CS 423, Arming Problems?

Installed a DirectStart CS423 in a manual transmission, 1995 Honda Civic... Both transmitters programed ok, the tach learned ok with a setting of "3", programmed bank 1 with all option #1 chosen... I think I'm entering ready mode correctly... The car continues to run after I remove the keys, and the parking lights flash once. When attempting to RS the car, the parking lights come on, turn off, then the lights flash four times and nothing happens. According to the manual, this flashing indicates the car is "Not in ready mode: hand break not on, door/hood open" My wiring to the handbreak is ok, and the ground in the hood is also ok.I'm at a loss as to what to do. All the wires have been tested and all voltages are correct. I do have some wires that are not in use: J2 pins 2,4,5,6,7. I'm not sure if that has anything to do with it. This is my first attempt at an install, so any input would be greatly appreciated! Thank you in advance for any help you can give!

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Andy
Colonie, NY

I don't know much about the unit but it sounds like from what you say your wires are correct, but are the polarities? You say the ground to the hoodpin is ok? It shouldnt be... the hood pin should only ground when the hood is up. A ground on this wire will kill the RS. What trigger are u using for the handbrake? I would check polarities, maybe its sensing the wrong type of trigger and deactivating the unit.

Did you make sure that you piggybacked the door pin wire & the hood pin together and diode isolated the two citcuits from each other ? Also, did you bypass the clutch properly ? Try remote starting it again, but this time stay in the vehicle with your foot on the clutch and see if it starts. Maybe you grabbed the wrong clutch wires.

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Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA

I am just repeating thing here, but you do need to make sure your e-brake wire gives (-) when engaged like mazdatruckin mentioned, and make sure your hoodpin and door trigger are both hooked up and diode isolated like Jeff said. I didnt see you mention that you hooked up your door trigger, so I thought that may be the problem. The door trigger need to be hooked up in order for you to be able to enter ready mode. So if you sit in the car to test the clutch bypass like Jeff mentioned, you will need to open the door and then close it again before shutting off the car. The unit needs to see ground on that wire momentarily and then nothing before entering ready mode. Good luck.

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J Rilla

Owner/Installer

Ok, so I tried the clutch bypass without any change. And to be honest, their isn't a dedicated wire in the system that I wired to the clutch... Should there be one?   Oh and to clarify, what's grounded: The hood does ground only when open, and the hand break grounds or is (-) when engaged... sorry about the confusion over that, but both of those are ok. I am further confused by the "door pin wire" that jrilla and Velocity mentioned... there isn't a specific door pin wire that I have noted. There is only one wire marked as a "Hood pinswitch/door trigger input" that I have connected to the switch in the hood... should that be for the door pin as well? Let me list the "extra" wires I have right now that are not in use, and let me know if this helps you help me (cuz lord knows I need it! )
Pin#2:(+) Connect to Ignition #2, 2nd igntion (6 amp max);
Pin#4:(-) Trunk Ouput (Sliding door or other option);
Pin#5:(-) Disarm Output / Defrost;
Pin#6:(-) Starter Kill (Starter Interrupt Relay);
Pin#7:(-) Re-arm 500 mA Negative Output;
According to the digram, these are "not required for start", but these aren't the best instructions in the world. So if these are "extra" do they need to be grounded or just left alone? Anymore input would be great! Hey, and a BIG THANKSto mazdatruckin, Jeff of Velocity Motors, and J Rilla for their input! You ROCK!


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Andy
Colonie, NY

Yup, you need to hook up the door pin wire to the to J2 # 14 . Look at the NOTE* on the bottom of the wiring diagram page of the CS423. Just make sure you use a 1N4001 1 amp diode and this should be more than sufficient for a diode.

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Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA

SCORE! I was able "test" the starter (using a very archaic method) as if the doortrigger wire was split to the hood AND the door switch... and what do ya' know... It WORKED! WELL... kindaworked. The system armed correctly, and when I attempted to RS, the car did turn on (which is a first), but the motor didn't turn over... I imagine that this is just a tach adjusment that is needed to get the car to turn over? But backing up, I still need to know how to wire this 1N4001 1 amp diode. Do I just wire the diode in series from a split hoodpin switch wire to the door trigger wire? You guys ROCK on this website!

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Andy
Colonie, NY

Oh and I think I answered the Diode Question... I found the diagrams, and I will have no problem hooking that up. My new problem is as I mentioned above: The car will not start... it turns on, but no start. The manual says I need to adjust the Tach Setting. I've attempted that, but still no luck. Any idea what the tach should be? Can be adjusted from 1-7 on the CS423. Was at 7, worked my way down with no change, and put the system into "engine over crank"... tips?

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Andy
Colonie, NY

What wire did you grab for your tach signal? You shouldn't have any problem starting your car. The tach adjustment is only adjusting crank time. You should be able to get away with a 1 or 2 is my guess. If your car cranks but does not start after 2 seconds then you might have a poor tach signal or missing an Ignition wire. You only have one to grab one Ignition wire though so maybe you switched the Ignition and Accesory wires, I doubt that is it though, probably the tach wire. You can always grab an injector wire, one of the uncommon wires. There are two wires at each injector, and one of the wires is the same at each injector, so grab the unique color at any one. Keep us updated.

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J Rilla

Owner/Installer

oh wait, you said that there was not start? you mean the ignition turns on and doesnt even crank the starter? or it cranks the starter but does not turn over? If it doent crank then you need to bypass your clutch switch. Try sitting in your car and pushing in the clutch. Dont forget to open and close the door to mkae the RS think you got out of the car. Be sure to set your tach adjustment back to 1 or 2 though. seven will hold the starter on for about 10 seconds... not good for the starter. Oh yeah and remember, any programming you need to do can be done by just opening the door instead of having to open the hood since they are on the same wire.

If you need to bypass the clutch, you need to test the polarity of the clutch switch. On the Toyota I just did, all I needed to do was connect the ground out when running wire to one of the wires at the clutch switch. There were only two wires and one was ground and when the clutch was depressed, the two wires were connected grounding the second wire. so I just connected the ground out when running wire directly to that second wire and it worked. You may need a relay to provide a better current and you may have a different type of switch so you need to test the switch. Use a DMM to test each wire before and after the clutch is depressed. Then you can figure out what you need to do. Post the results of the testing if you cant figure it out. Actually I bet plenty of people out there on this sitre know what polarity Honda clutch switches are. All of the old Hondas I have had didint even have a clutch safety switch, so I wouldnt know.

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J Rilla

Owner/Installer

Ok, to answer some of the questions... The tach wire I used is the one under the hood, next to the firewall, right in front of the driver's side of the engine compartment. I spliced into the wire right after a connection at that area. Now to clarify... when I RS the car, it's as if the key was turned all the way on, but there is no cranking of the engine or turn over.   I'm guessing that it probably is the clutch. Now about this clutch... which wire do I need to attach to the clutch switch to bypass it? I think you're saying I need to gound the same wire that I used in the hood and the door switch, but I'm not sure. Could ya' clear taht up for me? You guys are great! Def will be recommending and supporting this site!

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Andy
Colonie, NY

Other than the clutch, make sure that you have the starter wire on the motor side of the starter disable relay ( if applicable ).

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Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA

Very first: Make sure it is the clutch by sitting in the vehicle and depressing the clutch with your foot and go through the ready mode steps and then see if everything works. Then if it does, test the switch above the clutch to see how it wroks, then use a wire from the RS to either directly connect to one of the wires at the switch, or use one to trigger a relay that is connected to the switch. I mentioned that I used a (-) out when running wire which is the WHITE/ Green wire (J2-8) on a Toyota. If you have already used that wire you can use use a relay and a different output. Test the switch and get back to us.

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J Rilla

Owner/Installer

Well it isn't the clutch... I tried starting it all sorts of ways as suggested, but it doesn't make any difference. A light went on (in my head that is) when you mentioned the starter wire... I 'm not sure where I wired it... I betcha that's the problem! I'm running out right now to check... I'm hella excited! It makes sense to me know why it's not starting! Ok... I'll keep ya'updated, and I can't say enough thanks!

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Andy
Colonie, NY

DOWT!Ok, so I checked the starter wire hook-up... I had the Starter Output wire from the RS system spliced into the starter wire right before the strater wire enters the fuse harness. I assume that is WAY wrong based on what you've told me. Ok, so I've looked for the starter wire behind the fuse harness... that would be the motor side and after the relay right? Ok, so where is the starter wire? I can't find it behind the harness! Am I doing the right thing, looking in the right place, and looking for the same color wire? (black with white for Civic)

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Andy
Colonie, NY

What color is the wire you used on the car for the starter wire ? It should be BLACK/ WHITE and to test if this is the correct one, take a 12 volt jumper wire and while the car is out of gear ( IN NUETRAL ) momentarily touch the starter wire. If the starter engages, then you have the right wire. If it does not, then you have a problem with the wrong wire or a break in the starter wire ( which is unlikely if you can start it with the key ).

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Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA

GrrRrRrrrr... ugh... ok, so I did have the wrong wire. Found the correct starter wire and it STILL won't start or turn over! I'm absolutley sure that this is the starter wire because I did the "jump" test and it worked. The RS unit is telling me it's in "engine protection override"... I've tried doing what it says to correct that, but it still won't work. I guess it's back to this starter wire again. I've again spliced into the wire right before it enter the harness above the fuse box... is that the correct location? Does placing the wire after the harness make a difference?   Thanks for all your help! I may need mental help soon if I don't get this thing to work! (Is there a message board for that?)

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Andy
Colonie, NY

If the unit goes into ENGINE OVER_VRANK PROTECTION you have to reset the unit and reset the tach programming for the unit. Where did you get the tach wire from and what color did you use ?

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Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA

I've reset the unit a couple of times... It still seems to have no effect and reenters crank protection. When I attempt to RS after reset, the tach readjusts itself to 7. I got the Tach wire from under the hood, in front of the driver, right next to the fire wall. There is a "bundle" of wires that meet at the harness. I cut into the blue wire.

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Andy
Colonie, NY

There is a BLUE wire at the distributor that is on a 2 pin harness plug. Try this instead of the other wire & re learn the tach and try it again.

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Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA

Sorry for the delay... had to work... anywho, I finally moved the tach wire to the two pin harness at the distributor, attaching it to the blue wire. I relearned the tach and tried to RS... Still turns on, no turn over or crank, then shuts off and enters protection mode. Tried adjusting the tach... tried RS and the same thing happens again. Is my starter wire int he right place? I've spliced into the wire right before it enter the harness above the fuse box... is that the correct location? Does placing the wire after the harness make a difference?

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Andy
Colonie, NY

It seems to me that you are at a point where you need to test a few basic things. First test to make sure your RS is putting out 12v+ on the starter output when it attempts to remote start. right after you test that, leave your probes on the RS starter output wire and try to start the car with the key. see if you get 12 volts on that wire. If you do then you know that your RS starter output is connected to your vehicles starter wire. However, if you have installed an anti-grind relay, you need to make sure that you put the rs starter output wire on the starter side as opposed to the key side of the starter wire. One way to make sure that you are getting this right is to remove the anti-grind relay by cutting the wires and reconnecting the factory starter wire.

So to recap, if your RS is giving 12v+ when trying to start, and that same wire is getting 12v+ when the key is used to start the car, and you have aproperly installed anti-grind relay or you dont have one at all, then your RS should engage the starter. It wont necessarily turn the engine over, but it should try to start it.

So if what you say is true that the RS wil not attempt to crank the engine, then one of those three things needs to be fixed. Let us know how the testing goes.

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J Rilla

Owner/Installer

I STILL can't get this RS unit to work! I've been working on this for weeks, and this forum has been very helpful, but still no luck! I'm looking for some more advice in a last ditch attempt to avoid having to pay someone to put a whole different starter in... So here goes:

The starter is installed. The starter will "arm" correctly for a manual vehicle... meaning I can remove the keys, the car keeps running, and the starter will shut off the car and arm itself for RS. The starter will lock and unlock doors correctly. The only problem is that it won't start the car! When I attempt to RS, the car turns on, the dash lights up, the heater fan runs... then the starter shuts off the car and enters "protection mode". The engine never turns over. I have followed the instructions for this problem. The manual states that the problem is with the tach... I have moved the wire, I have relearned the tach, I've adjusted the tach... all ending with the starter entering "protection mode" and not starting the car!

I'm totally at a loss... I've tried all the advice that you guys (and gals) have graciously supplied without any success. Here is what I have hooked up on the unit... I'm hoping this will help!

J1-Pin 1: Attached to WHITE wire in ignition harness
J1-Pin 2: Attached to YELLOW wite in iginiton harness
J1-Pin 3: Attached to BLACK/ WHITE wire in igntion harness
J1-Pin 4: Attached to ground
J1-Pin 5: Attached to BLACK / YELLOW wire in ignition harness
J1-Pin 6: Attached to WHITE wire in ignition harness

J2-Pin 1: Attached to RED / BLACK wire at fuse panel
J2-Pin 2: NOT connected
J2-Pin 3: Attached to HAND BRAKE wire
J2-Pin 4: NOT connected
J2-Pin 5: NOT connected
J2-Pin 6: NOT connected
J2-Pin 7: NOT connected
J2-Pin 8: NOT connected
J2-Pin 9: Connected to GREEN / WHITE wire at taped 2 wire
J2-Pin 10: Connected to GREEN/ RED wire at taped 2 wire
J2-Pin 11: Connected to BLUE/GREEN wire at steering col
J2-Pin 12: Connected to GREEN/ WHT wire at break switch
J2-Pin 13: Connected to BLUE wire at distributor
J2-Pin 14: Connected to Hood Pin swtich and is SPLIT and connected to door swtich via a diode

I have NO relays... and I wonder if this is the source of the problem!

ANY input or advice would be appreciated! Thanks in advance!

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Andy
Colonie, NY

OK, It looks like you need to bypass the clutch.

before you do so, here is how you need to test if this the for sure the problem.

First of all. Start the car with the key, pull the ebrake, leave the car in neutral, press the start button and wait a second then pull the key out. (This is all what you have already done before) Now instead of getting out, just open the door for a few seconds and then close it. Now shut the car off with the remote and the lights should flash 2 times slowly. Now wait a few seconds and then push the clutch to the floor and press the start button on the remote. If the car starts, then you need to bypass the clutch.

Bypass the clutch by testing the wires at the switch above the clutch, then simulating what happens by using a (-) when running from the RS, or you may need a relay. I dont know how Honda clutch switches work, but here is an exaple of a possibility: 2 wires at the switch, one is constant ground and when the clutch is depressed the wires are connected, so to bypass all you would need to do is send a constant ground signal to that other wire during a remote start. You could use the GREEN / WHITE wire (which is the (-) out when running wire) if this is how your switch tests. You may need a relay if the GREEN / WHITE wire does not have a strong enough output. The switch may be entirely different than the example I just gave,in which case you would need to test it and simulate it.

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J Rilla

Owner/Installer

HOLY MONKEY! You were exactly right! I held the clutch in and the son of a gun started with NO problem! THANK YOU JESUS! (and J. Rilla, who right now IS my god)

I'm gonna go try to bypass the clutch with the advice you gave. If anyone has any ideas on how to bypass the clutch in a honda, let me know!

Thanks SO MUCH!!!!!

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Andy
Colonie, NY

I looked at some info that said it is positive, so you would need a relay. Test it to be sure though. One wire would be 12v+ constant, and the other would be 12v+ constant only when the clutch is depressed.

If it test like this, then set up a relay like so:

Pin 30 to the wire that reads 12v+ when the clutch is depressed.
Pin 87 and 86 to the wire that reads 12v+ constant
Pin 85 to the WHITE/ Green wire from the RS.



Ummmmmm............

Here is some BAD advice:
If you dont have a relay and really dont want to go get one, you CAN just permanently bypass the clutch switch by connecting the two wires at the switch. Like I said this is bad advice, but personally I wouldnt have a problem with doing this on my own car. I never would since it is so easy to bypass it with a relay, but it wouldn't phase me since the three manual transmission vehicles I ever owned never had a clutch switch from the start, and I never had any problems.

If you do this, just put a jumper wire across the two wires so that you can just cut the jumber wire if you ever uninstall the starter, or decide to install a relay.

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J Rilla

Owner/Installer

Ok, so I'm playing with the clutch... there are 2 switches... I know one is for the cruise. Anyway, I've been attempting to test the wires. I can't find a wire from either switch that gives me a constant 12v. I only found one wire, which is "pinkish orangish" like in color, and gives a 12v reading when the clutch is pressed.

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Andy
Colonie, NY

RIP RIP

It's dead... the Directstart CS423 is dead... I don't know what happened... I bypassed the clutch successfully, it was working great! I was SO happy... I was just getting ready to finalize all the wiring and the next thing I know, there is smoke pouring from the RS unit! Thank god I was a fireman! I'm just thankful it was only the RS unit and not my baby!

I don't know what happened... it just went up in flames... all this way and it ends like this!

Well I guess I have to give in and leave remote starters to all you professionals out there. I can't thank everyone enough for all the help you've given me!

I guess I'll just stick to installing radios as a hobby...

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Andy
Colonie, NY

What Happened? How did you bypass the clutch? You may be able to repair the unit with a little solder, but I doubt it, if you say the smoke poured out of the unit.    

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J Rilla

Owner/Installer

Nah... it's beyond repair. I'm good with electronics (despite recent events), and the board and two of the circuits were toasted. Big 'ol burn mark in the board.... I done fried 'er up good!   I don't know what did it... but again, thank goodness it was only the RS!

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Andy
Colonie, NY

That sucks. Did you tape up your unused wires together? Maybe they touched.

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J Rilla

Owner/Installer

I didn't... I was just getting ready to do that... so maybe that's what happened... I should have done that first I guess. I was going to ask what you did with the extra wires. I mean does this burning thing happen a lot? I'm thinking about trying it again, but I'm afraid I'm gonna torch my car!

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Andy
Colonie, NY

Put a piece of tape over each end of the wires. I would check all of your connections again to be sure there is nothing shorting out. I have never heard of that happening. Did it happen just out of the blue as you were handling wires? or did it happen as you pressed a button to send a start command, or lock, unlock command? It may be beneficial if it is possible to trace the epicenter of the burn to one of the wire, so you might get an idea which wire or wires caused it. It might be too fried to tell, but it is worth a shot. I would do it just so i could figure out what happened so I could make sure that it never happened again.

Anyway, good luck.

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J Rilla

Owner/Installer