Many Many Questions
Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Security and Convenience
Forum Discription: Car Alarms, Keyless Entries, Remote Starters, Immobilizer Bypasses, Sensors, Door Locks, Window Modules, Heated Mirrors, Heated Seats, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=17111
Printed Date: May 14, 2024 at 9:03 AM
Topic: Many Many Questions
Posted By: unprofessional
Subject: Many Many Questions
Date Posted: August 03, 2003 at 9:15 PM
Victim: 2003 Ford Ranger, no power locks Wanted: "Radio on until door open", Power Door Locks (already have actuators), Keyless entry (hence the actuators), Alarm w/ glass break sensor Since I have a truck and no rear-sliding window the only way in is by breaking the glass or opening doors. So I figure I can do without a motion sensor, although I'm not entirely opposed to one if the price is right. Not really needing a starter kill since the truck has the Ford PATS and is supposedly "unstealable". I have never soldered anything before. So I am interested in non-solder install options. Questions: 1) Where is a good place to position a glass break sensor? I thought about having it in the center of the rear window (and so center of truck) but I am not sure if it would pick up all the windows. 2) I would like to do only one tap into the big fat wire running +12V to the ignition. I'd like this wiring to be able to handle a 30A draw over maybe 2-3 feet. 2a) Is 12 gauge good enough? 2b) Would poking a hole in the +12V line and wraping my tap wire around and covering with electrical tape and zip ties be enough to handle a 30A current draw? Keep in mind that if I was soldering it would probably end up being a not-so-great solder. 3) How much harder is a remote starter install vs. an alarm? (Like wire connections and stuff.) 4) If I were installing a remote starter I know I need to make a tach connection, can this be done with the tach wire running to the tach on my dash? Would tapping the wire mess up my dash tachometer? 5) Since I am planning on using 12 guage (or larger if needbe) for my power wiring, is 18 guage enough for the rest? (door triggers, ground, door actuators, relays, etc.) I'd really appreciate some answers from all you pros. :) If anyone has some good / bad experiance with either CrimeGuard 745i3 or the Commando alarms I'm interested in that too.
Replies:
Posted By: jrilla
Date Posted: August 04, 2003 at 12:56 AM
Solder your connections.
The only wires a Remote starter requires that an alarm does not, are the Accessory wires (you have 2), the tach wire which you mentioned (your vehicles should be fine to grab the instrument cluster wire. If you go with one of the Commando 2 way units, you dont need the tach unless you want to hook it up, since it works great without it) and in your case the starter wire since you dont want to use a starter kill. Overall it is entirely worth your time and money to get a combo. I sold a guy a Commando FM760 for his Ranger and he loves it. I have one in my own vehicle and they are great units. You can buy a glass break sensor and add on if you need to. I like the on board shock sensor on the Commando FM 760. I have not tested out the newest commando FM 870, but it looks like the main difference from the 760 is the multiple channel outputs which I find unecessary.
Thats my 2 cents, i am sure someone else can snswer some more of your questions.
Take a look at the manual for the Commando alarms to get an idea of what it will take to install.
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J Rilla
Owner/Installer
Posted By: unprofessional
Date Posted: August 04, 2003 at 5:43 PM
Okay well since you suggest soldering then how the heck do I solder wires together? Do you just get them close and glob some solder on or what? A little step-by-step would help a lot. Also would this get the job done: https://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=CTLG&category%5Fname=CTLG%5F011%5F009%5F007%5F001&product%5fid=64%2D2802 I did look through the Commando FM 870 manual after posting this and I just don't think the remote start is worth the extra $100 and my time. I'd probably end up breaking the fancy remote anyway. lol
Posted By: unprofessional
Date Posted: August 04, 2003 at 7:45 PM
Come on, someone has to know the answers to my questions. :( I decided on a Commando 601-S alarm. It's cheap and it has everything I need. :)
Posted By: unprofessional
Date Posted: August 04, 2003 at 7:49 PM
Oh yea.... 6) How do you connect diodes to wires? Do you just stick the diode wire into the stripped wire and solder? Such a connection seems like it would just fall off, but maybe I wrong.
Posted By: unprofessional
Date Posted: August 04, 2003 at 9:47 PM
More Questions for you guys (and gays) 7) Is it possible to use a relay or something to do a "stop and go" type of thing? I am wanting to set it up so I can hit a switch and take my keys out and keep my truck running. Then be able to come back to my truck and turn key back to "on" position and drive like normal and then turn key off and have truck shut off.
Posted By: jrilla
Date Posted: August 05, 2003 at 11:26 AM
That soldering iron works fine, but the butane ones are much better.
You need to solder the diodes to the wires. You can use crimp style connectors but I always solder.
the 601 is fine, but getting a combo with a remote starter is not adding much time or effort. The RS-560 is the same price. That way you will have stop and go mode too.
If you dont want a starter, then you can take a look at this diagram for a stop and go setup with relays. You will need a second Accessory relay and should fuse all of your power sources.
www.12voltinstallations.8m.com/
As far as your other questions go, I will be willing to answer any you still have.
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J Rilla
Owner/Installer
Posted By: chasesaccessori
Date Posted: August 05, 2003 at 11:39 AM
Ok here goes:
Answers
1) most vehical break in's are done through the side windows, so put your glass break sensor up in the dash by your led.
2)I crip every thing with absolutely no problems, so just use a big yellow butt connector to your 12v.
2a)12 g is good enough
2b)No! just crip and tape using 2)
3)Not that much harder, if your into the dash you might as well do it if your thinking about it.
4) I would go straight to the coil for a reliable connection if it were me.
5)thats fine.
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(owner/installer)
Chase's Accessories
Ridgecrest, CA
in business since 92
Posted By: jrilla
Date Posted: August 05, 2003 at 11:43 AM
As far as soldering goes: For factory wires that you are not cutting, use a razorblade to cut the insulation in 2 spots about a 1/2 inch to ans inch apart depending on the gauge of the wire. Then poke a hole through the center of the wire and stick your wire through and wrap it around so it doesnt fall. I typically secure the wire to the factory wire with a piece of tape so that it is where I need it to be before and after soldering. You want the solder to be on one side of the knot if you will, so that the wires can be taped parallel without having a huge ball of solder. That is somewhat confusing, but if you imagine soldering the wire to the factory wire in a T shape, it would be difficult to tape the wires together nicely. I always determine where the brain of the starter or alarm is going to be secured, then I cut the wires to length with a little slack.
Anyway. Then you heat your iron up and simply put the iron on the knot for a few seconds before putting the solder on it. If the iron is good and hot, then the solder will immediately melt and if you keep holding it there, the solder will suck into the knot and then you will have a lifelong connection. it is very easy, but I like I said it is much easier with a butane iron since there is no cord and they get hotter than the 30 watt iron you linked above. Those are best for working at a desk and woking with smaller and more sensitive equipment.
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J Rilla
Owner/Installer
Posted By: unprofessional
Date Posted: August 05, 2003 at 6:17 PM
So does the solder just "soak" into the wiring then? On the Commando FM 760 how big is the lcd remote? Does it take a beating pretty well? I have a lot of keys and stuff I carry around with me and I don't want to be breaking a $60 remote. That is really my only concern left about it since you answered everything else. :) I thought about a butane but since I am (hopefully) only going to be doing this once the extra cost isn't justified. If I get my connections done right I will probably put the iron up and never use it again. lol I went through a lot of the online manuals and since I can't get the stop and go to shutoff when the alarm goes off I decided against a relay setup. Thanks again for all the help. :)
Posted By: unprofessional
Date Posted: August 05, 2003 at 7:26 PM
Sorry to be so annoying, here are more questions relating to remote start: 8) The manual says that I need to make my connection to starter output on the key/ignition side of a neutral safety switch. Do I have one of those? Any idea where it might be? And is it just a relay? (So I know what it looks like.) 9) There is an output for Heater / AC. Do I need that? Seems like I could just have my heater switched on ahead of time and it would start with the truck. What does the remote start do with it that I would need this wire for? 10) How does a transponder bypass work? Does it copy the code from my key? Is there a possibility of someone using it to start my truck and drive off? 11) Might sound stupid but do the alarms have wires comming off of them or do I have to solder directly to the alarm? Pictures show no wires so I curious. 12) Alarm and Remote Start both say they have ground output for dome light. Can I just connect this to the GEM and get my dome light to come on? (Assuming I have negative door triggers like everyone tells me, I have yet to test it.)
Posted By: chasesaccessori
Date Posted: August 06, 2003 at 10:47 AM
Damn your annoying!
just kidding.
answers
8) Your starter wire from your ignition switch, if you cut the wire, the wire there talking about is the side that goes to the starter.
9) Yes! since you are not turning your key in the ignition to start the truck you need this hooked up to power the heater/ac.
10) basiclly you have it.
11) most alarms have a wiring harness that plugs into it. Rarelly do they have the wires permanently attatched.
12) Don't understand what you mean by GEM. Just connect to door pin (usually) or whatever your spec's tell you your dome light is.
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(owner/installer)
Chase's Accessories
Ridgecrest, CA
in business since 92
Posted By: unprofessional
Date Posted: August 06, 2003 at 10:06 PM
Okay 4 more questions and I'll leave ya'll alone (hopefully). 13) How big are LCD remotes? About the size of a normal remote? 14) Do they break or scratch easy? (I have lots of keys.) 15) Do the remotes have an antenna that needs extended to transmit such a long range? (Since there is a chance of me breaking such a thing.) 16) Where can I find me a transponder bypass that does not requre a key and works on my '03 Ranger? Most I've seen online say they only work on 2001 and earlier models OR they require me to go get me another key made. :(
Posted By: unprofessional
Date Posted: August 06, 2003 at 10:26 PM
Doh, I'm back. 17) Is a single glass break sensor enough to cover the whole truck?
Posted By: jrilla
Date Posted: August 12, 2003 at 2:06 PM
10. Technically, a good thief could use any bypass module to bypass the car's anti-theft system. All they would need to do is ground the wire that goes to the module from the alarm. It is not very likely though I bet.
12. The 760 has a dome light output that you just need to use a relay and then tap into the door trigger wire which you will already have tapped for the alarm features. That remnds me that you need a bunch of diodes for that car when installing an alarm.
13. The transmitter is fairly large.
15. The antenna is not extendable.
16. I know of a guy who has a no key required module but it still requires you to put a coil around the key cylinder, so it really isnt much better than the universal modules. If you get a universal module, just file the teeth down so it cant be used in the ignition. Program it first though.
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J Rilla
Owner/Installer
Posted By: unprofessional
Date Posted: August 12, 2003 at 6:15 PM
OK so with the dome light output I need to send power to the light with a relay instead of just sending the ground into the GEM? That's too much work. lol So far I haven't been able to solder anything, got a post in General about that. Hopefully I'll get it figured out before next month. Thanks for the help. :)
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