only with key remote start
Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Security and Convenience
Forum Discription: Car Alarms, Keyless Entries, Remote Starters, Immobilizer Bypasses, Sensors, Door Locks, Window Modules, Heated Mirrors, Heated Seats, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=43888
Printed Date: May 15, 2024 at 6:44 PM
Topic: only with key remote start
Posted By: jeffchilcott
Subject: only with key remote start
Date Posted: November 27, 2004 at 11:53 AM
Alright Im making progress, when the key is in the ign, and I turn it, but not start, then trigger the remote start it works but it wont work without the key
2001 buick regal, 791 viper xv, PLDATA to bypass
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2009 0-1000 Trunk WR 154.0DB 2009 1001+ Trunk WR
2007 USACI World Champion
2007 World Record
2006 USACI Finals 2nd Place
Replies:
Posted By: D'Ecosse
Date Posted: November 27, 2004 at 12:12 PM
There are many possible problems that you might have done Need some more clues: Does the Ignition come on with the key? Is it just the starter that doesn't crank? Is the remote start Output wired up before or after the starter cut relay? My first guess would be that you have a problem with the starter cut relay wiring and that the remote start is wired after the cut relay; so the remote start is bypassing the starter cut & enabling the car to start. Check out your starter cut wiring.
Posted By: D'Ecosse
Date Posted: November 27, 2004 at 12:18 PM
I just noticed that you have another thread going - why did you start a new thread???  This is obviously related - you say in the other thread that you have not wired up the the starter cut relay???? Did you cut the wire in the harness? You need the relay in place to complete the circuit again - it shouldn't matter if the drive is wired up however as the starter connections should be across the normally closed poles - it only "opens" to disable it it alarm situation.
Posted By: extreemlylow
Date Posted: November 27, 2004 at 9:13 PM
It sounds like the 556u it wont start becouse of the chip that the key has
Posted By: badasscarguy7
Date Posted: November 27, 2004 at 10:29 PM
the 01 regal uses the fuel version of PK3 it requires no programing. use a dei 555g and don't forget to change the jumper to FUEL
Posted By: jeffchilcott
Date Posted: November 27, 2004 at 11:47 PM
ok let me better explain things. when you remote start the car, everything kicks on but the starter. The starter kill is not used. I am using a plxr bypass
You can turn the ign to run, and remote start the car, then take the keys out, and shut down via remote start, and the car will remote start on and off for roughly 10 mins after that. Then you have to repeat the process with the key.
The transponder is set to passlock 2 and evrything seams to confirm. I have been told to hook the violet wire to the violet wire at the odb port, but this is a plxr model and the paper work says to hook that to the starter wire.
The data wire is hooker in the steering colum to the yellow wire next to the black and white wires
The only thing not hooked is the keysense wire, I was told it didnt need to be used, and I also have no info on what wire the keysense wire is or how to find it with a DMM
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2009 0-1000 Trunk WR 154.0DB 2009 1001+ Trunk WR
2007 USACI World Champion
2007 World Record
2006 USACI Finals 2nd Place
Posted By: rknj01
Date Posted: November 28, 2004 at 2:27 AM
i would double check your ignition and accessory wires. if one is backwards it wont remote start
Posted By: jeffchilcott
Date Posted: November 28, 2004 at 10:22 AM
i dont think people are reading the whole message. It will remote start for a few minutes after I turn the key to run and remote start it, I can shut down and remove the key, and remote start on and off with the keys out for about 10 minutes then nothing
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2009 0-1000 Trunk WR 154.0DB 2009 1001+ Trunk WR
2007 USACI World Champion
2007 World Record
2006 USACI Finals 2nd Place
Posted By: Velocity Motors
Date Posted: November 28, 2004 at 11:18 AM
Jeff, make sure that the PLXR has these wires hooked up to the car: - BROWN -- ground when running wire off the RS unit. For testing, just ground this permanently while remote starting and then lift ground when inserting key and pressing brake.
- GREEN -- This goes to a light green wire in the ignition harness that will test (-) when the key is inserted into the key cylinder. There will only be 2 light green wires. Test both of them.
- BLUE -- This wires goes to the YELLOW Passlock II wire
- VIOLET/WHITE -- NOT USED
- VIOLET -- Goes to the motor side of the starter wire. In your case you did not use a starter disable relay so it goes to the starter wire off the car ( YELLOW )
- PINK/WHITE -- NA
- PINK - - NA
- ORANGE -- NA
- RED -- This HAS TO BE hooked up to the PINK wire on the Buick at the ignition harness
- BLACK -- This goes to chassis ground
Set the PLXR to two blinks at the beginning of the programming. Press the program button for 5 seconds until the light turns solid. Start the Buick and press the button one more time to learn the resistor code and the light will flash momentarily. Turn off car and your done. ------------- Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA
Posted By: jeffchilcott
Date Posted: November 28, 2004 at 11:43 AM
ok Jeff, I dont have the green wire hooked up, I was told the keysense wire would not be used I guess i will have to hook it up.. And I think we might have the wrong passlock wire even though it was very close to the black and white wire. He has had a few problems with the key locking in the cylinder..so I am thinking maybe its the wrong yellow wire?
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2009 0-1000 Trunk WR 154.0DB 2009 1001+ Trunk WR
2007 USACI World Champion
2007 World Record
2006 USACI Finals 2nd Place
Posted By: Velocity Motors
Date Posted: November 28, 2004 at 12:08 PM
The YELLOW wire will be along side the BLACK wire and the WHITE wire all in the same tubing from the key cylinder.
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Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA
Posted By: jeffchilcott
Date Posted: November 28, 2004 at 12:42 PM
Alright things are getting more serious. Last night I guess, the car completly shut down while he was driving doing 35mph....it just shut off. And the key keeps locking into the cylinder, if you jump start the car the key comes unlocked. WTF?????
As far as the yellow wire goes, there was no tubing withen the steering colum. I was also told I might find the wire in with all the main power wires..
Velocity have you worked on one of these cars yet? If so what bypass did you use? Do you think the PLXR is the problem. I am considering unhooking the PLXR and see if thats the root of the problem
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2009 0-1000 Trunk WR 154.0DB 2009 1001+ Trunk WR
2007 USACI World Champion
2007 World Record
2006 USACI Finals 2nd Place
Posted By: Velocity Motors
Date Posted: November 28, 2004 at 2:53 PM
Remove the PLXR ans use the PLDATA instead. This will solve some of your problems and give you less wires to trouble shoot as well.
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Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA
Posted By: jeffchilcott
Date Posted: November 29, 2004 at 8:26 PM
I was strongly considering this, what do you know about the charging system in these cars. I had charged the battery and started it orignally but the guy had had to jump start it 3 times to try and get the key out, well now he is having problems with either with the battery or alternator, I think its cause he (dont ask why) grounded the pos terminal on his battery and hooked the negs from one car to the other. But for now the plxr has been disconnected and going to try the pldata, now looks like I will have a PLXR laying around that I really dont like that unit after this experience
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2009 0-1000 Trunk WR 154.0DB 2009 1001+ Trunk WR
2007 USACI World Champion
2007 World Record
2006 USACI Finals 2nd Place
Posted By: extreme1
Date Posted: November 29, 2004 at 8:49 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again. 2001 Buick regal has VATS not PASSLOCK.
Simple relay and proper resitor to bypass.
Wires you want to tie into are PURPLE / white and WHITE/ black. They are in the main ign junction block, side by side.
VATS is a starter kill system, it cannot shut off the car, just prevent it from cranking.
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Shaughn Murley
Install Manager, Dealer Services
Visions Electronics
Red Deer, Alberta
Posted By: jeffchilcott
Date Posted: November 30, 2004 at 7:07 PM
everything I have checked for bypasses, list the 01 buick as passlock, I dont see how it is vats, the key has a chip but the chip has no resistance. Also in the manual for the vehicle it lists passlock, and the dealership says passlock.....just wondering how you know it is vats?
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2009 0-1000 Trunk WR 154.0DB 2009 1001+ Trunk WR
2007 USACI World Champion
2007 World Record
2006 USACI Finals 2nd Place
Posted By: jeffchilcott
Date Posted: December 05, 2004 at 9:46 PM
ok, I hooked up the key sense wire, and grounded out the ground when start wire, and I got the ding ding like when the key is in the ign and the door is open...but no start, so tried to hook up the ground when remote start to the blue wire of my relay pack, same thing...here is the real kicker....
when I went to start the car with the key with the key sense wire hooked up, it wouldnt start so I could finish programing the PLXR..I had to disconnect the PLXR from the wiring harness to even get the car to start with the key again. I am about to say forget it and get a PLDATA and hope that fixes all these issues, The friend I am working on this for is getting a little impatient, so any help would be great!
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2009 0-1000 Trunk WR 154.0DB 2009 1001+ Trunk WR
2007 USACI World Champion
2007 World Record
2006 USACI Finals 2nd Place
Posted By: dantemc
Date Posted: December 06, 2004 at 12:02 AM
hey jeff, i have seen this car listed as both vats and passlock. i dont believe its either. i believe its the pk3 system, fuel enable. im not sure what the PL equivalent is because i use dei, but the dei piece is a 555g. you said you put the key in the cylinder, and the car would start for like ten minutes, then you would have to repeat the process. what is happening, is that the system is a fuel cutoff, so after you remote start it, with the key, the system is filling with fuel. you can remote start it after because there is still fuel, and can basically keep starting it until the fuel runs out. then you open the fuel cutoff again, by using the key, and the whole process begins again. if you have tried doing this bypass and its not working properly, perhaps you are using the wrong wires because many of the factory wires share these colors. what i noticed, is that the correct wires, after you strip them are silver, so look for that, also make sure the key sense is hooked up, and you switch jumpers to " fuel" i believe this is causing massive problems, because the fuel is not being delivered, which explains the car just shutting down at 35mph, it basically ran out of gas. chevy ignitions are very sensitive, so if you start dropping the key, which is coomon with the pass lock especially, and you get locked out, just keep the key in the cylinder, with the ign. off for about 5 minutes, that should reset it. def. try the 555g, someone posted it earlier, but seem to have got ignored, he is def right. if the car remote starts fine with the key in the ign. your by pass system is wrong, no debating that, you know. hope this helps
Posted By: Velocity Motors
Date Posted: December 06, 2004 at 5:53 AM
The equivelent system for the 555g is the GMBP ( this also acts as the PLDATA but includes PKG4 & PKG5 vehicles ).
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Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA
Posted By: jeffchilcott
Date Posted: December 06, 2004 at 4:39 PM
alright everyone, what is going to be the best possible bypass to order for this? I need to get it ordered tonight!
As far as the fuel shut off im not sure about that, the car will remote start and run for as long as you want, but after about 15 to 20 minutes the car wont restart again..The 35 mph thing with the car shuting down was after driving nearly 100 miles with the car just fine!.
I am either going to order the correct pypass for this, I think so far the PLDATA is the best way to go, or say forget it and say forget the remote start and just use the alarm. I really want to RS to work though
Please let me know what is the ultimate of bypasses, and is easiest to work with..I am tired of working on this car!
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2009 0-1000 Trunk WR 154.0DB 2009 1001+ Trunk WR
2007 USACI World Champion
2007 World Record
2006 USACI Finals 2nd Place
Posted By: 94flamds10blazr
Date Posted: December 06, 2004 at 4:47 PM
Ive seen the same thing with a Saturn. Make sure the ignition wires , ground and constant to that bypass are 100%
Posted By: gus1
Date Posted: December 06, 2004 at 5:20 PM
The key has a visible chip.... yet the chip has no resistance? Is this what I am reading?
Gus
PS: If there's a visible chip.... it is VATS. If it is PK3, it will have PK3 stamped into the key shank. If it is PasslockII.... there wil be no visible indication on the key itself.
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Wherever I go, that is where I end up......
Posted By: jeffchilcott
Date Posted: December 06, 2004 at 7:19 PM
you read right, I have measured the key using 2 diffrent meters nothing. either way I should be able to use a self learning module. Jusrt trying to decide if the pldata is the best out there for my application
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2009 0-1000 Trunk WR 154.0DB 2009 1001+ Trunk WR
2007 USACI World Champion
2007 World Record
2006 USACI Finals 2nd Place
Posted By: 94flamds10blazr
Date Posted: December 06, 2004 at 7:21 PM
how did you try to read it (might be a dumb question but I gotta ask)
Posted By: jeffchilcott
Date Posted: December 06, 2004 at 7:35 PM
using a small DMM, and a bench meter
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2009 0-1000 Trunk WR 154.0DB 2009 1001+ Trunk WR
2007 USACI World Champion
2007 World Record
2006 USACI Finals 2nd Place
Posted By: gus1
Date Posted: December 07, 2004 at 12:05 PM
Interesting! In all the years of doing this, I have yet to get a VATS key that has no resistance whatsoever. That strikes me as highly wierd, actually. Out of all the imobilizer systems that GM uses, VATS is probably the most stable as far as temperature variance and issues goes. There are only 13 different values to boot. So, by saying you are reading nothing..... that means an open circuit or nothing as in 0 ohms? How does the other key measure? Same thing?
Seriously.... a relay and a resistor is the most stable way to do VATS. I haven't tried any of the Data style bypasses on any VATS vehicle... no sense wasting a $20 unit when you can do it with $5 woth of parts (more profit!).
Gus
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Wherever I go, that is where I end up......
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