Add-on remote start to existing alarm problems

hola,

Ok, I had this problem about 6 months ago, and couldn't solve it.
Now that I've found this site, I think I'll try again:)

My girlfriend has a '97 Civic. It has a Checkmate alarm (Model KD70S PC)
with keyless entry. I bought her a Bulldog add-on remote start (RS-82)
to add to the 3rd channel.

I installed it, and remotely started it and the alarm went off. D'oh #1.
So, I disarmed it first, and then started it. Good! But then the doors auto-lock,
and the keyless entry doesn't work anymore because the car is running. So, you have
to use the key, which stinks. D'oh #2.

I finally got a hold of the Checkmate company, who gave me schematics for the alarm,
and told me how to hook it up to the remote starter so the alarm would still be armed,
and the keyless entry would still work when the car was remotely started. So...after
I hooked up the wires, you could remotely start it and then use the keyless entry to
enter the vehicle, but the then alarm was still armed. So, if you messed with anything
(like the windows) the alarm would chirp. So in other words, the alarm didn't know the
car was running. D'oh #3. So I put it back the way it was (have to use the key).

Here's the schematics:

Here's the link to Diagram A of the Checkmate Alarm:
https://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid27/pfd6ed75a6bed6888c2abe660276adec9/fd781cc7.jpg

Here's the link to Diagram B of the Checkmate Alarm:
https://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid27/pb5d5f80a714574557e9338c2bdb5ada3/fd789e96.gif.orig.gif

Here's a link to a small diagram of the Remote Starter:
https://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid27/pe5ee8b948c71e06b172133619cc49841/fd789d31.gif.orig.gif

The guy from Checkmate said to hook up the yellow/black (ign input) wire of the
remote starter to the yellow wire of the alarm. That's what gave me the problemo.

So now that I've been reading posts on this site, I think I (obviously) hooked up
the remote start to the wrong side of the starter kill relay. (I didn't know it
even had it until now). So....if I hook up the remote start wire to the starter
side of the starter kill relay, I'm thinking the car can be remotely started
without disarming it? But now I'm confused if I do this, will I still have use
of the keyless entry? Will the car be armed when remotely started until I use
the keyless entry to enter? Ahh, the questions....

Any input would be great!!! Sorry this was so long.

Sorry I forgot to say what I would like it to eventually do:

I would like to be able to remotely start the car (without having
to disarm it first) and have the car stay armed while running (remotely running).
Then, I would still like to be able to walk up to it and use the
keyless entry to enter the vehicle (which I hope should disarm the
car as well so it's not armed while it's being driven).

Any ideas?  Thanks!

If you go back to D'oh #2 it seems the remote start and keyless entry were working fine but you were given another problem in that when you utilized your windows up/down feature it would cause your alarm to chirp. It seems you have a shock or radar sensor that is being triggered and causing you alarm to chirp. I am not to familiar with Bulldog, but , does that unit have a wire labeled shunt or two wires that might be called sensor bypass. If so, they need to be utilized. If not, there should be at leaset one wire that the Bulldog puts a ground out while activated. That wire could using diodes and or relays, bypass all your sensors and ignition wires to allow for proper operation.

Hmmm, I'm not sure if the Bulldog unit (the remote starter) has a shunt, or sensor bypass that you spoke of...I don't think it does.

It has a factory alarm shut down wire, but I don't think that's what you mean.
Plus, it's not a factory alarm.  Anywho, this a link to the manual for the
remote start if that would help.

https://www.bulldogsecurity.com/pdf/ModelsRS82_85.pdf

Plus, it was more than just the windows, it was everything because the car
was still in armed mode.  If I banged on the dash it did the same thing.

Thanks.

Good! But then the doors auto-lock,
and the keyless entry doesn't work anymore because the car is running

• On the alarm wiring diagram, cut the IGNITION input wire from the harness. This will no longer tell the alrm that the car is on and you can arm while the car is running. Do not cut if you require the toggling of the ignition for programming rather place a toggle switch for this connection and toggle off when programming is done and leave it after this in OFF position until you need to program again

I installed it, and remotely started it and the alarm went off. D'oh #1.
So, I disarmed it first, and then started it.

• See if there is a IMPACT DISABLE wire coming from the alarm system that you can ground out when running. If not then you will have to lower your impact sensitivity to accomodate the vibrations of the car when remote started.

The above will be allow you to remtoe start the vehicle, arm and disarm while running, have keyless entry and also have other functions like trunk pop and window controls.

QUOTE:  "The above will be allow you to remtoe start the vehicle, arm and disarm while running, have keyless entry and also have other functions like trunk pop and window controls."

Is it possible to have everything you said, except for allowing the car to be armed while running?

When the Checkmate tech told me to connect the yellow of the alarm (ignition) to the yellow/black
of the remote starter (ign input), that did the same thing that you said...that will no longer
tell the alarm that the car is running.  That is the problem, though, I would rather not have the
car arm while running.  Is this still possible?

I'm thinking in a way it isn't since the keyless entry also controls the arm/disarm.  I guess I'm just
trying to get it a like say a viper 550esp would act, where you can remotely start the car and it will
stay armed until you unlock (disarm) the doors.  Then you can drive without it being armed.

Re-connect the ignition wire from the Checkmate alarm. This is the wire that lets the alarm system know that the user is in the car and that the car is in use. What you may have to di is have two remote controls that will allow you to arm/disarm the alarm and one for keyless entry alone..... unless you have another spare AUX channel that you can run the door lock/unlock system on and use the arm/disarm of the alrm on the original channels ? Did I loose you ??

Yea, I didn't think this would be easy.  I guess the 2 devices just conflict too much.

I did reconnect that ignition wire, we didn't like the way it acted disconnected.
Yea, there's 2 other channels on the remote control.  Channel 2, though, I hooked up to
the remote start Aux Channel, so she could just use one remote.  And on channel 3 I hooked
up the trunk release.  But in theory (say I didn't have the trunk pop), I could split the
lock/unlock from the arm/disarm?  Interesting...

If I attach the remote starter wire to the motor side of the starter kill relay,
will that do anything?  I guess it would start the car without the alarm going off,
but I don't know what else it would do.

Isn't the remote starter wire a (-) output ? It won't do anything to the starter because the starter needs 12 volts and about 30 - 50 amp draw when starting ( Honda's are less ).

I think what I meant by the "remote start wire" is the starter/crank (yellow/black) wire from the remote starter to the BLACK/ white starter wire in the car.

I thought my whole problem was that I had it connected before the starter kill, and I thought I could fix it by connecting it after the relay, but I think it's (obviously)

more involved than that.

Ok, the saga continues:  (You can just read this post...I re-capped the others into this one).

BOTTOMLINE:
I have a Civic with an aftermarket Checkmate alarm (see the link above for the schematics).
I added a Bulldog Remote Starter (RS-82) to the alarm's 3rd channel.

PROBLEM:
If you remotely start the car, the alarm goes off...SO
you have to disarm the car first, and then remotely start it (then it locks).  The
problem with that is when you walk up to the car, you have to use the key to open the door because
it's already running (which I guess disables the keyless entry).

WHAT I'M TRYING TO DO:
I'm trying to be able to remotely start the car, and then be able to walk up to it and use the keyless entry.

______________________________________________________________________________________

I called Checkmate and he said my remote starter either needs an input AND output,
or it needs a sensor bypass wire.  I told him I have neither.  (The wiring schematic
for the remote starter is also in the previous post). 

Now that I look at the remote start diagram, I see that there's a FASD wire, which I'm
assuming is an output wire.  Is there a way to hook up the FASD wire to the shock sensor
in the alarm (maybe with a relay), so when I remotely start it and it's running, the alarm won't go off.
And then when I walk up to it, shouldn't I be able to use the keyless entry to "disarm/unlock"
the car.  Then, when I get in and hit the brake, the Remote Start will deactivate?

Hmmmm, wishful thinking, but could this work?

THANKS!

I think that FASD wire stands for Factory Alarm System Disarm and if that is the case, no that wouldn't really allow you to disable the shock sensor...

The two main problems you have are the fact that the Checkmate alarm stupidly does not allow the keyless entry features to work when the ignition is on (most alarms will still allow keyless entry function, but will not arm or disarm the alarm with the ignition on).  Then again most alarms will also go off if the ignition is turned on with the alarm armed, thereby also requiring an alarm control circuit anyhow.

The second problem is that the Bulldog starter does not have a sensor loop or "bypass" with which to bypass the shock sensor so therefore the alarm either goes off or chirps during remote start.

Really the remote starter model you buy should have both "Alarm Control" (Ignition Wire control to the alarm) and sensor bypass.  I do realise that you've already bought the Bulldog but it doesn't have the necessary features to use the alarm and remote starter together properly...

The ignition control wire should output ignition voltage from the remote starter to the alarm whenever it "sees" ignition voltage on the ignition wire EXCEPT when it, itself is powering the ignition wire.  The sensor loop should simply cut either the positive or negative power supply to the sensor during remote start and connect it other wise.

If you can make a few relay circuits to do those two functions you will be in business, otherwise you won't.

For these types of connections I can only think that you would have to energise a relay to break contact when the remote starter is on (x2  because you need one for the IGN and the other for the sensor loop).  However there doesn't SEEM to be any wires that the remote starter would output voltage on that would not also be live when the key is turned normally as the wires are run in parallel.  This would not prove a problem for the sensor bypass as you would never need the sensor to be active when the car is on but it would prove to be ineffective on the ignition wire because whenever you started the car by the key it would also break continuity on the alarm's ignition input wire...

The only think I can imagine off the top of my head would be to diode isolate the ignition wire on the remote starter with a special application diode made for a fairly large amount of current that way you could have the relay bypass for the alarm's ignition wire wired before the diode and therefore the normal key cylinder use of the ignition would not trip the relay as well.  I don't know if you could find such a diode and if it would be even a good idea to do that...

As for the starter kill you are correct in that you should connect the crank wire to the engine/starter side of that relay that way the starter kill will not inhibit the remote starter from cranking the engine.

In the end you might have to buy another remote starter module--if you would even want to after the $$$ already spent and the headaches you've had with it I don't know.

If you were willing to get a different module, however, I would recommend the Design Tech Model 20022 Add-On module as it has all the necessary features to integrate a remote starter into an alarm system.  The Omega RS-4LX is also available and it is the exact same module as the DT 20022.  There are also others that would do the same, probally like the ones from Direceted, but I'm not sure about those.

Ok, my reply

I think that FASD wire stands for Factory Alarm System Disarm and if that is the case, no that wouldn't really allow you to disable the shock sensor...
The way the tech on the phone was talking, it sounded like I could use the FASD wire (since it puts out a (-) output), and use a relay to disable
the shock sensor when starting and while remotely running.  That sounded odd to me...I wasn't sure that could be done.

The ignition control wire should output ignition voltage...
I'm a little confused about what this wire does.  When remotely starterd, will the remote starter wire
trick the alarm into thinking it's not running?  And so the car stays armed, and then you can still use
the keyless entry?

So I need alarm control and sensor bypass.  I was checking out the DesignTech 20022, how do you know that has
these two functions?  Just curious where you found that because the website doesn't really have much info on it (specifics).

Can you recommend a good site for the Omega and the DesignTech remote starters?  They run about $80?...is that right?

Thanks again!

Hi,

Hmm...  With regards to the FASD wire, most factory disarms I know of output a negative (-) PULSE on that wire when the remote starter kicks in.  However if it outputs a CONTINUOUS ground (negative) when the remote starter is active, you CAN use that wire.  Check and see if it is only a pulse or if it gives constant ground...

As for the websites...  Design-Tech International:  www.designtech-intl.com

                                        Omega:  www.caralarm.com

As for the ignition control wire--you got it.  That is exactly what it does.  It "tricks" the alarm into thinking the car is NOT on when it is being remote started.  That way a few different things happen. 

1.  The alarm will not trigger (for those alarms that trigger with ignition while armed) and;

2.  For your case the keyless entry will still work and;

3.  If someone opens the door without disarming the system (i.e. break in) the alarm will still go off.

BTW:  I know the DT AutoCommand 20022 has those features because I own one! :)  The retail on it is $100 US available directly from Design Tech, however it can be found cheaper than that.  SOMETIMES you will find one on eBay for pretty cheap ($20-$50), but only now and again.  As for the Omega RS-4LX I know it is the exact same thing because all the wires are the same and they look identical except for the case colour (the Omega is red coloured).

If you can't find an add on module for a good price with those features (or get yours to work) the other option is to buy a complete alarm remote starter combo system.

For example the CrimeStopper CS-2011RSII is available on eBay for like $80 US or so and it is a complete alarm/keyless entry/remote start solution.  The advantage of such a system is that you don't have to worry about all the interfacing business--just connect all the wires and it works on it's own.

Also note that I'm not really endorsing brands or anything, just giving some examples.  There are others you can find on eBay and other online sites all the time in and around that price range, sometimes even less.

Thanks again.  I'll definitely check out if the FASD sends out a pulse or constant ground.
(Hopefully constant, but I doubt it.)

I've been checking out that Design Tech and Omega versions, too.  Not too many that I could
find on Ebay at the moment.  I found that PepBoys sells DT, but I haven't been there yet.
I guess when you hear a brand that you've never heard of before (even if it has been around
for a while) you automatically thing it's not that good...or at least I did).  But I guess
DT is pretty good if you have it, huh?

I also saw the DEI 522T on ebay.  It sounds pretty good, but I'm not sure if it will do what
I want (Ign control and sensor bypass).  I downloaded the install and owner's manual to check,
but I'm still not sure.

Thanks again for the help...lemme know if you got more info:)

Thanks!

Never heard of DesignTech?  Really?  They pretty much invented the modern-day remote starter for automobiles as they were among the first (if not the first) to offer a remote starter for a vehicle. 

Also Design Tech has really good customer support for END-USERS (regular people) whereas many other companies won't provide that much support (if any at all) as they claim their systems should be installed at authourised installers.  (It is a good idea to get things installed by a pro, but what about if you want to do it yourself and are capable and just need a few pointers?  Also I've seen a lot of "pro" installs that were more like "ghetto" by my standards.)

I'll check on the DEI model (since the manual is on the website) and see if I can determine anything from it.  Also did you download the Owner's Manual or the Install Manual?  The install manual will have the info.  Anyhow, I'll check it out for you too...

Okay, just checked on the DEI.  I assume you meant the 552T as opposed to the 522T (I didn't see a 522T listed there)...

Anyhow, the 552T does feature both an additional negative output for "status" (on whenever the remote start is active) and also a negative 3rd Ignition output (negative because it is meant to drive a relay not directly power an ignition circuit).

Either/both of these wires could be used with relays to run a sensor bypass and alarm ignition input control circuit.  However you would again be using relays for these functions. 

Also of note that the DEI 552T is actually a complete keyless entry and remote starter system (no alarm though), but it can be activated using an AUX channel on a separate alarm.  The DEI 551T is the almost the same model except that it does not come with transmitters and is meant solely for the purpose of remote starting via a host alarm with AUX output.  The 551T also features a direct alarm control circuit that connects to the host alarm without using relays.

Hey cpgoose, you might want to check out this auction on eBay I ran across...

https://cgi.ebay.com/dll?ViewItem&item=1375119365

It is an Omega RS-6.  This one doesn't have as many features and isn't as advanced as the RS-4LX but it does have two bypass circuits for shock sensors etc.  They are normally closed and open only when the remote start is active.

They are meant to be used for the pre-warn and full trigger on the shock sensor but you SHOULD be able to interrupt the ground wire to the sensor instead, thereby defeating the sensor altoghether during remote start.  Then you could use the other bypass for the ignition wire to the alarm that way when it was active the alarm would still  think the ignition were off.  I THINK that would work.  Anyhow just came across it and thought I'd point it out.  Hopefully you'll see this and check it out!

wow, thanks for the heads-up omega.  I was checkin' out that rs-6.  What's gettin' me is that it
doesn't have the pit stop feature.  It's my girlfriend's car...and she says she likes that feature,
so I'm trying to keep it.  But thanks for finding that...it was pretty cheap!

I have yet to get to Pep Boys to check out the DesignTech ones.  They probably won't be that
cheap from PB, but can't hurt.

Thanks again!

Hey, I went to the PepBoys by me.  The only had 2 remote starters...an Audiovox rs/alarm and a DesignTech 2600.  They said they could order the 20022 for $150.00!  Yikes.

Anyway, since you said you had it, I have a couple of questions.  I downloaded the manual,
and was flipping through it:

1.  Where did you get yours, from the DT's site?

2.  I don't see anything about parking light confirmation....like your lights would stay
on while the car is running?  I like this feature because if you're inside, you can't
really hear the car running...and this would confirm it.

3.  The manual says you may need relays for different applications, and then it talks about
the ignition wire, so I'm not sure if you need one for that.  Anyway, it says to put the
YELLOW /GREEN to the ignition input of the alarm.  So I'm assuming I can piggyback this wire
to the "yellow" wire in Diagram A of the Checkmate alarm (see diagram in previous post)?
See how the yellow wire of the alarm is also connected to the starter kill, and they both
go to the IGN1 wire?  I wasn't sure if it stayed that way, or if you disconnected it.  And
overall, if you need a relay because it says it's a 300mA transistor input.  I don't think
so, though.

4.  For the SensorLoopIn and SensorLoopOut wires, I actually have to cut the wire
on my shock sensor, and then put it to both of these wires?  Just wanted to double check
that.

Cool.  I really like this system so far.  Just have to figure out what I'd do with the Bulldog
one if I took it out.  And double check that the DT can do everything the Bulldog does.

Thanks!

Okay here goes :)

1.  Believe it or not I got my 20022 for less than $15 US total, shipped.  It was the "older" model (I'll explain the minor differences in a minute) and it had no wiring harnesses.  Just the module, instruction manual, box and decals.  I won an eBay auction for it about a year or so ago and it ended at about $5-$7 or something.  Plus shipping I'd say maybe $12US or so.  Then I just used plug in spade crimps and all black wire on the remote starter connections and *luckily* I found this computer harness thing sitting around in an electronics junk store and it was the correct molex configuration.  So I paid a few bucks for that and I was off to the races :)

2.  About the parking light confirmation...  There are IGN1 IGN2 and ACC outputs on the module which are all relayed.  If you only need to use two of the three (a lot of cars need only IGN1&2 to run the car and the heater, but NOT the stereo) then you can use ACC to run the parking lights while the unit is on.  If you need to use all three (if your car needs that many wires to run or you want to run the stereo with the remote start) you need to simply wire two relays up to the ACC circuit and run the parking lights off one and the ACC wire off the other.  So it might require relays but not hard to do at all.

3. The "alarm control" wire that connects to the ignition input on the host alarm needs no relay (on the newer model.  They stopped making the older model A LONG time ago so you won't have to worry about getting the "new" one.)  The way you would hook this to the alarm would be to hook this wire directly to the alarm's ign input wire without any other connections.

I can't view the picture of your diagrams because the link just pops up something that says I'm not allowed to view the image :(  I'm not sure why the wire is connected to the starter kill unless the wire you have going to the starter kill is the "anti-grind" wire.  However I'm not sure how an anti-grind would work from the IGN1 wire you have it connected to currently--it would need to be connected to a ground when running wire.  Again on this issue of the starter kill I'm not sure because I can't see your diagram.  In any case an anti-grind isn't really needed for it to work properly.

4.  For the sensor loop wires, you can just use it as an IN and OUT really.  You should be able to interrupt the ground wire to the sensor this way.  Cut the black wire on the sensor and connect the "alarm side" to one of these and connect the "sensor side" to the other.   Alternatively you could cut the detection wire and connect either side to one each end of the loop but that won't work on 2-stage sensors as you can only bypass one stage that way.  So the answer is to just cut power to the sensor altogether so it will only get power when the R/S is off.

Now for the "differences" in the old 20022 and the "new" version...  This is just for curiousity's sake because you will not likely even find the old model for sale anymore because it was changed a while ago.  The old model had no plug-in switch, instead you connected one end of the switch to ground and the other end to one wire on the harness.  The newer model features a plug in switch and the wire that was used for the switch on the harness is now a "wait to start input" for diesel vehicles only.

Also the newer version has both connectors (harness and remote start connections) on the same side of the module whereas the old one had them on opposite sides (harness connector on one side, remote start wires on the other).

The last difference is the alarm control wire.  On the old one it was a -300mA output which you connected to a relay to use to give +12V to the alarms ign. input when necessary.  The new one does away with the need for the relay between the module and the alarm input wire--it has a +300mA output instead so it can be connected directly.  Those are the only differences in the modules.

Okay, for Q#3, I got to see your image by cutting and pasting the link...  Okay I was totally confused on that one.  You were talking about the ALARM only not the remote starter.  In that case forget all the stuff I said about "anti-grind" because it will only confuse you more and doesn't apply at all.

What you would do with that wire (the yellow one from the ALARM) is connect it directly to the AutoCommand's "alarm control" wire.  You would connect it that wire alone, no others.  When the AutoCommand is off (inactive) it will send +12V on that alarm anytime it "sees" +12V on the IGN1 circuit.  BUT if the AutoCommand ITSELF is powering the IGN1 wire (i.e. during remote start) then it WILL NOT send +12V on that wire.  This fools the alarm into thinking the car is NOT on and therefore your keyless entry will work even when remote started.

Sorry about the confusion.  I guess it is like they say, a picture tells 1000 words :)

Cool, thanks again Omega.  Sorry about those links, but I'm glad you got them to work.

1.  That's a pretty good price you got! :)

2.  I believe right now I have IGN1, IGN2, and the ACC wire all hooked up for the remote
starter.  But come to think of it, I realized the other day that the radio has the
ability to come on when remotely started.  Do you think this means that I do not need to
hook up the ACC wire...and then I could use it for the parking lights as you said?  I guess I could
disconnect it and see if the air / heater still works (and is in fact cold / hot).

Would you need a relay to use the ACC wire for the p-lights, or can you just directly hookup the ACC wire to the lights?

3. & 4.  Ok, I think I'm starting to get the theory:)

Thanks again for the help.  I'm actually going to be by another PepBoys this weekend,
so I might check there for this module.  (and also ebay :-)

WIth respect to #2, the parking lights can be hooked up if to the ACC wire without a relay if you don't need to use it for something else.  If you need to use the ACC wire then you'd use two relays on that wire (perhaps you might only need one actually) to power both the car's ACC wire and the parking lights.

As for the check, that is right--just disconnect the ACC wire (and tape it off) to the remote start.  If the car starts and runs and everything you want to have on works then you don't need to use it and then you could just hook it up to the parking lights (do NOT connect it to the dimmer circuit though) and run them like that.

Ok, stupid question:
How do I know if I'm connected to the dimmer circuit?  For the '97 Civic, it says the p-lights wire
is RED / black.  I found the RED / black wire in the wire harness right above the driver's left knee (behind
the knee panel)...so I used that.  It worked just fine, so I'm assuming that's the correct wire?

Check this out:
I called Bulldog last night to ask if they sell something comprable to the DT20022 because I'm having
problems with their model.  He first asked me what the prob was, and I told him that I lose use of the
keyless entry when the car is running.  He told me to use the key.  Well DUH!  I told him that I had
been doing that, and he said it's a problem with the remote starter, not the alarm.  I said that there
are modules that have the IGN control and sensor bypass, do they sell one like that?  He said, "No, no..."
meaning that those do not exist.  Again, "It's a problem with your alarm, not the rs".  Grrr, I should have
just told him about the DT20022.

He then said "You'd have to do something like hook up the alarm's IGN wire to a relay, and activate
that relay with the (middle) white wire from the remote start harness....but wait, that would be no
good because the car's running would set off the shock sensor."  To which I replied that there are modules
that have the IGN control and sensor bypass...to which he said, "no".  Grrr again.  Oh well.
Anyway, it sounds like he was telling me a way to have the IGN Control with a relay, but I don't know
if he meant to totally disconnect the white wire, or tap it?  This sounds like what I was thinking in
the beginning about using the FASD wire to trick the IGN and bypass the sensor.  I wonder if it's still
possible.  Wishful thinking?

Sorry this was a mouthful, but the saga continues.  :-)

hey omega,

Ok, to continue the saga...I went to another Pep Boys today
and they had the DT Autocommand 20026 for $80.00.  From the
website, I see that this is like a longer (skinny) type module,
and it seems to have everything the 20022 has, but comes
with a remote. 

So, I called DesignTech tech support, and told him that I want
an add-on remote start that will let me use my keyless entry
while it's running.  He told me about a couple models, but he
didn't get my point.  He wanted me to buy a keyless entry / remote
start system all in one.  D'oh.  Then I said "No, and add-on".
He said it wasn't possible...if the keyless didn't work with the
car running, then this wouldn't work.  SO I told him that I was
told I could splice into the shock sensor wire, and then also
hook up the alarm's ignition wire to the remote starter to trick
it, and he said "No no, you're not going to cut any wires."  Hmmm,
so is the method you were telling me about something you came up
with your your car?  That's what I'm thinking, and they just don't
want people to cut into stuff cause then it might be DT's problem.

He said I have to call Checkmate (the alarm company) and see if
there's a shutdown wire.  I told him I didn't think so (from
the diagram) because if there was, I wouldn't have this problem in
the first place, I would have been able to shut it down with my
existing remote starter.

Just wanted to see what you thought about all this, and about
the 20026...I guess $80 isn't that bad.

Thanks man!

Well strangely enough, the DT guy either had no idea what you were talking about or didn't know what he was talking about...

The 20022 specifiacally has a wire called "Alarm Control" and what it does is exactly what I described.  If the car is started (ignition turned to "on") by any  "normal" means, then that wire sends ignition voltage to the alarm's ignition input.  If started by the remote starter itself it does not send ign. voltage on the wire.  I didn't have to "make this myself" with relays or anything it is a feature that the module already has!  Surprisingly the guy at DT didn't know that (they are usually pretty good).  For this connection you don't use the shock sensor loop or any tricks, the rs has this feature built-in.

The shock sensor loop feature is separate.  It is only to prevent the alarm from either chirping or going off fully because of the vibrations present with the engine idling.  Also the shock sensor loop is a built-in feature as well.  I don't know why the guy didn't know about that either--maybe he was a rookie or something?

There wouldn't be a shut-down wire on the Checkmate since it is a stand alone alarm and uses its own transmitters for that purpose.  Most alarms do not have any other means (wires) to turn disarm them.  You aren't actually shutting down the alarm at all.  You are simply "disconnecting" the shock sensor during remote start and also "telling" the alarm the ignition ISN'T on during remote start.  If the module has an external shock sensor this should work okay.  If it has a built in shock sensor (inside the alarm brain) then you wouldn't be able to use the shock sensor loop.  (From your diagrams it looks like it uses an external sensor for shock sensing).

The 20026, is that the 1-button transmitter model?  If it is you might be able to activate it with the aux channel on the checkmate (many rs modules have an alternate activation input even if it comes with transmitters) but I'm not sure about that.  However the bad part is that you would NOT be able to bypass the shock sensor or the ignition input to the alarm which would land you back at square one!

DT does make a few keyless entry + remote start models but then you wouldn't be able to use your alarm and some of those models aren't alarms in themselves.  Furthermore the ones from DT that are alarms or have "alarm features" are missing two things one is 2stage shock sensor input--there is only an input for single stage.  The second is trunk/hood pin input (for the alarm) so only the doors would be protected.

The DT model that comes complete w/shock sensor (1 stage) and siren, and has keyless entry and rs features goes on eBay for $70-80 new.  (Used to be $50 but for some reason the seller upped his price.)  However those mentioned features of a TRUE alarm system are missing.  Also on eBay you can get a full-featured CrimeStopper CS2011-RSII for the same money.  It has RS/keyless entry/full alarm and nice transmitters.

Ok, stupid question:
How do I know if I'm connected to the dimmer circuit?  For the '97 Civic, it says the p-lights wire
is RED / black.  I found the RED / black wire in the wire harness right above the driver's left knee (behind
the knee panel)...so I used that.  It worked just fine, so I'm assuming that's the correct wire?

He then said "You'd have to do something like hook up the alarm's IGN wire to a relay, and activate
that relay with the (middle) white wire from the remote start harness....but wait, that would be no
good because the car's running would set off the shock sensor."  To which I replied that there are modules
that have the IGN control and sensor bypass...to which he said, "no".  Grrr again. 

Okay didn't see this post that was before the last so I'll try to address this one too...

On the parking light wire, if you got the parking light wire colour from a "install sheet" or guide (from here on 12v or elsewhere) it is pretty much going to be the right wire.  Didn't mean to scare you there, just didn't know you had the wire colours already :)

As for connecting a relay to the white (ignition) wire of the remote starter to prevent the alarm from seeing ignition voltage--there is no way that will work unless you get some really huge diode!  The reason being is because that wire is in parallel with the cars ignition wire.  That means you will get ignition voltage ANYTIME the ignition is at +12v  (whether the car is running by the key OR by the rs).  The problem there is that when you used the key to take over from the rs or to start the car normally then the alarm would not see ignition voltage meaning it could become armed and also go into full siren when you're driving around!

Therefore the only way I can see to use the BullDog for this application is if that "FASD wire" is putting out a CONSTANT output.  Check the wire with a DMM (if available) and see what happens during remote start.  If the wire reads a constant GROUND (does not simply pulse GROUND and then go back to nothing/12V) then you could utilise that wire.  Otherwise you're stuck where you are.

Edit:  I edited the above paragraph.  At first I thought the FASD wire was a 12V output but now I see it is a ground output.  Therefore it has to be constant GROUND (when the RS is ACTIVE only) for it to work.

Ok, for the 20026, yes, I think it's the standalone remote start module that comes with a remote.  The reason I was interested in that was if it could do the same exact things that the 20022 could do (and that it had a remote and was on sale:).

But it sounds like if I use my checkmate remote to work the 20026, then I won't be able to do the bypassing, like you said.  Then I'm not interested in it..maybe i'll call them back and see.

I'm still interested in the 20022...it's the same price from the DT website.  It's just that (again), if the 20026 did the same thing as the 22, then I would think about that one too since I can buy it in a store,  you know?

I'm glad you're confirming the stuff I should be able to do (IGN Control and Sensor Bypass) with the 22.  I don't know who I was talking to at DT, but I said to him that I heard that's what's good about their products (that you could bypass an alarm), and he said no.  Go figure.  Maybe I'll call back tomorrow again:)

Thanks again for the help.

I was actually thinking about the original RS you have again.  Do you still have it?  I don't know why I didn't think of this before but I think you MIGHT be able to use it.  If you get 3 relays and hook them all up to the ign1 output of the RS, I think you could make everything work.

Firstly you'd connect one relay so that it put 12V on the ignition wire when the RS powered up IGN1.  Then you'd put another relay so that when IGN1 was powered by the RS it would break the shock sensor's connection to ground(the black wire from the sensor to the alarm module).  The third relay would connect the alarm input wire on the alarm to the car's IGN wire but when there was voltage on the RS IGN1 it would break that connection.  I have no idea why I didn't think of this before.  I kept thinking that the car's own ignition wires would also travel "back" down to the RS ignition wire but with a relay installed it wouldn't and that is what I didn't realise before.

So I think with a little wiring it might work.

Also you might only need 2 relays because I think the BullDog starter uses "satellite" relays already?  I'm not sure about that but if you have wires that lead from the RS to relays and then connect the car's wires, then you have satellite relays. 

Stupidly enough, if I thought of this a month ago we would have never had the above PAGES of conversations!

BIG THANKS TO OMEGA FOR SOLVING THIS PROBLEM!!!!

Well for anyone not following this problem (which you probably weren't), Omega solved this entire problem that I've been having since DECEMBER of 2001!!!  I added a remote starter to my girlfriend's existing (aftermarket) alarm.   The problem was that when you remotely started the car, you couldn't use the keyless entry anymore!  Well, I had been given about 3 things to try over the past couple months...which turned into 3 strikes because none of them worked.  Well finally I learned about these other remote starters that come with IGNITION and SENSOR bypasses, that would solve my problem  I almost bought one, and Omega tells me how to solve my problem with 2 relays!  I wired it up this weekend, and my problem is now solved!!!  Basically, just bypassed the IGNITION and the SENSOR with the relays....now that I've learned about it, it makes more sense to me.  But there's nothing like gettting a problem solved that's been sitting there for SO LONG!!!

NEW PROBLEM:

Ok, here's a litte more info (some problems going on).

The car can now be remotely started with disarming first, and also the keyless entry works
while the car is remotely running.  Peachy.

BUT, sometimes when you remotely start the car, the alarm goes off.
Upon walking up to the car, the LED is blinking 2 times, which means
the trunk or hoodpin trigger.  (There is no hoodpin in the car, but the
trunk does set off the alarm).  One of the biggest things I've noticed
is that the times the alarm does go off when remotely started....the car
has been SITTING for a while.  (overnight or a little longer).  For example,
if it's parked at night, and then started in the morning, the alarm will sound.
BUT...if you remotely start it later in the day (the afternoon or so), it won't
set off the alarm.  Could this either be timing or temperature?

I'm so confused.