did i get shafted?
Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Security and Convenience
Forum Discription: Car Alarms, Keyless Entries, Remote Starters, Immobilizer Bypasses, Sensors, Door Locks, Window Modules, Heated Mirrors, Heated Seats, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=44307
Printed Date: April 23, 2024 at 9:18 AM
Topic: did i get shafted?
Posted By: hightek
Subject: did i get shafted?
Date Posted: December 02, 2004 at 5:27 PM
so in late july/early august i got a viper 690xv, or whatever, installed on my car. it was under my assumption that it would come with a trunk and hood sensor to trigger the alarm if they are opened when the system is armed. well the day after i got my alarm i put the key in the runk while the system was armed and opened it. it did not set off the alarm. i realize this was a while ago but the reason i'm bringing it up now is because i went to have remote start installed today and asked them about the hood and trunk deal. the installer said that if there was an interior light for the trunk when it was opened it should trigger the alarm. i even took the guy out to my car and showed him what happened. he said i would probably need a pin connector for both the hood and the trunk. i thought that this should have been done with the original installation of the alarm. am i wrong here? or did i just get shafted? any help would be appreciated, thanks
Replies:
Posted By: carguy411
Date Posted: December 02, 2004 at 5:41 PM
i actually think that some places charge extra for doing this
i usually ask the custom what exactly tehy want and if they want it i usually just do it it only cost them maybe $5 for 2 pins, wire aand a diode if needed. and about another 10-20 min depending on how hard it it to run the wire and set the pin
always ask before something gets done. to them they did what they had to do to get itout and make the customer happy, somewhat
Posted By: auex
Date Posted: December 02, 2004 at 5:52 PM
Actually if the hood is not pinned then take it back and tell them to do it NOW. That is a safety issue with the remote start. As far as the trunk, it is an extra charge but shouldn't be an issue.
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Certified Security Specialist
Always check info with a digital multimeter.
I promise to be good.
Tell Darwin I sent you.
I've been sick lately, sorry I won't be on much.
Posted By: NowYaKnow
Date Posted: December 02, 2004 at 6:06 PM
As said these normally work on a request basis and an extra charge. Since the 690xv is just an alarm/keyless, then them not installing hood or trunk pins isn't a huge deal and you did not get "shafted" from that aspect. When they added the remote start, they should have installed a hood pin so the remote starter won't function with the hood open.
Mike
Posted By: mbsaudio
Date Posted: December 02, 2004 at 6:18 PM
Don't care about what those "other" guys do.. Anyone who comes to me for alarm gets a hood pin for for sure and a trunk pin if there is a light in the trunk, at no extra charge. If there is no light, then we discuss. Come on $35.00 for a $3.00 part is a bit ridiculous. Isn't the whole idea to protect the car.
Posted By: Ravendarat
Date Posted: December 02, 2004 at 8:57 PM
We charge 30 bucks for a trunk pin and will do the hood pin for free upon request.
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double-secret reverse-osmosis speaker-cone-induced high-level interference distortion, Its a killer
Posted By: jimmeezgolfvr6
Date Posted: December 02, 2004 at 9:19 PM
most shops will charge extra for connections to hood and trunk. not sure what your conversation with the installer(s) involved though. if you were under the belief that those triggers would be included then it's a simple matter of your word against theirs. however, for remote start installs, including a hood pin should be standard for safety reasons (in my opinion).
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all problems can be resolved with a hammer
Posted By: hightek
Date Posted: December 02, 2004 at 10:20 PM
alright, well so i got my remote start installed today. and yes they did install a hood pin. my next thing though is, i started my car before i left and it works, but my siren constantly chirps and my transmitter keychain thing always beeps saying that the shock sensor is going off. what's up with this? i'll probably just end up taking it to the shop tomorrow and ask them. one thing i love about talking to you guys, besides the amount of knowledge i gain, is that i can go in there and talk about stuff that some normal joe shmo probably couldn't.
Posted By: Ravendarat
Date Posted: December 02, 2004 at 11:46 PM
If the alarm is not turned off before the command start is used the vehicle running is going to set the shock sensor off. And most alarms dont have an input on them to disarm them so this must be done manually. This is a said reality when buying a RS and Alarm seperatly and one of the main advantages to Combo units.
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double-secret reverse-osmosis speaker-cone-induced high-level interference distortion, Its a killer
Posted By: hightek
Date Posted: December 03, 2004 at 1:12 AM
so you're saying that before i start my car i have to disarm, then start it? i'm guessing this will also lock the doors after it has been started. it also sounds like there is no way to go around this step. if i were to have gotten the 790xv or whatever, the combo RS and alarm, would i have had to worry about this?
Posted By: hightek
Date Posted: December 03, 2004 at 1:13 AM
so you're saying that before i start my car i have to disarm, then start it? i'm guessing this will also lock the doors after it has been started. it also sounds like there is no way to go around this step. if i were to have gotten the 790xv or whatever, the combo RS and alarm, would i have had to worry about this? would it even be worth it to visit the shop and ask them about it, or could this be something i could handle over the phone? sorry about the two posts, try to stop before it posted the first but no such luck.
Posted By: jimmeezgolfvr6
Date Posted: December 03, 2004 at 5:14 AM
this doesn't sound like a very knowledgeable shop if they let a job like that go out the door. ravendarat is right about the sad reality of separate alarm and remote starter units, but there is a really easy way to bypass the shock sensor during the remote start sequence. all it takes is one relay! if your shop can't figure it out they really should consider a different line of business.
virtually every remote start i've ever seen must have a wire that will have an output as soon as it's been asked to remote start via the remote. just use this output to trigger a relay that will open up the trigger wire (or the +12v or ground wire) of the shock sensor. it's really no different from wiring up a starter kill or anti-grind relay. good luck!
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all problems can be resolved with a hammer
Posted By: snguyen
Date Posted: December 03, 2004 at 8:46 AM
Remote start install should come with the hood pinned! What happen to safety??? that's the question that you need to ask the shop.
Posted By: Ravendarat
Date Posted: December 03, 2004 at 9:54 AM
If you read a little further up, his hood pin was included on the remote start, but he had an alarm installed earlier that did not. My question is why didnt the alarm go into full panic mode when the ignition turned on. As soon as the viper detected the ignition it should have went off. Unless of course these guys 5 wired the ignition wire off the brain of the alarm and just didnt do the shock sensor.
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double-secret reverse-osmosis speaker-cone-induced high-level interference distortion, Its a killer
Posted By: hightek
Date Posted: December 03, 2004 at 10:37 AM
i really have no clue, and since i have never installed an alarm i'm lost (and you really don't have to explain since i probably won't install alarms, i'll stick to audio  ) but anyways, as far as the shop knowledge, i'm really really dissapointed i went with this shop to install my alarm. after i got it installed i talked to people in some of my classes and they were like "you didn't go there did you?" turns out they have had problems with alarms installed there too. oh well i learned my lesson. if i were to go back and explain the deal to them, i would like to know what to say in terms of installation about bypassing the locks or something (that's what jimmeezgolfvr6 made is ound like) please correct me if i'm wrong. all i'm trying to do is get my money's worth and have my alarm/RS perform like it is supposed to, making the shop look stupid is just a perk. just to be clear with jimmeezgolfvr6, the shock sensor does not go off during the start up of the car. it is after the car has been started that it starts to go off. OK, update time, i went back to the shop today and told them the problem. it turns out the shock sensor was set so light that when the engine was running it would trigger it. now it works perfectly. i still think though that this will be the last purchase i make from them, not very knowledgable, VERY (almost too) relaxed staff, they lack professionalism (seeing how i'm almost 21 i like to be able to relate to people, but they do not have to go around talking in slang that i don't even use, maybe that's just me though). anyways, for now the problem is solved. as i always do, thank you guys for all your help. anyways, as always, i greatly appreciate all of your guys' help
Posted By: hagmanti
Date Posted: December 06, 2004 at 8:55 PM
Turning down the sensitivity of your shock sensor is not the answer to this problem. That means that the shock sensor is not doing its job at any time. (If you think about it, engine vibration is fairly significant vibration-- if somebody were hitting/bumping your car hard enough to make it move as much as the engine does at idle, you'd want to know!!!)
The shock sensor needs to be disabled during remote starts and set to a normal sensitivity at all other times. That's the only correct solution...
FWIW, I'd cut my losses w/ this shop, buy a good combo unit from a good shop, and have it installed from scratch, after ripping out the old ones.
Just my $.02,
Me
Posted By: hightek
Date Posted: December 07, 2004 at 12:11 AM
it makes sense now about the shock sensor.i'll go out tomorrow and beat on my car (not hard though) and try and set it off.
but you're also saying to just rip the one i have out now and buy a new combo? i agree that would be the best solution, but isn't it a little extreme? i don't know about you but i don't exactly have the $700 or whatever to spend on a new one.
Posted By: sroth140
Date Posted: December 07, 2004 at 9:12 AM
we dont install hood pins here based on the climate. they cause more problems than its worth. we do install the toggle switch for th RS so customers can manually turn it off. we write the location down in the owners manual and show them during demonstration. on an alarm/RS, we can install a merc switch for about $25. trunk triggers, switch or rear light, start off at $15.99 ------------- MECP certified installer
Posted By: jherrick
Date Posted: December 07, 2004 at 10:13 AM
sroth140 wrote:
we dont install hood pins here based on the climate. they cause more problems than its worth.
sroth, Would you please elaborate on this? Where are you in the US? I am in Maine, we get pretty cold weather. Is it cold, hot, dry, humid, or something else that causes the problems? I ask because I recently put in a RS on a friend's car, but have not wired the hood switch yet. Now I am wondering if maybe the toggle is the better way to go. Thanks. Jim
Posted By: Ravendarat
Date Posted: December 07, 2004 at 10:28 AM
I dont understand how climate affects a hood pin. It cant be cold, because right now its like minus 20 outside and It gets down to minus 40 to minus 45 and I dont have problems with my hood pins. The only problems I ever get with hood pins is when people slam their hoods down and snap the pins, generally happens by mechanics when they change the oil
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double-secret reverse-osmosis speaker-cone-induced high-level interference distortion, Its a killer
Posted By: jherrick
Date Posted: December 07, 2004 at 12:43 PM
Ravendarat wrote:
I dont understand how climate affects a hood pin.
That's why I asked. It is a steel pin. I wouldn't think cold or heat could affect it. I could understand LOTS OF humidity to an extent, just because it could cause arcing, but even then... I am not an installer by trade, and have not seen as much as a lot of people on this forum, so I ask because I am always open to reasonable advice. This one just came as a surprise to me.
Posted By: hagmanti
Date Posted: December 08, 2004 at 12:15 AM
Rust.
Rust.
And more rust.
For cheap pins (w/ cheap alarms), the pin rusting.
Even if you get a top of the line pin, once you drill a hole under the hood and scrape off that nice rust-inhibiting paint, rust starts eating away at the place where you've put the pin, so the ground gets iffy and then goes completely.
I've put pins in and had them rusting so bad they were falling apart 3 months later.
Having said that, I always put them in. However, I'm married to a lawyer, so I'm a bit litigation-shy.
Me
Posted By: kgerry
Date Posted: December 08, 2004 at 10:28 AM
3 months later???? where the heck are you?? Costa Rica?? i've been using pin switches for years and might see 1 every couple of years come back rusted to a point where it wasnt working ( 1 out of 100's ) i as a rule dont drill a hole but instead mount them on the proper available pin switch brackets, which makes for a cleaner, easier install ( i eat the 3 bucks the bracket costs ) and you dont drill through the above mentioned rust inhibiting paint.....
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Kevin Gerry
Certified Electronics Technician
MECP First Class Installer
Owner/Installer
Classic Car Audio
since 1979
Posted By: hagmanti
Date Posted: December 09, 2004 at 1:19 AM
I don't have the option of eating the cost of brackets-- not being in business for myself. Nor do I have the option of using decent pin switches-- see above comment.
Are you sure that yours aren't rusting out? After all, if they rust out, how many customers are actually going to notice?
Me
Posted By: hagmanti
Date Posted: December 09, 2004 at 1:21 AM
Let me hasten to say, I'm certainly not questioning my vastly more experienced peers. I'm only going by what I've actually seen, which suffers from the deficits noted above (working w/ inferior materials....)
Me
Posted By: hightek
Date Posted: December 09, 2004 at 3:38 PM
alright, as far as an update goes...i thought it had to do with the shock sensor, but evidently i was wrong. the remote start works fine now and this morning as i got out of the shower my alarm went off. it was the shock sensor, some little kid hit my car wit a football. but at least i know it works like it is supposed to  . thanks for all your input and help.
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