebox 12v constant
2 BLACK          (-) CHASSIS GROUND                                   Chassis ground
3 BROWN          (-) 200mA HORN HONK OUTPUT                              Not needed
4 WHITE/BROWN     PARKING LIGHT ISOLATION WIRE - #87a NORMALLY CLOSED of onboard relay     Not needed
5 WHITE     PARKING LIGHT OUTPUT- #30 COMMON of onboard relay                    To parking lights
6 ORANGE     (-) 500 mA (GWA) GROUND WHEN ARMED OUTPUT                    Not needed?

Aux 24 pin harness
1 PINK/WHITE     (-) 200mA IGNITION 2/FLEX RELAY OUTPUT     Not needed
2 BLUE/WHITE     (-) 200mA 2ND STATUS/REAR DEFOGGER OUTPUT     Optional
3 RED/WHITE     (-) 200mA TRUNK RELEASE OUTPUT          Not needed
4 BLACK/YELLOW     (-) 200mA DOME LIGHT OUTPUT          Not needed
5 DARK BLUE     (-) 200mA STATUS OUTPUT               To immobilizer bypass
6 WHITE/BLACK     (-) 200mA AUX 3 OUTPUT               Not needed
7 WHITE/VIOLET     (-) 200mA AUX 1 OUTPUT               Clutch safety switch bypass
8 ORANGE/BLACK     (-) 200mA AUX 4 OUTPUT               Not needed
9 GRAY          (-) HOOD PIN INPUT (N/O or N/C)          To physical hood pin
10 BLUE*     (+) or (-) FACTORY HORN INPUT (Use Jumper to set polarity)     Not needed
11 WHITE/BLUE          ACTIVATION INPUT          Not needed
12 VIOLET/WHITE**     TACHOMETER INPUT          To tach signal at gauge cluster
13 BLACK/WHITE***     (-) PARKING BRAKE/E-BRAKE INPUT     To brake light at gauge cluster
14 GREEN/BLACK     (-) 200mA FACTORY ALARM DISARM OUTPUT     To under-seat security module
15 GREEN**     (-) DOOR INPUT (N/O or N/C)          To door signal at gauge cluster
16 EMPTY     ------------------------------------     
17 PINK          (-) 200mA IGNITION 1 OUTPUT          Unsure if needed?
18 VIOLET**     (+) DOOR INPUT                    Not needed
19 VIOLET/BLACK     (-) 200mA AUX 2 OUTPUT               Not needed
20 BROWN     (+) BRAKE SHUTDOWN INPUT          To brake pedal switch
21 VIOLET/YELLOW     (-) 200mA STARTER OUTPUT     Not needed
22 GRAY/BLACK     (-) DIESEL WAIT TO START INPUT          Not needed
23 ORANGE     (-) 200mA ACCESSORY OUTPUT          Not needed
24 GREEN/WHITE     (-) 200mA FACTORY ALARM ARM OUTPUT     Not needed

Ignition harness 8 pin connector
1 RED/BLACK     (+) FUSED 12V ACCESSORY/STARTER INPUT                    12v constant
2 PINK/BLACK     (+) FLEX RELAY INPUT #87a key side (if required) of FLEX RELAY     cut starter wire, connected to key side
3 PINK/WHITE     (+) IGNITION 2/FLEX RELAY OUTPUT #30 of FLEX RELAY          Not needed
4 RED     (+) FUSED 12V IGNITION 1 INPUT                              12v constant
5 VIOLET     (+) STARTER OUTPUT                              Fusebox side starter wire
6 ORANGE     (+) ACCESSORY OUTPUT                              Tie in to accessory power
7 RED/WHITE     (+) FUSED 12V IGNITION 2 / FLEX RELAY INPUT #87               12v constant
8 PINK     (+) IGNITION 1 INPUT/OUTPUT                              Tie in to ignition power

Not using the rest of the small harnesses that come with.




Posted By: canadian_ef
Date Posted: November 15, 2020 at 7:33 PM
Big progress today. I forgot to plug in the included "neutral safety switch" toggle, so that's why my car wouldn't even attempt to remote start. I also didn't have the 2nd ignition hooked up. I am able to get my car to crank using the remote fob.

However

I cannot start my car with the key. The starter won't engage. If I unplug the ignition harness from the alarm brain and jump violet and pink/black, I can start with the key. I have no idea what's going on here. I'm assuming this is something to do with the "flex relay" but I can't see what.

Since I can't start my car with the key, I can't program the tach.

Any ideas?




Posted By: iskidoo
Date Posted: November 15, 2020 at 8:38 PM
Is the viper armed causing a starter disable condition?

-------------
Steve G




Posted By: canadian_ef
Date Posted: November 16, 2020 at 8:17 AM
no, viper is not armed. I have no way to arm it with the single button remote.




Posted By: canadian_ef
Date Posted: November 16, 2020 at 9:53 AM
I found the official wiring schematics from Honda and they have different wires listed for the ignition harness.

https://cardiagn.com/body-electrical-99-03-tl/

My CL is the same as a 2003 TL. Same electrical, just a 2 door instead of 4.

Wht/blk Accessory
Wht 12v constant
Blk/yel ig2
Yel ig2
blk/wht starter

I'll spend some time verifying these wires, but I think with how uncommon this car is, the wiring diagrams on here might be wrong maybe? Is that possible?




Posted By: canadian_ef
Date Posted: November 16, 2020 at 1:45 PM
OK I have verified my ignition harness.

Yellow is ignition 2. OFF with no key, ON during ign1 and ign2 positions with key
White/black is accessory. OFF with no key, ON during ACC position with key, OFF during ign2

so my ignition harness is set up like this.

1 RED/BLACK 12v constant (white)
2 PINK/BLACK key side of starter wire (blk/wht)
3 PINK/WHITE ignition 2 (12v at all key positions except OFF)
4 RED 12v constant (white)
5 VIOLET fusebox side of starter wire (blk/wht)
6 ORANGE accessory (wht/blk)
7 RED/WHITE 12v constant (white)
8 PINK ignition 1 (blk/yel)

It didn't solve my problem. I still can't start the car with my key, only the remote start.

Does anyone have info on how this "flex relay" triggers? I see it gives me 87a, 87, and 30. What would be the control signal? The way it is set up, in my head, doesn't make sense!

87a key side ignition
87 constant 12v
30 constant 12v

I was able to set it up like this on another command start. It allowed for anti-grind. Can I not use the onboard relay for anti-grind?

Am I better off starting a new topic?




Posted By: canadian_ef
Date Posted: November 16, 2020 at 3:49 PM
I was able to remote start my car today.

I did verify that I have the starter's key side and motor side set up properly. I am learning that the Viper instructions are a little misleading.

I was lead to believe that I can set up anti-grind using the onboard flex relay, like I had done in the past with the 5701 and Python 5303. Apparently I could do that because it was an alarm/RS combo which had starter kill included.

I will be installing a relay to set up anti-grind tonight. All that will be left is to set up the alarm disarm wire which I likely need a 4 button remote to set up the proper option, as it is set up to disarm with unlock only, and not with remote start. :( (Menu 2, option 1 default: with unlock)




Posted By: iskidoo
Date Posted: November 16, 2020 at 4:12 PM
I think you are confusing the starter output with the flex relay wiring from looking at your connections. The 2 are not internally connected to each other. They are separate outputs. The flex relay is like an external add-on relay but built in for ease of use. 85 and 86 are internal to the brain and 87, 87a and 30 are external to the brain. It's default behavior is as an Ignition function to use as a 2nd ignition output. Whatever you connect RED/WHITE (30) to will determine what is outputted on the PINK/WHITE (87) wire during remote start. It's either ground or 12v constant. You have constant on the red/white which will provide 12v on the pink/white which by default should connect to 2nd ignition of the vehicle. Now the flex relay can optionally be used as an accessory or in your case a starter output but only if you can change it in the settings from the default of ignition 2 output.

If you can't access programming them you should either use only the starter output and an add-on external relay for anti-grind or get a remote that allows you to change the flex relay settings and use that. I think you would be best though to use the flex output for Ignition 2 as it is currently setup that way. Also rejoining the cut starter wire and attaching the starter output to it by itself to see if that gets you back to starting with the key.

P.S. I just noticed in my email that you responded while I was working on typing this out. Ha. Oh well I'm posting anyway since I typed it out already. Glad you are getting there.

-------------
Steve G




Posted By: iskidoo
Date Posted: November 16, 2020 at 7:10 PM
So did you remove the PINK/BLACK wire from the key side of the Starter wire?

-------------
Steve G




Posted By: canadian_ef
Date Posted: November 16, 2020 at 9:44 PM
I was indeed confused on the flex relay. I removed PINK/BLK from the key side of the starter. If I join that and VIOLET together, I am able to remote start the car, and I am able to start it with the key.

I decided to try and install an anti-grind relay. I bought a simple relay and hooked it up like this diagram:

https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/uploads/A1E_cut_antigrind.bmp

I am wondering if the PINK/BLK is needed anymore.

I have it hooked up so PINK/BLK and the key-side ignition wire are joined together, then connected to terminal 87a. I don't think this is right, but some clarification would be neat. Right now, when I have my key at IGN, the car tries to start without pushing the key to the START position.

EDIT: I was able to fix this... PINK/BLK is no longer hooked up to the brain. Antigrind works. Car starts. Yay. All that is left is rear defog and the alarm disarm wire... wrap it all up and make it look pretty.




Posted By: canadian_ef
Date Posted: November 17, 2020 at 4:00 PM
I have now verified that no wires under the passenger seat will disarm the alarm by grounding

I am still trying to track down the alarm disarm wire. I have already ran wires into the driver's door, so I'll be testing wires there again...




Posted By: canadian_ef
Date Posted: November 18, 2020 at 8:55 AM
Alright. I'm done this install, or as done as it is going to get.

Things I have learned:

Alarm disarm wire is in the door, at the window switch. You have to tap in at the window switch. Not 12 inches away from it, not 2 inches away... it has to be directly at the switch, basically attached to the pin of the blue wire. When grounded, the alarm disarms, but doors stay locked.

OEM FOB will not unlock/lock doors during the remote start. This is by design, by Acura. When the car is running, Acura decided it is best that the FOB is disabled. Not ideal, but whatever.

The wiring for ignition is wrong in the wiring diagrams.

Correct wiring is:
WHITE - 12V constant
BLK/WHT - starter wire
BLK/YEL - Ignition 1
YELLOW - Ignition 2
WHT/BLK - accessory

Single button remotes suck. I would never recommend buying the 4816V for this reason alone. You will likely end up wiring lock/unlock anyways. I likely will someday soon.




Posted By: canadian_ef
Date Posted: November 25, 2020 at 9:30 AM
I am wanting to wire up the viper door lock/unlock outputs
the alarm puts out a 200ma ground signal to trigger the locks.

I have wired up power locks before using aftermarket actuators and relays. I am wondering if a relay is still required in this case. I have isolated the oem lock/unlock wires which are activated by applying a ground to the wire.

Would I still need a relay in this case? Would I just measure the voltage on the positive wire to determine if I can do this?

I'm really hoping I can just tie the lock/unlock wires from the viper alarm to the driver's lock/unlock switch on the door.





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