R/S Wiring Disaster

I've trying to hook up this AstroStart 803 R/S and it's becoming a nightmare. I have the Installation Manual for it, but only give you the programming. Here's how the wiring is for 97 GrandAm.

   Car----------------------R/S
Red #1--------------------#1 Power output
Red #2--------------------#2 Power output
Orange--------------------Accessory Output(Heat&A/C)
Yellow--------------------Starter Outout
Pink----------------------#1 Ingnition Output
White---------------------#2 Ingnition Output

-----555L Passlock Module-----
Red------------------Constant 12V(+)
Pink------------------Pink Ing. from wiring harness
Violet---------------?????
Blue/Black-----------(-) output on R/S when running
Black----------------to black reference wire on IPC
BLACK/ White----------(-) from wiring harness when in crank possition
Yellow---------------to yellow resistance wire (key side)
BLACK / YELLOW---------to yellow resistance wire (IPC side)

When hooked up that way, it doen't work but if I use BROWN as ACC. and passlock's violet wire hooked to PINK INGNITION, R/S works but theft sys light stays on and then when I take oven with the key, HEAT-A/C will kick off and rear window defrost comes on!!!

I'm at a lost now!!!!!

How do I get everything to work right?????

HELP!!!!

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CementBrain

Did I not give you the actual installation manual last week?

Regards

EVIL Teken . . .

The wiring diagram I got from here was for the DEI 555L & I got 4 different diagram for my car. The one for the car, I'm pretty sure is right is the last one I got.
Constant 12 volts ----- RED & RED                 IGNITION SWITCH HARNESS
Ignition 12 volts ------ PINK                             IGNITION SWITCH HARNESS
Starter                  YELLOW                            IGNITION SWITCH HARNESS
Dome Light                  L GRN/BLK & L BLUE (-)      AT CONVENIENCE CENTER MODULE *
Trunk Pin Switch      ORANGE / BLACK (-)      AT LIGHT IN TRUNK
Parking Lamp      BROWN (+)                            AT LIGHT SWITCH OR DRIVER KICK PANEL
Power Lock                  L BLUE                            EITHER KICK
Power Unlock      WHITE                            PANEL

* Convenience Center Module Located Behind Driver Dash To Left Of Steering Column. L GREEN/ BLACK (-) Covers Driver Door, L BLUE (-) Covers All Other Doors. Diode Isolation Needed, Cathode (Band) Side Of Diode Faces OEM Wires. Positive Pulse Door Lock

Accessories
Window Up                 D\ D BLUE P\ L BLUE D\ D GREEN P\ L GREEN @ MAIN SWITCH      
Window Down      F/ BROWN F/ TAN R/ PURPLE R/ PURPLE      
Ign Key Warn      L GREEN (-)                                STEERING COLUMN HARNESS
Trunk Release      BLACK (+)                               AT OEM KEYLESS MODULE IN TRUNK *
OEM Horn                 BLACK (-)                               STEERING COLUMN HARNESS               
Headlights                 YELLOW (+)                   AT HEADLIGHT SWITCH
OEM Alarm Arm      N/A                                          NO OEM ALARM PRESENT
OEM Alarm Disarm      N/A                                          IN SCHEMATICS

Reversal Rest At Ground Power Window Circuit Diagram. * BLACK (+) Wire For Trunk Release Is With OEM Keyless Only. Without OEM Keyless Trunk Release Is Cable Operated. Positive Pulse Trunk Release

Remote Start
Tach Signal                           WHITE                   AT POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE *
Ignition #2                           ORANGE                   IGNITION SWITCH HARNESS (HEAT/AC)
Ignition #3                           WHITE                   IGNITION SWITCH HARNESS **
Accessory                           BROWN                   IGNITION SWITCH HARNESS
Neutral Safety                      ORANGE / BLACK (-)       AT CONVENIENCE CENTER MODULE ***
Brake Light                           L BLUE (+)                  AT SWITCH ABOVE BRAKE PEDAL
Reverse Light              L GREEN (+)                  PASSENGER KICK PANEL
Rear Window Defrost          L BLUE (+)                  AT REAR WINDOW DEFOGGER SWITCH ****

* 3.1L Engine Tach Wire Is WHITE Or PURPLE / WHITE At Powertrain Control Module. Powertrain Control Module On Both Engines Located Behind Pass. Dash ** WHITE Wire Powers Instrument Cluster And Transmission Control Module. *** Convenience Center Module Located Behind Dr, Dash To Left Of Steer. Col. **** L BLUE (+) Wire Also Located At Convenience Center Module. G.M. Passlock


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CementBrain

The Violet wire has to go to Negative Output from your RS
As gus1 posted :
Use a relay. Trigger the purple wire on the 555L with a ground during start. This should make your light go away.
If your RS does NOT have a negative output for this then U will have to wire a Relay, Maybe like this:

SPDT Relay
Pin 85 = Pink---#1 Ingnition Output
Pin 86 & 87 = Ground
Pin 30 = Purple Wire from 555L

Unless you have Outboard Relays for your RS, then you could trigger Purple wire off of the Ignition Relay Ground

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MO

Don't Learn from Others Mistakes
You Might Be the One That Knows.

R/S Connectors

P2-CONNECTOR
1-----**************-------------------------------Red
2-----**************-------------------------------Red(both do not cut or tap)
3-----N/A
4-----Brake(+)-------------------------------------WHITE/ Green(Input)
5-----Glow Plug or Delayed Start(+ or -)-----------ORANGE / White(Input)
6-----Output(-) when running-----------------------Dark Green(Output)
7-----Antitheft(-)---------------------------------Orange(Output)
8-----Horn(-)--------------------------------------Light Green(Output)
9-----+12V-----------------------------------------RED / White(Output)1Amp
10----Tach input----------------------------------------------BLACK/ Green
11----Ground---------------------------------------Black
12----Hood Pin Input(+ or -)N.O. or N. C.-----------------------BLACK/ Red
13----Programmable (-) output #1-------------------Brown (to control relay #1)
14----Programmable (-) output #2-------------------WHITE/ Blue(to control relay #2)
15----Programmable (-) output #3-------------------White(to control relay #3)
16----Programmable (-) output #4-------------------Purple (to control relay #4)


P4-CONNECTOR

1-----Power Input--------------RED------+12V/30A (F1) supplies "Accessory-Yellow Wire" and the "Starter-Dark Blue Wire"
2-----Accessory Output---------YELLOW---Feeds vechicle accessory circuit(Heater/AC circuit)
3-----Parking light output-----GREEN----10A fuse(F3) used to feed parking lights
4-----Ignition Output----------ORANGE---Ignition circuit(MAIN)
5-----Starter Output-----------DARK BLUE--*Connects to starter circuit, output is controlled by ignition wire, also provides antitheft function.
6-----N/A
7-----Power Input--------------RED--------+12V/30A (F2) feeds Ignition-Orange Wire and Park Lights-Green wire

P5 CONNECTOR Bosch type relay
1-----Common-30
2-----NC-87A
3-----NO-87


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CementBrain

In the manual does it show negative output when starting?

Purple wire from 555L could be hooked up to :
6-----Output(-) when running-----------------------Dark Green(Output)
or
13----Programmable (-) output #1-------------------Brown (to control relay #1)
if it comes on while starting

What does this connector show in manual?
P5 CONNECTOR Bosch type relay
1-----Common-30
2-----NC-87A
3-----NO-87

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MO

Don't Learn from Others Mistakes
You Might Be the One That Knows.

Yes, #6---Output(-) when running--used to interface with OEM antitheft devices. Activated 1 sec. before the ignition circuit, and remains until 1 sec. after ignition is shut off.
I tried that, and the theft system light stays on. I have the Blue/Black from passlock hooked up there.   Blue/Black from passlock to (-)output when running on remote start.

As for the P5 CONNECTOR, that IS what the manual shows.

Pin #1---COMMON-30--Pin 30 of standard automotive Bosch type relay
Pin #2---NC-87A---------Pin 87A of standard automotive Bosch type relay
Pin #3---NO-87-----------Pin 87 of standard automotive Bosch type relay

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CementBrain

SPDT Relay
Pin 86 = Pink---#1 Ingnition Output
Pin 85 = 6-----Output(-) when running-----------------------Dark Green(Output)
Pin 87 = Ground
Pin 30 = Purple Wire from 555L


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MO

Don't Learn from Others Mistakes
You Might Be the One That Knows.

What about the Blue/Black from 555L which is already connected to 6---Output(-)when running----Dark Green(Output)??

Thanks for your time and patients MO

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CementBrain

The violet wire must see ground during CRANK or Start. Wiring it to the ign as mo12v suggest will not get rid of your light problem.

Relay:

pin 85- ground out when running.
pin 86- +ve start wire on rem. starter
pin 30- ground
pin 87- purple on 555L

Just use a standard Bosch relay.... they're cheap, they work. This way, the ground will be applied only during the remote start cycle, only during crank. Putting it on during the duration as per mo12v diagram will not cure the light staying on, as it must be timed correctly....

Gus


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Wherever I go, that is where I end up......

Orange--------------------Accessory Output(Heat&A/C)

When hooked up that way, it doen't work but if I use BROWN as ACC. and passlock's violet wire hooked to PINK INGNITION, R/S works but theft sys light stays on and then when I take oven with the key, HEAT-A/C will kick off and rear window defrost comes on!!!

Ok Gus, what about the rest of this??

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CementBrain

As I see your wiring, it should be :

Module                                    Car
RED---------------------------+12(F2) = RED Ign Switch
RED---------------------------+12(F1) = RED Ign Switch
DARK BLUE----------------Starter    = YELLOW Ign Switch
ORANGE--------------------Ignition1 = PINK Ign Switch
ORANGE-------------------Relay for Ignition 2 = ORANGE Ign Switch
ORANGE-------------------Relay for Ignition 3 = WHITE Ign Switch
YELLOW----------------------Accessory = BROWN Ign Switch

I am not clear what the functions of these are:
13----Programmable (-) output #1-------------------Brown (to control relay #1)
14----Programmable (-) output #2-------------------WHITE/ Blue(to control relay #2)
15----Programmable (-) output #3-------------------White(to control relay #3)
16----Programmable (-) output #4-------------------Purple (to control relay )

They appear to be extra outputs for adding Relays.  You need to read your Install Manual & see if these will configure your Ignition 2 & 3 or what they R for

I know there will be Installers who say the ORANGE wire does NOT need Power, but I have seen to many of these cars, like the Cavaliers, Sometimes U have to do what works.
The OLD way of PASS 1 is using 5 Relays & Resistor, before the 555L came on the market

As Gus1 pointed out: Timing is the key for Pass 1 to work.
Try:
SPDT Relay
Pin 85 = Yellow--------------------Starter Output
Pin 86 = 6-----Output(-) when running-----Dark Green(Output on RS Module)
Pin 87 = Ground
Pin 30 = Purple wire from 555L

Also note:
 Make sure U are on the Black "Bulb Test" wire in 5 way connector. ( when in RUN position car, wire will lose ground and show ground in the START position
and the Ribbon Wires have bee seen as White, Black, & Black
One wire ( White)is 12volt + when Ign. Switch is in the RUN position
Yellow & Black (or Black , Black) R Pass Lock wires

Keep after it !!

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MO

Don't Learn from Others Mistakes
You Might Be the One That Knows.

So I only have to hook in a relay for the ORANGE wire from car's Ignition because the R/S has a built in relay at P5.
That where I hooked in the WHITE Ignition wire for the #2 Ignition.

WHITE from Ign. to   Pin #1 (Common-30)
+12V Constant    to   Pin #3 (NO-87)

Then I'll try another relay for the purple wire of the passlock, like you say.

I'm sure on the Black "Bulb Test Wire"
Another thing is I have unpluged the R/S Module but left the 555L hooked up and the car work normal, so I am sure the passlock wire are correct or the car would not start with the yellow wire cut.

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CementBrain

Does your Manual say the P 5 comes on during Crank or what?

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MO

Don't Learn from Others Mistakes
You Might Be the One That Knows.

P5 Connector On R/S--- Default setting: Ignition

Programmable Relay Controlled by DIP Swicth Setting

*Pulse Before Start
*Pulse After Shutdown
*Ground While Running
*Park Lights
*Pulse After Startup
*Pulse on 2nd Unlock
**Ignition(default)
*Accessory
*Starter
*Trunk Release
*Pulse after Ignition Off(1 min. duration)
*Dome Light
*Utility #1
*Utility #2

I can pretty well program this relay for whatever I want.
I have it running the WHITE #2 Ignition on default Ignition.

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CementBrain

Sounds O.K.
As I said before, make sure of your wires on PASS Lock, also I have had to wire  the ORANGE wire on Ign Switch  to be powered as Ign. # 2 and WHITE as #3
Here is OMEGA Diagram:

Ignition #2	ORANGE	IGNITION SWITCH HARNESS (HEAT/AC)
Ignition #3	WHITE	IGNITION SWITCH HARNESS **

** WHITE Wire Powers Instrument Cluster And Transmission Control Module.

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MO

Don't Learn from Others Mistakes
You Might Be the One That Knows.

Okay... one more time.... here we go:

Wiring at the key for the Grand Am(and 99%of all other GM's built after 1902)
Red- +12V
Pink- Ignition #1
White- Ignition #2
Orange- Accessory #1 (Heater, A/C, ABS, etc.)
Brown- Accessory #2 (Radio, wipers.... does NOT need to be powered for remote start purposes unless it is a newer Cav. or Sunflower)

Now, for the Grand AM (and other PL1 cars)
Bulb Check- Small black in the same connector as the 2 12V wires and the brown accy
Brake- White in large flat connector in Driver's kick
Parking lights- Brown, same connector

The orange at the ign. switch is an accessory, don't power it as an ignition.
Just wire up the relay as I said to provide the ground during crank.
85- ground while running (same wire as the blue/black on 555L is connected to. Diode isolate with a 1N1004 diode, band away from the relay if you wish)
86- tie in with the starter wire
30- ground it
87- to the violet/PURPLE / -ve start input of the 555L

This is easier than trying to figure out what to program as a negative output on the starter itself.

Gus



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Wherever I go, that is where I end up......

OK OK Gus

I said I hook it up the way you show and it WORKS BUT when I take over with the key, the heater DOES NOT stay on, it shuts off and rear window defrost comes on.
I'm trying to figure out W H Y ????

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CementBrain

]<Wiring at the key for the Grand Am(and 99%of all other GM's built after 1902)
Red- +12V
Pink- Ignition #1
White- Ignition #2
Orange- Accessory #1 (Heater, A/C, ABS, etc.)
Brown- Accessory #2 (Radio, wipers.... does NOT need to be powered for remote start purposes unless it is a newer Cav. or Sunflower) >Sunfire?[

Not really..............

Cementbrain:
When U normally start the car with the key, does EVERYTHING work properly?

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MO

Don't Learn from Others Mistakes
You Might Be the One That Knows.

Yes.... Sunflower is our pet name for the Sunfire. Kinda like the Ford Exploder, Ikea= Kia, what can I say, we have fun at our workplace.

Yeah, I dunno about the whole heater not staying on after take over thing..... something sounds fishy here.
CementBrain.... are you getting your wiring at the key itself, or are you grabbing it all somewhere easier, like the driver's kick in that big harness? You should get it at the key.....

Gus


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Wherever I go, that is where I end up......

Cementbrain:
When U normally start the car with the key, does EVERYTHING work properly?
MO

Y E S

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CementBrain

Something is not wired corectly, or back wards.


Regards

EVIL Teken . . .

CementBrain.... are you getting your wiring at the key itself, or are you grabbing it all somewhere easier, like the driver's kick in that big harness? You should get it at the key.....

Gus

I'm getting the wires about 4" for the Ignition Plugs.

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CementBrain

That's why all the posts with wiring diagrams.
I'm trying to figure out what is wrong.

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CementBrain

https://www.designtech-intl.com/Content/techsupport/documents/section04/note119.pdf

I want you to really take the time to read this link, and then verify all the connections one more time.

I don't care how many times you have done it. I want you to take the wiring guide you have been supplied and go through each wire, and ensure the proper interface is exactly done, as it is stated to ensure a consistent RS.

The basics are not being followed here.

Regards

EVIL Teken . . .

Ok, will start over and let you know how it goes!!
Thanks to everyone.

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CementBrain

  Not only that,  Take your time.....You'll only get faster

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MO

Don't Learn from Others Mistakes
You Might Be the One That Knows.

You're 98% done in this installation. It is a wiring fault, somewhere, somehow. Just take your time, and follow each wire, and verify the source and the connection point.

Then, ensure all the voltagees are present, when the RS is initiated.

Trust me, when you realize what it is, you will fully understand the problem solviing process, of taking a step back, and really looking and understanding what is before you.

Regards

EVIL Teken . . .

I believe that the problem is the #3 Ignition.
I will have to switch ORANGE to Igniton #2 & WHITE to Ignition #3. I have to wait till tomorow, after work to try it.

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CementBrain

Keep after it..............Bet it is something simple...

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MO

Don't Learn from Others Mistakes
You Might Be the One That Knows.

OK OK By George I seem to have it all straighten out now.
Here's how it's wired and it's all working.

AstroStart Remote Starter Wiring on 97 GrandAm

AstroStart --------------------------CAR

P4 Connector

RED – (F1)Power Input-----------------------1st RED @ Ignition
YELLOW –Accessory Output----------------BROWN @ Ignition
GREEN –(F3)Parking light Output---------BROWN @ Light Switch
ORANGE –Ignition Output--------------------PINK @ Ignition(1st Ign.)
DARK BLUE –Starter Output----------------YELLOW @ Ignition
RED – (F2)Power Input----------------------2nd RED @ Ignition

P5 Connector Built in Standard Automotive Bosch type Relay
Pin#1=Common-30-----------------------------------WHITE @ Ignition(2nd Ign.)
Pin#2=NC-87A------------------------------------------Not Used
Pin#3=NO-87------------------------------------------Constant(fused 30A)12V(+)

Extra Relay
Pin 30 & 86---------------------------------------Constant(fused 30A)12V(+)
Pin 87---------------------------------------------ORANGE @ Ignition(3rd Ign.)
Pin 85----------------------------------To P2-15 on R/S(Programmable (-) output)-Programmed for Ignition

555L Passlock Wiring

RED----------------------------------Constant 12V(+)
PINK---------------------------------PINK @ Ignition Switch
VIOLET(Purple)------------------DARK BLUE Starter Output on R/S
BLUE/BLACK--------------------DARK GREEN on R/S (-) Output when running
BLACK-----------------------------BLACK Ref. Wire @ IPC
BLACK/ WHITE------------------BLACK - Bulb check wire @ Ignition Switch
YELLOW--------------------------YELLOW Resistance wire (Key Side)
BLACK / YELLOW----------------YELLOW Resistance wire (IPC Side)

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CementBrain

Was that FUN or NOT?

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MO

Don't Learn from Others Mistakes
You Might Be the One That Knows.

LOL . . .

Not really. Too many different wiring diagrams given on the net. You'll notice that I HAD to use all 3 Ignition wires. 1st-PINK: 2nd-WHITE: 3rd-ORANGE
Some people here where telling me that I had to use ORANGE as ACC. to get heat/ac to work, but that would not work. ORANGE IS Ignition, BROWN is ACC.

But in the end, IT'S WORKING!!!!!

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CementBrain

I also want to thank mo12v and Teken for there time and knowledge. THANK YOU both.

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CementBrain

CementBrain wrote:

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I also want to thank mo12v and Teken for there time and knowledge. THANK YOU both.

---

I think you need to pat yourself on the back as well. many shade tree mechs would have thrown in the towel long ago.

Persistence, patience, and thinking through the problem is what it is all about.

That is what you did, with some help.

I would only like to add that in the future, that you take more time to ask specific questions, prior to doing any work.

Planning, and preparation, is key in any endevor. At the end of the day, your sweat equity paid off.

Just return the favor to the other members of this site, and give your first hand experience and insight on the vehicle in question, if the same vehicle should come forth.

Regards

EVIL Teken . . .

Thanks Teken

I plan on helping anyone I can with whatever I can.

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CementBrain

CementBrain wrote:

---

Not really. Too many different wiring diagrams given on the net. You'll notice that I HAD to use all 3 Ignition wires. 1st-PINK: 2nd-WHITE: 3rd-ORANGE
Some people here where telling me that I had to use ORANGE as ACC. to get heat/ac to work, but that would not work. ORANGE IS Ignition, BROWN is ACC.

But in the end, IT'S WORKING!!!!!

---

I;m glad it's working for you, but orange is accesory, and brown doesn't need to be used. I did one yesterday, i've also installed starters in probably 50 of these cars.

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Shaughn Murley
Install Manager, Dealer Services
Visions Electronics
Red Deer, Alberta

Yes... I am still intrigued by this mystery orange ignition in this one GM product. We do a pile of GM product, and I have yet to see one with an orange Ign. at the key. Perhaps this car is a one off fluke???

Gus


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Wherever I go, that is where I end up......