Printer Friendly Forum Posts - Manual 2002 Eclipse, Remote Starter

I recently had the Viper 791xv installed in my 5-speed 2002 eclipse. The installer said he cant hook up the remote starter cause the car is manual. I know that you can still install it, but to be careful NOT to start it in gear. I asked him if I can still have the starter, so i could install, he said its in the car, just not hooked up. How can i hook this bad boy up. Also, I did so research on manual remote starters and there are a few that is on the market that say that you can use them in manual trans. They come w/ some sort of "Neutral Safty Switch", which prevents the car from starting if its in gear. Can i buy one of these and install it....?

The units designed for manual transmissions require you to enter "ready mode" (different units call it it different names) in order for the remote start feature is available. The lasest way of doing this is to pull the e-brake, leave the car in neutral, turn the car off (it will stay running), then get out and shut the door and the car will automatically shut off. So to install this, you need to grab the door trigger and the ebrake wires. Pulling the e-brake turns on the RS, and the door trigger opening then closing turns it off. if you open the door the unit exits "ready mode". This is how the unit can be sure you are in neutral. Some vehicles have a factory neutral safety switch wire you can use for added security, but it is not necessary and your vehicle may not have one anyway.

You will also need to bypass the passive anti-theft device. If you have 2 working keys you can get the PKU-MIT here which does not require the use of a key (just need 2 to program it):

PKU-MIT

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J Rilla

Owner/Installer

So how do you think they installed the viper r/s? htink it is esy to "connect" the r/s?

and is the immobolizer what i need as the "safty switch"?

Adding the remote start part of the Viper would consist of tapping into the accessory wire, the tach wire, hooking up the starter output, clutch bypass and immobilizer bypass (which is NOT the neutral safety thing). The immobilizer is a transponder based anti-theft device which consists of a coded key and a coil around the key cylinder which reads the key. If a plain key is inserted into the ignition it wont start, so a remote starter wont work either unless you install the bypass module which simulates the key being in the ignition. You need to install a seperate coil around the key cylinder then program the module using 2 working keys. You can also buy a universal bypass which requires an additional programmed key, but getting another key can be expensive from mitsubishi (between $50 and $90, depending on where you get it).

HOWEVER, You should not install the remote start features because that unit is not designed for manual transmission vehicles and there are no built in safety features to assure that the vehicle is in neutral.

If you want a remote starter then you should buy a unit designed for manual transmission vehicles. You would then need to do a complete install.

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J Rilla

Owner/Installer

if i bought a separate remote starter made for manual, could i still make my original remote "start it" or do i have to have 2 remotes, one for alarm, one for R/S?

Yes you just need to make sure the unit has an external input wire that you will have to trigger with multiple pulses typically from the lock wire. This way you just press lock three times and it will start. So you just hook that trigger up to the lock wire from the viper.

Its not ideal but it will work.

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J Rilla

Owner/Installer

the viper 791xv has a button made for the Remote starter-that came w/ it, made for automatics.. can i use that particular button???

lukeforce wrote:

the viper 791xv has a button made for the Remote starter-that came w/ it, made for automatics.. can i use that particular button???

Also, what would you recommend for the manual Remote Starter, what type, brand, model?

Ok, you may be able to use the button for start on the transmitter assuming a few things. First, there is a negative starter output on your unit (according to the manual). I have never installed any dei products but I think they use external relays, so this negative starter output should be available. I see there is an onboard starter kill, and I dont know if it is just a kill relay or if it doubles as the starter output for the RS features. If it is also the starter output, then you either can't use the start button, or you need to see if the negative output is seperate and can still be used (I know this is confusing, but since I dont have the unit in front of me, I cant say right now. I can try to read the manual a little more to understand it, but it would be easier if I knew the system.

Anyway, lets say you can use the negative starter output, then when you press start on your remote it will trun on the ignition outputs which may or may not be hooked up (doesnt matter), then it will output a pulse on the starter output wire. This will be the pulse that is required to trigger the starter unit. You wont be able to shut it down this way though. Well actually if you press that start button again, it will shut down the viper, and then if you press start a third time it should shut down the slave unit.

I need to look into which unit will work for you. The 2 units I work with may not be ideal. The ones that you could buy retail online wont work for sure since the trigger input doubles as the e brake input, and the other has an external trigger that requires a special connector since it is designed for an external timer unit. But it does have a trigger and the unit is top quality. I just need to see if the trigger will work. I will look to see if other units will work. This is not an ideal situation though, especially since many units designed for manual tranmission vehicles might not work via the external trigger wire.

Anyway, let me get back to you. email me if you have any more questions for me, otherwise you may want to post more questions here and hopefully a DEI guy can answer better.

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J Rilla

Owner/Installer

Ultra Start 4500M Alarm/ Starter (Manual Transmission) is one i found not sure if it would work, what do you think?

Ultra Start 2500M Remote Starter (Manual Transmission) is the starter only. will this work w/ my Viper 791xv Responder remote?

first of all, a rs on manual trans and automatic is install exactly the same way. the only thing that need to be added to the mt is the clutch bypass, that is it.

the clutch will have two wires (hondas and nissans, dont know bout mitsu), all it does is completing the ciruit.

all there is, is a switch, youre not technically bypassing the clutch, its the button right on infront of the clutch pedal that need to be bypass.

heres what need to be done for rs: look at the mitsu ignition harness for color listed.
*******black relay pack- mitsu ign harness******
1.cut the starter wire- STARTER|BLACK/ red
2.purple-STARTER|BLACK/ red, starter side
3.green-STARTER|BLACK/ red, keyside
4.pink-IGNITION|dk. green
5.orange-ACCESSORY|blue/red
6.pink/white-SECOND ACCESSORY|blue/black

after hookin up all the main wire to ign, starter, acc, go to page 16 on ur install manual and look at the H3 5pin connector.

1.gray-hood switch, do this last, this come with a switch that can be install under the hood to prevent rs when service on car.
2.brown- tap to BRAKE WIRE|GREEN/ orange|+|brake pedal switch|
3.violet/white-tap to... Go to the test connector inside the fusebox under the hood, it is a T shaped plug. Tach is the terminal on the top left of the T, the wire under the terminal is white or WHITE/ red.
4.BLACK/ wht- since no NSSwitch, this need to see ground or it wont rs.

almost done....go to the primary harness onpage 14
1.WHITE/ blue needs to be ground.

NOW-programming the tach- turn on the car w/ ur key and locate ur valet button. w/in 10 sec after ign on, press and hold down the valet until the led light up then let go. if not light up u have wrong tach wire.

lastly, this is the testing to see if you connect them right and well...i suggest taking ur time and twist them tightly and tape them well. "measure twice cut once."

step on the clutch,place the key inside the key cylinder(****do not turn the key***)

if this is sucessful, it should be!!!! then post ur result and others or i will help you on the clutch bypass and the immobilizer bypass.

have fun and take ur time, no need to rush. get a DMMeter to test all the wires. read teh manual to see how to test wires, starter, acc, tach, igns.......its all in there.

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Houston,TX
"The two most common elements in the universe are H+ and stupidity" (Ellison).

Ultra Start 2500M Remote Starter (Manual Transmission) has safty features for manual tranny cars. Could I use these features of some sort or buy this start and "add" to viper to start it w/ the viper remote?

I dont think any ultraStart models have an external trigger input wire.

You did mention the UltraStart 4500 though which you could install in place of the viper. I see that as your best choice putting the money issue aside. You might not even be ble to find a manual unit that has slave capabilities.

I personally wouldn't want to deal with the slave idea since the responder would not tell you what was going on with the starter features. It would tell you that the car received the signal, but it wouldnt tell you if it started or shut off. Actually, even if you did find a unit to work, it might be very difficult to know if it received the signal if you had to use the lock wire as the trigger since it requires 2 pulses within a few seconds and the responder type units wait until it receives confirmation before you are able to enter another command so it is possible the 2 pulses wont work and you would have no idea.

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J Rilla

Owner/Installer

hmm...that will be a waste of money buying the 791xv already. why dont you invest in a NSS instead of another rs unit?
i cant remember what site that sell them, i think they cost about 40 bucks for the NSS....hope someone post teh link here for you.

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Houston,TX
"The two most common elements in the universe are H+ and stupidity" (Ellison).

neutral safety switch

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J Rilla

Owner/Installer

iwould only use them as added security on a unit designed for a manual transmission vehicle like we are discussing. If the nss fails due to poor installation, or simply product failure, you're F'd

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J Rilla

Owner/Installer

yeah jrilla is correct.

just install the rs as is and risk the "putin first gear accidentally".

btw, i hope you didnt buy the whole isntall package and only buy the alarm/keyless install only.

if i have a mt car, ill try to fabricate somekind of NSS at the shift stick using simple plate touching the stick. it maybe crappy but itll work.

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Houston,TX
"The two most common elements in the universe are H+ and stupidity" (Ellison).

hey jrilla, how does the NSS that they sell work anyways?

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Houston,TX
"The two most common elements in the universe are H+ and stupidity" (Ellison).

profuse007 wrote:

yeah jrilla is correct.

just install the rs as is and risk the "putin first gear accidentally".

btw, i hope you didnt buy the whole isntall package and only buy the alarm/keyless install only.

if i have a mt car, ill try to fabricate somekind of NSS at the shift stick using simple plate touching the stick. it maybe crappy but itll work.

what du you mean by that

i think you askin about the "just install the rs as is and risk the "putin first gear accidentally"."

some ppl out there just install the unit w/o the NSS and they risk of puttin it into gear while rs.

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Houston,TX
"The two most common elements in the universe are H+ and stupidity" (Ellison).

i hear a lots of horror stories about this....so beware, its a big risk. i heard some car started and hitted his own garage door.

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Houston,TX
"The two most common elements in the universe are H+ and stupidity" (Ellison).

btw, i hope you didnt buy the whole isntall package and only buy the alarm/keyless install only.

you think they left out the r/s? I told them i was thinking about installing it or atleast keep it to swap in a different car in the future...

by the way, i have seemed to have lost the last half of my install guide, does anyone know where i can print out a version...?

DEI Install Guides

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J Rilla

Owner/Installer

Profuse, I am not sure how they work, I have never seen them.

I have heard of many ways of rigging up features to determine if the shifter was in gear or not, but they are just too risky.

There are many people who dont even trust the manual tranmission units

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J Rilla

Owner/Installer

Here is the link to what you may be talking about:

Last item on this page:

NSS

It says that the unit must have a stop and go feature, so it sounds like the thing somehow verifys that the car is in neutral the same way the manual tranny unit do, by knowing that it was running on its own. I dont know though.

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J Rilla

Owner/Installer

thanks a lot jrilla, thats teh site i need.
i installed on a manual once to a person i know, other than that installin on a manual is too scary sometime.

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Houston,TX
"The two most common elements in the universe are H+ and stupidity" (Ellison).

profuse007 wrote:

*******black relay pack- mitsu ign harness******
1.cut the starter wire- STARTER|BLACK/ red
2.purple-STARTER|BLACK/ red, starter side
3.green-STARTER|BLACK/ red, keyside
4.pink-IGNITION|dk. green
5.orange-ACCESSORY|blue/red
6.pink/white-SECOND ACCESSORY|blue/black

after hookin up all the main wire to ign, starter, acc, go to page 16 on ur install manual and look at the H3 5pin connector.

isnt this already connected not the H3 5pin connector though

what did you mean after hookin up all the main wire to ign, starter, acc....

shouldnt that be all done already, or am i missunderstanding it...?

i dont know, i thought he left out the rs since its a manual tranny?

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Houston,TX
"The two most common elements in the universe are H+ and stupidity" (Ellison).

do i need a key bypass (DEI 555U) for 2002 Mits Eclipse...?

Quoting myself from the first page of this thread:

"You will also need to bypass the passive anti-theft device. If you have 2 working keys you can get the PKU-MIT here which does not require the use of a key (just need 2 to program it):

PKU-MIT"

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J Rilla

Owner/Installer

oh yeah, thanks

ok, I have all components needed. -Step 1= add immob. bypass -Step 2= Bypass clutch -Step 3 = connect 5pin H3 connector -Step 4 prog. tach Step 4= Test

Does that sound like everything

It sounds like you are planning on installing the starter features of the Viper. What do you plan on doing to ensure you dont try to start the car while it is in gear?

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J Rilla

Owner/Installer

I never put it in gear, but when i do (such as parking on hills),rarely ever, I have a habit of putting it in reverse, therefor i'm using reverse light as NSS.And as for when its in the shop or something, Im adding a "safty relay switch" that will simply "disconnect", as you will, all the add-ons I'm installing (starter on Viper)and clutch bypass. It will be like turning on and off the starter options with a switch, located in the car. That way thers not possible way for someone to remote start it in gear on accident, in the hands of others.

lukeforce wrote:

I never put it in gear, but when i do (such as parking on hills),rarely ever, I have a habit of putting it in reverse, therefor i'm using reverse light as NSS.And as for when its in the shop or something, Im adding a "safty relay switch" that will simply "disconnect", as you will, all the add-ons I'm installing (starter on Viper)and clutch bypass. It will be like turning on and off the starter options with a switch, located in the car. That way thers not possible way for someone to remote start it in gear on accident, in the hands of others.

Or maybe i'll simple have a switch to turn of the immoboliser bypas, that way you need the key to start it.

The immobilizer does not disengage the starter, it just disables the fuel system and perhaps the Ignition. The starter will crank though.

I just want to leave this as a disclaimer that this is a terrible descision and you should consult your insurance company and a good lawyer before doing this. If you ever tried to remote start the car and you had left it in gear and you hit someone and killed them you could do time and likely be raped. Ok so thats not the most likely situation, but it certainly is not impossible.

Think about it: 6 months down the line you are in a hurry and you leave it in gear. You accidentally start the car and your car lurches forward about 10 feet. Its bound to hit something.

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J Rilla

Owner/Installer

Yeah, but in six months down the road I wont be starting it by remote. I only want the starter for the early mornig days in the winter. I wont start it "for fun" or "for show" its for heating the car up without me having to go outside. Plus, after all this agony just to get it installed is going to be a HUGE reminder, that everytime, right before I exit the car, I will most definitly take and leave it OUT of gear.

Lukeforce, do yourself a favor and get the peripheral electronics neutral safety bypass. It will make your viper safe for your manual trans. Jrilla already posted a link to it, but here it is again. It is at the bottom of the page.https://peripheralelectronics.com/2002/security_bypasses.asp

Using that is the same as using a remote starter made for a manual and is the only safe way to do what you want to do. You have to leave your car running in neutral witht he e-brake on, get out, shut the doors, and then shut the car off with the remote. If you dont do that, the remote start wont work. Once again, that is the ONLY safe way to do what you want to do.

It comes with instructions.

I have the Lynx 2000 unit set up on my 2003 Eclipse and I think it works great. Like some of the above posts, the unit is setup like a turbo timer... whereas when I turn off the key, the car stays running until I get out and close the door (obviously you cant get out with it running while it is in gear) If you need to leave it in gear ie. on a hill, you can cancel the reserve mode manually by pressing the brake twice once the key is removed and the car shuts off. It will not start by remote then. Same deal if you open the door once it is into reserve mode... it will cancel and you have to start it by key.. press the brake (to take over from RS) and remove the key and get out. I can see the danger of an improperly installed unit on a manual trans, (I guess there is ALWAYS some risk) but with this type system it seems pretty safe.

Thats just my 2 cents...

Right on, yeah , i'm just waiting for the NSS to come in the mail. Hopefully by today or tommorrow, then i'll install this weekend. Thanks....

Sweet!!!!! I got the NSS in the mail today. Now I can finally install it!!!

I have the 791xv installed in my 2002 eclipse if you have any questions, please contact.......

I just got the 791 XV im going to finish installing it when i get the chance.. its been really busy at work! How do you guys like your 791 ?.. How is the rang on your remote? and where did you mount your antenna?

mount the antenna on the windshield behind the rearview mirror and upwards center to the headliner. Like I said, I own a 2002 eclipse. I have the 791xv installed professionally clean by myself of course. You don't need any parts that didn't come with the system other than a key that you will lose and of course the dei part 555u. That is for the immobilizer system. By the way, my car is a manual. don't believe the hype!@

What do you mean "Dont Believe the Hype"?

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J Rilla

Owner/Installer

tomberndt wrote:

I have the 791xv installed in my 2002 eclipse if you have any questions, please contact.......

So, your is manual too. Did you put in a NSS?

I finally hooked it all up. The only thing is, its not firing up. Everything goes normal, trys to start, and doesnt, trys again, doesnt. Trys a third time, then stops trying, but my remote shows "start" on it. Whats the deal... Anyone know....?

Sorry I haven't followed this post except the last couple, but from what you described, the problem seems to be a transponder issue. Did you use a keyless or a key required bypass module ?

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Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA

Sounds like the immobilizer system(555u) on the car is not reading the correct code from the key

I'm putting a remote start on my 01 ranger manual too! I think that don't believe the hype about installing a Rs on a manual tranny that it is really dangerous because it is not that bad just make sure you have good e-brake (tight) I tried mine today I started the truck then let out the clutch slowly not touching the gas pedal all the truck did was stall out it did not even go forward two (inches) think about it ,don't you have to lighty push on the gas pedal while letting out the clutch otherwhise it will stall?So how is a RS system go to make the car move the starter is not that powerful if the big V6 225hp engine can't move the truck 2 inches at idle

let me know if you got it workin

p71-cruiser

I used the J-PATS Key Transponder. Installed it at the garage, forgot my spare key, Used my reg. key to make sure its all right, got back home, put spare key in transponder, now it doesnt start up engine...

Try this p71-cruiser........ use the clutch bypass you have and activate it ( with the truck in gear ) and then with you in the truck, crank the starter for the duration that the remote starter would. Now do that 3 times in a row and see how far the truck goes because most systems out on the market are programmed for 3 tries before it stops. Just go and spend the extra 50 - 80 bucks and get a proper manual safe starter and be done with it.... end of story .

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Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA

p71, if you want to test your ebrake, try to remote start the vehicle with it in gear, that would be the only way to really see what will happen. My guess is that the car will never actually turn over, but instead just keep cranking until it stops trying, then it will try again, and then a third time.

I am amazed that so many people have enough confidence in themselves to simply say they wont ever leave it in gear, and that is safe.

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J Rilla

Owner/Installer

lukeforce, the positioning of the key in the module is very important and moving it around can offset the " sweet spot " of the key where the module reads the signal off the key. Try to reposition the key in the module and try to start again with the remote starter.

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Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA

SWEET!!!!!!. I went out, repositioned the key and-BAM!!! Now Its all good!! I want to say THANK YOU SO MUCH for all the help provided by everyone

No problemo. Keep warm with that newly installed remote starter and feel proud that you did it

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Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA

One last question, I want to make my sunroof vent, open,and close. Right now my windows do, but i want my sunroof to as well. My sunroof has a tilt, one-touch open, and close. I have a 2 windows up and down, module. What would be the way to hook this badboy up...?

jrilla wrote:

p71, if you want to test your ebrake, try to remote start the vehicle with it in gear, that would be the only way to really see what will happen. My guess is that the car will never actually turn over, but instead just keep cranking until it stops trying, then it will try again, and then a third time.

I am amazed that so many people have enough confidence in themselves to simply say they wont ever leave it in gear, and that is safe.

Think about this IF I ever leave the truck in gear the first time the RS tries to start in gear just hit the RS transmitter again and guess what the remote starter is off!

P71-CRUISER

Think about this IF I ever leave the truck in gear the first time the RS tries to start in gear just hit the RS transmitter again and guess what the remote starter is off!

P71-CRUISER

That's IF you are always around to see the truck start. P71-CRUISER................ try the scenario that jrilla and I posted and see how far the truck jumps on just one attempt of the remote starter. You would have to make sure that you are always parked with no one in front of you and that you are not in front of a shop or a building.

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Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA

lukeforce wrote:

One last question, I want to make my sunroof vent, open,and close. Right now my windows do, but i want my sunroof to as well. My sunroof has a tilt, one-touch open, and close. I have a 2 windows up and down, module. What would be the way to hook this badboy up...?

Anyone...????

Also, My girls got the Avital, Avistart 4100 She wants it to run for 24 mins upon starting. Is it the simple twist of the knob . If so , which way and how far? Thanks guys....

B I G P R O B L E M ! ! !

When my alarms sets off, it panics, and after the siren goes off the car starts. Its still stays armed, BUT IT STARTS AHHHHHHHH.

What do I do...?

You didn't hook up the auxiliary start wire did you ? Just wondering because some remote starter's have an AUX remote start wire that requires a (-) pulse and will start the vehicle if this wire gets a (-) pulse.

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Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA

Velocity Motors wrote:

Think about this IF I ever leave the truck in gear the first time the RS tries to start in gear just hit the RS transmitter again and guess what the remote starter is off!
P71-CRUISER
That's IF you are always around to see the truck start. P71-CRUISER................ try the scenario that jrilla and I posted and see how far the truck jumps on just one attempt of the remote starter. You would have to make sure that you are always parked with no one in front of you and that you are not in front of a shop or a building.

Didn't you just say "End of story" ?

The remote start range is not 2 miles so I think that I can see the truck if I ever leave it in gear !

Oh, is it really a "scenario" ok maybe I will try your little"scenario " (when I have nothin better to do, might be a long time though)

Also I think the mods should see this

I believe that caps are not allowed that's yelling, Right?